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[Fisto The Sexbot]

indoctrination theory is tru because I said it's tru.

[n00bsauce2010]

kglaser wrote...

After thinking about it, I am forced to conclude that there MUST be more afoot here than the "endings" we got. I cannot possibly reconcile the perfect weaving of all plot points and decisions into the intricate tapestry that was the rest of the game with the bewildering hodge-podge that was the ending. Bioware cannot possibly be that stupid. Can they?? Something is going on, methinks. This theory looks better to me the more I look at it (and my son is on board, too).

Your son is smart. Hop on the bandwagon folks. All are welcome.

[Golferguy758]

Derp88 wrote...

Derp88 wrote...

Just noticed something a bit weird.

After Shepard has that talk with Anderson (which always sheds a manly tear) and seems to be making peace with his mind that he accomplished his mission, Hackett suddenly starts talking to Shepard (which is weird, seeing as Hackett believed everyone charging the beam is dead, but that's been mentioned before)

What I found strange is Shepard says "What do you need me to do?" while moaning in pain simultaneously. I mean, I many be looking too much into that, but wouldn't it be more like "What "arrghh" do you need "urgh* me to do?" But he just says it clearly while he groans in pain in the background - like two distinct, separate audios.

This could just be the original delivery of the line, and the groans were added in without much thought just to emphasise his pain and struggle to reach the console. But its like an inner-monologue in his mind, like he's appealing to his own sense of heroism.

Sorry to quote myself, but any thoughts on this?



Go to around 2:54, and listen to Shepard at the end. Bit weird?

Believe it was mentioned before, but that is actually really really clear. You can hear Shep grunting from moving at the same time as him talking. So either that is edited, or he's saying it mentally. Shepard must have a telekinetic link to Hackett.

You can still hear him grunting as he starts saying "What do you need me to do"

[Hammer_Of_God]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Indeed sir. +1.
I think the problem with it is that some people will completely dismiss anything other than their intention to cry/whine and try to get the ending changed.
It seems like you were patient enough to sit back, relax and try to figure out what happened rather than crying like a girl. That seems to be the biggest between indoc theorists and people who hate the ending either way and want it changed. I guess it's just a matter of tolerence and patience.

Patience... tolerance... perhaps you're right. Though I think that over all it simply comes down to seeing a whole whack of compelling evidence (that in spite of a few minor inconsistencies) cannot be denied. Its that simple really.
That, & the fact that Bioware are known for the unexpected twists they throw into their games & if there's any gaming company capable of pulling something of this magnitude off, its them. It sure as hell makes a hellova lot more sense than suddenly concluding that a studio so reputed for their brilliant story telling suddenly lost their marbles and screwed up the ending of their most esteemed franchise.

Of course, then there's the fact that I imagine that a lot of people just don’t want to admit to the fact that they've been had. Hell, I'd love to say that I saw through everything from the get go & realised it was all about indoctrination. But despite my suspicions that something was up, I still fell for it. So while I, & many others I'm sure, might get over that quickly enough & be more than thrilled to give Bioware the props they deserve for indoctrinating us - the players themselves! - Which I think is awesome & just another testament to Bioware’s storytelling skills! Many will have an issue with that, & I honestly think that this is half the problem - they just don’t want to admit that they were wrong, or got duped or whatever.

And then of course there will always be those that will chose to b**** & moan, despite the obvious staring them in the face, simply because they weren’t pandered to in the way they would've liked.

IMO, who cares really. IT aint about pulling everyone to our side of the fence, its about noting the fact that all isn’t what it seems, & that Indoc, up until this stage at least, just makes the most sense. I look forward to finding out what Bioware has in store for us, whether its indoc or something else entirely. If We're proven wrong, or disappointed in the end - then so be it, I'll deal with it then. But so far, given all the compelling evidence in game, nothing gives me the indication that Bioware screwed up, & I'm here to enjoy the ride.
The rest that cant get over their rant over what seemingly appears to be a crappy ending, are more than welcome to continue festering in their own little pity party.

