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[Gerbil Fetus]

Something i dont think anyone has mentioned.

If the IT is not true.

The explanation for the shifting citadel/ console room being at the base of citadel tower never being seen before....maybe it didnt exsist before?

The Keepers are mentioned to go about their jobs ignoring everything else, the station is mentioned to actually be quite a hazard to explore(ME2 duct rats, Cerberus escapes after coup attempt)
Aditionally the keepers have access to construction materials that no one Knows were they get any of it.(Anderson says the keepers redo any repairs they made alot quicker and better than inhabitant species-no idea where their rescources come from)

The Keepers get their signal from the Reapers, then they trigger the invasion, the protheans brike that response. They are said to maybe grow in vats inside the citadal somewhere (ithink? Cant remeber where it was mentioned)

The whole citadel is a TRAP, we know that. Its affirmed by Vigil, and even again by Vegas "looks peaceful-but its not" (i was surprised that Shep couldnt go "duh man this whole place is a death trap waiting to happen! LETS GET OUT OF HERE")

The whole rest of the superstucture must be like a trasformer mixed with a whole mess of moving parts (it has a happy open mode and a closed down fort mode) and a LOT of Death Star like catwalks of death.
Somewhere in there would be the Catalyst (if IT is false) just chillen for some reason, the place Keepers come from and where the get their building materials.

We dont know, what happened to the Protheans tbat landed there whe
They went to mess with the Keepers-other than they succeeded and then died of probable starvation.
Could they achieve their goal by accessing the Citatel towers controls(seems that console was for closing/opening the Relay to darkspace and controling security arms-was it a master control to do everything?

Did the Protheans discover where the Keepers came from and is that where they altered them to ignore the Reaper invasion signal?


Will the Citadel Relay come into play at some point later? I meant there has to be a Mass Relay of at least Equal size over in Darkspace right for the reapers to be sent through the Citadel(back when the Keepers werent altered)

If IT isnt true, this idea fits nice with the previous mentions of the Citadel/Catalyst being an i doctrinating power for use by the catalyst AI.


If we ever find out more about the Keepers and the Citadel, i want to be able to maybe find out what happened to those Protheans(feels like a LOST episode situation with the french team) and i would like them to activate the Citadel Relay, i want to see what is in dark space(that might be a little too similar to the Ark installation from the Halo series that was indeed on the ede of the Galaxy)

End of rant.

[Pascal219]

So I just started replaying Mass Effect (1) and there is something I noticed after the Eden Prime mission. There are Whispers! When Shepard talks to Chakwas about the vision he received from the Prothean beacon, you can clearly hear it in the background!

www.youtube.com/watch

Perhaps it is major strawgrasping, but I found it interesting nonetheless! 

Edit: Inserted the right link and by the way, the whispers get broken up by none other then Anderson!

[Dance Craze]

I find it interesting that when you first see Anderson in the citadel during the last mission, he appears to be sitting in a chair and looks just like the illusive man...

[Naseilen]

bigstig wrote...
If Shep is the catalyst I can see the story ending one way. Where Shepard must die in order to save the galaxy. It's far to messianic.

I have stated this before, but I don't mind Shep dying as a result of saving the galaxy(like in an explosion) but if he/she has to die in order to save the galaxy I would be disappointed. In fact when I read about the bad endings that is what I assumed it would be.
.

 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

Modifié par Naseilen, 30 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[KneeTheCap]

About them whispers, do they actually form words? Would it be possible to clarify them somehow?

[Martukis]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I really think it would be convenient for Bioware to keep the Reapers alive. Delay them, temporarily disable them, but destroy them and you lose a very interesting enemy. They'd have to think of something else for sequels/prequels, but they couldn't just pull another "evil robot"-plot.

 Well, even if only a few survive it could still be viable - Sovereign proved that Reapers using guerilla tactics can still be quite effective. Though that would just add to evidence against the things the starchild talks about.

