57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Stigweird85]

Chyliss wrote...

You know what really bugs me? What bugs me so much that I came up with the VR theory as making the most sense in conjunction with Indoctrination? The fact that Shepard is DEAD! And has been since the beginning of ME2. Dead. Dead. Dead.

He is a hybrid organic/synthetic being with the Prothean cipher in his brain. Javik explains early on that memories are "stored" in organic tissue and the Protheans were able to figure out how to read that information. Is that what the Cipher actually is? Is that why Shep's cybernetically reconstituted body can remember everything that happened to him before he died? Or did Cerberus just bombard his subconscious brain with the description of memories so that if he woke up he would believe he was Shepard? However it happened, we the player don't even question that we are the original Shepard. Despite that fact that Shepard frickin DIED!!!

So unless Bioware is employing a form of spiritual magic as well as space magic, there is no possible way he came back from the dead. It's preposterous. So if it can't be true, then what is the alternative? What is he? Because he isn't the guy we played in ME1. Nuh-uh.

To me, that is where the player has been fooled all along. Reminds me of Revan in that respect. Shepard even foreshadows it himself on the Cerberus base when he hears Wilson telling TIM there's no way a brain dead that long could come back and he tells the squadmate "Maybe I'm just a high tech VI that thinks he's Commander Shepard."

So there you have it. I could be WAY off target with this. But as far as I'm concerned, you can't come back from the dead.

I always thought it weird that Shep is the one and only man to come back from the dead. It does raise a lot of questions in it's own right. However I decided to take Bioware at their word and assume that at least in their reality it is possible to achieve this. It isn't unheard of in Sci-Fi in general.  Peter F Hamilton is a prolific author and he has introduced a concept of relife where someone who dies is murder etc can be essentially cloned and given their old memories that would be held in storage.

Not exactly the same I know just giving an example of it in established Sci -Fi

[Mbednar]

captainbob8383 wrote...

Dont know if they were already posted here, but two tweets I find interesting:





Nothing big, but still, possible hints.

COULD JUST MEAN IT WILL MAKE SENSE WHEN WE GET "CLARIFICATION".

Even though accurately filling in these plot holes would just be silly.

[Tiny5th]

As for the unknown items in the secret endings they appear to be the cables seen on a lot of reapers tech, as saw them all over the derelict reaper

http://img.photobuck...th/IMAG0131.jpg

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Mbednar wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

Dont know if they were already posted here, but two tweets I find interesting:





Nothing big, but still, possible hints.

COULD JUST MEAN IT WILL MAKE SENSE WHEN WE GET "CLARIFICATION".

Even though accurately filling in these plot holes would just be silly.

I can totally see them going "see this was because the Catalyst beamed the crew up to the Normandy and the Normandy to the next mass relay and then casually placed a planet in its way so there could be lots of speculation, mmkay"

[CLB17]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Mechler wrote...

You people don't understand it. None of you do. The problem with the ending is not that it doesn't make sense. The problem is that it doesn't provide closure for the ones you cared about. Just Shepard(he dies. yes he dies, and he should). I confess, Indoctrination theory makes more sense than the current ending, but it provides FAR LESS CLOSURE. It doesn't show the fate of past squadmates or all the civilizations(like the literal ending). But it also gains a bit more. In case you haven't noticed in the literal interpretation, the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is safe. If indoctrination theory is true, the Reapers are out there and the release ending basically stops before the final fight. For me that would be a far worse and more infuriating scenario than the current. Even more infuriating. Not a rushed ending, but no ending at all.

Bioware if this was your plan all along, please reconsider at once. Even not doing anything is a lesser evil.

Sorry boys. You made a wonderful job piacing it together, but the theories big failure is a fact.

Thats your opinion, i believe most people would think this is a great idea, alan wake released its ending as a dlc, there are others... and dont tell me you wouldnt buy it if it wasnt free(i think it will be, perhaps on the disc already)

Just relax and wait for april to roll around, you could perhaps be pleasantly surprised!

The Galaxy is safe? if you take the endings at face value then the mass relays are destroyed and all the turien and krogen forces, all the Asari and Salarian forces and even the entire quarian species are stranded on Earth. The planet was already having trouble supporting the population of 13 billion before the reaper invasion and now it has to provide for several more species. The Turiens and Quariens can't even eat human food. If the endings are taken at face value then Bioware doesn't need to release dlc to clarify the ending, this video perfectly clarifies the ending.