Edit: wtf is going with my formatting here?!? Hope I've managed to sort it out... *sigh*

Modifié par Hammer_Of_God, 30 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[Thomas Shepard]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

indoctrination theory is tru because I said it's tru.

Dude, you have the most amazing screen name EVER!
I almost peed a little! Love you long time

[Dwailing]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

After thinking about it, I am forced to conclude that there MUST be more afoot here than the "endings" we got. I cannot possibly reconcile the perfect weaving of all plot points and decisions into the intricate tapestry that was the rest of the game with the bewildering hodge-podge that was the ending. Bioware cannot possibly be that stupid. Can they?? Something is going on, methinks. This theory looks better to me the more I look at it (and my son is on board, too).

Your son is smart. Hop on the bandwagon folks. All are welcome.

We love converts.   Also, I was serious about maybe needing some support on this thread: http://social.biowar...ndex/10791684/1  There may or may not be a brewing IT discussion.

[Big Bad]

Hi All,

I've been lurking for a while (I am embarassed to admit that I couldn't figure out how to post anything), but I just wanted to throw in my $0.02. 

I was originally an IDT skeptic, but I've come to believe that--at the very least--the ending we have seen is in some way not the "real" ending.  Here are a few of my top reasons for believing that (these are not new, I just wanted to get my opinion down):

- Shephard breathing scene - this is obviously a big indication that something odd is going on

- The fact that the tone of the entire ending sequence suddenly starts feeling completely bizarre and unreal after you are knocked out by the laser.

- The early tweets, which I believe were taken down, that were nearly breathless with excitement about what thedevs were going to be providing us at a later point.  Since these were mostly in response to the brouhaha over the ending, I really doubt that they could be referring to any kind of "regular" dlc

- The fact that the ending, as it now exists, blatantly contradicts the major themes of the series.  For example, we've heard over and over and over that the Reapers cannot be controlled, yet controlling them is the paragon option? This.Makes.No.Sense.

- The fact that the Guardian is a literal deus ex machina.  That is just a little too "on the nose" to be legit.

- The fact that you basically do not interact with Harbinger at all (except for the laser hitting you).  I find it very difficult to believe that the game could end without any meaningful interaction with Harbinger.  Seeing the Reapers destroyed in such an impersonal manner just doesn't make any sense given the connection between you and Harbinger


Those are most of my top reasons.  Granted, I have no illusions about IDT being a sure thing, but I am very confident that, in some way, the end of the game is not what it seems.

[DarthSyphilis59]

even IGN is seeming to jump on the indoctrination theory boat.

http://www.ign.com/v...t-3-spoilercast

[kglaser]

If Bioware pulls a "Gotcha!" with this and releases a *FREE* DLC with the "real" ending fairly soon, I'd say they were bloody marketing geniuses. Have you seen how much of the major news media has been covering this story?? In my many years of gaming, never have I seen a backlash anything like this one.

The question is, if that's what's really happening...how many fans will they lose over it?

[waldstr18]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

After thinking about it, I am forced to conclude that there MUST be more afoot here than the "endings" we got. I cannot possibly reconcile the perfect weaving of all plot points and decisions into the intricate tapestry that was the rest of the game with the bewildering hodge-podge that was the ending. Bioware cannot possibly be that stupid. Can they?? Something is going on, methinks. This theory looks better to me the more I look at it (and my son is on board, too).

Your son is smart. Hop on the bandwagon folks. All are welcome.

let me tell you a little story, about an emperor, would bought himself new clothes from some weird merchant. but when the merchant showed the cloth to the emperor, the emperor couldnt see nothing. but before the emperor could say anything, the merchant explained that only the smart and worthy could see the cloth. the emperor then of course didnt want to admit that he was neither smart nor worthy so he praised the merchant for his fine wares. [...] then finally, the emperor went out of the palace to show everyone his new clothes. everyone had of course heart by then, that only the smart and worthy could see the clothes, so all the people praised the emperors new clothes. everyone thought the emperor couldnt possibly really be walking down the street naked, so the explanation they have heart, about smart and worhty people must be true. [...]

oh, of course i stole this little tale from a man called hans christina anderson.

