57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sire Styx]

Imaging this extreme scenario (very extreme and not meant to be taken literally)

You're walking along the street with all these bags of money you don't want, when all of a sudden some crazy homeless guy jumps out and demands all your money. Obviously you're going to resist that, so you shoot him and carry on.

Then another person pops up and says, well you have 3 choices, you can burn your money to get rid of it, or you can help people by donating it to a charity for homeless people (so that original guy was correct) or give it away to people in the street. Originally you just wanted rid of the money but you find two other options that will actually help people. What you don't realise is that those 2 options don't actually help people, and all the money was diverted to fund terrorist groups.

The first encounter was this really forceful person, so obviously you will resist. The next encounter tricked you into doing something you didn't want.

[waldstr18]

@rifineo, werent you the one who was so amazed by
"you are quite offensive, my new friend, who has numbers in his name"

in other words: you laugh at my jokes == i like you. - im simple minded, remember?

[Gilgamesh117]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

It seems to me that hardly any newcomers read the first page which usually explains most questions and answers that you may have. There should be a disclaimer at top that says read the first page before you post.

They probably didn't want to dig through the wall of text. Kinda like they don't want to look for clues in the game...

Anyone see a pattern here?

Some times I feel like a reaper, but instead of destroying Civilizations every 50,000 years, I just read recycled information every ten pages.

[Hacedor1566]

Ok, IsaacShep. Let's say that TIM can control people. Then... Why he tries to convince Shepard talking? And why he not tries to convince Anderson as well? If he can control Shepard and Anderson, why not, simply, force them to shoot each other? Why the dialog? TIM is already won. If he just needs to kill Shepard and Anderson, and take the control of the Crucible. But no, he start the dialog. Why? It makes no sense.

Please, forgive my horrible grammar, I'm not english native-speaker, so... I do what I can XD

[Dwailing]

Hey, guys. I just saw something strange. For some reason it says that ME3 has just finished downloading. As I am reporting on this from in game, I am certain it is already installed. It's the strangest thing, it says that the full install is 13.8 gigabytes. Isn't that larger than the PC version usually is? I might have to go back to the game before the Cerberus Base and retry the endings if you all think it would be worth it.

[Slaiyer]

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

It seems to me that hardly any newcomers read the first page which usually explains most questions and answers that you may have. There should be a disclaimer at top that says read the first page before you post.

They probably didn't want to dig through the wall of text. Kinda like they don't want to look for clues in the game...

Anyone see a pattern here?

Some times I feel like a reaper, but instead of destroying Civilizations every 50,000 years, I just read recycled information every ten pages.

The cycle cannot be broken.

[Sire Styx]

About the TIM thing, there's one outcome where TIM shoots Shepard then walks off. If it was really TIM, why did he walk away from the console? He said he could use the crucible to control the reapers so why did he leave instead of controling the reapers? Because it's not TIM and it's a reaper representation.

[Hammer_Of_God]

Hi guys

Just want to come here & add my voice to the ever growing (and for good reason!) IT crowd 

Finished my first playthrough about 3 days ago and I have
to admit that throughout the game there were a couple of instances where I
found myself pausing and coming to the conclusion that something is just not
quite right here, whilst not being able to put my finger on what exactly
felt off. This feeling intensified a million-fold during the ending sequences,
but having heard that the ending was a disaster (while resisting the urge to go
online to spoil myself as to why exactly), I merely passed this sensation off
as signs of the awful ending I’d been hearing about coming to fruition.
When the godchild appeared & began spouting its appallingly
senseless babble I was aghast, but persevered, hoping for some sense in the
resolution.
Then the 3 options arose, none of which made sense. Well…
destroy made sense, seeing as this had been the goal from the get go, but the killing
the Geth part was what really put me off. After all I had done for the Geth,
resolving the conflict between them & the Quarians, & after losing
Legion – who happened to be one of my most beloved of characters, alongside my
fondness for an ever evolving Edi, I simply could not bring myself to go this
route.
Control made no sense what so ever! There was something
so fundamentally wrong in any assumption that we could control the reapers –
Tim’s failed intentions merely reinforcing that fact. I couldn’t care less what
freaky god child was trying to convince me off, there’s just no way I could see
that option ever ending well despite whatever I was being told. Perhaps I
should’ve read more into those massive alarm bells going off at that moment,
that all was definitely not what it seemed, but for some reason I just shrugged
it off.
Synthesis just didn’t seem right either, rebelling
against my better sense, but given the previous choices – kill Geth (hell no!
not a chance am I gonna betray them) & play god with something that screams
of insanity, synthesis – as crap as it was – appeared the best compromise.
So after much deliberation, I set off, finally diving
into that beam of light & holy ****!!!! Shep turns into a husk like thing,
eyes glowing disturbingly blue & I’m screaming Noooooo, this just feels so
goddamn wrong! Add to that the ridiculous ending with the Normandy crew &
all & I was left reeling. Badly!

