125 réponses à ce sujet

[cipher86]

No boss fight feels like such.  I actually find all boss encounters to be easier than random encounters and some general battles.

Like the four faced statue in the Deep Roads.  Uninspired and boring.

[andybuiadh]

Are you comparing them to WoW boss fights, perchance?

[Xultep]

I think the one you mentioned is one of the easier boss fights. And one of the most different too, hardly representative. Personally I thought it was a good change of pace than your typical foozle.



I think the boss fights are harder than Mass Effects and NWN's, and more on the same difficulty level as in the BG's.



I actually hate the opposite, easy enemies and boss fights that are too tough! I like the fact that normal combat actually require tactics, and a boss fight can range anywhere from a tank a spank to really having to manage your party and plan out your actions.

[Pheace]

um, do you know what a boss fight is? Because the 4 statue fight isn't.

[hOnOr]

They are learning. They added stages to the boss fights which is a nice addition.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Pheace wrote...

um, do you know what a boss fight is? Because the 4 statue fight isn't.

This.

[freche]

I have not yet finnished the game but the boss fights I have fought have all been easier then alot of random encounters just because boss fights are so easily controlled nothing really that can go wrong.

[cipher86]

4 statue fight is definitely a boss fight. Maybe a mini-boss, but still a boss.



Caridin/Branka = boss fight as well, and those are equally uninspired. It's a boss! Let's give it lots of HP and call it a day.

[WillieStyle]

Yeah the boss fights in this game are about the same level of complexity as BG2. The problem is that WoW has increased expectations amongst a large part of the fan base. But even WoW boss fights weren't always complex (molten bore anyone?). Maybe Bioware will get better at it with time. Or maybe, like a complete lack of class balance, tank and spanks with anti-melee knockbacks are the "vision" they have for the game.

[Xultep]

cipher86 wrote...

4 statue fight is definitely a boss fight. Maybe a mini-boss, but still a boss.

Caridin/Branka = boss fight as well, and those are equally uninspired. It's a boss! Let's give it lots of HP and call it a day.

OK, what about the brood mother, that wasn't a tank and spank?  And there are no mini-bosses, just elite mobs, and bosses, so those guys are right, the statue is not a boss fight.  Have you done other areas, because there are bosses that are not tank and spanks?

[Xultep]

WillieStyle wrote...

Or maybe, like a complete lack of class balance, tank and spanks with anti-melee knockbacks are the "vision" they have for the game.

I think the only reason you see this kind of CC on non-tankish, is because it's a SP.  If they do that for ToR, that would be a very rookie mistake!

[Stanley Woo]

cipher86 wrote...

No boss fight feels like such.  I actually find all boss encounters to be easier than random encounters and some general battles.

Like the four faced statue in the Deep Roads.  Uninspired and boring.

Please help us out by clarifying your criticisms.

what does a boss fight "feel" like? How do we make them equally difficult for everyone, and how can we measure that? What makes you the baseline measurement rather than someone who finds them too difficult?

And while the 4-faced statue is not a boss fight--most, I believe, would refer to that as a "gimmick fight"--how could we make it more inspired and less boring?

Random criticism is all well and good, but to help us make things better, you should also give us suggestions on how to improve ourselves. Which boss fights in which games are good examples of such to you? What makes them good? What makes them bad?

[Sloth Of Doom]

Normal fight - 3 hurlocks.



Boss Fight - Stan Woo trying to make coffee when someone put the filters on the top shelf.



See, in the boss fight there is a definite challenge, and the player has to use wit and skill to find a way to achieve a goal that appears at first to be out of their reach.





....bah who am I kidding, I just wanted to make a short joke.

[Majspuffen]

Sure, some trash are much harder than bosses... but if the trash was easy, wouldn't the game be boring? I want to be on my toes all the time. The bosses are challenging and that's good enough for me. Also, the bosses are often outnumbered, while trash has advantage in numbers. So it makes sense that some trash are harder than bosses, no?

I for one did not like the WoW-concept of boss-fighting. Where you needed 25 people for one man. It was condescending.

[xCirdanx]

You never have played the Baldurs Gate series or this game on highest difficult..i guess. And this is not a boss fight it´s one of the "traps". Might as well read/listen what npc´s say.

Edit: what the heck has this to do with world of warcraft? nothing. so you can leave that sorry excuse for an mmo out of this. i thought this is the DA forum, not to mention we are talking about a SPRPG and not an mmo.

Modifié par xCirdanx, 26 novembre 2009 - 09:13 .

[lawsie100]

spolier -  


the spider in the deep roads was the hardest enemy i fought in the game, took me around 5 attempts to clear that part, i was low on potions etc, but still hardest for me.

Modifié par lawsie100, 26 novembre 2009 - 09:15 .

[Lathaon]

Jarvia took me quite a few tries but other than that, I agree. That was on hard, with few potions.

Edit: okay, there were one or two others but they weren't difficult once I figured out how to deal with them properly.

Modifié par Lathaon, 26 novembre 2009 - 09:40 .