[Cleverly13]

The flashback that occurs when Shepard lays sight on the Destroy option is regarding what? It looks like Anderson shooting an identical device. Is this a scene from one of the earlier games? Because the whole Anderson thing near the end of the game is kind of up in the air. Also when Shepard chooses to Destroy the Reapers, he gets images from certain characters and Anderson is nodding in one of them.

Whole thing seems kind of strange.

[njfluffy19]

Cleverly13 wrote...

The flashback that occurs when Shepard lays sight on the Destroy option is regarding what? It looks like Anderson shooting an identical device. Is this a scene from one of the earlier games? Because the whole Anderson thing near the end of the game is kind of up in the air. Also when Shepard chooses to Destroy the Reapers, he gets images from certain characters and Anderson is nodding in one of them.

Whole thing seems kind of strange.

It's your subconscious telling you which option Anderson/Illusive Man/Shepard would choose.

[Miss Vader]

Pascal219 wrote...

So I just started replaying Mass Effect (1) and there is something I noticed after the Eden Prime mission. There are Whispers! When Shepard talks to Chakwas about the vision he received from the Prothean beacon, you can clearly hear it in the background!

www.youtube.com/watch

Perhaps it is major strawgrasping, but I found it interesting nonetheless! 

Edit: Inserted the right link and by the way, the whispers get broken up by none other then Anderson!

Very good find! I love how, like you said, Anderson is the one to stop the whispers

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Dance Craze wrote...

I find it interesting that when you first see Anderson in the citadel during the last mission, he appears to be sitting in a chair and looks just like the illusive man...

Dude! Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. In fact, when I moved closer, I thought "hold on a minute.. why is TIM there.. am I on Cronos station?" Especially since the view is very similar.. (The big window)

[Martukis]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Cleverly13 wrote...

The flashback that occurs when Shepard lays sight on the Destroy option is regarding what? It looks like Anderson shooting an identical device. Is this a scene from one of the earlier games? Because the whole Anderson thing near the end of the game is kind of up in the air. Also when Shepard chooses to Destroy the Reapers, he gets images from certain characters and Anderson is nodding in one of them.

Whole thing seems kind of strange.

It's your subconscious telling you which option Anderson/Illusive Man/Shepard would choose.

 I'd like to believe this, really, though I think it would also be cool if TIM appeared stern faced and nodding with control.

[Gernbuster]

Pascal219 wrote...

So I just started replaying Mass Effect (1) and there is something I noticed after the Eden Prime mission. There are Whispers! When Shepard talks to Chakwas about the vision he received from the Prothean beacon, you can clearly hear it in the background!

www.youtube.com/watch

Perhaps it is major strawgrasping, but I found it interesting nonetheless! 

Edit: Inserted the right link and by the way, the whispers get broken up by none other then Anderson!

IF we assume that the whole ME story was already completet before the first game got released. This is REALLY interessting. Don't forget about Souvereigns signal when you walk around on Eden Prime, (clearly try for indoctrination,) Why else should it feel like sombody is cutting in your head?
GJ

[Mich-cz]

Naseilen wrote...
 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

I would not be surprised if Shepard wakes up only to discover that crucible did nothing - that it was merely a tool, a way how to get all races to together.

A message that reapers could be defeated by regullary means. Only with cooperation of all races.
That would be a nice twist.

Modifié par Mich-cz, 30 mars 2012 - 01:13 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Mich-cz wrote...

Naseilen wrote...
 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

I would not be surprised if Shepard wakes up only to discover that crucible did nothing - that it was merely a tool, a way how to get all races to together.

A message that reapers could be defeated by regullary means. Only with cooperation of all races.
That would be a nice twist.

I actually posted that theory a few hundred pages ago.. but.. nobody cared

"evidence" for this could be how Hackett states that the Crucible is not firing. and then, when Shep tries to help, suddenly the whole thing starts.

