57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Stigweird85]

Are the colours in the picture of the galaxy significant in any way?

[ContraMan]

Ok. I'm just going to say this outright. Nickelback in the ending of my ME3 game (from pages earlier) would cause me to destroy my computer, quit my job and make a bee line for BioWare's main offices to tear the building down with my bare hands. Adding Nickelback to anything is automatically guaranteeing its worthlessness.

I'd take the current endings as real over a cameo by that wretched excuse of a musical abortion.

Anyhoo, I'll get off my rant and get into what I've been thinking about:

I've finished the game again and have noticed pros and cons for our beloved IDT.

One of the things I have considered in regards to Harbinger leaving deals with the fact that the amassed navy in Earth's orbit and the arrival of the Crucible still provides a considerable threat. The machine could very well have believed that Shepard had been killed by his beam and he was returning to the main fight to destroy the Crucible.

The ending still doesn't sit right with me but this provides a valid reason for Harbinger leaving. Hammer retreats after the frontline group is destroyed (as per what Major Cooke says.)

I'm a proponent of IDT, but there are valid and logical things to consider on some of these things.

I have also considered other things but nothing amazing comes to mind. I remember the capacitor plates but those were on the Citadel and not on the Crucible (where the Shadow Broker ship parts would be.)

One major thing I considered after looking at final war assets (I got a score of 7230) was the final "addition" to the Crucible after attacking Cronos Station: the Reaper heart.

The Crucible has, as part of it, a REAPER HEART! A MAJOR piece of Reaper tech is part of the thing that will be used to defeat them. Considering what Reaper tech can do to others, does anyone else find it interesting and odd that they would use this?

This stands out prominently to me. A dead reaper "still dreams" as we find out from Dr. Chandana's staff in ME2.

[MadRabbit999]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Martukis wrote...

 N00bsauce posted this image about twenty/thirty pages ago:


Remind you of something? See, the color burst seems to originate in the Viper Nebula, the system with the alpha relay, the one destroyed in Arrival. Seems awfully odd to me.

 Also, all endings destroy the relays, as far as I know.

Damn...the Riddler made that picture, didn't he? It looks somehow like a qestionmark!

I'm getting too involved in this, I'm afraid...

Damn it, all these clues are making my brain hurt.

To be honest, if you look a the last scene... it is barely visible to see from where the first explosion is originating, and if they chose to do it from the middle of the galaxy, you wouldn't have noticed it at all because of the excessive amount of light.

OR

They simply did not think people would care so much for accuracy...

[Stigweird85]

MasterDracoStoc wrote...

Have I missed anything important since page 993?

Just somebody found a codex entry about a billionaire volus who claimed a planet after instructions from a ghostly being to search for some writing to survive a war against "devil machines"

[njfluffy19]

BeerQueen79 wrote...

Apologies if this has already been pointed out, there's already been a ton written on this subject, but I also believe IDT is the truth for the ending. After the mission where Miranda's father is killed, I talked with Joker and EDI. It's possible this conversation could occur earlier, it just didn't for me. Anyway, I noted the following. 1) Joker makes a comment regarding ITM's "creepy" eyes. Knowing how the theory of changing eyes flows into ITD, perhaps this was a hint from Bioware "just in case you missed it, pay attention to the eyes." I'm also curious of why Joker would make that comment because I'm not even sure he has ever met TIM - but I certainly could be wrong in that regard.

Also, more importantly, in the conversation with EDI she states that she would rather cease to exist than be reprogrammed by the reapers, which she sees as the inevitable consequence of her capture by the reapers. She's in effect giving you "permission" to choose destroy. There is a whole conversation that sometimes merely "surviving" is not the best possible option, and she says she's going to modify some of her preservation codes. She also says something to the effect that continuation of organic life is more important than AI life. Wish I had written that part down. Anyway, it really struck me last night as I was playing because I know one of the biggest downers about choosing destroy was the destruction of the Geth/EDI element. But if it's all not real, and just part of IDT, the reapers are just playing on your emotions not to destroy them because destroying them also destroys your friends.

