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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#25476
schneeland

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

I wonder if this is true and when BioWare announces it, they'll mention this thread and the part of their fanbase that figured this out.

You know, give us props... and maybe something little for free for being so smart. xD


Well, if anything, most apprecitation should go to Bryne and the guy who did the IT video. To be honest, I noticed that something was off with the end and the whole boy-thing made me sceptical, but I didn't think of Indoc right away. Kind of only jumped the bandwaggon as it gained momentum.

#25477
Vox Draco

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waldstr18 wrote...

i just hope for a clear answer. something like:

fan: was it indoctrination and was it planned through the whole game?
bioware: no, and no.


fan: was it indoctrination and was it planned through the whole game?
bioware: well, all you need is to play the newly released DLC...its 2000 Bioware points, next questions!

#25478
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Vox Draco wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

i just hope for a clear answer. something like:

fan: was it indoctrination and was it planned through the whole game?
bioware: no, and no.


fan: was it indoctrination and was it planned through the whole game?
bioware: well, all you need is to play the newly released DLC...its 2000 Bioware points, next questions!


Yes I have a question, how fast can you run?

Man I would love to see their faces if someone said that ^_^

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 mars 2012 - 08:47 .


#25479
LOST SPARTANJLC

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 Bioware created a fourth option today , they donated the cupcakes to kids in need and kept the messages from the Cupcakers.:D

#25480
Earthborn_Shepard

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WHAT

I would have eaten them myself. Yes, all 500.

#25481
schneeland

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at once ;)

#25482
n00bsauce2010

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They only ate the red ones. If they at the green/blue ones then they are indoctrinated by EA

#25483
Mondino

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n00bsauce2010 wrote...

They only ate the red ones. If they at the green/blue ones then they are indoctrinated by EA


This, exactly my thoughs xD

#25484
LOST SPARTANJLC

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Something about most of the staff away on vacation , so they decided to donate them.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 29 mars 2012 - 08:55 .


#25485
Earthborn_Shepard

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what.. that would have made even more per head!

I mean I'm all for paragon but some renegade interrupts you have to take!

Modifié par Earthborn_Shepard, 29 mars 2012 - 08:55 .


#25486
Dwailing

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LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Something about most of the staff away on vacation , to they decided to donate them.


Vacation?  VACATION!?  At a time like this!!!  Well, maybe they figured that this way the devs wouldn't accidentally spill the beans on Twitter.

#25487
LOST SPARTANJLC

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Dwailing wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Something about most of the staff away on vacation , to they decided to donate them.


Vacation?  VACATION!?  At a time like this!!!  Well, maybe they figured that this way the devs wouldn't accidentally spill the beans on Twitter.


Or were heading for an Asura's Wrath type of situation except not all the true ending content can be found locked on a disc like Capcom.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 29 mars 2012 - 09:01 .


#25488
benben84

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Dwailing wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Something about most of the staff away on vacation , to they decided to donate them.


Vacation?  VACATION!?  At a time like this!!!  Well, maybe they figured that this way the devs wouldn't accidentally spill the beans on Twitter.


Some dude in Jamaica that cannot speak clear English knows the true ending though! lol

#25489
LOST SPARTANJLC

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benben84 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Something about most of the staff away on vacation , to they decided to donate them.


Vacation?  VACATION!?  At a time like this!!!  Well, maybe they figured that this way the devs wouldn't accidentally spill the beans on Twitter.


Some dude in Jamaica that cannot speak clear English knows the true ending though! lol


EA reapers might try to find him:whistle:

#25490
khankar

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Did anyone else notice that Shepard could barely walk at the end but as soon as he starts shooting the power conduit in the Destroy ending, he suddenly gets his strength back and he's able to walk upright as though he never got injured...

Something similar happens with the Synthesis ending. He's able to run into the beam whereas seconds earlier he could barely stand....

#25491
lost1nceaga1n

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I believe this theory. One of the clearest examples of how Sheperd could be indoctrinated is when he is talking to the child/light being/reaper. One second you are talking the Illusive Man and convincing him that he is controlled by the Reaper (Paragon Choice) and he realized he is and kills himself. The next second you're saying that the Illusive Man was right. Uh... something doesn't add up here.
If you follow BioWare's history - you'll know they're known for deceiving their players. KOTOR and Jade Empire both tricked their players into thinking one thing and revealing something else. This could be the greatest reveal in gaming history if this theory is true.

#25492
cyborg2501

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n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Ravel1992 wrote...