Being told not to bother playing through the other
endings for reasons that are all too obvious to spell out, I decided to youtube
the rest to see how they played out without wasting my time in game. &
somewhere amongst it all, as my dismay continued to rise at just how dismal
& plothole riddled the endings were, I came across a vid showing the indoc
theory – And my mind was blown!
 IT ALL SUDDENLY
MADE SUCH SENSE!!!!!!!
All those niggling moments that bugged me before, that profound
sense in the end that something was terribly amiss… Everything! (well… almost
everything, at least the import stuff anyway). The creepy kid – no one but Shep
ever really aware of it. The freaky dreams, whispering oily shadows, that whole
bizarre finale culminating in the disturbing image of my Shepard gone husk, &
stupid space magic etc – it all began to fall into place!
And it hit me - I have just been indoctrinated! Holy
crap! Bioware you beauties! I can’t believe you guys just managed to pull this
off! You are gods! And I will forever love you for pulling something of this
magnitude off on the vast majority of your fans! WOW!!!!! Just… wow.
This time I was left reeling yet again, but in an
altogether awesome way!

Of course, IT is still little more than a theory at this
stage – but holy crap the evidence is there scattered throughout the game &
it just makes so much sense!
I’ve been lurking here for the past three days since
finishing my game & while I’ll be the first to state that not all the
evidence put forward in this thread contributes to what I’d consider compelling
– much of it is far too circumstantial if not even ridiculous at times. Never
the less, there is a lot that is so compelling you’d need to be blind not to
see it.
I am a believer!
While I plan to go ‘destroy’ on my second play through, I
will still keep my synthesis save, simply to see how it plays out & because…
despite whatever misgivings I might’ve had, I was still [/i]indoctrinated!  Well
done Bioware! You got me, & I love you for doing something so outrageous,
bold & unexpected.  & for
completely blowing my mind!

Naturally, we could all be proven wrong in the coming
days – Indoc is by no means fool proof.  But
whether it’s IT or something else entirely, I can’t deny the feeling that all isn’t
what it seems & that Bioware has something in store for us.
So with mindless rambling finally over, here's to you guys for holding the line, & to
hoping that whatever Bioware has instore, that it proves to live up to our expectations




 

Modifié par Hammer_Of_God, 30 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[n00bsauce2010]

Sire Styx wrote...

About the TIM thing, there's one outcome where TIM shoots Shepard then walks off. If it was really TIM, why did he walk away from the console? He said he could use the crucible to control the reapers so why did he leave instead of controling the reapers? Because it's not TIM and it's a reaper representation.

Because he isn't real. If you notice during the dialogue. He confidently says "I know I can control the reapers" but after he kills you, he doesn't even try to control them and just walks off. The camera makes a point to show the console.

[Sire Styx]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Sire Styx wrote...

About the TIM thing, there's one outcome where TIM shoots Shepard then walks off. If it was really TIM, why did he walk away from the console? He said he could use the crucible to control the reapers so why did he leave instead of controling the reapers? Because it's not TIM and it's a reaper representation.

Because he isn't real. If you notice during the dialogue. He confidently says "I know I can control the reapers" but after he kills you, he doesn't even try to control them and just walks off. The camera makes a point to show the console.

Lol I know

[waldstr18]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I don't know. Usually in an RPG if you don't explore, you do expect to get the main quest and nothing else. From that point of view I don't really get what your beef is. If there truly is only one real "ending" where he picks destroy, which in turn leads you to the final confrontation (what mainstream IT proposes), then it makes sense that if you get a low EMS score you would  only get to finish the story, and not experience the depth of the Indoctrination mechanic.

i guess i just cant see it the way you do. i just cant wrap my head arround getting the end of the story just by rushing through the game instead of just having a not so good ending. its not what i have come to expect from bioware. this would also mean i could always get the red ending, which i can, but if the story can end with the red ending nothing is explained either. even if i get the worsed ending, i want things explained, not just explosion, explosion, crash, the end.

but lets say you are right for the sake of argument, why would they restart the game then and send me back to where i havent enganged cerberus yet? wouldnt it make more sense to not restart but to use the martin sheen quote "im not done yet", so people actually knew this isnt it.

sorry, im really hard to convince concerning the idoctrination theory. usally im quite gullible.

