57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Slaiyer]

Ah yes. One other point of speculation I just recalled. No clue if it was answered in pages 5-999 but at the Anderson and Shep moment after TIM dies, they're both sitting against a circular... thing... protruding from the ground. A 'thing' that wasn't there before and at no point was shown to rise from the ground.

This is an extreme nit-pick but worth a say (unless it's been previously said, in which case - sorry)

[Thomas Shepard]

IsaacShep wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

And if you believe some parts IDT they say you were actually partially ID for most of game with the child apperations and dreams, its not until the that you get the final push if ID.

No. Indoctrination Theory in this thread assume the entire ending was a hallucination/dream and SHep is actually lying on London ground through all sequences, I don't assume that, never will unless Bioware says that's the case. I believe all scenes really happen and what what I see on screen is real. That includes obvious indoctrination during TIM scene. But I don't extrapolate that to other ending scenes and I don't assume this indoctrination happens during one big hallucination.

Well you obviously have a point that you are trying to make

Here's a point of mine. Both your theory and the IT account for a lot of the so-called plot holes in the ending. They just call for a different interpretation. Both theories rely on canon evidence interpreted differently. Both theories have no way of being definitively proven until the BioWare devs speak on the issue.

My point is why don't you start your own thread that fully explains your theory with a lot of supporting evidence, the way this one does the IT? Kind of makes more sense?

And by the way, the scene with the crashed Normandy at least is definitely a dream, man. I personally posted like I don't know how many pages back that the jungle foliage that is used specifically for this scene is actually on a 2D texture called Dream_Tree or sth like that.

[Golferguy758]

IsaacShep wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

He [TIM] spends the entire game talking to Shepard telling Shepard that he doesn't care what Shepard thinks because he's going to do it his own way. Only now in the 12th hour he NEEDS Shepard to udnerstand?

Wat?

Very possible that it's Reapers influence. Through TIM, they want Shep to convince that control is the key. But again, as soon as TIM is dead, the indoctrination attemps ends. Regardless if TIM was the only one indoctrinating, or he was aid and/or used as a vessel to indoctrinate Shep by Reapers, the indoctrination attempt clearly ends with TIM's death to me.

I personally see that as the Red Herring. Lull Shepard in a false sense of security. You stopped TIM! You are free to make you own choice. And the actual indoctrination attempt really goes after Shepard at the 3 choice area. 

One of the best ways to manipulate someone into thinking along your liens of thought is to lure them in with a small victory. After that you spring the trap so to speak. 

TO each their own though. Only 8 days till we get answers.

[Golferguy758]

waldstr18 wrote...

@Golferguy758

sorry. terribly. im gonna look for it now. and i dont ignore people.

No worries. I'll retype it for you in a sec

[Hunter_Wolf]

Slaiyer wrote...
This is an extreme nit-pick but worth a say (unless it's been previously said, in which case - sorry)

Anderson did say the place was shifting.

[Golferguy758]

waldstr18 wrote...

@thomas

in germany, like i said, i dont take letters out of your words, i just say sss instead of th. i.e. its nice to sssink about sssings concerning the indo. ssseory.

now about what you worte. you are suggesting the story continues no matter what? the only difference is if i take red it continues instantanious, but with the other two i get to play a little more indoctrination.

but that still keeps me asking: why then put me back in the game to the point they did. how about a: to be continued. the end? to be concluded. something like that. (oh, and if you want, all of you can guess which movies i took thos lines from.)

The reason they can't put a "To Be Continued" thign at the end is pretty simple. That would completely ruin the immersion that just happened. If they made it THAT blatant there would be no speculation. People would just be angry that they didn't have a full game right there.

The sublte breath scene allows for speculation up until the reveal. The "To Be Continued" Is the Shepard Breathing scene.

