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[Kaiyen Sciratim]

Paraphrasing Shepard: Fighting and surviving with these people by your side...it forms bonds that you can't really explain.

TL;DR - The endings would have been fine if Shepard was the only person you really cared about in the game. But because we have made friends with all these other characters that Bioware has prized itself on creating, leaving them like that just feels wrong.


So here I will be referencing a game called Deus Ex, which has a recent sequel that has brought it more to the limelight. It's a fantastic sci-fi game that, like all great science fiction, discusses the ramifications of technology and its progress. And similar to many sci-fi themes, the idea of people with advanced technology controlling or affecting others is one of the main themes that plays out in the course of the game.

Most importantly, it is a game that allows you to have a lot of choice to play as you wish. And the end is where your choice gets put to the strongest test.

[spoilers on Deus Ex starting here] JC Denton, your avatar, gets to decide the fate of the world after he finds a location that houses an AI capable of controlling all of the world's advanced and integrated communications systems.

1) He can choose to destroy this AI and all of the world's communications technology.
2) He can choose to use the AI to control the world via a shadowy organization.
3) He can choose to unite with this AI and become a benevolent dictator with infinite knowledge and reason.

Now, tell me - does this not seem very similar to the three choices that you have at the end of Mass Effect 3? All have far-reaching ramifications and play out incredibly differently as a result. This is one of the reasons Deus Ex has been held up as an incredible example of video game narrative.

So, why, then does it not work for Mass Effect 3? If it seems to be such a powerful way to end one sci-fi game, why not end a series of games in a similar fashion but with a much greater magnitude?

I believe there are many reasons that one can give to answer these questions. The greatest one of all, however, is the core reason why I think most people feel unsatisfied with Bioware's endings. The series of Mass Effect is not just about one man and his world/galaxy changing quest; Mass Effect has never been just about Shepard's choices in relation to the galaxy. Mass Effect, above all, has been about the characters in the story....all of them. The galaxy and its story are the backdrop in front of which all of these relationships that Shepard forms play out.

And this is the crux of why the endings to Mass Effect are unsatisfactory. These people you have gotten to know and love, the people you have fought with and died for and had to reload save files--these people ultimately have no role in the ending. You see none of their story; you only see the ending to Shepard's story. Each of the 3 endings plays out in almost the exact same fashion - the citadel emits colored energy, the reapers stop attacking, relays explode, the galaxy gets turned a single color, the Normandy is overtaken, leaves part, Normandy's airlock opens, some people walk out.

You don't know what happened to Anderson. You don't know what happened to Hackett and the entire Alliance fleet. You don't know what happened to the Turian fleet, or the Asari fleet, or the Salarian fleet. You don't know what happened to Wrex/Wreav and all the Krogans. You don't know what happened to the Quarians, stranded in the Sol system. You don't know what happened the Geth, should they survive. And, most importantly, you don't know what happens to your companions aboard your ship.

Mass Effect was never about one man's quest against an incredible threat. It was about a group of people that came to represent the entire galaxy and their quest against an incredible threat. And when those people and all they represented are boiled down to a total of 5 seconds of walking out of an airlock into a jungle, I believe much has been lost.

Of course, there could be an epilogue released. Or an expansion. Or a DLC. Or something. But, as a standalone work, Mass Effect 3 seems to have lost its denouement in the clutter of marketing, multiplayer, and manumission.

Modifié par Kaiyen Sciratim, 10 mars 2012 - 05:18 .

[KillerJudgement]

http://i2.kym-cdn.co...oke_pokemon.gif
'
Yes, it's like Deus Ex.

Modifié par KillerJudgement, 09 mars 2012 - 10:39 .

[Kaiyen Sciratim]

Heh, thanks KillerJudgment. Wasn't really the focus of the post. I'm pretty sure anybody who played or read about Deus Ex would have recognized this fact. Point of the post was to make a reason to Bioware why Deus Ex's endings don't go with the Mass Effect series.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Indeed.

[AlexMBrennan]

Indeed. You also get to room at the end with four three buttons to decide which shade of the same ending you'd like.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 mars 2012 - 11:11 .

[Kaiyen Sciratim]

AlexMBrennan, I think you're referring to Deus Ex: Human revolution. I was referring to the original Deus Ex in the post, but I agree with you on the DXHR. That ending was unsatisfactory as well, but not nearly as much as ME3. Mostly because in Mass Effect, you had 3 games to form a connection with your companions. Not seeing what happens to them leaves you feeling empty.

[DKJaigen]

Not even close to similar. NEXT!

[Greed1914]

I think you've really nailed the core difference. When the player is basically isolated from other characters, making huge choices and not necessarily seeing the results isn't a huge deal. It was impossible not to think of Deus Ex at the end of ME3, but like you said, what works in one setting doesn't work in others.

Bioware has masters of characterization on staff, and yet they are seemingly content to just go with slight variations of "The future is what we make it." If I want to have any chance of Shepard returning to those characters, I have to throw out all the effort with Geth and EDI If I don't want to do that, then those characters, including my LI, are deprived of Shepard. I felt so good returning Rannoch to Tali and the Quarians, only to see Tali stranded on some unknown planet.