[n00bsauce2010]

Hammer_Of_God wrote...

Hi guys

Just want to come here & add my voice to the ever growing (and for good reason!) IT crowd 

Finished my first playthrough about 3 days ago and I have
to admit that throughout the game there were a couple of instances where I
found myself pausing and coming to the conclusion that something is just not
quite right here, whilst not being able to put my finger on what exactly
felt off. This feeling intensified a million-fold during the ending sequences,
but having heard that the ending was a disaster (while resisting the urge to go
online to spoil myself as to why exactly), I merely passed this sensation off
as signs of the awful ending I’d been hearing about coming to fruition.
When the godchild appeared & began spouting its appallingly
senseless babble I was aghast, but persevered, hoping for some sense in the
resolution.
Then the 3 options arose, none of which made sense. Well…
destroy made sense, seeing as this had been the goal from the get go, but the killing
the Geth part was what really put me off. After all I had done for the Geth,
resolving the conflict between them & the Quarians, & after losing
Legion – who happened to be one of my most beloved of characters, alongside my
fondness for an ever evolving Edi, I simply could not bring myself to go this
route.
Control made no sense what so ever! There was something
so fundamentally wrong in any assumption that we could control the reapers –
Tim’s failed intentions merely reinforcing that fact. I couldn’t care less what
freaky god child was trying to convince me off, there’s just no way I could see
that option ever ending well despite whatever I was being told. Perhaps I
should’ve read more into those massive alarm bells going off at that moment,
that all was definitely not what it seemed, but for some reason I just shrugged
it off.
Synthesis just didn’t seem right either, rebelling
against my better sense, but given the previous choices – kill Geth (hell no!
not a chance am I gonna betray them) & play god with something that screams
of insanity, synthesis – as crap as it was – appeared the best compromise.
So after much deliberation, I set off, finally diving
into that beam of light & holy ****!!!! Shep turns into a husk like thing,
eyes glowing disturbingly blue & I’m screaming Noooooo, this just feels so
goddamn wrong! Add to that the ridiculous ending with the Normandy crew &
all & I was left reeling. Badly!

Being told not to bother playing through the other
endings for reasons that are all too obvious to spell out, I decided to youtube
the rest to see how they played out without wasting my time in game. &
somewhere amongst it all, as my dismay continued to rise at just how dismal
& plothole riddled the endings were, I came across a vid showing the indoc
theory – And my mind was blown!
 IT ALL SUDDENLY
MADE SUCH SENSE!!!!!!!
All those niggling moments that bugged me before, that profound
sense in the end that something was terribly amiss… Everything! (well… almost
everything, at least the import stuff anyway). The creepy kid – no one but Shep
ever really aware of it. The freaky dreams, whispering oily shadows, that whole
bizarre finale culminating in the disturbing image of my Shepard gone husk, &
stupid space magic etc – it all began to fall into place!
And it hit me - I have just been indoctrinated! Holy
crap! Bioware you beauties! I can’t believe you guys just managed to pull this
off! You are gods! And I will forever love you for pulling something of this
magnitude off on the vast majority of your fans! WOW!!!!! Just… wow.
This time I was left reeling yet again, but in an
altogether awesome way!

Of course, IT is still little more than a theory at this
stage – but holy crap the evidence is there scattered throughout the game &
it just makes so much sense!
I’ve been lurking here for the past three days since
finishing my game & while I’ll be the first to state that not all the
evidence put forward in this thread contributes to what I’d consider compelling
– much of it is far too circumstantial if not even ridiculous at times. Never
the less, there is a lot that is so compelling you’d need to be blind not to
see it.
I am a believer!
While I plan to go ‘destroy’ on my second play through, I
will still keep my synthesis save, simply to see how it plays out & because…
despite whatever misgivings I might’ve had, I was still [/i]indoctrinated!  Well
done Bioware! You got me, & I love you for doing something so outrageous,
bold & unexpected.  & for
completely blowing my mind!

Indeed sir. +1.
I think the problem with it is that some people will completely dismiss anything other than their intention to cry/whine and try to get the ending changed.
It seems like you were patient enough to sit back, relax and try to figure out what happened rather than crying like a girl. That seems to be the biggest between indoc theorists and people who hate the ending either way and want it changed. I guess it's just a matter of tolerence and patience.