I can reword this if it's not clear enough

[waldstr18]

@golferguy

the one where you said it would be awesome for indoc shepard to go up against his team mates?

didnt realize that was an aswer to my question. sorry for that again. oh, and i have to say, it would be. cause then you know you did something wrong. this would only make sense in an anikin skywalker kinda way, were there point of view is suddenly evil, and i think we already had that moment, when we had the stand down with ashley.

also, i already accepted that we wont see eye to eye on the only one ending thing, so i have raised the next question: if it really continues from there, why restart the game and not say ... wait for it.. wait for it... DLC!

crap, you just answered my question right before i posted.

but, if the breathing scene is the ... to be continued... why do i get that only when i chose red?

at least you are agreeing with me on the "not finished game" part. which in my eyes, makes your argument about people being angry if they instantly found out about it non sense. since what you are actually saying is, bioware tricks its fans so they wont get angry right away. and then, when they figured it all out, the give us dlc so we wont also get angry afterwards. i dont think either one is ok. an unfinished game isnt, and you saying they did it on purpose ... well, i dont like that either. find it pretentious. what do you know about their intentions?

uhh... that sounded a little harsh. i dont mean anything by it. sorry.

Modifié par waldstr18, 30 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[Dein Justin]

TIM said during the 3rd renegade check in the Citadel...

"I am the pinnacle of your species". Not my species, not our species, but YOUR species. TIM is human, but he is referring to humanity from a 2nd person perspective. C'mon BW, just give us a some teaser of hope. The whole of ME3's theme is about indoctrination, so enough of the indoctrination and let us get the real ending post-indoctrination. Don't pull a Ubisoft on us with an ME3:Revelations.

[Golferguy758]

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...
This is an extreme nit-pick but worth a say (unless it's been previously said, in which case - sorry)

Anderson did say the place was shifting.

"The walls are shifting, changing".

floors are not walls. Also, you are standing on it, you would have seen it move or at least the characters who are on it move.

[Turbotanden]

Btw I found quotes from the Reaper IFF mission that quite accurately explains how the ending felt to me.

"It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does."

"Cerberus Scientist: That thing that just… gray thing! It disappeared when I looked straight at it. Came out of the damn wall! Where we took off that panel."

Warped reality? Check.
Gray spooky thing coming out of the damn wall? Check.

[Slaiyer]

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...
This is an extreme nit-pick but worth a say (unless it's been previously said, in which case - sorry)

Anderson did say the place was shifting.

Walls. He said the walls were shifting. Not the floor, not the ceiling, not the single path up to the control panel (unrelated to this but part of IT), and not the floor in the room we've been in and looking at for 5 minutes.

[Golferguy758]

waldstr18 wrote...

@golferguy

the one where you said it would be awesome for indoc shepard to go up against his team mates?

didnt realize that was an aswer to my question. sorry for that again. oh, and i have to say, it would be. cause then you know you did something wrong. this would only make sense in an anikin skywalker kinda way, were there point of view is suddenly evil, and i think we already had that moment, when we had the stand down with ashley.

also, i already accepted that we wont see eye to eye on the only one ending thing, so i have raised the next question: if it really continues from there, why restart the game and not say ... wait for it.. wait for it... DLC!

That was just a way to explain how the game could continue if you chose blue or green. Essentially making it so you don't just lose right then and there. You would get to see how your choice played out. Essentially, more endings! More happy!

[Super Sakko]

Ok guys I discovered something really important!!! There is a way to elude indoctrination!!!!

In fact in my first playthrough I did choose destruction as option, thinking: "Damn the reapers, I don't want them to live, I just want to destroy them, and I don't care if i'm going to close my 2008 paragon savegame with a renegade option". So after all i did the good decision because i was not indoctrinated (Me not my shepard). How???? I was high on weed.

Having an altered state of my mind made me not belive to what the game was saying and so I could act like i would had in any previous moment of the three games.... So we should send weed supplies to TIM and Saren, when we'll discover the mass relay in our solar system!!!

[shepskisaac]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

And by the way, the scene with the crashed Normandy at least is definitely a dream, man. I personally posted like I don't know how many pages back that the jungle foliage that is used specifically for this scene is actually on a 2D texture called Dream_Tree or sth like that.

That's potentially more interesting info than the entire ID theory. Before I talk about that, one more thing. I simply accept the possibility that Normandy thing may be just vad writing, or they deliberately cut "how did the squadmates got there and what and why is Joker doing this" for DLC. ID theory is kind of desperate to remove the possibility of bad writing, or mistakes on devs' part or deliberate DLC being the reality behind the state of endings. Wishiful thinking, wanting to things be great. I simply think it may be just that. Bad writing, a mistake, or a delibaret plan.

