68 réponses à ce sujet

[LynxAQ]

I really love this game and massive thanks to the game creators for making this amazing game, BUT I do feel you guys took the copout choice by making mages cast everything. I feel mages should just be that... the spellcasters of doom and gloom we all know and love to hate, and that there should have been clerics in this game with the buff and heal spells.

I cant deny that I am a little disappointed at there only being 3 classes and the specialisation barely make a difference to the core class.

[Suron]

there are. I made one.



Wynne + Spirit Healer (comes with it of course) + Arcane Warrior + first Arcane Warrior Talent + Plate Armor (I used Warden's Armor for the - spell/ability costs) + Mace + Shield = Badass Cleric



though I'm sure there's a better armor to couple with it to keep spell cost down (and I don't activate the might stuff for AW) This essentially is a DA worlds version of a cleric...



otherwise Cleric/divine spellcasters have no place in DA world/lore...there is no "divine" magic...and if there was...technically how would the every day man know the difference between one and a mage..they'd be hated/feared/controlled also

[hOnOr]

The beauty of the current system is you can play the game any way you want. If you want to make an all heal mage, you can; if you want a dps mage you can make that too; you can also mix and match. Just because other people are playing the game in a certain way, does not mean you need to. You could make a decent cleric by creating a AW/SH mage, wearing plate and wielding a mace -- boom! Cleric!

[TheNecroFiend]

Yup, the current spell selections and specializations make it possible to build various classes. As was mentioned Clerics are in the game if you build your toon with that in mind, same with Druids.

[BGFU888]

I wouldn't mind there being clerics from a lore point of view myself. I am aware that you can make a mage into the equivalent of a cleric but personally I've always been a big fan of separate and dedicated healing classes. I think this creates problems though since all magic is supposed to be on some level subversive. I suppose the writers could have chosen to create a different type of magic for clerics though.

[Looy]

I'd prefer to have a dedicated healing class, you really only need heal and group heal... maybe revive to become a decent healer. Basically morrigan can get those two spells and still shoot cold and melt faces as well, while wynne can pick up damage and CC spells. Mages are like the swiss army class.

[Wintermist]

I'm happy there aren't clerics. A cleric granted powers from gods and all that wouldn't fit too well into the lore. A mage, however, is a very reasonable healer. You can however, consider this:



Make a mage, get spirit healer for him or her, and consider it your own cleric.

[telephasic]

I think it's good there aren't clerics. Remember, a big difference between Thedas and a D&D world is no one really knows if there are gods or not. Sure, there are demons and spirits, but for all we know, they are alien transdimensional beings, there is no god, and nothing but oblivion when someone dies.

[T1l]

telephasic wrote...

I think it's good there aren't clerics. Remember, a big difference between Thedas and a D&D world is no one really knows if there are gods or not. Sure, there are demons and spirits, but for all we know, they are alien transdimensional beings, there is no god, and nothing but oblivion when someone dies.

We have pretty solid clarification that Andraste was infact a very real person at one point or another, and that her remains can bring a person back from the brink of death. Also; when you're in the fade you can actually see the Black City at all times in the distance - therefore, one could assume that it is also a "real" place.

If the Black City exists then The Maker also exists.

I would say god/gods are a very real part of the Dragon Age setting.

[back pain]

T1l wrote...
If the Black City exists then The Maker also exists.

Nope, that only means the black city exists, for all we know it could be a development studio owned by Bioware, run by "evil" Chris Priestly, and staffed with demon programmers.

Back on topic:

Religion in Dragon Age seeks to mirror religion in real life (notice the similarities between the chantry and the medieval catholic church). Just like in real life there is no tangible way for anyone to know which God or Gods are real (or if any of them are), and what, if any, effects they can have on the natural world.

Edit: added missing words
Edit2: deleted repeated words (am I going blind or somthing)

Modifié par back pain, 27 novembre 2009 - 03:21 .

[gsmithcat]

I totally though Leliana was a cleric when I first met her (with her holy looking chantry robes). I gave her a mace and some armor. Then I figured out that she was good with a bow.

[kokocrush]

You could be a Chanter and everything you say is from the Chant. Romance possibility?

[Nimander]

I'm glad there aren't clerics. D&D isn't the only source of inspiration, after all. There's a lot of fantasy where wizards heal perfectly fine, thank you.



If you want to make a healbot type character, it's totally possible. That's good enough for me without making it a special class or anything like that.

[Taleroth]

T1l wrote...

If the Black City exists then The Maker also exists.

I'm going to start a religion that claims the great God Tale lives on the moon.

Since the moon exists, the great God Tale also exists.

[Kyrellic]

Just because the Black City exists, doesn't mean that there ever was a Golden City, nor that either was the seat of "the Maker".

Cthulhu tells me "nyaharlagth"...So that means something.

[velmyn]

One of Wynne's favorite gifts is a detailed study of whether or not Andraste was a prophet or just a powerful mage.



I wouldn't be surprised if what one of the demons say, 'the maker doesn't exist, only demons,' is true in some form. Otherwise it may entirely be possible that the 'Maker turned his back on us' theory is true, and that the Maker himself has turned into a malicious spirit. Better yet, maybe the Magisters of Tevinter not only destroyed heaven, but destroyed/crippled the Maker as well.



