57139 réponses à ce sujet

[JustAidan]

Rifneno wrote...

bo_7md wrote...

OMG.... you are totaly right shepard wouldn't be able to with stand say the normandy exploding with him still inside and get out of it without a scratch.... like in this video here:

source   www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XPDrrx9C0

On a serious note that explosion we saw in the Citadel, The conduit one, is too small to kill him it lasted no more than 3 seconds go back and see for yourself. The second explosion if it was as big as it seems the citadel would have dismantled from the centre not just the arms.

The current ending has plot holes, yes. The doesn't mean ill take an explanation with more problems in it, at least with the current ending you can put some reason behind them.

Every science teacher in the country just broke down in tears and they have no idea why.

I was wondering where these tears were comnig from:crying:

[Golferguy758]

Posting on phone at work.
Lol at the thought that shepard could survive an uncontrolled reentry into the earth's atmosphere. or that if he somehow managed to stay on the citadel as it crashed to earth it would cushion his fall. Just because you have something in between you and the ground, even if you were laying on it, the kinetic energy will still hit you and turn you to paste.

Drop an egg onto the sidewalk and it goes splat. Drop an eg laying on a sheet of metal on to the same sidewalk and it goes just as splat

[CloudStrife7]

I moved my post here so it doesn't get burried: 
http://social.biowar...765414#10765414

Modifié par CloudStrife7, 29 mars 2012 - 12:44 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

bo_7md wrote...

Lol, I know That these things might not be possible but I'm bringing up that it has precedence in the series. It's a SCI-FI so as long as they can come up with some glued up science reason its ok I guess. See starwars, SG1, Firefly, Startrek, BSG..etc...etc.

Might? Anyway, ME has always tried hard to keep things as scientifically accurate as possible. Sometimes you have to make stuff up in sci-fi, but for the most part they try to keep it reasonably believable. More importantly, no it doesn't have precedence. Shepard was in protective suit, he was outside the Normandy when it blew up rather than in it, Alchera has less atmospheric pressure and gravity than Earth, and it still took 2 years of still unexplained science to bring him back from what was basically a puddle of meat and a completely dead brain.

Yeah exactly, try comparing that to a onboard explosion on the Citadel, then reentry without protective suit, before impact on a plnaet with higher gravity.

There is no iffs or buts here, no possibilities even with the Citadel wreckage supposedly shielding him, he would be dead and amonut of Lazrus would be able to bring him back. And he most certainly would not take a deep breath like he is still alive.

[JustAidan]

RoyalGambit wrote...

Don't know if it has been mentioned, but the IGN spoilercast actually seems to support indoc theory. I know that doesn't really matter, but think it's nice to see that they "get it".

I doubt it, IGN just wants page views (no one give them any!)

[EmperorZorn]

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

... -109° Celsius ?
That makes as much sense as the rest of the ending.

[NS Wizdum]

Kadayi wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

The theory is that Shepard wakes up, jumps into the beam, and kicks ass. Additional content would be added by unlocking files on the disc, or by download. The theory is not saying that shepard just wakes up, reapers are still there, game ends. That would be stupid.

Well based on the last video I saw the gist seemed to be that everything is a dream, up until the end when if you take the destroy option you wake up. 

yes, the player wakes up and then completes the final mission.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

CloudStrife7 wrote...

I watched A801506's video trying to debunk the indoctrination theory.  He said that saying that the cables in the breath scene are found on the fake citadel.  
(Image below taken on “the citadel” after being hit from Harbinger’s blast making a dash to the beam)https://lh6.googleus...izr8GqlaLh2bYPU[/b]

https://lh6.googleus...iG5GfMLNn-Qo7Tc[/b]
(Image above from the breath scene showing the same cables)

A comment on the indoctrination video lead me to research the reapear IFF.  I ended up on http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF where I found a screenshot inside the inside the derelict reaper in Mass Effect 2 which has the same cables at the top of the screen, seen in the breath video.  
Larger: http://images.wikia...._Interior_2.png
Image 2: http://images.wikia...._Interior_1.png

Conclusion:
I believe that in the last moments of Mass effect 3 (after the blast from the Harbinger - which possibly the blast itself was a transport blast - not destructive) Shepard was transported inside Harbinger (not the citadel).