Now about the tree texture. Very interesting. However, not definitive. It may be assets reusage. It would be a much more definite proof if we know 100% this texture is not used anywhere else. They may have simply reused flora textures from the dream sequences.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[llbountyhunter]

IsaacShep wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

And if you believe some parts IDT they say you were actually partially ID for most of game with the child apperations and dreams, its not until the that you get the final push if ID.

No. Indoctrination Theory in this thread assume the entire ending was a hallucination/dream and SHep is actually lying on London ground through all sequences, I don't assume that, never will unless Bioware says that's the case. I believe all scenes really happen and what what I see on screen is real. That includes obvious indoctrination during TIM scene. But I don't extrapolate that to other ending scenes and I don't assume this indoctrination happens during one big hallucination.

i didnt say the whole game was a hallucinaion i said you where slightly ID (ID=/= hallucination) 

did you even bother watching the videos on the first page?

[Thomas Shepard]

waldstr18 wrote...

@golferguy

the one where you said it would be awesome for indoc shepard to go up against his team mates?

didnt realize that was an aswer to my question. sorry for that again. oh, and i have to say, it would be. cause then you know you did something wrong. this would only make sense in an anikin skywalker kinda way, were there point of view is suddenly evil, and i think we already had that moment, when we had the stand down with ashley.

also, i already accepted that we wont see eye to eye on the only one ending thing, so i have raised the next question: if it really continues from there, why restart the game and not say ... wait for it.. wait for it... DLC!

Well, I would actually do the same thing because it lets you enjoy any missions that you may have missed instead of just sitting around and waiting for the DLC to come out. Then when it comes out you replay the final sequence, and you get right back into that intense moment.

[masster blaster]

So what have I missed?

[n00bsauce2010]

IsaacShep wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

And by the way, the scene with the crashed Normandy at least is definitely a dream, man. I personally posted like I don't know how many pages back that the jungle foliage that is used specifically for this scene is actually on a 2D texture called Dream_Tree or sth like that.

That's potentially more interesting info than the entire ID theory. Before I talk about that, one more thing. I simply accept the possibility that Normandy thing may be just vad writing, or they deliberately cut "how did the squadmates got there and what and why is Joker doing this" for DLC. ID theory is kind of desperate to remove the possibility of bad writing, or mistakes on devs' part or deliberate DLC being the reality behind the state of endings. Wishiful thinking, wanting to things be great. I simply think it may be just that. Bad writing, a mistake, or a delibaret plan.

Now about the tree texture. Very interesting. However, not definitive. It may be assets reusage. It would be a much more definite proof if we know 100% this texture is not used anywhere else. They may have simply reused flora textures from the dream sequences.

If they're reused from the dream sequence then that means it's probably still proof towards indoc theory. Also did you just ignore.. he said the foliage is used specifically for the dream sequence. which means it's not found under any other tree textures.

[waldstr18]

waldstr18 wrote...

@golferguy

the one where you said it would be awesome for indoc shepard to go up against his team mates?

didnt realize that was an aswer to my question. sorry for that again. oh, and i have to say, it would be. cause then you know you did something wrong. this would only make sense in an anikin skywalker kinda way, were there point of view is suddenly evil, and i think we already had that moment, when we had the stand down with ashley.

also, i already accepted that we wont see eye to eye on the only one ending thing, so i have raised the next question: if it really continues from there, why restart the game and not say ... wait for it.. wait for it... DLC!

crap, you just answered my question right before i posted.

but, if the breathing scene is the ... to be continued... why do i get that only when i chose red?

at least you are agreeing with me on the "not finished game" part. which in my eyes, makes your argument about people being angry if they instantly found out about it non sense. since what you are actually saying is, bioware tricks its fans so they wont get angry right away. and then, when they figured it all out, the give us dlc so we wont also get angry afterwards. i dont think either one is ok. an unfinished game isnt, and you saying they did it on purpose ... well, i dont like that either. find it pretentious. what do you know about their intentions?

uhh... that sounded a little harsh. i dont mean anything by it. sorry.

had to repost, so i get noticed. i want attention!!!