[njfluffy19]

Hmm. Just noticed something else weird-- but it was probably already mentioned. Above someone said it sort of looks like Anderson is actually TIM sitting in his chair from far away. Just watched this: and though it doesn't look exactly like it to me, it's similar. Also note the round circle on the floor.

Now watch this:

Similar glowing circle... though much smaller, obviously.

Probably nothing, but interesting... Well, to me anyway. At this point, I'm taking everything as proof. Haha.

[njfluffy19]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Mich-cz wrote...

Naseilen wrote...
 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

I would not be surprised if Shepard wakes up only to discover that crucible did nothing - that it was merely a tool, a way how to get all races to together.

A message that reapers could be defeated by regullary means. Only with cooperation of all races.
That would be a nice twist.

I actually posted that theory a few hundred pages ago.. but.. nobody cared

"evidence" for this could be how Hackett states that the Crucible is not firing. and then, when Shep tries to help, suddenly the whole thing starts.

What do you mean by when Shep tries to help, suddenly the whole thing starts? That Shep is imagining it starting or that Shepard joining in the fight makes it start?

[Big Bad]

A thought I just had - Some IT skeptics claim that the end is so weird because Bioware got lazy or just plain ran out of time. However, this really doesn't make sense. It's not as if they actually create the entire game in chronological order. The story would be created first and then they would create the game itself, but they wouldn't do it following the chronological order of the story. So, if they really did just run out of time, why are the effects only seen at the very end? That doesn't add up.

[Rifneno]

Mich-cz wrote...

Naseilen wrote...
 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

I would not be surprised if Shepard wakes up only to discover that crucible did nothing - that it was merely a tool, a way how to get all races to together.

A message that reapers could be defeated by regullary means. Only with cooperation of all races.
That would be a nice twist.

Except... they can't.  We're told repeatedly that we simply cannot win conventionally.  And it's true, we can't.  There's just a jawdropping amount of those things.  Capital ships number in the thousands easily, likely the tens of thousands.  Destroyers are said to make the great majority of the Reapers' forces so there's what, like, millions of those?  It took the concentrated fire of the Migrant Fleet to bring one down.  Capital ships typically require 3+ dreadnoughts or WMD such as thermonuclear bombs.  Even the united forces of the galaxy doesn't stand a chance against the Reaper fleet.  There's just far too many of them and they're far too powerful.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Well, just another metapher, maybe. Shep gets up, and while he doesn't really do anything, the elevator part starts. So the Crucible won't work without Sheps actions.

[Gernbuster]

Rifneno wrote...

Mich-cz wrote...

Naseilen wrote...
 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

I would not be surprised if Shepard wakes up only to discover that crucible did nothing - that it was merely a tool, a way how to get all races to together.

A message that reapers could be defeated by regullary means. Only with cooperation of all races.
That would be a nice twist.

Except... they can't.  We're told repeatedly that we simply cannot win conventionally.  And it's true, we can't.  There's just a jawdropping amount of those things.  Capital ships number in the thousands easily, likely the tens of thousands.  Destroyers are said to make the great majority of the Reapers' forces so there's what, like, millions of those?  It took the concentrated fire of the Migrant Fleet to bring one down.  Capital ships typically require 3+ dreadnoughts or WMD such as thermonuclear bombs.  Even the united forces of the galaxy doesn't stand a chance against the Reaper fleet.  There's just far too many of them and they're far too powerful.

The whole galaxie united is no conventional situation.
But thats definitly something we can't argue about. Thats completly up the the storywriters.
If they would tell us:"Hey Asari ships are incredible strong against shields and Turians are strong against their armour." It would be possible, who knows what may get revealed in the future.
Remember the German army after beginning of WWII. Everyone was afraid, modern tech, many strong soldiers, new strategy. The allies were completly overtasked and many people rumored that the Germans were undefeatable as well. And look what happend a few years after.
Everyone got his weakpoint.
for example: German Kingtiger tank, or even the normal one were nearly undistructable. Until somebody recognized they were slowly and if burn the backside with flamethrowers or molotovcoktails, the crew inside dies in a few minutes.