Modifié par waldstr18, 30 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[Jawsomebob]

I think this article hurts and helps idoc theory: http://www.complex.c...-in-mass-effect

[shepskisaac]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

@ IsaacShep I think that you should look at this http://img13.imagesh...rtedtexture.png, and then tell me what previous dream sequence could it exactly be from?

All of them? I can already see some of these plants on the texture you posted being used here: www.youtube.com/watch just look at the ground... ain't like they're gonna make different plant textures for all dream sequences. It's the same park in all of them, and they reused plants from the park on the jungle planet.

Thomas Shepard wrote...

I am not beyond admitting that there might have been a small mistake here or there in the entirety of the three games (haven't found one yet in default assets though). You, however, are proposing that the last 10 minutes of the game are so far sub par that they are at a totally different level of skill from the one usually displayed by BioWare. To me it's kind of like saying that Michael Phelps drowned in the tub.

People may make mistakes. Believe me that get you that you don't want it to be true, but it is a possibility it may have happened. Or perhaps it actually does make sense, but they made a common among authors mistake of not including all the key necessary info THEY know for the audience to be able to understand the events. Or perhaps there was indeed a deliberate plan for DLC - for example: Play as Major Coats with the 2 squadmates you took to the beam and find out how they got back on Normandy and where Normandy went. It's possible.

[Cross429]

Thomas Shepard wrote...

@ IsaacShep I think that you should look at this http://img13.imagesh...rtedtexture.png, and then tell me what previous dream sequence could it exactly be from?

I am not beyond admitting that there might have been a small mistake here or there in the entirety of the three games (haven't found one yet in default assets though). You, however, are proposing that the last 10 minutes of the game are so far sub par that they are at a totally different level of skill from the one usually displayed by BioWare. To me it's kind of like saying that Michael Phelps drowned in the tub.

Good comeback - this texture thing is pretty convincing.

Wish there was a way to give it more play.

[Kill-Joy]

Hey guys, a thought I've been considering.

What the hell is up with Major Coats? He is introduced at the last moment as a major character. He is involved in every part of the ending.

There is only one more named character introduced, and that is the Godchild. So, could there be something wrong with Major Coats? Because that was my first reaction to meeting him.

EDIT: Also in regards to the texture thing - it's not as if Bioware doesn't have enough flora textures. Why use the dream plants explicitly?

Modifié par Kill-Joy, 30 mars 2012 - 02:33 .

[Dwailing]

Kill-Joy wrote...

Hey guys, a thought I've been considering.

What the hell is up with Major Coats? He is introduced at the last moment as a major character. He is involved in every part of the ending.

There is only one more named character introduced, and that is the Godchild. So, could there be something wrong with Major Coats? Because that was my first reaction to meeting him.

EDIT: Also in regards to the texture thing - it's not as if Bioware doesn't have enough flora textures. Why use the dream plants explicitly?

I don't think so.  Anderson and Shepard both talk to and about Coats, while the only person who has seen the almost definitely halucinated Star-Brat is Shepard.

[DLClol]

One problem with Indoc theory is that TIM and Anderson would both still be alive. The TIM confrontation was probly the only good thing about the ending. If it turns out it was all fake BW would have to make another scene with TIM and that would seem kind of stupid.

Unless they just let TIM survive the game.

Modifié par DLClol, 30 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[shepskisaac]

Kill-Joy wrote...

EDIT: Also in regards to the texture thing - it's not as if Bioware doesn't have enough flora textures. Why use the dream plants explicitly?