An ending in vacuum is fine when only the player matters, but when we come to genuinely care about these characters, I guess I just expect more out of the people that made them.

[Kaiyen Sciratim]

DKJaigen wrote...

Not even close to similar. NEXT!

Nice dismissal of my post. NEXT!

[SmokePants]

You really think you're dating yourself by referencing Deus Ex? I was like, 20 when I played that.

Anyway, it seems like there are very few of us that are able or willing to see this from the point of view of the creators. OF COURSE they have to leave the ending a bit ambiguous. The Mass Effect franchise will continue -- Casey Hudson's job title is "Creative Director of Mass Effect". He probably earns royalties from the IP, so of course he's going to continue with the franchise.

Do you really expect them to paint themselves into a corner by laying out exactly what happens post-ME3? It's all TBD at this point, which will afford them the flexibility they need to make the next trilogy as great as the first one.

And you had your moments with those characters. MANY moments. Throughout the game. If you couldn't detect the finality of those last conversations, then I don't know what to say.

Modifié par SmokePants, 10 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[Kaiyen Sciratim]

Didn't say I was really dating myself, SmokePants. It just seems that Deus Ex is relatively unheard of amongst this generation of gamers.

As for your comments about seeing it from the creators' point of view, I agree that it will be entirely profitable to leave the ending "a bit ambiguous." But whether or not this is the satisfactory decision is still well within the confines of the people responding to the game. Apparently, according to your line of thinking, bygone are the times when new IPs could be wrapped up in an artistic whole. Must things always be left up in the air to leave room for more money to be made? Aren't you tired of franchise sequels yet?

Just look at the history of Bioware games. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights. Absolutely brilliant games, all of them. Why? Because they told the story well AND wrapped it up well. Don't doubt me when I say I loved the triology of Mass Effect. But how much more amazing would it have been if these 3 games had culminated in a sense of true finality of your choice. I'm not saying the way the developers chose to write the ending was bad. I'm saying they left some things out that would have added much more.

You say we had our time with these characters, and the conversations in the end had a sense of finality. That's not really the point. In the end, Shepard's choice of the fate of the galaxy and the consequences thereof occurred essentially in a vacuum--flashes of some peoples faces and boom, some trees and a sunny sky. Compare that to the ending of Mass Effect 2, where Shepard shrugs off the Illusive Man, walks back into his battered ship and we see each person he has encountered throughout the course of the game, preparing for more work to be done. The difference is that we, the player, get that connection with each character. A parallel for Mass Effect 3 could have been glimpses of each companion's reaction or position as they observed what happened to the galaxy. It doesn't need much to have that sense of closure, given the different nature of the game, just more than they gave.

Modifié par Kaiyen Sciratim, 10 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[Militarized]

We're just upset about our choices doing absolutely nothing to effect the outcome. They should have directly copied the ending of ME2, while making the "perfect" ending a hard goal to get to.

Then.. just like with ME2. They decide which ending is canon for the next game.

[KillerHappyFace]

SmokePants wrote...
Do you really expect them to paint themselves into a corner by laying out exactly what happens post-ME3? It's all TBD at this point, which will afford them the flexibility they need to make the next trilogy as great as the first one.

Actually, I think that they DID paint themselves into a corner with this one. Part of why I dislike it. It's open ended, sure, but in a completely different 'world'.

Even if they choose a cannon ending to expand upon, the Mass Effect universe is effectively over.

From a business standpoint, a hollywood 'You Win!' ending would be better. All spin off titles BioWare will release with these endings in play will have to be concurrent or prequels.

[Greed1914]

KillerHappyFace wrote...

SmokePants wrote...
Do you really expect them to paint themselves into a corner by laying out exactly what happens post-ME3? It's all TBD at this point, which will afford them the flexibility they need to make the next trilogy as great as the first one.

Actually, I think that they DID paint themselves into a corner with this one. Part of why I dislike it. It's open ended, sure, but in a completely different 'world'.

Even if they choose a cannon ending to expand upon, the Mass Effect universe is effectively over.

From a business standpoint, a hollywood 'You Win!' ending would be better. All spin off titles BioWare will release with these endings in play will have to be concurrent or prequels.

Like the OP said, the very, very open ending with no closure on characters works for a game like Deus Ex where the only character that really matters much is the PC.  Here, we're given great characters that we like, invest time in, help through various problems, and now they are just left to no real end. 

If Shepard had been vaporized and saved the galaxy from continuing the cycle through synergy and I had only ever dealt with Shepard for any extended time, then I can go with that.  But when you get to be friends with these characters, leaving them like that just feels wrong.

[Kaiyen Sciratim]

Greed1914 wrote...

If Shepard had been vaporized and saved the galaxy from continuing the cycle through synergy and I had only ever dealt with Shepard for any extended time, then I can go with that.  But when you get to be friends with these characters, leaving them like that just feels wrong.

A great TL;DR summary, Greed. Thanks.