[Samuel Beckenbach]

i dont know why all u guys think if its true its the best game design ever but lets get to the main part we will all pay good money to see the game finish but wat does that say to the gaming industry that they can make games with clif hanger like endings and make dlc to finish it making us dish out more money if ME does do this then lets add up the amount of money we payed for this game 10 dollars for day one dlc which is ******** by the way 60 for the game and im guessin 1200 microsoft points for the ending dlc however which is 80 bucks total for a "complete" game cant wait to pay 80 bucks for single games

[Slaiyer]

waldstr18 wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I don't know. Usually in an RPG if you don't explore, you do expect to get the main quest and nothing else. From that point of view I don't really get what your beef is. If there truly is only one real "ending" where he picks destroy, which in turn leads you to the final confrontation (what mainstream IT proposes), then it makes sense that if you get a low EMS score you would  only get to finish the story, and not experience the depth of the Indoctrination mechanic.

i guess i just cant see it the way you do. i just cant wrap my head arround getting the end of the story just by rushing through the game instead of just having a not so good ending. its not what i have come to expect from bioware. this would also mean i could always get the red ending, which i can, but if the story can end with the red ending nothing is explained either. even if i get the worsed ending, i want things explained, not just explosion, explosion, crash, the end.

Something I (just) realised is that earlier you made the argument that you could die at the end of ME2 if you sucked. Hard. (That was both paraphrased and not my realisation). What I now recall is that IT suggests that this is not the end, but rather the climax (or very near) of conventional storytelling. This means there would still be room afterwards for you to be royaly screwed by your mistakes. And at that time it would actually impact the ending more so than picking vanilla ice cream and you favourite food colouring (or "coloring" if your in USA - Why do you guys randomly take out letters from words?!?!).

[Turbotanden]

waldstr18 wrote...

ME3endingsucks2 wrote...

waldstr you have posted absolute dog **** as for why you think IT is wrong, when anyone asks you you just say you've said it already, but the fact is you haven't. You are either an astronomical idiot, or an astronomical douche to troll on a thread for a video game.

thank you, kind sir. i was really worried about not getting my "in your face" moment, with everyone being so nice all of a sudden. but now you have appeared, and now i dont have to feel bad when i capture my victory dance, put in on youtube, and paste it here.

as for the troll comment. i looked it up, and i accept. i really like to be a troll. is there a initiation ceremony, whichs makes me an offical troll, or do i have to get the "professional troll" shirt from zero punctuation?

People who should not be allowed to post and people who only want to win.

Good thing there are other places to actually discuss potential evidence for IT without people going berserk or saying "omg that little piece of evidence is soo grasping at straws, that means the whole theory is debunked".

[shepskisaac]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

Ok, IsaacShep. Let's say that TIM can control people. Then... Why he tries to convince Shepard talking? And why he not tries to convince Anderson as well? If he can control Shepard and Anderson, why not, simply, force them to shoot each other? Why the dialog? TIM is already won. If he just needs to kill Shepard and Anderson, and take the control of the Crucible. But no, he start the dialog. Why? It makes no sense.

Please, forgive my horrible grammar, I'm not english native-speaker, so... I do what I can XD

He said, he wantes them to believe and see it his way. And he does make Shep shoot Anderson doesn't he? And in various scenarios, he shoots at Shep or kills Anderson himself.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[byne]

Slaiyer wrote...

 And at that time it would actually impact the ending more so than picking vanilla ice cream and you favourite food colouring (or "coloring" if your in USA - Why do you guys randomly take out letters from words?!?!).

We just take out the pointless u's. The words sound the same either way you spell it, so we get rid of the unneeded letters.

[shepskisaac]

llbountyhunter wrote...

And if you believe some parts IDT they say you were actually partially ID for most of game with the child apperations and dreams, its not until the that you get the final push if ID.

No. Indoctrination Theory in this thread assume the entire ending was a hallucination/dream and SHep is actually lying on London ground through all sequences, I don't assume that, never will unless Bioware says that's the case. I believe all scenes really happen and what what I see on screen is real. That includes obvious indoctrination during TIM scene. But I don't extrapolate that to other ending scenes and I don't assume this indoctrination happens during one big hallucination.

[Derp88]

Just noticed something a bit weird.

After Shepard has that talk with Anderson (which always sheds a manly tear) and seems to be making peace with his mind that he accomplished his mission, Hackett suddenly starts talking to Shepard (which is weird, seeing as Hackett believed everyone charging the beam is dead, but that's been mentioned before)

What I found strange is Shepard says "What do you need me to do?" while moaning in pain simultaneously. I mean, I many be looking too much into that, but wouldn't it be more like "What "arrghh" do you need "urgh* me to do?" But he just says it clearly while he groans in pain in the background - like two distinct, separate audios.

This could just be the original delivery of the line, and the groans were added in without much thought just to emphasise his pain and struggle to reach the console. But its like an inner-monologue in his mind, like he's appealing to his own sense of heroism.

