38 réponses à ce sujet

[xtorma]

Did anyone else think...douchebags... during the quarian part of the game?

[MetioricTest]

Some Quarians are douchebags. Like Xen and Gerrel.

But many are not, like Tali and Kal'Reegar they have good reason to be. Their homeworld is overrun with robots and they are forced to live in space in horrible second class falling apart ships.where every decision from what food they can eat, what materials they can use and how many kids they can have is made FOR them due to necessity.

On top of that they need to wear horrible environmental suits their entire lives, including when eating and sleeping, or else they will suffer and die in agony.

On top of that, everyone in the galaxy hates them, mostly for untrue reasons so they are shunned and treated with disdain.

ON TOP OF THAT, the horrible falling apart fleet they live in can only last about another 70 years at best before it becomes utterly unsustainable and the majority of Quarians will die out of horrible food shortages and diseases. (Infuriatingly, this is only explained in the Ascension Book, even though it's VERY ****ING DAMN IMPORTANT for why the Quarians are utterly desperate to either retake Rannoch or colonize a new planet. Even while the Reapers are around.)


So it's not hard to see why being a Quarian might give a guy a complex. Being one is like rolling a 3 in the Game of Live.

[Dieb]

"Saints & jackasses, just like us."

Or maybe the few bad apples one? Or basically any other saying on the subject of how there is no sentient species without individuals that give them a bad name.

[MetioricTest]

Baelrahn wrote...

"Saints & jackasses, just like us."

Or maybe the few bad apples one? Or basically any other saying on the subject of how there is no sentient species without individuals that give them a bad name.

Name 1 bad Elcor, Volus or Vorcha?

Indoctrination doesn't count.

[Forst1999]

MetioricTest wrote...

Name 1 bad Elcor, Volus or Vorcha?

Indoctrination doesn't count.

Harrot, Pitne For, Kreete. Varying degrees of "bad", but these species don't have as many people appearing in the games as the quarians.

[MetioricTest]

I've give you Kreete but Harrot wasn't bad. He's just a merchant on Omega, trying to stay alive. And considering how dangerous Omega can be he;s actually pretty civil.

And Pitne is a drug smuggler which is sort of bad but all he did was just trick some Eclipse to kill and harm them and their operations. If that's "bad" then Shepard and Garrus are pure evil for just going in and wiping them all out a couple of times (and stealing their money while they are there)

[Dieb]

Wooops, I didn't check the date on the OP, just the first reply.


For what it's worth: I do realize that my comment is not based on scientific facts -if you will-, but more on probability. But still I highly doubt you yourself believe that if all these species existed, there wouldn't be a single "bad apple" just because you never consciously saw one.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 08 avril 2013 - 01:24 .

[Forst1999]

I admit Harrot is a bit of a stretch (thus "varying degrees of bad"), but we only have 4 named Elcor. And his business practice is at least a bit unethical.
I stand by Pitne For. He did not sell them stuff to "harm their operations". He knowingly poisoned people for profit, and it's implied that this isn't his first deal of this sort. It's just the ifrst time it has consequences for him. When Shepard or Garrus went against merc bands, it was to save lives or protect innocent citizens from them. In this case, Samara would have been forced to massacre awhole lot of people.

Modifié par Forst1999, 08 avril 2013 - 01:30 .

[Vargeisa]

In a race of spineless whimps bullies will easily rise to power.
That's how I see the quarians anyway.

[MetioricTest]

Forst1999 wrote...

I admit Harrot is a bit of a stretch (thus "varying degrees of bad"), but we only have 4 named Elcor. And his business practice is at least a bit unethical.
I stand by Pitne For. He did not sell them stuff to "harm their operations". He knowingly poisoned people for profit, and it's implied that this isn't his first deal of this sort. It's just the ifrst time it has consequences for him. When Shepard or Garrus went against merc bands, it was to save lives or protect innocent citizens from them. In this case, Samara would have been forced to massacre awhole lot of people.

So instead, Shepard Massacres a whole lot of people. And that makes it okay.

Come on you're having it both ways here. Garrus on Omega was pretty damn brutal

[Suron]

MetioricTest wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

"Saints & jackasses, just like us."

Or maybe the few bad apples one? Or basically any other saying on the subject of how there is no sentient species without individuals that give them a bad name.

Name 1 bad Elcor, Volus or Vorcha?

Indoctrination doesn't count.

name one Elcor, Volus, or Vorcha that got the attention the Quarians did and you'll have a point.  Otherwise..it's moot.

course there are good Quarians..but the ones in charge..and the ones that forced the martial law are douches....and their exodus was their own fault.....and instead of trying negotiation..they just attack again.

I think the Geth are way overrated and loved far more than they deserve..but that doesn't change the facts about the Geth, as a whole, being more rational, better as a "species" than the Quarians....

