57139 réponses à ce sujet

[llbountyhunter]

IsaacShep wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Not really, then it would be to obvious for you and Shepard the danger still hasn't passed..... its supposed to make you bring your guard down and think the danger has passed- you know like a dream within an dream: you think your safe- then bam! You just doomed the entire human race.

So the indoctrination has to be so minimal not even whispers and veins will appear. So this indoctrination won't have any effect, such subtle indoctrination would take months to give any effect. Again, Reapers don't have time to try the subtle route with Shep when he's about to wipe them in 5 minutes

But Shepard's mind is still fighting- that's why you get Anderson and the whispers- its a delicate mind battle between ID and Shepard, so get some hints but nothing to obvious....

[Mike Aus]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Not really, then it would be to obvious for you and Shepard the danger still hasn't passed..... its supposed to make you bring your guard down and think the danger has passed- you know like a dream within an dream: you think your safe- then bam! You just doomed the entire human race.

So the indoctrination has to be so minimal not even whispers and veins will appear. So this indoctrination won't have any effect, such subtle indoctrination would take months to give any effect. Again, Reapers don't have time to try the subtle route with Shep when he's about to wipe them in 5 minutes

Dude, I pretty much think that it has already been established that the indoctrination has started way back. Plus, I think Harbringer has a personal thing going with Shepard. Am I the only one who noticed?

I noticed too and I pointed it out above that it's been going on for a while.

I think Harbinger has the hots for Shepard...

[waldstr18]

@thomas

another fine point, havent thought about the no decision option. but that would really suck for the story only players. no... i really dont think so.

the ending has nothing to do with game difficulty or how good you shoot everyones head off their shoulders. so the story guys are fine. the action guys on the other hand, i dont think that the predecided path leads you to the "only one choice" ending. i just cant see it. and since i dont think that either one of them is represented in this forum, i doubt you will be able to convince me with that line of thought.

about the girls. im studying in ex **** germany, the girls are... for the most part, very good looking, but are pretty easily singled out with the question: what is inception? everyone has seen the movie, of course, but what inception is in the movie... you wouldnt believe what answers i get.

[Slaiyer]

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

waldstr you have posted absolute dog **** as for why you think IT is wrong, when anyone asks you you just say you've said it already, but the fact is you haven't. You are either an astronomical idiot, or an astronomical douche to troll on a thread for a video game.

Your insults are not welcome nor called for.

[Hunter_Wolf]

Golferguy758 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

@thomas

thats actually a very good point. i have to hand it to you. yet why wouldnt they let me be indoctrinated, if they let me die in the second game? actually i would really appreciate it if im allowed to fail. and in the next mass effect game they can assume i didnt. to give me only the canon ending in this game just so its canon... i dont like it. but i see your point. still im not conviced.

as for your studyies: you crazy? first law now chemical engineering? why would anyone volluntarily choose that? just to build your own me core?

see.. im studying applied computer science, cause at the orientation thingy i said i want the courses with the most virgins in it. but unfortunately i failed to say "female" virgins. i have been sitting in the sausage warehouse for 4 years now.. hopefully im done soon. but i think im better off than you are....

I'd imagine that if you chose green or blue you'd play an "indoctrinated" Shepard for the last bit of the game. That'd be pretty cool if you ended up fighting your former allies or whatever

Or you play the role of a squadmate fighting your Shepard as a sub boss. And it's up to the player to get Shepard to come to reason and realization of what's happening. For my Shepard this wont be the problem, he'd resist regardless but the variety in how the ending could turn out would definitely be interesting for those going for the ultra bad ending.

[Sire Styx]

By the way, can anyone confirm this or tell me where it says it:

I read something where the reapers indoctrinate you if you choose to do something what they want? It's hard to explain, but it's like they give you two options (without you knowing) and if you choose the wrong one, that means you've submitted to idoctrination. I'm not on about the ending btw, I don't know if this was out of a book or jsut something someone made up. So if anyone knows, please say

[yagaelvin]

Just have to add here that the fact that people are actually complaining that Bioware actually donated the cupcakes to a local shelter is mind boggling

[shepskisaac]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

But that doesn't explain how he's able to control a person. It's beyond the realm of possibility. He and Henry were trying to figure out a way to control husks and the like.

