68 réponses à ce sujet

[corb01772]

I don't think that it's a question of whether or not the Maker and Andraste exist. There is enough lore in the codexes to show that yes, they do exist.



The reason there is no clerics is because clerics gain their magical power through faith in their god. In the DA:O world, there is no evidence of any magical power being granted from the Maker, or Andraste, or any other god.



The battle to save Redcliffe supports this: When you are asked by the Redcliffe knights to procure a blessing from the Chantry, the priestess admits that there is no tangible benefit the knights can receive by being blessed. Similarly, whenever the player character is blessed by a Chantry priestess, you don't see any temporary buffs like you would typically get from a blessing in another RPG.

[truppp]

I for one am glad there are no clerics in the AD&D sense. The same way that there is no "holy" kind of magic.



It's supposed to be a dark fantasy setting, in which all magic is considered evil or at least dangerous. Spellcasting priests running around ressing people would ruin that.

[Mork_ba]

Druid = shapeshifter(+possibly spirit healer) with earth chain, Cleric = Arcane Warrior +Spirit Healer, Warlock= Blood Mage+Entropy, Evoker= Primalist, Actually there's plenty of classes to go around...



Paladin= templar or templar/commander, etc... You build your own class according to what you wanna play

[Reynen Starfyre]

Cleric class has now been released:

Check out the following two sites:

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=374

http://www.damods.co...php?topic=953.0

Enjoy

Modifié par Reynen Starfyre, 20 décembre 2009 - 07:21 .

[skotie]

I really don't see why a cleric would have been a bad idea for this game. Obviously if there is magic the chantry approves of (or at least doesn't outlaw) its healing magic. I could see how clerics could also aid as healers in wars as well as watching over mages along with the Templars, certainly clerics could aid the Templars in hunting down mages as well.

That said I personally think there should have been a true ranged weapon class, not just leave it as something for warriors or rogues to master.

Modifié par skotie, 21 décembre 2009 - 03:50 .

[grimeyhippy]

I like how the magic is set up, it's more like how occultist in the real world view majik, magic is magic there are just those who decide to dabble in black (blood) magic

[blazin130791]

alot of people say they want more classes, talents, specilisations, etc. variety is the spice of life, and after all, the more variations you can have of your party and cahracter the more replayable the game is.

[termokanden]

I definitely wouldn't mind more classes. But I like how mages are healers and damage dealers at the same time. As an old MMO raid healer, I can only say that it's extremely refreshing.

[Ambaryerno]

I say good riddance to the D&D Cleric and its reliance on the flawed and outmoded belief that priests only ever wielded clubs and maces.

[blazin130791]

i think maybe they should have made the classes Ranger, Mage, Priest, Rogue and Warrior. Then given a wider choice of specilizations with more RP and gameplay depth.

[skotie]

Ambaryerno wrote...

I say good riddance to the D&D Cleric and its reliance on the flawed and outmoded belief that priests only ever wielded clubs and maces.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing priests in chainmail using swords and sheilds even, I just think their main spell set should be healing magic and benefical group/single target spell effects.

That's just what I think of when I see the word priest for an rpg, a character devoted to their beliefs that specializes in healing magic for the benefit of others.

[Taleroth]

blazin130791 wrote...

i think maybe they should have made the classes Ranger, Mage, Priest, Rogue and Warrior. Then given a wider choice of specilizations with more RP and gameplay depth.

I can see it now.  Standing around, reciting from a book, and asking for donations.

Totally adventuring material.

Modifié par Taleroth, 21 décembre 2009 - 06:29 .

[Koralis]

velmyn wrote...

Not far fetched, just the Chantry's version is likely to be wrong. (close maybe, but still wrong)

The Chantry doesn't support magic, so none of its members can consciously enter the Fade and observe what's going on. You'll notice that even Wynne, a mage who supports the idea of the Circle, doesn't entirely buy into the Chantry's version of what went on with the Maker.

Nothing suggests that the Chantry actually has proof of any of its claims.

I suspect that The Maker is one of the pantheon of Old Gods (also mirrored in the elven religion) who imprisoned the others beneath the earth to become the sole god.   The Tevinter Mages discovered this and tried to free the other gods and had a confrontation with The Maker.  The result was the Maker imprisoned (or mortally weakened) himself and the mages turned into Darkspawn.

These Darkspawn-Mages continued their quest and seek out the Old Gods to free them, as they can feel the call and direction of them... much like Lilliana feels that the Maker is directing her to help you.

Modifié par Koralis, 21 décembre 2009 - 12:03 .

[borelocin]

Wintermist wrote...

I'm happy there aren't clerics. A cleric granted powers from gods and all that wouldn't fit too well into the lore. A mage, however, is a very reasonable healer. You can however, consider this:

Make a mage, get spirit healer for him or her, and consider it your own cleric.

What he said

"Divine" magic in the generic fantasy sense doesn't fit the world.

The Mother at Redcliffe who says that she can't provide holy protection because the Maker is no longer with us pretty much sets the tone.