The Geth fought back in self defense...Quarians attack again...the Quarians will wipe the Geth out without a second thought...the Geth ONLY wipe out the Quarians if there is no other option..in self defense (again.)

I like the Quarians, don't get me wrong..Tali rocks...but as a whole the Quarians are complete morons and deserved almost everything they got/get.

[MetioricTest]

Suron wrote...


name one Elcor, Volus, or Vorcha that got the attention the Quarians did and you'll have a point.  Otherwise..it's moot.

That's not fair, Quarians are entire race. But plenty of specific characters got equal footing. In fact beyond some of the major Quarians, a lot of Elcor and Volus got more personality

course there are good Quarians..but the ones in charge..and the ones that forced the martial law are douches....and their exodus was their own fault.....and instead of trying negotiation..they just attack again.

It makes sense. You can't take risks with AI that can kill you. And in the future Xen's breakthrough made the Geth crap and they couldn't survive in space much longer.

Two options:

1: A really really easy fight and our home is ours again.
2: We tell the Geth can only last about 70 more years and beg and plead with them to please have mercy and pity on us enough to let us live at their feet.

If it wasn't for the Reapers, the Geth would have been as excint as the Protheans.

I like the Quarians, don't get me wrong..Tali rocks...but as a whole the Quarians are complete morons and deserved almost everything they got/get.

How so?

[Forst1999]

MetioricTest wrote...

So instead, Shepard Massacres a whole lot of people. And that makes it okay.

Their choice. 

Come on you're having it both ways here. Garrus on Omega was pretty damn brutal

Sure, playing law enforcement with lethal methods is questionable. But the motivation counts. Garrus killed people to protect people, Pitne For poisoned them for personal gain.

[Suron]

MetioricTest wrote...

Suron wrote...


name one Elcor, Volus, or Vorcha that got the attention the Quarians did and you'll have a point.  Otherwise..it's moot.

That's not fair, Quarians are entire race. But plenty of specific characters got equal footing. In fact beyond some of the major Quarians, a lot of Elcor and Volus got more personality

how isn't it fair? because it invalids your point? and a lot of elcor and volus have more? name 3 from both races..c'mon...I'll wait.........exactly.  We meet and interact with several more individual Quarians than Volus and Elcor that we even MEET..much less talk too.  invalid point is invalid

course there are good Quarians..but the ones in charge..and the ones that forced the martial law are douches....and their exodus was their own fault.....and instead of trying negotiation..they just attack again.

It makes sense. You can't take risks with AI that can kill you. And in the future Xen's breakthrough made the Geth crap and they couldn't survive in space much longer.

Two options:

1: A really really easy fight and our home is ours again.
2: We tell the Geth can only last about 70 more years and beg and plead with them to please have mercy and pity on us enough to let us live at their feet.

If it wasn't for the Reapers, the Geth would have been as excint as the Protheans.

L. O.  L.  exactly my point.  The U.S. could just nuke a lot of countries for an "easy victory" does it make it right? I'm not getting into the legitimacy of what the U.S. has done and fought over....but following your (lack) of logic...the U.S. should just nuke any country that challenges them instead of sending in ground troops?

c'mon that's stupid as can be.....you're literally saying it's better to wipe out an entire species than negotiat with them?  When the conflict was caused by their own stupidity! 

With that train of thought the "cold war" the soviet union and u.s. went through woulda just been a nuclear one...vietnam? nuked....etc...etc...etc... that's really dumb logic man..no personal offense meant there's just no other way to put it.

I like the Quarians, don't get me wrong..Tali rocks...but as a whole the Quarians are complete morons and deserved almost everything they got/get.

How so?

oh..I dunno...trying to wipe out the Geth for asking a question...forcing their own exodus...then instead of trying peace they outright attack when the galaxy is on the verge of a reaper invasion....little good that homeworld is going to do them (even if it was justified) when the reaper's roll in and roll over them.

the Quarians are in the position their in because of their own stupidity...fact.

[maurice tali zorah]

All Quarians are awesome!

[MetioricTest]

Forst1999 wrote...

Sure, playing law enforcement with lethal methods is questionable. But the motivation counts. Garrus killed people to protect people, Pitne For poisoned them for personal gain.

Garrus changed nothing. He said so himself. He just murdered hundreds if not thousands of people.

Murder is worse than drug smuggling.

how
isn't it fair? because it invalids your point?

"Name one character who has as much depth as this entire race."