Plus, if you remember the indoctrination codex entry, it says that you can be made to view the reaper itself with superstitious awe. So if the starchild WAS infact Harbinger and it was yet another attempt to completley control Shepard, there's a good chance he would be oblivious to it.

No, they were also extensively studying indoctrination process. And how to control the Reapers. Listen to Henry's notes. To me it's very clear, after the procedure TIM gain some of Reapers' abilities and showcases them to Shep in the final confrontation.

IronSabbath88 wrote...
You could argue that maybe Shepard had reaper tech implanted which made it easy, but that doesn't explain how he was able to do the same thing to Anderson.

Rapid indoctrination? He wasn't able to make Anderson do anything, only stop him from moving unlike with Shep where he was also able to make Shep shot Anderson. He's indoctrinating them both and showcasing them Reaper powers.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[IronSabbath88]

yagaelvin wrote...

Just have to add here that the fact that people are actually complaining that Bioware actually donated the cupcakes to a local shelter is mind boggling

For real, but I think we've established that there are some disturbed people in these forums.

[Baal Sagoth]

Either.Ardrey wrote...

As much as I agree with  a lot of indoc. theory and what you've countered, and as much as I wish 5 were true, I'd defend (lean more towards) waldstr's view more for one main reason. As much as I'd love for a game to engage us in such critical thinking, especially from a Bioware game, Bioware specifically stated that they wanted to expand the audience for Mass Effect. That audience is namely the CoD/Battlefield people, and even though there are some highly intelligent people that love those series, the fact remains that there are going to be a lot of less critically minded folks along for the ride. As I said, it would be amazing if Bioware still wanted to do critical thinking despite their added audience, but it's the one thing that prevents me from being a hardcore indoc. believer. I'm more of a wait-and-see kind of person, but the wait 'til PAX East is killing me.

Bullseye!

People with such low EMS to get one or two choices are rushers, new audience from COD/BF3 as You said. There is no ME fan who could get such low EMS (aside those who do it for purpose like in ME2). So basically if someone got low EMS he actually didn't care about game (plot, quests etc.). He just done some pew-pew and some talking. Those players are immune to indoctrination by default, they wont appreciate or fully experience the trick.

So it really doesn't matter how many choices they got or what they picked. If IDT turns to be true they will continue with what they choosen (some will say it was cool other that it was lame) they will get some more pew-pew and actual ending.

Only die hard ME fans can fully experience indoctrination trick. After all talking about personal story, personal Shep and connection with him they will fully realize that in final scene that all was taken from them. If they didnt't notice that what more compelling evidence they need to see that Shep and they themselves were indoctrinated?

And if IDT turns to be false... Who cares about people screaming "I told you!"? No one will give a damn. It isn't our fault (well it is) that there are some players who want something original, unexpected and astonishingly different from video games. Especially now when mainstream video game market is so stagnant, predictable and games are so similar to each other.

[IronSabbath88]

IsaacShep wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

But that doesn't explain how he's able to control a person. It's beyond the realm of possibility. He and Henry were trying to figure out a way to control husks and the like.

You could argue that maybe Shepard had reaper tech implanted which made it easy, but that doesn't explain how he was able to do the same thing to Anderson.

Plus, if you remember the indoctrination codex entry, it says that you can be made to view the reaper itself with superstitious awe. So if the starchild WAS infact Harbinger and it was yet another attempt to completley control Shepard, there's a good chance he would be oblivious to it.

No, they were also extensively studying indoctrination process. And how to control the Reapers. Listen to Henry's notes. To me it's very clear, after the procedure TIM gain some of Reapers' abilities and showcases them to Shep in the final confrontation.

Then why turn all the people to husks then? Why not just keep them human to see if it works?

What they were researching was how to control THE HUSKS. Yes, they were also working on the indoctrination process, but who's to say that's so they could make sure they could fight it?

There's no way TIM could have THAT kind of power without being directly influenced by Harbinger. Period.