Yeah, good points. EDI's mention of adjusting her self preservation programming is a good hint.

I think we all believe they make destroy to appear as the "renegade" option that screws over your friends and crushes everything you worked hard to accomplish (helping the Geth become individuals rather than the consensus). People argue "well if Shep is indoctrinated, then why even give him/her the option of destroy?" To that, I say they could not completely take over Shepard's mind. They are trying to convert him/her. If they had total control of Shepard, they wouldn't even give him/her a choice. Part of the choices are Shepard's subconscious and knowledge from experience-- hence why we see a flash of Anderson headed for destroy and TIM headed for Control despite their obvious changes of the position in the paragon/renegade dialogue wheel we have become accustom to over the years of playing Mass Effect.

This is also why I believe they have a mixture of voices in the Child's vocals (Femshep/Broshep/Harby).

[MasterDracoStoc]

@ContraMan I also thought it was weird someone decided to throw parts of a dead Reaper into a Reaper killing mission. Indoc. Theory states that everything AFTER the laser is a dream, and so Shepard could not have been in the Crucible yet. That means Shepard would be unaffected if the Reaper Heart was still capable of indoctrinating.

[ContraMan]

@MasterDracoStoc

True enough on one IDT. Remember there's also the other hypothesis that indoctrination begins at the arrival of Starchild...

In fact it could make even more sense at this point if the indoctrination was not done by Harbinger but by the Reaper heart (fueled by the human goo) as it takes on the form of a child. Granted, it would be a pass-off from Harbinger if it was represented by the child the entire game to that point but sure as hell would make more sense than SPACE MAGIC.

Probably grasping for emergency induction ports, but even excluding these things IDT remains a more sound explanation than the one we are "provided" at this point.

Modifié par ContraMan, 29 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[benben84]

ContraMan wrote...

One major thing I considered after looking at final war assets (I got a score of 7230) was the final "addition" to the Crucible after attacking Cronos Station: the Reaper heart.

The Crucible has, as part of it, a REAPER HEART! A MAJOR piece of Reaper tech is part of the thing that will be used to defeat them. Considering what Reaper tech can do to others, does anyone else find it interesting and odd that they would use this?

This stands out prominently to me. A dead reaper "still dreams" as we find out from Dr. Chandana's staff in ME2.

I believe you get the reaper heart if the Collector base was saved, if you destroyed the collector base you get the reapers brain.  I believe I read this in a wiki page and the reaper brain is worth more war asset points too.

[njfluffy19]

benben84 wrote...

ContraMan wrote...

One major thing I considered after looking at final war assets (I got a score of 7230) was the final "addition" to the Crucible after attacking Cronos Station: the Reaper heart.

The Crucible has, as part of it, a REAPER HEART! A MAJOR piece of Reaper tech is part of the thing that will be used to defeat them. Considering what Reaper tech can do to others, does anyone else find it interesting and odd that they would use this?

This stands out prominently to me. A dead reaper "still dreams" as we find out from Dr. Chandana's staff in ME2.

I believe you get the reaper heart if the Collector base was saved, if you destroyed the collector base you get the reapers brain.  I believe I read this in a wiki page and the reaper brain is worth more war asset points too.

That doesn't even make sense. How is it that saving the base only gets you the heart, whereas blowing it up gets you the brain? If you blew it up you should not nothing. <_<

[n00bsauce2010]

benben84 wrote...

ContraMan wrote...

One major thing I considered after looking at final war assets (I got a score of 7230) was the final "addition" to the Crucible after attacking Cronos Station: the Reaper heart.

The Crucible has, as part of it, a REAPER HEART! A MAJOR piece of Reaper tech is part of the thing that will be used to defeat them. Considering what Reaper tech can do to others, does anyone else find it interesting and odd that they would use this?

This stands out prominently to me. A dead reaper "still dreams" as we find out from Dr. Chandana's staff in ME2.

I believe you get the reaper heart if the Collector base was saved, if you destroyed the collector base you get the reapers brain.  I believe I read this in a wiki page and the reaper brain is worth more war asset points too.