[Gistnik]

Tiny5th wrote...

As for the unknown items in the secret endings they appear to be the cables seen on a lot of reapers tech, as saw them all over the derelict reaper

http://img.photobuck...th/IMAG0131.jpg

Sorry but... What is this? 

[N7Gold]

Vahilor wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

Heavymetal.fan wrote...

Dont want to sound like a negative nancy but, if Bioware intended to make a ending dlc why would they add the scene with the stargazer, show you the text saying you are a legend, or even have the co-founder(or whatever) having to reply to all the comments on the bad ending. If it were intended for the indoc theory to be true wouldn't he just be like lol wait for the dlc it will blow your mind. Idk the more I think about it the more I think its just not practically possible for it to be true.

Maybe they did not expect their fanbase to get THIS out of control. 

I don't think they ever supposed such a reaction of their fan base =) at all.

They underestimate us fans a lot. They didn't expect Tali to become so popular, for example.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Tiny5th wrote...

As for the unknown items in the secret endings they appear to be the cables seen on a lot of reapers tech, as saw them all over the derelict reaper

http://img.photobuck...th/IMAG0131.jpg

Remember if Shepard is indeed lying in rubble in London in the scret ending the cable could be connected with the transport beam which is not that far away.

[Mbednar]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

Dont know if they were already posted here, but two tweets I find interesting:





Nothing big, but still, possible hints.

COULD JUST MEAN IT WILL MAKE SENSE WHEN WE GET "CLARIFICATION".

Even though accurately filling in these plot holes would just be silly.

I can totally see them going "see this was because the Catalyst beamed the crew up to the Normandy and the Normandy to the next mass relay and then casually placed a planet in its way so there could be lots of speculation, mmkay"

Its what I'm expecting sadly.

Justify garbage with more garbage.

[MadRabbit999]

captainbob8383 wrote...

Dont know if they were already posted here, but two tweets I find interesting:





Nothing big, but still, possible hints.

Playing devil's advocate here, but to me that means "We will add the scene where you see your squadmates getting on the Normandy"

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bigstig wrote...

Chyliss wrote...

You know what really bugs me? What bugs me so much that I came up with the VR theory as making the most sense in conjunction with Indoctrination? The fact that Shepard is DEAD! And has been since the beginning of ME2. Dead. Dead. Dead.

He is a hybrid organic/synthetic being with the Prothean cipher in his brain. Javik explains early on that memories are "stored" in organic tissue and the Protheans were able to figure out how to read that information. Is that what the Cipher actually is? Is that why Shep's cybernetically reconstituted body can remember everything that happened to him before he died? Or did Cerberus just bombard his subconscious brain with the description of memories so that if he woke up he would believe he was Shepard? However it happened, we the player don't even question that we are the original Shepard. Despite that fact that Shepard frickin DIED!!!

So unless Bioware is employing a form of spiritual magic as well as space magic, there is no possible way he came back from the dead. It's preposterous. So if it can't be true, then what is the alternative? What is he? Because he isn't the guy we played in ME1. Nuh-uh.

To me, that is where the player has been fooled all along. Reminds me of Revan in that respect. Shepard even foreshadows it himself on the Cerberus base when he hears Wilson telling TIM there's no way a brain dead that long could come back and he tells the squadmate "Maybe I'm just a high tech VI that thinks he's Commander Shepard."

So there you have it. I could be WAY off target with this. But as far as I'm concerned, you can't come back from the dead.

I always thought it weird that Shep is the one and only man to come back from the dead. It does raise a lot of questions in it's own right. However I decided to take Bioware at their word and assume that at least in their reality it is possible to achieve this. It isn't unheard of in Sci-Fi in general.  Peter F Hamilton is a prolific author and he has introduced a concept of relife where someone who dies is murder etc can be essentially cloned and given their old memories that would be held in storage.

Not exactly the same I know just giving an example of it in established Sci -Fi

Well Shepard could only be brought back because his brain was relatively intact as it was protected by his helmet. If Memories are the hardest part in bringing someone back, the brain beeing intact even if dead is a huge step in the right direction. The rest of the body can easily be reconstructed by cloning and cybernetics, the brain and memories is the main problem in bringing someone back the way i see it.