Interesting possibilities. The only thing I don't want, again, is to have such possibilities left unexplored.



As to the original question, if you start building towards buffs and the spirit healer line, you will more or less ends up with a traditional 'priest' class that can't do much in the way of damage.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Honestly, in what game were clerics truly a dedicated healing class? they're usually an equal mix of healing, utility and damage. And often stupidly overpowered.

[T1l]

We're talking about a setting in which ghosts are a reality. We're talking about a setting where demons are a reality. We're talking about a setting in which magic is a reality. We're talking about a setting in which one can travel to a fade realm, which is synonymous with being dead and/or sleeping. The Fade is where souls/spirits go when they're not physically manifested. The Fade is also home to it's own natives, of which there is a hierarchy.



Considering most, if not all of you, have actually played the game; can you honestly say that The Maker is that far fetched?



Old Gods exist. Flemmeth exists. Andraste exists. The Maker does not?



Really?

[velmyn]

T1l wrote...

We're talking about a setting in which ghosts are a reality. We're talking about a setting where demons are a reality. We're talking about a setting in which magic is a reality. We're talking about a setting in which one can travel to a fade realm, which is synonymous with being dead and/or sleeping. The Fade is where souls/spirits go when they're not physically manifested. The Fade is also home to it's own natives, of which there is a hierarchy.

Considering most, if not all of you, have actually played the game; can you honestly say that The Maker is that far fetched?

Old Gods exist. Flemmeth exists. Andraste exists. The Maker does not?

Really?

Not far fetched, just the Chantry's version is likely to be wrong. (close maybe, but still wrong)

The Chantry doesn't support magic, so none of its members can consciously enter the Fade and observe what's going on. You'll notice that even Wynne, a mage who supports the idea of the Circle, doesn't entirely buy into the Chantry's version of what went on with the Maker.

Nothing suggests that the Chantry actually has proof of any of its claims.

Modifié par velmyn, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:45 .

[amrose2]

Regardless of lore, I am already forced into having a tank, rogue and a mage, I don't want to be forced into having a healer as well. More group freedom is better than classic 'triad' roles imo

[Haplose]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Honestly, in what game were clerics truly a dedicated healing class? they're usually an equal mix of healing, utility and damage. And often stupidly overpowered.

In MMOs. Fortunately this is not one of them.

[fkirenicus]

I really do wonder what class the Chantry sisters are, if not "semi-clerics" (Spirit Healers or some such)? Are they simply Templars? I can't say I've got that impression, but....
So, yes, unless the Chantry sisters themselves are Mages/Spirit Healers (which I doubt) there really should be a Cleric class option - as it seems to me that such a class actually exists for NPCs after all - albeit "secretly".

[Ultrazennn]

LynxAQ wrote...

I really love this game and massive thanks to the game creators for making this amazing game, BUT I do feel you guys took the copout choice by making mages cast everything. I feel mages should just be that... the spellcasters of doom and gloom we all know and love to hate, and that there should have been clerics in this game with the buff and heal spells.

I cant deny that I am a little disappointed at there only being 3 classes and the specialisation barely make a difference to the core class.

I dissagree 100% that the specializations barely make a difference.  The difference between a spirit healer/shape shifter vs arcane warrior/blood mage, couldn't be any more pronounced.  It's 2 completely different playstyles, and in any other game would be at *least* 2 other classes.

I personally find the differing playstyles given spec choices to be quite important, especially in mage spec.

[Ultrazennn]

amrose2 wrote...

Regardless of lore, I am already forced into having a tank, rogue and a mage, I don't want to be forced into having a healer as well. More group freedom is better than classic 'triad' roles imo

This is also wrong.  You aren't forced into any class.  You can play and finish the game on nightmare difficulty with a wide variety of parties.  There are ton of options, specs, and tactic that you can use in this game depending on how you build your party.

On a sad note, they *did* balance rogues, by making just about everything you ever get from a chest suck lol.  That may not be the best way to encourage class choices, but it's the truth.  A rogue is 100% not needed to complete the game on any difficulty, niether is a mage.

For example, a no tank party.  1 rogue goes in, sets traps in max stealth, moves out of range.  3 mages blast the area with CC and AOE, rogue stands back with 1/2 archery spec and/or picks off straglers trying to gank the mages.  You can finish the game nightmare like this, I've done it.

All melee party.  Easily viable in nightmare besides all the whining on these forums.  You just have to build and spec the party correctly for it.

Are some specs easier?  Sure, but there are a *lot* of ways to skin the cat in this game if you pay attention.

Your group freedom is limited by your imagination, and your preconceptions about what the classes are and how they funciton.

[velmyn]

fkirenicus wrote...

I really do wonder what class the Chantry sisters are, if not "semi-clerics" (Spirit Healers or some such)? Are they simply Templars? I can't say I've got that impression, but....
So, yes, unless the Chantry sisters themselves are Mages/Spirit Healers (which I doubt) there really should be a Cleric class option - as it seems to me that such a class actually exists for NPCs after all - albeit "secretly".

If I'm not mistaken, most of the Chantry members you fight, or fight with, are rogues. (the ones in the fade, Jowan's ladyfriend from the mage origin etc)

No, the Chantry sisters are not magi. It would go against everything the Chantry stands for to have members of the clergy use magic.