[n00bsauce2010]

Slaiyer wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I don't know. Usually in an RPG if you don't explore, you do expect to get the main quest and nothing else. From that point of view I don't really get what your beef is. If there truly is only one real "ending" where he picks destroy, which in turn leads you to the final confrontation (what mainstream IT proposes), then it makes sense that if you get a low EMS score you would  only get to finish the story, and not experience the depth of the Indoctrination mechanic.

i guess i just cant see it the way you do. i just cant wrap my head arround getting the end of the story just by rushing through the game instead of just having a not so good ending. its not what i have come to expect from bioware. this would also mean i could always get the red ending, which i can, but if the story can end with the red ending nothing is explained either. even if i get the worsed ending, i want things explained, not just explosion, explosion, crash, the end.

Something I (just) realised is that earlier you made the argument that you could die at the end of ME2 if you sucked. Hard. (That was both paraphrased and not my realisation). What I now recall is that IT suggests that this is not the end, but rather the climax (or very near) of conventional storytelling. This means there would still be room afterwards for you to be royaly screwed by your mistakes. And at that time it would actually impact the ending more so than picking vanilla ice cream and you favourite food colouring (or "coloring" if your in USA - Why do you guys randomly take out letters from words?!?!).

It comes from the American need to rebel against anything that isn't American.

But no offense to your post. As I've said like 5 times now - trying to convince waldstr18 is a lost cause. We've explained the possibibility of IDT and the fact that all endings could continue if bioware does it correctly. We've explained the theory and his thick skull just won't soak its intentions in.. regardless if he believes it or not. Believe it or not there is a "right way" to play the game. Why should you be rewarded for zipping through the game and not doing any side quests? I don't even see how anyone would want to do that. Wouldn't you like to experience all the game has to offer? You get more dialogue options as well as memorable moments between shep and friends if you do. That alone seems worth it to me.

[Golferguy758]

IsaacShep wrote...

Hacedor1566 wrote...

Ok, IsaacShep. Let's say that TIM can control people. Then... Why he tries to convince Shepard talking? And why he not tries to convince Anderson as well? If he can control Shepard and Anderson, why not, simply, force them to shoot each other? Why the dialog? TIM is already won. If he just needs to kill Shepard and Anderson, and take the control of the Crucible. But no, he start the dialog. Why? It makes no sense.

Please, forgive my horrible grammar, I'm not english native-speaker, so... I do what I can XD

He said, he wantes them to believe and see it his way. And he does make Shep shoot Anderson doesn't he? And in various scenarios, he shoots at Shep or kills Anderson himself.

He [TIM] spends the entire game talking to Shepard telling Shepard that he doesn't care what Shepard thinks because he's going to do it his own way. Only now in the 12th hour he NEEDS Shepard to udnerstand?

Wat?

[waldstr18]

@thomas

in germany, like i said, i dont take letters out of your words, i just say sss instead of th. i.e. its nice to sssink about sssings concerning the indo. ssseory.

now about what you worte. you are suggesting the story continues no matter what? the only difference is if i take red it continues instantanious, but with the other two i get to play a little more indoctrination.

but that still keeps me asking: why then put me back in the game to the point they did. how about a: to be continued. the end? to be concluded. something like that. (oh, and if you want, all of you can guess which movies i took thos lines from.)

[Golferguy758]

waldstr18 wrote...

@thomas

in germany, like i said, i dont take letters out of your words, i just say sss instead of th. i.e. its nice to sssink about sssings concerning the indo. ssseory.

now about what you worte. you are suggesting the story continues no matter what? the only difference is if i take red it continues instantanious, but with the other two i get to play a little more indoctrination.

but that still keeps me asking: why then put me back in the game to the point they did. how about a: to be continued. the end? to be concluded. something like that. (oh, and if you want, all of you can guess which movies i took thos lines from.)

i wonder if you have me ignored because I've answered this statement from you going on 4 times now

[shepskisaac]

Golferguy758 wrote...

He [TIM] spends the entire game talking to Shepard telling Shepard that he doesn't care what Shepard thinks because he's going to do it his own way. Only now in the 12th hour he NEEDS Shepard to udnerstand?

Wat?

Very possible that it's Reapers influence. Through TIM, they want Shep to convince that control is the key. But again, as soon as TIM is dead, the indoctrination attemps ends. Regardless if TIM was the only one indoctrinating, or he was aid and/or used as a vessel to indoctrinate Shep by Reapers, the indoctrination attempt clearly ends with TIM's death to me.

[waldstr18]

@Golferguy758

sorry. terribly. im gonna look for it now. and i dont ignore people.