End of.

[waldstr18]

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

waldstr you have posted absolute dog **** as for why you think IT is wrong, when anyone asks you you just say you've said it already, but the fact is you haven't. You are either an astronomical idiot, or an astronomical douche to troll on a thread for a video game.

thank you, kind sir. i was really worried about not getting my "in your face" moment, with everyone being so nice all of a sudden. but now you have appeared, and now i dont have to feel bad when i capture my victory dance, put in on youtube, and paste it here.

as for the troll comment. i looked it up, and i accept. i really like to be a troll. is there a initiation ceremony, whichs makes me an offical troll, or do i have to get the "professional troll" shirt from zero punctuation?

[Sire Styx]

yagaelvin wrote...

Just have to add here that the fact that people are actually complaining that Bioware actually donated the cupcakes to a local shelter is mind boggling

Lol, I said before there are people who want to complain just to complain.

If bioware refunded us for all the ME3 games we've bought, then donated the rest of their money to charity and then managed to cure all known diseases and make everyone immortal, there would be people complaining about something :|

[shepskisaac]

Mike Aus wrote...

Dude, I pretty much think that it has already been established that the indoctrination has started way back. Plus, I think Harbringer has a personal thing going with Shepard. Am I the only one who noticed?

Why go subtle in the critical moment when Reapers' lives depend on it? This is it, Shep is 1 minute walk away from killing the Reapers, this is the moment to go with rapid indoctrination on him to prevent him from destroying them, not risk subtle indoctrination where he has an option to break free. Especially considering he JUST broke free from much mroe intense indoctrination a few minutes ago

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

Sire Styx wrote...

By the way, can anyone confirm this or tell me where it says it:

I read something where the reapers indoctrinate you if you choose to do something what they want? It's hard to explain, but it's like they give you two options (without you knowing) and if you choose the wrong one, that means you've submitted to idoctrination. I'm not on about the ending btw, I don't know if this was out of a book or jsut something someone made up. So if anyone knows, please say

The simple answer is there is no conclusive data. In ME it was explained as sort of, "I have to do something but not quite sure." And picks up from there. It's all questions at this point because even Saren says, "My saving grace is Sovereign still needs me." and how indoctrination is based on how much the Reaper exerts. Which begs the question, how subtle is subtle and how extreme is the strongest cases.

[Hunter_Wolf]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mike Aus wrote...

Dude, I pretty much think that it has already been established that the indoctrination has started way back. Plus, I think Harbringer has a personal thing going with Shepard. Am I the only one who noticed?

Why go subtle in the critical moment when Reapers' lives depend on it? This is it, Shep is 1 minute walk away from killing the Reapers, this is the moment to go with rapid indoctrination on him to prevent him from destroying them, not risk subtle indoctrination where he has an option to break free. Especially considering he JUST broke free from much mroe intense indoctrination a few minutes ago

He was also knocked unconscious which could provide that window of opportunity when Shepard's will is at it's weakes in Harbingers eyes. But this is  just more speculation.

[llbountyhunter]

IsaacShep wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

But that doesn't explain how he's able to control a person. It's beyond the realm of possibility. He and Henry were trying to figure out a way to control husks and the like.

Plus, if you remember the indoctrination codex entry, it says that you can be made to view the reaper itself with superstitious awe. So if the starchild WAS infact Harbinger and it was yet another attempt to completley control Shepard, there's a good chance he would be oblivious to it.

No, they were also extensively studying indoctrination process. And how to control the Reapers. Listen to Henry's notes. To me it's very clear, after the procedure TIM gain some of Reapers' abilities and showcases them to Shep in the final confrontation.

IronSabbath88 wrote...
You could argue that maybe Shepard had reaper tech implanted which made it easy, but that doesn't explain how he was able to do the same thing to Anderson.

Rapid indoctrination? He wasn't able to make Anderson do anything, only stop him from moving unlike with Shep where he was also able to make Shep shot Anderson. He's indoctrinating them both and showcasing them Reaper powers.