That's an unfair question.  Meanwhile Harrot is a better character than Kenn.

and a lot of elcor and  volus have more? name 3 from both races..c'mon...I'll wait.........exactly.  We meet and interact with several more individual Quarians than Volus and Elcor that we even MEET..much less talk too. invalid point is invalid

Harrot, Xeltan, Petozi, Barla Von, Han Olar, Jahleed

L. O. L. exactly my point. The U.S. could just nuke a lot of countries for an "easy victory" does it make it right? I'm not getting into the legitimacy of what the U.S. has done and fought over....but following your (lack) of logic...the U.S. should just nuke any country that challenges them instead of sending in ground troops?

This is a painfully horrible Strawman argument and I'll repeat your words at you "c'mon that's stupid as can be"

The Quarians are not the US. They are not a Super-power living in Luxury "nuking poor people." they're tortured, desperate people in space, trying to take back their own homeworld before they all die out

There is no comparison.

To put it in perspective it's more like if Shepard found a device that made the Reapers docile, and used it to Take Earth back. Would you still be yelling at shepard for not trying to search for peace?

oh..I dunno...trying to wipe out the Geth for asking a question...forcing their own exodus...

So you'd leave AI unchecked? Good luck with that.

then instead of trying peace they outright attack when the galaxy is on the verge of a reaper invasion....little good that homeworld is going to do them (even if it was justified) when the reaper's roll in and roll over them.

All the good in the world because if they don't get their Homeworld back, they are dead anyway. They NEED it to live. So the Reaper threat does not matter much to them.

And how/why would you make peace with the Geth. They took your world, 2 years ago nearly killed everybody and aren't communicating with you. Meanwhile you're dying..

Do you suggest the Quarians beg and plead for the Geth to take them in? When they could so easily get their home back?

the Quarians are in the position their in because of their own stupidity...fact.

Actually that's opinion, and a pretty poor one.

Modifié par MetioricTest, 08 avril 2013 - 02:03 .

[Forst1999]

MetioricTest wrote...


Garrus changed nothing. He said so himself. He just murdered hundreds if not thousands of people.

Murder is worse than drug smuggling.

Him not changing much is hindsight. And while he didn't change Omega fundamentally, he sure helped a lot of people on the way. Methods and results are debatable, but he only wanted to protect people, and there was no other way to do so there. That's not bad.
It's not the drug smuggling per se I blame Pitne For for, it's selling drugs that are quite deadly to peole who don't know this. Just to make a good profit. That's bad, no matter who the victims are.

[Edolix]

Isn't there a great big 150+ page thread for this sort of discussion?

[TheWerdna]

Honesty, people forget that the quarian's reaction to the geth becoming sentiant is basically how every other race in the Mass Effect universe would have acted. Most of the galaxy considered AI inherently dangerous, even before the Geth were created, with the council making AI research illegal and hammering in the idea that AI = Bad. While this doesn't make it right, I honestly don't think humanity (or any other species) would have reacted any differently if we were in their shoes

[MetioricTest]

Forst1999 wrote...

Him not changing much is hindsight. And
while he didn't change Omega fundamentally, he sure helped a lot of
people on the way. Methods and results are debatable, but he only wanted
to protect people, and there was no other way to do so there. That's
not bad.
It's not the drug smuggling per se I blame Pitne For for,
it's selling drugs that are quite deadly to peole who don't know this.
Just to make a good profit. That's bad, no matter who the victims are.

Well as long as he realized he did nothing retrospectively and not while he was murdering people, it's all okay.

I suppose if Pitne For retrospectively regretted screwing over the Eclipse he would be fine and dandy right?

TheWerdna wrote...

Honesty, people forget that the quarian's reaction to the geth becoming sentiant is basically how every other race in the Mass Effect universe would have acted. Most of the galaxy considered AI inherently dangerous, even before the Geth were created, with the council making AI research illegal and hammering in the idea that AI = Bad. While this doesn't make it right, I honestly don't think humanity (or any other species) would have reacted any differently if we were in their shoes

Salarians might have done... Sneaky bastards

[Khelish]

Edolix wrote...

Isn't there a great big 150+ page thread for this sort of discussion?

This.

[Forst1999]

MetioricTest wrote...

Well as long as he realized he did nothing retrospectively and not while he was murdering people, it's all okay.

I suppose if Pitne For retrospectively regretted screwing over the Eclipse he would be fine and dandy right?

That wasn't my point at all. Just saying that failing at something doesn't invalidate the intention. We weren't talking about specific actions being a good idea, but about people being good or bad. So intention does matter.
The actual thing is that I think that killing people to protect people is better than killing people to enrich yourself. Your refusal to acknowledge this means that we either disagree too much and are going nowhere, or that you're messing with me. Either way, goodbye.

[Argolas]

maurice tali zorah wrote...

All Quarians are awesome!

Ehem... Xen?

[Wulfram]

Argolas wrote...

maurice tali zorah wrote...

All Quarians are awesome!

Ehem... Xen?

Xen is pretty awesome.  Crazy and maybe evil, but still awesome