Ok. I'm confused about the reaper brain/heart thing. What does it entail? Is this speculation for the IDT or against it?

Also.. a dead reaper still dreams. The derelect reaper still indoctrinated people.. even though it was "dead" the same with the leviathin of dis.

Modifié par n00bsauce2010, 29 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Stigweird85]

unless the explosion destroys absolutly everything and obliterates it to the smallest molecule then it is possible that some debris escaped the explosion.

[cyborg2501]

benben84 wrote...

ContraMan wrote...

One major thing I considered after looking at final war assets (I got a score of 7230) was the final "addition" to the Crucible after attacking Cronos Station: the Reaper heart.

The Crucible has, as part of it, a REAPER HEART! A MAJOR piece of Reaper tech is part of the thing that will be used to defeat them. Considering what Reaper tech can do to others, does anyone else find it interesting and odd that they would use this?

This stands out prominently to me. A dead reaper "still dreams" as we find out from Dr. Chandana's staff in ME2.

I believe you get the reaper heart if the Collector base was saved, if you destroyed the collector base you get the reapers brain.  I believe I read this in a wiki page and the reaper brain is worth more war asset points too.

I think it's the other way around

[n00bsauce2010]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

benben84 wrote...

ContraMan wrote...

One major thing I considered after looking at final war assets (I got a score of 7230) was the final "addition" to the Crucible after attacking Cronos Station: the Reaper heart.

The Crucible has, as part of it, a REAPER HEART! A MAJOR piece of Reaper tech is part of the thing that will be used to defeat them. Considering what Reaper tech can do to others, does anyone else find it interesting and odd that they would use this?

This stands out prominently to me. A dead reaper "still dreams" as we find out from Dr. Chandana's staff in ME2.

I believe you get the reaper heart if the Collector base was saved, if you destroyed the collector base you get the reapers brain.  I believe I read this in a wiki page and the reaper brain is worth more war asset points too.

Ok. I'm confused about the reaper brain/heart thing. What does it entail? Is this speculation for the IDT or against it?

Also.. a dead reaper still dreams. The derelect reaper still indoctrinated people.. even though it was "dead" the same with the leviathin of dis.

I want to bump this before it gets lost. But what does the brain/heart have to do with anything? Can someone enlighten me? I'm confused on this idea.

[Sire Styx]

I heard saving the base gets the brain and higher war assets.
Destruction gets the heart and lower war assets.
Supposedly, the brain lowers the EMS needed for a good control ending.

[benben84]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I want to bump this before it gets lost. But what does the brain/heart have to do with anything? Can someone enlighten me? I'm confused on this idea.

I don't think it has anything to do with it.  I was just stating what I had found in regards to the previous comment on the heart.  I wanted to make sure everyone knew about the brain as well, appears I had it backwards though.

According to wiki the brain is received when base is NOT destroyed and heart is received when you destroy it.

[cyborg2501]

I wonder if the fact that the reaper heart/brain came from a human reaper larva has any significance. I.E. maybe it's even more efficient at indoctrinating humans because it's built from them, or it effects them in a slightly different way than other species?

[anmiro]

People are over sipmlifying when they say its all a dream. Indoctrination has been a major theme from the moment that we are introduced to Saren on Eden Prime and he shoots his friend Nihlus. The end of ME3 is about the battle for Shepards mind and ultimately the Reapers attempt to influence the final choice that we get to make.

Personally, I loved 99% of this game. The 1% that I was not happy with was the final cut scene, 'not' the the final choice or the moments leading up to it. The Final cutscene should have offerred more closure, but that has nothing to do with indoctrination theory.

Indoctrination theory as I interpret it, does not alter the final choice that Shepard has to make, it simply points out that Shepard is not in is his right mind becuase the Reapers are trying to control him. Out of the the three choices, only one results in the destrucction of the Reapers and it is the only ending that shows Shepard waking up and taking a breath (because the Reapers have lost their hold on him).