[WillieStyle]

Well I can't speak for the OP but for me, what makes boss fights fun is:

-Dynamic Decision Making: Being able to improve my chances by reacting to the environment/boss and making the right decision. The simplest form of this, familiar to many WoW players, is "don't stand in the fire." When I first fought the first boss in the game (don't want to add spoilers) I noticed that it/she/he would telegraph its/her/his moves with certain animations. Yet try as I might, I was never able to move my melee characters out of the way in time. It would be nice to have situations where you can move to dodge an attack like a charge, and doing so gives you a tactical advantage (for instance the boss might run into a wall and be stunned for some time). In DA:O, boss fights basically amount to, keep everyone but the tank out of melee range and heal the tank as you damage the boss.

-Team work. Boss fights should feel like I need my entire group to win, or at least that using all group members makes things easier. This is inexorably linked to class balance issues. Every boss fight in DA:O I've come across seems like it would be easier if you dropped all your melee (except possibly a tank) and brought more ranged. The few times you need someone to do something other than damage the boss (to counter grabs for instance) the task can be accomplished just as well - often times better - by a ranged character than a melee one. All additional melee seems to offer is more damage to heal thanks to point blank AoE effects, and less dps due to the never-ending knockdowns/knockbacks.

[konfeta]

Unique mechanics make boss fights interesting. Stacking HP, Damage, and cannon fodder doesn't. If the boss fight successfully changes the pace of the game, and doesn't make you go "Oh great, time to spend 5 minutes cycling heals and damage abilities," I would say it's success.

I feel there were some good boss fights and some bad fights. Humanoid boss fights with minions were on the crappy side of the spectrum, monster boss fights tended to be interesting. Without going heavily into spoilers, one of the dragon fights was essentially "tank and spank" (yawn), the other was actually exciting because the Dragon kept taking off and slamming down in different parts of the battlefield.

The spider boss fight was also fairly cool because the boss behaved differently from it's minisons, supporting them with its abilities rather than being a big fat brute.

In short, more fights with gimmicks. Boss fights should be carefully crafted separately from the rest of the game so they feel special and engaging, as opposed to a slugfest. Having obvious reasons for the party members moving around also improves on the fight, I feel.

Modifié par konfeta, 26 novembre 2009 - 09:21 .

[Wintermist]

I'm not really a fan of these so called boss fights. I'm not so sure killing a dragon without a mage would even be a very good thing to try in my opinion. I want realism more than weirdness.



Now a mage would be an excellent boss fight though.



An evil villain who is just a man, is in the end just that, a man. He can die with a blade just like anyone else. I don't feel eh should be any harder to kill than any other mob, and the satisfaction you get would be from finally getting to kill the bastard.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Spider Queen and Brood Mother are both interesting "boss fights" for me. Ditto, obviously, the High Dragon.



Sadly the Arch Demon wasn't all that epic since I'd already fought the high dragon by then, I almost wish the Arch Demon was the only "Dragon" you faced/saw since it would have made the battle more epic for the first run through like the High Dragon fight felt. Just me?



Also, the Ogre felt like a great boss fight, very well done.



All the rest...not so much (Branka, the elf quest boss, the desire demon(s) which weirdly were the boss of like 3 different quest/places? that kind of sucks in orginality when Shale, RedCliffe and Warden's Keep all had the same mob for a final "boss"). Actually why haven't more people complained about that I wonder? It seems pretty legit relatively to "mages are OP" 100 times.

[Loc'n'lol]

Witness Gaxkang !

[konfeta]

Now a mage would be an excellent boss fight though.

This game has a ton of these. And they all sucked because it was a race to stunlock/mana clash the mage before he Fireballed or Cone of Colded.

[Kimberly Shaw]

WillieStyle wrote...

Well I can't speak for the OP but for me, what makes boss fights fun is:
-Dynamic Decision Making: Being able to improve my chances by reacting to the environment/boss and making the right decision. The simplest form of this, familiar to many WoW players, is "don't stand in the fire." When I first fought the first boss in the game (don't want to add spoilers) I noticed that it/she/he would telegraph its/her/his moves with certain animations. Yet try as I might, I was never able to move my melee characters out of the way in time. It would be nice to have situations where you can move to dodge an attack like a charge, and doing so gives you a tactical advantage (for instance the boss might run into a wall and be stunned for some time). In DA:O, boss fights basically amount to, keep everyone but the tank out of melee range and heal the tank as you damage the boss.
-Team work. Boss fights should feel like I need my entire group to win, or at least that using all group members makes things easier. This is inexorably linked to class balance issues. Every boss fight in DA:O I've come across seems like it would be easier if you dropped all your melee (except possibly a tank) and brought more ranged. The few times you need someone to do something other than damage the boss (to counter grabs for instance) the task can be accomplished just as well - often times better - by a ranged character than a melee one. All additional melee seems to offer is more damage to heal thanks to point blank AoE effects, and less dps due to the never-ending knockdowns/knockbacks.

+1. Great post!

[Wintermist]

konfeta wrote...

Now a mage would be an excellent boss fight though.

This game has a ton of these. And they all sucked because it was a race to stunlock/mana clash the mage before he Fireballed or Cone of Colded.

Yeah but now you're stuck on how is, and not what could be. Imagine a mage done properly...