Why not if they liked them? Nobody spends even a second thinking "Geee, I wonder if fans will extract files to see what are the names of the plants on Jungle planet". Seriously, no dev/artist overthinks art-reusage unless it's jarring "like highly unique specific texture". Especially when it's something like plants. Who here spent even a second looking at plants in dream sequences?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[Gilgamesh117]

Kill-Joy wrote...

Hey guys, a thought I've been considering.

What the hell is up with Major Coats? He is introduced at the last moment as a major character. He is involved in every part of the ending.

There is only one more named character introduced, and that is the Godchild. So, could there be something wrong with Major Coats? Because that was my first reaction to meeting him.

EDIT: Also in regards to the texture thing - it's not as if Bioware doesn't have enough flora textures. Why use the dream plants explicitly?

You may be on to something with the whole Coats thing. But they did the the same thing in the first game with captain Kirahe. A come outta nowhere char.

[Big Bad]

DLClol wrote...

One problem with Indoc theory is that TIM and Anderson would both still be alive. The TIM confrontation was probly the only good thing about the ending. If it turns out it was all fake BW would have to make another scene with TIM and that would seem kind of stupid.

Unless they just let TIM survive the game.

I actually didn't like the TIM encounter very much.  I thought it was way too similar to how Saren died.

[shepskisaac]

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

You may be on to something with the whole Coats thing. But they did the the same thing in the first game with captain Kirahe. A come outta nowhere char.

But Kirhaee's appearance went somewhere and meant something. You could save him through multiple assit mini-missions and he was heavily involved in the plot. Coats is completly useless. Everything he does/says could've been said by one of the squadmates, Cortez or Anderson. He's given alot of screentime for the sake of it, with no apparent goal or reason. To me it's an obvious set-up for DLC/book/comic for him.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[DLClol]

Big Bad wrote...

DLClol wrote...

One problem with Indoc theory is that TIM and Anderson would both still be alive. The TIM confrontation was probly the only good thing about the ending. If it turns out it was all fake BW would have to make another scene with TIM and that would seem kind of stupid.

Unless they just let TIM survive the game.

I actually didn't like the TIM encounter very much.  I thought it was way too similar to how Saren died.

Well regardless if you liked it or not, if the indoc theory is true hes still alive and is one of the top antagonists of the series and has to be dealt with. That or he survives which at this point im fine with.

Modifié par DLClol, 30 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[n00bsauce2010]

I think we can all agree the biggest letdown wasn't putting harbinger in his place.. like we all expected we would be able to.

[Dwailing]

IsaacShep wrote...

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

You may be on to something with the whole Coats thing. But they did the the same thing in the first game with captain Kirahe. A come outta nowhere char.

But Kirhaee's appearance went somewhere and meant something. You could save him through multiple assit mini-missions and he was heavily involved in the plot. Coats is completly useless. Everything he does/says could've been said by one of the squadmates, Cortez or Anderson. He's given alot of screentime for the sake of it, with no apparent goal or reason. To me it's an obvious set-up for DLC/book/comic for him.

Eh, I liked Coats.  It was good to see the London Sniper get some screen time.

[Emperor_Ike]

Sooo spent a couple days on a fresh Vanguard run-through of ME1. Grabbed most of Saren's late-game lines, some Sovereign, some other stuff. Of note: the Rachni queen mentions not just oily shadows but a 'sour yellow note,' which made me think of dear old Harby. But of course he wasn't anywhere nearby at the time, that we know of.

One thing I noticed (but unfortunately doesn't show up spectacularly well) is that those nice screen-edge oily shadows seen in ME3 during the convo with TIM also show up when Sovereign is exerting his influence over Saren to resurrect the cyborg-corpse to force it to fight you.

Dun dun DUN!?

http://s1243.photobu... Effect Convos/

[Big Bad]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I think we can all agree the biggest letdown wasn't putting harbinger in his place.. like we all expected we would be able to.

I still expect that showdown to occur.