Anyone notice that:

ME3 DVD1(~8GB) + DVD2(~6GB) = ~14GB and after instal ME3 have only 9,95 GB.
I checked a few other games I have and they ALWAYS take more space after instal.

Interesting. Interesting.


Yeah. We've been contemplating this for a while. It would be a smart move if the endings were on the game all along. And they were able to be unlocked by a patch or something.

Now is that on the pc version or the xbox360?

Ps3 is already ruled out since blu-rays can hold like 25gb and also the game doesn't actually install on the hard drive (I have a ps3 and the game so I know)




I doubt the full ending is on the disc - much like the entirety of From Ashes DLC wasn't on the disc, but part of it was. We'd likely have a download/unlock scenario. This would be smart for several reasons, 1) the download would be smaller  and 2) It would prove that they had this in the works from the get-go

#25493
LOST SPARTANJLC

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lost1nceaga1n wrote...

I believe this theory. One of the clearest examples of how Sheperd could be indoctrinated is when he is talking to the child/light being/reaper. One second you are talking the Illusive Man and convincing him that he is controlled by the Reaper (Paragon Choice) and he realized he is and kills himself. The next second you're saying that the Illusive Man was right. Uh... something doesn't add up here.
If you follow BioWare's history - you'll know they're known for deceiving their players. KOTOR and Jade Empire both tricked their players into thinking one thing and revealing something else. This could be the greatest reveal in gaming history if this theory is true.


Yeah I think that's all it really was in his head.Harbinger/Ghost Child has kind of forced Shepard to accepting one logical conclusion based off the consequences.Destroy is bad for the reapers , while the other two are wins one way or another in the end.

#25494
LOST SPARTANJLC

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cyborg2501 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Ravel1992 wrote...

Anyone notice that:

ME3 DVD1(~8GB) + DVD2(~6GB) = ~14GB and after instal ME3 have only 9,95 GB.
I checked a few other games I have and they ALWAYS take more space after instal.

Interesting. Interesting.


Yeah. We've been contemplating this for a while. It would be a smart move if the endings were on the game all along. And they were able to be unlocked by a patch or something.

Now is that on the pc version or the xbox360?

Ps3 is already ruled out since blu-rays can hold like 25gb and also the game doesn't actually install on the hard drive (I have a ps3 and the game so I know)




I doubt the full ending is on the disc - much like the entirety of From Ashes DLC wasn't on the disc, but part of it was. We'd likely have a download/unlock scenario. This would be smart for several reasons, 1) the download would be smaller  and 2) It would prove that they had this in the works from the get-go



I also think like From The Ashes , it will be some hundred megabytes/gig that will complete the other half of the content already on disc.

#25495
Quamzin

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This thread makes a great point, that I don't know has been shared yet here. The images and discussion have led me to believe the ending takes place inside Harbinger, not the Citadel.

It has been established numerous times in the ME series that indoctrination is strongest inside a Reaper. It's why Sovereign wanted Saren to use him as a flagship, and why the Cerberus kids went extra nuts inside the derelict Reaper. By keeping the super-important thralls indoors, the Reaper can slow-cook the indoctrination in a controlled, deceptive environment.

So it makes quite a bit of sense that Harbinger would touch down on Earth to scoop up Shepard, rather than destroy him. He is the galaxy's biggest renegade, or paragon, or both. Changing his mind without breaking it would be a sweet deal.

Taking it a step further, if he can at least convince Shepard the battle is over, Shepard might come over the comm and SAY so. That would do a good job of demoralizing and confusing the ground forces, especially if they realized the signal was coming from inside Harbinger (dum dum dum).

This could also explain why high EMS affects the ending. It means you had enough forces to pummel the crap out of Harbinger, and you are waking up in his wreckage.

I know I'm a fool for participating in this "Speculation for Everyone" social game. In that spirit, here's my foolish tl;dr interpretation of Indoc Theory, for you to quickly scroll past and ignore:


The Illusive Man helps the Reapers relocate the Citadel to Earth. Like Saren and Sovereign (BFFs), Harbinger convinces the Illusive Man that he's in control, and that the Illusive Man should use him as his flagship.

Harbinger notices you heading for the transport beam, much like the Eye of Sauron seeing Frodo slip on the ring in Mt. Doom. He makes a Nazgul-tastic beeline for your assault. TIM helps him identify you and Anderson on the battlefield, and he sucks you both up into his own transport beam, into his superstructure.