Support:[/b]
When Shepard awakens from the laser blast, the following is heard over the radio:  "God, they're all gone!"  Meaning they all might be transported into the reaper by the blast (possibly all the other bodies there?).

Once inside he was presented with a the choice to destroy Harbinger or become indoctrinated.  If you make the correct choice the wreckage around Shepard is from london buildings and the destroyed reaper that's why you see the same cables there as well as a piece of red (reaper) wreckage (far right of breath screenshot).

Even if it turns out that you're not in a Reaper the same cables are most likely a clue of their influence.

Other things I’ve thought about but haven’t put into place yet...

Legion and the Legion clone always say “Shepard Commander.”  Admiral Hackett says something similar after shepard activates the crucible control panel “nothing’s happening..  shepard … commander..”
The way its spoken reminds me of Legion and heard almost as if there was static, however there was none before this.

Legion has been with Shepard a long time, and was found inside the derelict reaper. I think he could possibly an influence in his indoctrination.

-CloudStrife7

Interesting, but same cables could just as easily be lying somewhere around the Transport beam we were charging. Not that I noticed any, but it is far from impossible.

Also the most important difference between the cable in the rubble and the reaper cables I can see right there is that the cable in the rubble has very different lines running around them. They are dark without the small ovals from the Reaper cables and most important spiral around it instead of just beeing circles around it. And then there is the fact that the "cable" in the rubble seems to be standing straight up in the air like it was solid.

To be quite honest seeing this the cables seem nothing alike to me, in fact that in rubble looks more like metal than a cable seeing it up close like this.

Could just be me though.

[Gernbuster]

EmperorZorn wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

... -109° Celsius ?
That makes as much sense as the rest of the ending.

Would u mind to open the link below my statment -.-

The picture is just another sign for IDT, this is another planet -.- from the 1. book.

oncer more

and I think this might be one of the best evidences for IDT.

Modifié par Gernbuster, 29 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[Stigweird85]

mcgreggers99 wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

btw something else:

Very very interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this...

interesting but that then brings us back to the circular logic argument.

The term "machine devils" is interesting, almost fanatical. Which raised the question if these people refered to reapers as "machine devils" then why build them in the first place which the child claims t o have done.

I can understand an ancient race calling reapers "machine devils" if they just came across them, but if they were created for a purpose by said race then they must have had a better name that "machine devil?" Why would you create something and call it devil? Unless devil means something else in their culture.

You could counter argue the name is just a name, but at least with Geth it was revealed that this name was picked as it meant servant/slave in the quarian language

Maybe I am looking into it waay to much

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EmperorZorn wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

... -109° Celsius ?
That makes as much sense as the rest of the ending.

The planet codex and the vid planet are two different planets. He simply linked the codex of an intresting planet in the entire whole right beneath, it has nothing to do with the planet the Normandy crashes on.

I know this because I tottaly did not make the same mistake as you

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bigstig wrote...

mcgreggers99 wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

btw something else:

Very very interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this...

interesting but that then brings us back to the circular logic argument.

The term "machine devils" is interesting, almost fanatical. Which raised the question if these people refered to reapers as "machine devils" then why build them in the first place which the child claims t o have done.

I can understand an ancient race calling reapers "machine devils" if they just came across them, but if they were created for a purpose by said race then they must have had a better name that "machine devil?" Why would you create something and call it devil? Unless devil means something else in their culture.