Beyond that it took two years and an enormous amount of ressources to bring Sheaprd back in a project most who worked on it considered impossible.

[Stigweird85]

masster blaster wrote...

What happens if the ending takes you back to where Shepard is regaining contentions from the Prothean Beacon from Eden Prime. Won't that be funny if you have to to all replay the story lines again, but Shepard  knows what will happen in the end,, and try's to change it

There would be a backlash against that, unless done very very very well. Nothing stinks more of bad or rushed writing than it was all a dream. Having a small segment as a dream okay. Having the ENTIRE story this way not so much.

Acceptable examples of it was all a dream(or was it) are: The Wizard of Oz, Inception and Source Code. A bad example is Repo Men

[Tiny5th]

Raistlin Majare: that would be what I was implying XD, its just I saw some speculating it was rebar or wires on the citadel.

[Vahilor]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

Dont know if they were already posted here, but two tweets I find interesting:





Nothing big, but still, possible hints.

Playing devil's advocate here, but to me that means "We will add the scene where you see your squadmates getting on the Normandy"

This can mean everything and nothing... also it can like said be only adding stuff to show that Joker picked up the crew on earth and fleed like a stupid coward... I sure hope not.. but could be possible...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Tiny5th wrote...

Raistlin Majare: that would be what I was implying XD, its just I saw some speculating it was rebar or wires on the citadel.

Yeah, I know that I have never been able to wrap my head around people claiming that because it is a Reaper wire Sheaprd must be on the Citadel...I during all our visits to the Citadel we see no wires like that lying around and it would make no sense for the Reapers to put something clearly indentified as their tech in their greatest trap...

But on the Earth near that transport beam I could easily see their beeing lots of wires even if I cant remember if there actually were any visible from my playthrough in that part.

[schneeland]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Playing devil's advocate here, but to me that means "We will add the scene where you see your squadmates getting on the Normandy"

Well, if you consider the backlash of the current ending, in that case they'd better fortify their labs

[MadRabbit999]

schneeland wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Playing devil's advocate here, but to me that means "We will add the scene where you see your squadmates getting on the Normandy"

Well, if you consider the backlash of the current ending, in that case they'd better fortify their labs

WhaT I also mean is, that for all we know the DLC might be only about filling plotholes, and not making the IT fit.

For instance the deleted Scene of Liara and Garrus dying... maybe they will bring that back, so it will make sense that Joker will not need to go on earth and pick thme up because they are already dead.

[Vahilor]

schneeland wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Playing devil's advocate here, but to me that means "We will add the scene where you see your squadmates getting on the Normandy"

Well, if you consider the backlash of the current ending, in that case they'd better fortify their labs

They better get themselfs some Mass relays and flee into another Galaxy

[Gernbuster]

http://i1.kym-cdn.co...272/515/b9f.jpg

[Stigweird85]

Cross429 wrote...

Sorry if this topic has been addressed (please ignore if it has; will search the forum some more).

I'm sold on the Indoctrination Theory. It actually occured to me after the conversation with Ashley on Mars where she wonders if Shep could actually be a Cerberus sleeper, and the evidence piled on from there (thought the boy was....er....off, but didn't catch on until a couple hours of later as to why).

However, once criticism I haven't been able to address is: why, when you fail to accumulate suitable EMS, the ONLY ending available to you is the "Destroy Option" (supposedly the "wake up" from the Indoc?) Why are the Indoctrinated endings opened up only with better EMS totals? Seems that it should be the reverse....

One theory, of course, is that "Destroy" is only a "wake up" at sufficiently high EMS because supposedly all the effort Shep's put in and his successes in composing that EMS bolsters his willpower. Most endings - even "Destroy" - are simply Shepard Indoctrinated; only the highest EMS total has him waking up. This is decent, but a little in the weeds for my taste if Indoc was planned from the beginning.

Also: why does Synthesis (a clearly bad ending from the Indoc standpoint) only appear at the highest EMS level? Not terribly consistent.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Indoc was planned and incorporated but abandoned at the last minute when they were "fleshing out" the ending: specifically the final cut scene. But I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. Thoughts?

If this has been answered please ignore(I'm about 10pages behind)

The option on low EMS depends on what you did with collector base in Mass Effect 2

if you keep if the only option is control(I think)

Also with Low EMS there is a different attitide from starchild as with high EMS he states Wake Up, low EMS it's Why are you here.