@thomas shepard

thats a sound logic, but i had all the missions already. so all i could do was wait around, like you said, right there, or do the final mission again. so why send me back if i have all the missions done already? well, i tell you: because the upcoming dlc was ment to be another normal mission. like getting another squad mate or some hammerheading, an overlord maybe. a shadow broker if we are lucky. and not the real ending, like you think.

[Thomas Shepard]

IsaacShep wrote...

Thomas Shepard wrote...

And by the way, the scene with the crashed Normandy at least is definitely a dream, man. I personally posted like I don't know how many pages back that the jungle foliage that is used specifically for this scene is actually on a 2D texture called Dream_Tree or sth like that.

That's potentially more interesting info than the entire ID theory. Before I talk about that, one more thing. I simply accept the possibility that Normandy thing may be just vad writing, or they deliberately cut "how did the squadmates got there and what and why is Joker doing this" for DLC. ID theory is kind of desperate to remove the possibility of bad writing, or mistakes on devs' part or deliberate DLC being the reality behind the state of endings. Wishiful thinking, wanting to things be great. I simply think it may be just that. Bad writing, a mistake, or a delibaret plan.

Now about the tree texture. Very interesting. However, not definitive. It may be assets reusage. It would be a much more definite proof if we know 100% this texture is not used anywhere else. They may have simply reused flora textures from the dream sequences.

Well it's a bright green jungle tree leaf like the one that the camera opens on, plus a brush like the one next to the crashed normandy. One of the asset names actually is from the same scene, and has normandy and dream in the name.

Don't be lazy, just go back through the thread and find it. It's a big a** post.

[n00bsauce2010]

masster blaster wrote...

So what have I missed?

Not too much. A lot of anti-indoc theorists seem to come.. so we keep having to explain everything because they ignore the OP

[llbountyhunter]

nothing to do with IDT, but its one of my favorite parts in the game....



makes me tear up a little every time i see it.... honestly me is the only game that has been able to do this. game of the year 2012!!!

[waldstr18]

oh, one thing i tottaly forgot about! only my first play through was without multiplayer. i like it fine. i even play some times. problem with the pc version in germany is, though, nobody seems to have the courage to actually use the voice chat ability.

an awkward silence for 10 waves each match.

[Thomas Shepard]

waldstr18 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

@golferguy

the one where you said it would be awesome for indoc shepard to go up against his team mates?

didnt realize that was an aswer to my question. sorry for that again. oh, and i have to say, it would be. cause then you know you did something wrong. this would only make sense in an anikin skywalker kinda way, were there point of view is suddenly evil, and i think we already had that moment, when we had the stand down with ashley.

also, i already accepted that we wont see eye to eye on the only one ending thing, so i have raised the next question: if it really continues from there, why restart the game and not say ... wait for it.. wait for it... DLC!

crap, you just answered my question right before i posted.

but, if the breathing scene is the ... to be continued... why do i get that only when i chose red?

at least you are agreeing with me on the "not finished game" part. which in my eyes, makes your argument about people being angry if they instantly found out about it non sense. since what you are actually saying is, bioware tricks its fans so they wont get angry right away. and then, when they figured it all out, the give us dlc so we wont also get angry afterwards. i dont think either one is ok. an unfinished game isnt, and you saying they did it on purpose ... well, i dont like that either. find it pretentious. what do you know about their intentions?

uhh... that sounded a little harsh. i dont mean anything by it. sorry.

had to repost, so i get noticed. i want attention!!!

@thomas shepard

thats a sound logic, but i had all the missions already. so all i could do was wait around, like you said, right there, or do the final mission again. so why send me back if i have all the missions done already? well, i tell you: because the upcoming dlc was ment to be another normal mission. like getting another squad mate or some hammerheading, an overlord maybe. a shadow broker if we are lucky. and not the real ending, like you think.

Dude, I've been proving ionic presence in water solutions for the last two hours. Cut me some slack

Of course, I meant that was in case you hadn't finished all of them. Still sends you back, so you can replay the finish from the beginning. From a strictly story-telling point of view it makes sense to want to recapture that momentum.

[masster blaster]

I know this is wrong to me to say, but I just want a huge statue of Shepard right on top of harbinger, with all the people that died to retake Earth, right under neath Shepard's platform.