You could counter argue the name is just a name, but at least with Geth it was revealed that this name was picked as it meant servant/slave in the quarian language

Maybe I am looking into it waay to much

Or the "vision" the Volus got was from a Reaper Artifact/Prothean beacon and it is playing tricks on him, either by Indoctrination or that his mind couldnt handle it (referencing Liaras´s quote about how a lesser persons mind would likely have been destroyed by the Prothean Beacon).

Interesting none the less though.

[Mechler]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Mechler wrote...

You people don't understand it. None of you do. The problem with the ending is not that it doesn't make sense. The problem is that it doesn't provide closure for the ones you cared about. Just Shepard(he dies. yes he dies, and he should). I confess, Indoctrination theory makes more sense than the current ending, but it provides FAR LESS CLOSURE. It doesn't show the fate of past squadmates or all the civilizations(like the literal ending). But it also gains a bit more. In case you haven't noticed in the literal interpretation, the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is safe. If indoctrination theory is true, the Reapers are out there and the release ending basically stops before the final fight. For me that would be a far worse and more infuriating scenario than the current. Even more infuriating. Not a rushed ending, but no ending at all.

Bioware if this was your plan all along, please reconsider at once. Even not doing anything is a lesser evil.

Sorry boys. You made a wonderful job piacing it together, but the theories big failure is a fact.

Duh. You know that the definition of a theory makes it unable to fail?

Also, in case you didn't notice, most of us here are thinking there might be a DLC that will further expand the ending.. providing closure.. and yeah, that can actually work with the indoctrination theory...

Definition? OKay ******, let's talk definitions. like the theory of relativity. Einstein wasn't like: This is probably Bull**** but... So yeah, scientificly, theories can and do fail.

Also you are completely missing the point. the DLC will not be/shouldn't be about exPANDING the ending, but exPLAINING. Or rewriting it altogether. Personally I prefer a story with a confusing ending, than one that ended before any kind of closure. failing at writinng is a flaw. Deliberately not giving closure to csah in on DLC-s is pure evil.

[Kadayi]

NS Wizdum wrote...

yes, the player wakes up and then completes the final mission.

Which happens when? 

They've said time and again that future DLC will be sidecar (IE quests that take place within the existing narrative). This idea that they've effectively released an unfinished game, deliberately punk'd the entire player base (2/3rds of whom wouldn't see the twist anyhows) and are going to release the 'true ending' later on is just wishful thinking.   

Modifié par Kadayi, 29 mars 2012 - 12:51 .

[LadyVakarian]

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

btw something else:

I found this all very interesting. We always knew that Bioware was finished with the story before we even finished ME1, they told us so even. I am going through a binge of ME1, ME2, and ME3 playing with my friends to keep me from pulling my hair out over the ending. I guess I will have to check this out. Is this screen from ME1 or 2? And do you know what Cluster/Nebula it's in? How bout the solar system? Sorry for the questions, I want to find this for myself. 

[estebanus]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

CloudStrife7 wrote...

I watched A801506's video trying to debunk the indoctrination theory.  He said that saying that the cables in the breath scene are found on the fake citadel.  
(Image below taken on “the citadel” after being hit from Harbinger’s blast making a dash to the beam)https://lh6.googleus...izr8GqlaLh2bYPU[/b]

https://lh6.googleus...iG5GfMLNn-Qo7Tc[/b]
(Image above from the breath scene showing the same cables)

A comment on the indoctrination video lead me to research the reapear IFF.  I ended up on http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Reaper_IFF where I found a screenshot inside the inside the derelict reaper in Mass Effect 2 which has the same cables at the top of the screen, seen in the breath video.  
Larger: http://images.wikia...._Interior_2.png
Image 2: http://images.wikia...._Interior_1.png

Conclusion:
I believe that in the last moments of Mass effect 3 (after the blast from the Harbinger - which possibly the blast itself was a transport blast - not destructive) Shepard was transported inside Harbinger (not the citadel).

Support:[/b]
When Shepard awakens from the laser blast, the following is heard over the radio:  "God, they're all gone!"  Meaning they all might be transported into the reaper by the blast (possibly all the other bodies there?).