I find it refreshing to have a dominant monotheistic religion whose priests can't perform miracles. Of course they hedged their bets with the Urn ... or did they ?

[PhroXenGold]

I love how for once, mages do the healing. Always seems so stupid in other RPG systems where mages have to power to wipe out cities, but can't heal a papercut



If there were cleric in DA, then I would say their abilities should be non-magical in nature, and focused around inspiring their allies. Except we already have specializations which do that - bards and champions. Indeed, a Templar/Champion is pretty much what you'd expect forma "Battle Priest of the Chantry" (as it were) rather than some spellcaster.

[sinosleep]

The creation line, arcane warrior, spirit healer build in this thread sounds like I could be fun. I have yet to play an arcane warrior so this sounds like an interesting and more importantly different build than what most people have been suggesting so I might go ahead and give this a shot my next go round.

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:22 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Regarding the whole Chantry thing, as others have said, history is created by the winners of wars (or something like that).



As others have said, it is fairly easy to put a spin on the various talents/spells available.



A Cleric is fairly easy to do, granted won't have all the D&D style skills, but still plenty of options for both good and evil aligned clerics (as well as neutral too of course)

[sinosleep]

Are turning undead and auras the major things it's missing? I mean, you could get the heals, buffs, sword/mace and shield, and lightning in this game. I guess cleansing aura and miasma would count as auras too right?

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:44 .

[TheRealIncarnal]

borelocin wrote...
"Divine" magic in the generic fantasy sense doesn't fit the world.

The Mother at Redcliffe who says that she can't provide holy protection because the Maker is no longer with us pretty much sets the tone.

I find it refreshing to have a dominant monotheistic religion whose priests can't perform miracles. Of course they hedged their bets with the Urn ... or did they ?

Yes, if there was definitely divine magic in the game then it would kind of ruin the feeling of the religion in the game.
The Urn seems pretty definite, but if you listen to Sten, Morrigan, or Oghren they begin to punch all sorts of holes into the scene that change it from divine to powerful magic and lyrium effects. So, it's far from definitive proof of the Maker, and possibly backs the theory that Andraste was a very powerful mage.

I love the ambiguity of religion in the game. I feel that I can connect much better with a world like mine where the religion doesn't actually have a god actively lording and granting miracles.

[biomag]

I can't understand why people are so fixed about the class-idea and the d&d system. Why are classes the most important part of rpgs? Can't you play a priest if the class isn't called that way? classes are the worst part of old rpg-systems. They are just limitations to your imagination.



I will never understand why a warrior can't learn to pick lockets or use dirty tricks in a fight? D&D finally started to disolve this bs by allowing class combinations, but they still have the this "good/evil/neutral, chaotic/neutral/lawful"-bs. Why are such things nessessary for RPG? They just limit the development of a character and are just introduced to prevent exploitations by players... class balance... wohoo, most important to enjoy a single player game...



I am extremely happy that DA has reduced the focus on classes. They are still there and force you to make one-dimensional character building choices, but at least you spend more time playing your character according to the STORY.



RPGs are about stories and characters, not about classes and their abilities. DA gives you freedom to do what you want, not a lot of it, but enough to make extravagant builds. Enjoy it and don't whine because the build doesn't have a "name"...

[Nathair Nimheil]

I don't think that it's a question of whether or not the Maker and Andraste exist. There is enough lore in the codexes to show that yes, they do exist.

Not really. It's pretty clear that Andraste probably existed (although the details of her life, as Alistair notes at one point, are very much open to question.) However there is no actual evidence given for the existence of a maker (to say nothing of The Maker).

There's a lot of chantry dogma about the Maker but not even all the humans believe it. Morrigan is an atheist and even Wynne says that chantry teachings might be allegory. The Dalish have their own gods with just as much (or as little) evidence to support them while the Dwarves have no gods at all.

I guess that's why, just like in our world, there are plenty of clerics but they don't have any magical powers or special abilities.

[Klystron]

With a maximum party size of 4, needing a separate cleric would be quite a burden.  That said, the SH+AW combination can't happen until level 14, plus a few levels to get the 2nd spec abilities.  Mages can heal from day 1, of course, but will be squishy for quite a while. 

What I'd like to see is one of the warrior specs having some Paladin-like healing abilities, so if you want a plate-wearing healer badly enough to use up a spec point you could do it from level 7.  Do Templars really exist for the sole purpose of killing mages?  If so, The Maker is a vengeful One indeed! 

[Dark83]

Much like in the real world, there are a ton of clerics. Much like in the real world, they don't call down pillars of flame on people who disagree with them - although that would make religious debates more interesting.

[Suron]

Taleroth wrote...

T1l wrote...

If the Black City exists then The Maker also exists.

I'm going to start a religion that claims the great God Tale lives on the moon.

Since the moon exists, the great God Tale also exists.

beat me to it.  But grats for pointing out what a stupid statement this was.

Rainbows also exist..so I guess by your (dumb) logic that leprechans with pots of gold also MUST exist right???

yah..that's what I thought.

[blazin130791]

the fade is to do with the mind, maybe everyone sees what they expect to or something like that.