The slow molasses walk after the screen goes white is a buffer--Harbinger giving himself time to fire up the "holodeck", and shift the physicality of his superstructure to match. He's also convincing you and Anderson that you made it to the Citadel beam. You didn't.

Inside Harbinger, the Illusive Man is hanging out in the command center, waiting for you. Harbinger puts a carrot on a stick, and walks you and Anderson there in a straight line, showing you the same stuff. The circular command center is reminiscent of the office in the Cerberus Base--tailored to TIM's tastes, much as Saren's throne was tailored to his tastes on Sovereign.

You argue with TIM. Harbinger keeps things on a tight leash. The Illusive Man forces you to fire your gun, apparently at Anderson's stomach. However, there isn't any evidence of a bullet wound on Anderson. Anderson never really clutches the area in pain, either.

Paragon/Renegade options determine whether the Illusive Man redeems himself, and whether or not Anderson lives. If Anderson lives, it is revealed that Shepard firing on Anderson was an illusion--TIM actually forced Shepard to shoot himself, and Shepard has a nice, bloody wound to match. Anderson is just KO'd from exhaustion.

But just as killing Saren didn't stop Sovereign, killing TIM doesn't stop Harbinger. He changes his angle, and fires up the Starchild VI--something he's been working on since Shepard left Earth.

This is the last act of a desperate cuttlefish, because back on Earth, if your EMS is solid, your squadmates are pummeling the crap out of Harbinger. Harbinger's hoping you choose control (TIM) or synthesis (Saren), or even that you just sit there and refuse to decide. He offers a destroy option, but leverages the Geth against you--a race that recently trusted you enough to bring you inside their consensus, their existence, to prove to you that not all synthetics are jerks. Some of them actually, shockingly, respect organics, rather than wanting to destroy them. Harbinger and kids have been noodling around in the consensus as well, so they know this information will make you hesitate.

So you pick a color, and you get to see how Shepard's interprets the outcome of the fantasy choices Harbinger laid out for him. Without any other context, I think we've all agreed it's pretty lame. However...

...this has nothing to do with the battle raging out in the real world. That's where EMS should/will factor in. I believe that is the message the game is trying to get across... you bring the galaxy together, but in the end, Commander Shepard has troubles of his own. He can't win this war for them, but he's spent the whole game teaching them how to do it.

The snippet of Shepard in the rubble is based on EMS, because with enough EMS, your forces rout the Reapers. If you also resisted Starchild's disingenuous assertions, you wake up in a pile of busted Harbinger guts.

One last thought: The ending of ME3 reminds me of the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park... we were missing some portions of the DNA, so we stuck in some Indoctrination Theory DNA. We still ended up with defective dinosaurs. Darn.

Modifié par Quamzin, 29 mars 2012 - 09:17 .


#25496
AtlasMickey

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

I wonder if this is true and when BioWare announces it, they'll mention this thread and the part of their fanbase that figured this out.

You know, give us props... and maybe something little for free for being so smart. xD

I've been staying away from this thread because I imagined it to be filled with self-congratulating delusions. My imagination is so confirmed, I wonder if maybe it's real. Too bad. It is.

#25497
DreamTension

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This...just makes too much sense

#25498
Topsider

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khankar wrote...

Did anyone else notice that Shepard could barely walk at the end but as soon as he starts shooting the power conduit in the Destroy ending, he suddenly gets his strength back and he's able to walk upright as though he never got injured...

Something similar happens with the Synthesis ending. He's able to run into the beam whereas seconds earlier he could barely stand....


It's for dramatic effect, don't read too much into it. It shows that Shepard is committed to the final action.
The indoc theory is making people see things. Ironic isn't it.

#25499
byne

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AtlasMickey wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I wonder if this is true and when BioWare announces it, they'll mention this thread and the part of their fanbase that figured this out.

You know, give us props... and maybe something little for free for being so smart. xD

I've been staying away from this thread because I imagined it to be filled with self-congratulating delusions. My imagination is so confirmed, I wonder if maybe it's real. Too bad. It is.


>claims thread is full of self-congratulation
>posts in thread solely for purposes of self-congratulation

I dont even

Modifié par byne, 29 mars 2012 - 09:20 .


#25500
Golferguy758

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AtlasMickey wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I wonder if this is true and when BioWare announces it, they'll mention this thread and the part of their fanbase that figured this out.

You know, give us props... and maybe something little for free for being so smart. xD

I've been staying away from this thread because I imagined it to be filled with self-congratulating delusions. My imagination is so confirmed, I wonder if maybe it's real. Too bad. It is.


The irony. It hurts.