Once inside he was presented with a the choice to destroy Harbinger or become indoctrinated.  If you make the correct choice the wreckage around Shepard is from london buildings and the destroyed reaper that's why you see the same cables there as well as a piece of red (reaper) wreckage (far right of breath screenshot).

Even if it turns out that you're not in a Reaper the same cables are most likely a clue of their influence.

Other things I’ve thought about but haven’t put into place yet...

Legion and the Legion clone always say “Shepard Commander.”  Admiral Hackett says something similar after shepard activates the crucible control panel “nothing’s happening..  shepard … commander..”
The way its spoken reminds me of Legion and heard almost as if there was static, however there was none before this.

Legion has been with Shepard a long time, and was found inside the derelict reaper. I think he could possibly an influence in his indoctrination.

-CloudStrife7

Interesting, but same cables could just as easily be lying somewhere around the Transport beam we were charging. Not that I noticed any, but it is far from impossible.

Also the most important difference between the cable in the rubble and the reaper cables I can see right there is that the cable in the rubble has very different lines running around them. They are dark without the small ovals from the Reaper cables and most important spiral around it instead of just beeing circles around it. And then there is the fact that the "cable" in the rubble seems to be standing straight up in the air like it was solid.

To be quite honest seeing this the cables seem nothing alike to me, in fact that in rubble looks more like metal than a cable seeing it up close like this.

Could just be me though.

 

Agreed. I never relly thought that these "cables" you see in the brath scene are actual cables. I always thought they looked more like those Metal"wires" people put into buildings to stabilize them.
You can see these in real life, too. Just try going to a destroyed building and you can see these exact same wires hanging out of the concrete.

[bo_7md]

Rifneno wrote...

bo_7md wrote...

Lol, I know That these things might not be possible but I'm bringing up that it has precedence in the series. It's a SCI-FI so as long as they can come up with some glued up science reason its ok I guess. See starwars, SG1, Firefly, Startrek, BSG..etc...etc.

Might? Anyway, ME has always tried hard to keep things as scientifically accurate as possible. Sometimes you have to make stuff up in sci-fi, but for the most part they try to keep it reasonably believable. More importantly, no it doesn't have precedence. Shepard was in protective suit, he was outside the Normandy when it blew up rather than in it, Alchera has less atmospheric pressure and gravity than Earth, and it still took 2 years of still unexplained science to bring him back from what was basically a puddle of meat and a completely dead brain.

Ok, so ignoring the fact that i said, that its a sci fi but as long as come up...<see post above>. He was in a protective suit in the citadel too, it is the same suit he wears on missions, and ignoring the fact that he is shown in what appears to be an N7 suit ( or what remianed of it) while i was wearing something else, I'm giving examples of
1-surviving an explosion.
2-being in the citadel with a breach in the atmosphere/structure.

I didn't say that he survived in direct contact with earths atmosphere, I didn't say that they can bring him back from the dead and I didn't say that scifi made 0 sense. Why are you responding with these facts is beyond me.
But I agree, they have to keep it somewhat realistic people are not complete idiots.

as for the Might part, yes I don't know every scintific law that applies here, so yes might. If you know then great, I honestly envy your knowledge (i'm not being sarcastic here), because I love sci-fi and I would love to be able to link everything they mentioned with something more realistic.!

[Gernbuster]

bigstig wrote...

mcgreggers99 wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

I found the planet, where the Normandy crashes Guess you will like it

btw something else:

Very very interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this...

interesting but that then brings us back to the circular logic argument.

The term "machine devils" is interesting, almost fanatical. Which raised the question if these people refered to reapers as "machine devils" then why build them in the first place which the child claims t o have done.

I can understand an ancient race calling reapers "machine devils" if they just came across them, but if they were created for a purpose by said race then they must have had a better name that "machine devil?" Why would you create something and call it devil? Unless devil means something else in their culture.