The argument is with low EMS you are no longer worth their time as you are only a threat with the galaxy behind you. At which point as they leader the reapers want to turn you into their agent. If you are essentially a sole agent(low ems) then they have no use of you.

[CLB17]

Gernbuster wrote...

http://i1.kym-cdn.co...272/515/b9f.jpg

LOL, so true.

[Spectre-61]

Gernbuster wrote...

http://i1.kym-cdn.co...272/515/b9f.jpg

Nice.

[Martukis]

bigstig wrote...

Cross429 wrote...

Sorry if this topic has been addressed (please ignore if it has; will search the forum some more).

I'm sold on the Indoctrination Theory. It actually occured to me after the conversation with Ashley on Mars where she wonders if Shep could actually be a Cerberus sleeper, and the evidence piled on from there (thought the boy was....er....off, but didn't catch on until a couple hours of later as to why).

However, once criticism I haven't been able to address is: why, when you fail to accumulate suitable EMS, the ONLY ending available to you is the "Destroy Option" (supposedly the "wake up" from the Indoc?) Why are the Indoctrinated endings opened up only with better EMS totals? Seems that it should be the reverse....

One theory, of course, is that "Destroy" is only a "wake up" at sufficiently high EMS because supposedly all the effort Shep's put in and his successes in composing that EMS bolsters his willpower. Most endings - even "Destroy" - are simply Shepard Indoctrinated; only the highest EMS total has him waking up. This is decent, but a little in the weeds for my taste if Indoc was planned from the beginning.

Also: why does Synthesis (a clearly bad ending from the Indoc standpoint) only appear at the highest EMS level? Not terribly consistent.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Indoc was planned and incorporated but abandoned at the last minute when they were "fleshing out" the ending: specifically the final cut scene. But I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. Thoughts?

If this has been answered please ignore(I'm about 10pages behind)

The option on low EMS depends on what you did with collector base in Mass Effect 2

if you keep if the only option is control(I think)

Also with Low EMS there is a different attitide from starchild as with high EMS he states Wake Up, low EMS it's Why are you here.

The argument is with low EMS you are no longer worth their time as you are only a threat with the galaxy behind you. At which point as they leader the reapers want to turn you into their agent. If you are essentially a sole agent(low ems) then they have no use of you.

 http://mod.gib.me/ma...3/testdump2.txt shows that there a dialogues prepared forboth only option destroy, and only option control. I have no save where the collector's base was saved, though I am working on it. Some of those conditionals would also be interesting - like the one that destermines if the line "and also the relays" is included in the destroy explanation.

 The biod_end002_400guardian_loc_int.end003_catalyst_m_D.end003_catalyst_m_dlg header is a good place to start, I think.

[schneeland]

MadRabbit999 wrote...
WhaT I also mean is, that for all we know the DLC might be only about filling plotholes, and not making the IT fit.

For instance the deleted Scene of Liara and Garrus dying... maybe they will bring that back, so it will make sense that Joker will not need to go on earth and pick thme up because they are already dead.

While it is true that this may happen, I doubt it - for many reasons given on the past 1000 pages. But basically what turned me to IT in the first place was that the end is so off everything before, that I hardly believe it was without purpose.

On a side note: this is funny when you factor in that I am German and I am thus expected to be more pessimistic

[MadRabbit999]

schneeland wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...
WhaT I also mean is, that for all we know the DLC might be only about filling plotholes, and not making the IT fit.

For instance the deleted Scene of Liara and Garrus dying... maybe they will bring that back, so it will make sense that Joker will not need to go on earth and pick thme up because they are already dead.

While it is true that this may happen, I doubt it - for many reasons given on the past 1000 pages. But basically what turned me to IT in the first place was that the end is so off everything before, that I hardly believe it was without purpose.

On a side note: this is funny when you factor in that I am German and I am thus expected to be more pessimistic

I was also going to strongly beleive in the IT  at one point, but when I saw the massive level of rushed up content, about incredibly low textures and poorly designed geometry, as well as giant holes with "mirror of death" effects up in the catalyst area, I started believe that unfortunately they were simply out of time, that is why they were full of plotholes and inconsistencies. Why would the rest of the game not present the same horrific visual bugs ottherwise?

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 29 mars 2012 - 10:22 .