"Rapid indoctrination ". Wow. Surely even you can see how weak the counter arguments supporting the rreal ending are compared to the theory your trying to find flaws in

[Mike Aus]

The part where Shepard says "the defining characteristic of organics is that we make our own choices" is a bit weird... since I saved Legion until he became 'himself', essentially being the same as an organic being.

[Sire Styx]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mike Aus wrote...

Dude, I pretty much think that it has already been established that the indoctrination has started way back. Plus, I think Harbringer has a personal thing going with Shepard. Am I the only one who noticed?

Why go subtle in the critical moment when Reapers' lives depend on it? This is it, Shep is 1 minute walk away from killing the Reapers, this is the moment to go with rapid indoctrination on him to prevent him from destroying them, not risk subtle indoctrination where he has an option to break free. Especially considering he JUST broke free from much mroe intense indoctrination a few minutes ago

Forcing indoctrination onto Shepard is just causing resistance and will likely turn Shep into a mindless husk. Tricking shepard into choosing wrong encounters no resistance.

[shepskisaac]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Then why turn all the people to husks then? Why not just keep them human to see if it works?

they did that. You didn't listen to notes? Only some were turned into husks. Others were turned into shock troops and the rest was indoctrinated.

[waldstr18]

they gave the cup cakes to a shelter?! thats a nice move. no complaints from my side.

but im afraid the shelter is going to start a retake cup cake movement, wanting to change the flavors of the cup cakes. and then there will be a "was it all just to lead to the real meal - appetizer theory" thread on the shelter's kitchen manual.

[yagaelvin]

Sire Styx wrote...

yagaelvin wrote...

Just have to add here that the fact that people are actually complaining that Bioware actually donated the cupcakes to a local shelter is mind boggling

Lol, I said before there are people who want to complain just to complain.

If bioware refunded us for all the ME3 games we've bought, then donated the rest of their money to charity and then managed to cure all known diseases and make everyone immortal, there would be people complaining about something :|

They could never take anymore sick days at work anymore?

[Sire Styx]

IsaacShep wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

But that doesn't explain how he's able to control a person. It's beyond the realm of possibility. He and Henry were trying to figure out a way to control husks and the like.

Plus, if you remember the indoctrination codex entry, it says that you can be made to view the reaper itself with superstitious awe. So if the starchild WAS infact Harbinger and it was yet another attempt to completley control Shepard, there's a good chance he would be oblivious to it.

No, they were also extensively studying indoctrination process. And how to control the Reapers. Listen to Henry's notes. To me it's very clear, after the procedure TIM gain some of Reapers' abilities and showcases them to Shep in the final confrontation.

IronSabbath88 wrote...
You could argue that maybe Shepard had reaper tech implanted which made it easy, but that doesn't explain how he was able to do the same thing to Anderson.

Rapid indoctrination? He wasn't able to make Anderson do anything, only stop him from moving unlike with Shep where he was also able to make Shep shot Anderson. He's indoctrinating them both and showcasing them Reaper powers.

He made shepard shoot anderson? Whats that, like one muscle or something controlling the fingers? A tiny electric charge on the right nerve leading to the finger could make him shoot.

[shepskisaac]

llbountyhunter wrote...

"Rapid indoctrination ". Wow. Surely even you can see how weak the counter arguments supporting the rreal ending are compared to the theory your trying to find flaws in

My theory is weaker? A theory in which TIM indoctrinates/controls Shep and Anderson thanks to implants he got AFTER studying extensively Reaper's ways of indoctrination, control and communication is weaker than a theory in which the entire ending is a complete hallucination? c'mon

[Mike Aus]

Oh, if we assume that Shepard never actually made it to the Citadel (i.e. he was knocked out by Harbinger and the entire last bit is in his mind...) then it almost doesn't matter what type of indoctrination they use.

They just want him indoctrinated as he's an excellent war asset for them. If he dies, so be it. The right most choice is the one where he resists. However he is still in the rubble on Earth, he always is.

The left choice is him failing to resist and them 'assuming control'. Either way, he's screwed and they won.

Lets face it. No matter what choice you make, the Reapers have won at the end of ME3.