You could counter argue the name is just a name, but at least with Geth it was revealed that this name was picked as it meant servant/slave in the quarian language

Maybe I am looking into it waay to much

Isn't it quit obvious?
The child tells Shep, the Reapers are the good machienes, which protect organic from "evil" synthetics.
This might be their standart indoctrination argument.
Saren thought as well, the Reaper would safe/help us.



PS: sorry I missed u might have not read the book. The volus had contact to souvereign and got indoctrinated.

Modifié par Gernbuster, 29 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[Martukis]

Anyone else notice that the artifacts recovered from a Cerberus facility during an N7 mission are the same model and such as the "indoctrination boosters" players disable during a multiplayer game?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Off topic here, but...

...good god I need to change my Avatar as I just realized I am starting read everything I post in Mordins voice...cool, but gets kinda freaky as I realize exactly how attached I have become to the series.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 mars 2012 - 12:56 .

[bo_7md]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

bo_7md wrote...

Lol, I know That these things might not be possible but I'm bringing up that it has precedence in the series. It's a SCI-FI so as long as they can come up with some glued up science reason its ok I guess. See starwars, SG1, Firefly, Startrek, BSG..etc...etc.

Might? Anyway, ME has always tried hard to keep things as scientifically accurate as possible. Sometimes you have to make stuff up in sci-fi, but for the most part they try to keep it reasonably believable. More importantly, no it doesn't have precedence. Shepard was in protective suit, he was outside the Normandy when it blew up rather than in it, Alchera has less atmospheric pressure and gravity than Earth, and it still took 2 years of still unexplained science to bring him back from what was basically a puddle of meat and a completely dead brain.

Yeah exactly, try comparing that to a onboard explosion on the Citadel, then reentry without protective suit, before impact on a plnaet with higher gravity.

There is no iffs or buts here, no possibilities even with the Citadel wreckage supposedly shielding him, he would be dead and amonut of Lazrus would be able to bring him back. And he most certainly would not take a deep breath like he is still alive.

Yeah, I mentioned that i think the citadel is still in space so even if I assume this is correct, and they can't come up with a reason like emergency shielding It wouldn't matter as I think the citadel is still in place. Again the concrete scene doesn't mae sense in London too even if for continuity reasons. i.e you show up wearing something then the next scene you are wearing something else.

rubble appearing out of nowhere all around him ?

[LadyVakarian]

Mechler wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Mechler wrote...

You people don't understand it. None of you do. The problem with the ending is not that it doesn't make sense. The problem is that it doesn't provide closure for the ones you cared about. Just Shepard(he dies. yes he dies, and he should). I confess, Indoctrination theory makes more sense than the current ending, but it provides FAR LESS CLOSURE. It doesn't show the fate of past squadmates or all the civilizations(like the literal ending). But it also gains a bit more. In case you haven't noticed in the literal interpretation, the reapers are destroyed and the galaxy is safe. If indoctrination theory is true, the Reapers are out there and the release ending basically stops before the final fight. For me that would be a far worse and more infuriating scenario than the current. Even more infuriating. Not a rushed ending, but no ending at all.

Bioware if this was your plan all along, please reconsider at once. Even not doing anything is a lesser evil.

Sorry boys. You made a wonderful job piacing it together, but the theories big failure is a fact.

Duh. You know that the definition of a theory makes it unable to fail?

Also, in case you didn't notice, most of us here are thinking there might be a DLC that will further expand the ending.. providing closure.. and yeah, that can actually work with the indoctrination theory...

Definition? OKay ******, let's talk definitions. like the theory of relativity. Einstein wasn't like: This is probably Bull**** but... So yeah, scientificly, theories can and do fail.

Also you are completely missing the point. the DLC will not be/shouldn't be about exPANDING the ending, but exPLAINING. Or rewriting it altogether. Personally I prefer a story with a confusing ending, than one that ended before any kind of closure. failing at writinng is a flaw. Deliberately not giving closure to csah in on DLC-s is pure evil.