The Unanswered Questions:
Neither the indoctrination theory or the literal interpretation of the ending address other major issues with the end of the game, such as: Has the destruction of the mass relays destroyed more life than Reapers would have? Why did Joker and your crew leave the Sol system in the midde of the battle? Where is Joker going and where has he crashed? We clearly see the Citadel being destroyed, so where is Shepard when we see him wake up? If he is still on earth, than how was he interracting with the crucible?

I get that people have a problem with the end of the game, so do I, but in my opinion this is a seprate issue from the merit of indoctrination theory.

Modifié par anmiro, 29 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[cyborg2501]

Anyone else think it was foolish of them to take the Reaper heart and use it to power the Crucible? Seems like a BAD IDEA

[IronSabbath88]

Well if saving the base gets you only the control option, that's even more evidence to me as to why the IDT is true. Saving the base is obviously a mostly renegade option. You gave TIM that information, and the fact that it's related to control (the supposed renegade option in the final choice) that speaks volumes to me.

[Martukis]

cyborg2501 wrote...

Anyone else think it was foolish of them to take the Reaper heart and use it to power the Crucible? Seems like a BAD IDEA

 True, but the crucible is powered by the exotic and not fully understood dark energy, which makes it difficult to build an efficient dark energy source - which makes the heart good. Using the brain makes sense, as it probably aids in TIMs control methods of reapers and such. But I think it might also play into IDT - if the base is preserved, I am pretty sure that cerberus reports regarding control experiments are more optimistic, which Shep hears about. This means, in his mind, he is probably more convinced of a control option. With the base destroyed and a powerful, reaper-made dark energy source hooked into the crucible, it probably makes Shep more optimistic regarding the crucible being capable of the effect hoped for.

[DreamTension]

anmiro wrote...

People are over sipmlifying when they say its all a dream. Indoctrination has been a major theme from the moment that we are introduced to Saren on Eden Prime and he shoots his friend Nihlus. The end of ME3 is about the battle for Shepards mind and ultimately the Reapers attempt to influence the final choice that we get to make.

Personally, I loved 99% of this game. The 1% that I was not happy with was the final cut scene, 'not' the the final choice or the moments leading up to it. The Final cutscene should have offerred more closure, but that has nothing to do with indoctrination theory.

Indoctrination theory as I interpret it, does not alter the final choice that Shepard has to make, it simply points out that Shepard is not in is his right mind becuase the Reapers are trying to control him. Out of the the three choices, only one results in the destrucction of the Reapers and it is the only ending that shows Shepard waking up and taking a breath (because the Reapers have lost their hold on him).

The Unanswered Questions:
Neither the indoctrination theory or the literal interpretation of the ending address other major issues with the end of the game, such as: Has the destruction of the mass relays destroyed more life than Reapers would have? Why did Joker and your crew leave the Sol system in the midde of the battle? Where is Joker going and where has he crashed? We clearly see the Citadel being destroyed, so where is Shepard when we see him wake up? If he is still on earth, than how was he interracting with the crucible?

I get that people have a problem with the end of the game, so do I, but in my opinion this is a seprate issue from the merit of indoctrination theory.

Indoctrination Theory is assuming that Shepard is under the indoctrination and is trying to fight it off either 1) right after Harbinger's beam or 2) at the elevator ride (right before star child).  More supporting evidence has the Indoctrination process starting right after the beam (basically when all gameplay becomes surreal).
So those unanswered questions are actually not relevant because none of that was real; it was his mind trying to fight off the ID and if he fails (control/synthesis) he's fully under indoctrination so he's seeing what his mind wants.


Yeah, it's become obvious that the naysayers are either not reading/understanding what the Indoctrination Theory is stating or they ignoring it to bend/distort it so they can bash it.

[Flapperrr]

...

Modifié par Flapperrr, 29 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[DreamTension]

"All described below - only a fruit of the imagination of the unknown author, this text has no intentions someone to offend or on something to provoke."

That doesn't give you the right to make these vulgar predictions. Can we keep it civil?

My two cents.

Modifié par DreamTension, 29 mars 2012 - 04:29 .