Everything is possible in war.

[Gerbil Fetus]

For ages i was pretty darn sure the Catalyst was a trap....it still could be. The Mcguffinness of it has echos of the Autobot Matrix of Leadership from the 80's too/ Death Star/ the Ultimate Nullifier from Fantastic Four.

I mean the Reapers have been known to have backup plans, and if they are all in on Harbingers plan to Indoctrinate Shepard, they could have used it and him and planned to bring all the races in one spot.

Although that seems very Return of the Jedi
Emperor: "everything has transpired according to MY Design!"
Or
Ackbar: " ITS A TRAP!"

They even have the object they are trying to get to floating in orbit of an a Planet with a hugeass fleet battle going on.

[Abdul_777]

I thought Hackett said that the name Crucible was given by the Alliance scientists and wasn't translated from prothean,could be wrong though.

[Gerbil Fetus]

There is no real reason why they never went straight to the Citadel, caught it and then used their Divde and Conquer plan they used with the Protheans.

Unless they deliberately avoided doing so.

What if they change up their attack plan every few cycles? Whose to say they havent played different gametypes?

If they are big forward thinkers like they seem, it would make sense. They had the citadel relay to attack from, they had the Alpha Relay as Backup....theoretically there could be a past cylce where they used them simultaneously, attacking from two fronts.

[Gerbil Fetus]

So maybe the Crucible plan is all part of their plan for this cycle?

[Chipikowski]

Gernbuster wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Mich-cz wrote...

Naseilen wrote...
 I wrote:
That means that, metaphorically, Shepard is The Catalyst.  Not physically.
Not by device activation and pressing the button, but as a man who is trying to unite alien nations.
In that case The Crucible =/= The Device Which is Ultimate Weapon
The Crucible = The melting pot metaphor = Union of  Races

I would not be surprised if Shepard wakes up only to discover that crucible did nothing - that it was merely a tool, a way how to get all races to together.

A message that reapers could be defeated by regullary means. Only with cooperation of all races.
That would be a nice twist.

Except... they can't.  We're told repeatedly that we simply cannot win conventionally.  And it's true, we can't.  There's just a jawdropping amount of those things.  Capital ships number in the thousands easily, likely the tens of thousands.  Destroyers are said to make the great majority of the Reapers' forces so there's what, like, millions of those?  It took the concentrated fire of the Migrant Fleet to bring one down.  Capital ships typically require 3+ dreadnoughts or WMD such as thermonuclear bombs.  Even the united forces of the galaxy doesn't stand a chance against the Reaper fleet.  There's just far too many of them and they're far too powerful.

The whole galaxie united is no conventional situation.
But thats definitly something we can't argue about. Thats completly up the the storywriters.
If they would tell us:"Hey Asari ships are incredible strong against shields and Turians are strong against their armour." It would be possible, who knows what may get revealed in the future.
Remember the German army after beginning of WWII. Everyone was afraid, modern tech, many strong soldiers, new strategy. The allies were completly overtasked and many people rumored that the Germans were undefeatable as well. And look what happend a few years after.
Everyone got his weakpoint.
for example: German Kingtiger tank, or even the normal one were nearly undistructable. Until somebody recognized they were slowly and if burn the backside with flamethrowers or molotovcoktails, the crew inside dies in a few minutes.

Everything is possible in war.

Exactly. Plus there was the strange moment in the battle against Sovereign where it didn't seem to take that much to take him down as soon as his shields dropped. Joker hit his "belly" with the main cannon and he went down. I wondered if they'd introduce this as their weak spot...So basically all the Crucible needed to do was take the shields down so the Fleet could kill the Reapers "with bug bites". No Starchild, no nothing. Why, Bioware...?