First off, I don't think we need to be calling each other names. <_< If Bioware planned this, than great. We are piecing together parts that would explain the theory. We are not writing it or have any insight of what the writing might be. I appreciate all of the opinions on this thread, but honestly, if you don't like the theory and would rather call names, I wonder why people even decide to post. I completely understand, however, the hesitation. This has never been done and it could be either a great publicity stunt that will put this series at the top OR a total flop that makes gamers angry. So far, if this theory is correct, I think it will be the first of the two. This ending can do both expand and explain if written right. Like I had said in the beginning, we are not the writers, we are simply avid fans who want to make the endings to a FANTASTIC series better for ourselves. There is overwelming evidence to support this theory and I think that intimidates others (not say it intimidates those I quoted). We all need to realise that each and every one of us is a fan and we are disappointed. If you like the IT, great, if you don't, feel free to pass this thread by. We will be happy to take any input in debunking or questioning and we all SHOULD react in a civilized manner to each other. We don't need trolls, on either side of this conversation.  

To lighten the mood, do you like the meme I created? I call it Scumbag Cerberus:




 

[Denvian]

estebanus wrote...
  

Agreed. I never relly thought that these "cables" you see in the brath scene are actual cables. I always thought they looked more like those Metal"wires" people put into buildings to stabilize them.
You can see these in real life, too. Just try going to a destroyed building and you can see these exact same wires hanging out of the concrete.

Rebar... they look like rebar.  Or at least that is what I always thought.

Modifié par Denvian, 29 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[bo_7md]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Off topic here, but...

...good god I need to change my Avatar as I just realized I am starting read everything I post in Mordins voice...

"Bit of a cloaca, though. Loved his speeches. Hold the line!...Personally
prefer to get job done and go home." 

Mordin Solus, Mass Effect 2

Best line in the whole game!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bo_7md wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

bo_7md wrote...

Lol, I know That these things might not be possible but I'm bringing up that it has precedence in the series. It's a SCI-FI so as long as they can come up with some glued up science reason its ok I guess. See starwars, SG1, Firefly, Startrek, BSG..etc...etc.

Might? Anyway, ME has always tried hard to keep things as scientifically accurate as possible. Sometimes you have to make stuff up in sci-fi, but for the most part they try to keep it reasonably believable. More importantly, no it doesn't have precedence. Shepard was in protective suit, he was outside the Normandy when it blew up rather than in it, Alchera has less atmospheric pressure and gravity than Earth, and it still took 2 years of still unexplained science to bring him back from what was basically a puddle of meat and a completely dead brain.

Yeah exactly, try comparing that to a onboard explosion on the Citadel, then reentry without protective suit, before impact on a plnaet with higher gravity.

There is no iffs or buts here, no possibilities even with the Citadel wreckage supposedly shielding him, he would be dead and amonut of Lazrus would be able to bring him back. And he most certainly would not take a deep breath like he is still alive.

Yeah, I mentioned that i think the citadel is still in space so even if I assume this is correct, and they can't come up with a reason like emergency shielding It wouldn't matter as I think the citadel is still in place. Again the concrete scene doesn't mae sense in London too even if for continuity reasons. i.e you show up wearing something then the next scene you are wearing something else.

rubble appearing out of nowhere all around him ?

Harbingers beam? We saw it tear through armored assult vehicles, it probably tore up the ground creating the ruble Shepard can be seen lying in in the Breathing scene.

And there is one good reason there would be no emergency shielding or gravity with the Citadel exploding and turned into rubble...where should the power for such thinsg come from? Unless by some miracle there is still an active powerline between a generator and the area where Shepard is and none of it was damaged at all in the explosion, no shidling of any kind is possible.

And try thinking of the odds of that happening if you want a leap of logic.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 mars 2012 - 01:01 .