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[leewells]

Kroen135 wrote...

@njfluffy19
Yeah the different ways Shepard acts is definitely a good indicator towards the IT. Some people counter that it's "just adrenaline" but honestly I have trouble believing BW would make him act differently in each ending and write it off as "just adrenaline"

I saw some posts earlier in this MASSIVE thread that mentioned some possible candidates for "Jungle planet" that the Normandy SR-2 lands on. I played ME2 last night and did Zorya (Zaeed loyalty) and Aite (Prjoect:Overlord) and I believe it to more closely resemble Zorya mainly because from the view you get near the start it looks almost identical with the tropical trees and all. Where as Aite (although moons are there, they are a bit off sized) there are very little tropical trees that I could see.

The strongest indicator, by far, is the dreams... Only someone that is completely ignorant of ME1 and ME2 can look at those dreams and not see any connection to indoctrination (especailly after the ghost-child turns out to be the boy he had been seeing and had these dreams about).

[leewells]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...


-At a 2050 readiness rating if you choose to become a reaper Earth is saved 

-At a 2350 readiness rating if you choose to control the reapers earth is saved

Is there a difference in "choose to become a reaper" and "choose to control the reapers"?

Not quite sure why that is worded like that...

I would assume they meant control, but I don't know. I don't think they meant synthesis.

They can't mean synthesis because it doesn't become available until 2800 EMS according to the Offical guide.

Very interesting

No, you're litterally given the option to become a reaper which "sedates" the catalyst for that cycle.  Youa re told, strait up, you loose, but you can redeem yourself and the reapers will show mercy if you volunteer to be made into a reaper.

Modifié par leewells, 30 mars 2012 - 03:27 .

[LostLogics]

The Indoctrination Theory. I hadn't really had the time to look into it. I was just really really pissed at the game ending being the way it is.
I really really hope this is it though. In the frame of the Indoctrination Theory most of the ending makes sense, as well as some of the twists in ME3. Thank you all the members of the community that has taken the time to work this out and present it. It's really made a huge difference in how I perceived the game. Now, I hope BioWare will come and present the DLC that continues if you make the right choice at the end of the indoctrination on the catalyst.

[njfluffy19]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...


-At a 2050 readiness rating if you choose to become a reaper Earth is saved 

-At a 2350 readiness rating if you choose to control the reapers earth is saved

Is there a difference in "choose to become a reaper" and "choose to control the reapers"?

Not quite sure why that is worded like that...

I would assume they meant control, but I don't know. I don't think they meant synthesis.

They can't mean synthesis because it doesn't become available until 2800 EMS according to the Offical guide.

Very interesting

The link is here: http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62329516

The OP could have just snatched it from elsewhere like I did. In the official guide does it say anything about "become a Reaper"? That would be... interesting.

[Kroen135]

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

[njfluffy19]

leewells wrote...

No, you're litterally given the option to become a reaper which "sedates" the catalyst for that cycle.  Youa re told, strait up, you loose, but you can redeem yourself and the reapers will show mercy if you volunteer to be made into a reaper.

Are you being serious? Is there a video of this anywhere? I wanna see!

[Kroen135]

njfluffy19 wrote...

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...


-At a 2050 readiness rating if you choose to become a reaper Earth is saved 

-At a 2350 readiness rating if you choose to control the reapers earth is saved

Is there a difference in "choose to become a reaper" and "choose to control the reapers"?

Not quite sure why that is worded like that...

I would assume they meant control, but I don't know. I don't think they meant synthesis.

They can't mean synthesis because it doesn't become available until 2800 EMS according to the Offical guide.

Very interesting

The link is here: http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62329516

The OP could have just snatched it from elsewhere like I did. In the official guide does it say anything about "become a Reaper"? That would be... interesting.

Yeah I have the guide right here beside me and it says 

Readiness rating (EMS) below 1750 points, earth is destroyed regardless of the choice to destroythe reapers or become one.

Collector base saved 

At a  1,750 readiness rating, if you choose to destroy the reapers, earth is destroyed.

At a 2,050 readiness reating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.

Collector base destroyed

At a 1,750 readiness rating, if you choose to become a reaper, Earth is destroyed

[njfluffy19]

Oohh, I never knew of this.

That's interesting. So I guess that is the worst case scenario and you "lose".

[Kroen135]

Honestly, I've only beaten it twice and it was always at 5k + EMS so I'm not sure. I would like a you tube link of it or a source page if possible.

If you actually can choose to be a reaper then yeah, If it is IT then you pretty much get "Assuming direct control" lol

[MrDudley]

[Flash_Death]

Kroen135 wrote...

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

But if you shoot TIM instead of letting him shoot himself, he has a line about seeing earth they way he does and his eyes turn back to looking "human".

[njfluffy19]

So I found this video of extremely low EMS with a few interesting points:

http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62329516 "You have choice, more than you deserve." Buuuurn.

Still looking for one with the "become a reaper" ending.

[Stigweird85]

Kroen135 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...


-At a 2050 readiness rating if you choose to become a reaper Earth is saved 

-At a 2350 readiness rating if you choose to control the reapers earth is saved

Is there a difference in "choose to become a reaper" and "choose to control the reapers"?

Not quite sure why that is worded like that...

I would assume they meant control, but I don't know. I don't think they meant synthesis.

They can't mean synthesis because it doesn't become available until 2800 EMS according to the Offical guide.

Very interesting

The link is here: http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62329516

The OP could have just snatched it from elsewhere like I did. In the official guide does it say anything about "become a Reaper"? That would be... interesting.

Yeah I have the guide right here beside me and it says 

Readiness rating (EMS) below 1750 points, earth is destroyed regardless of the choice to destroythe reapers or become one.

Collector base saved 

At a  1,750 readiness rating, if you choose to destroy the reapers, earth is destroyed.

At a 2,050 readiness reating, if you choose to become a Reaper, Earth is saved.

Collector base destroyed

At a 1,750 readiness rating, if you choose to become a reaper, Earth is destroyed

It states become a reaper in the official prima guide, I posted it a few hundred pages back

[Rifneno]

njfluffy19 wrote...

The link is here: http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/62329516

The OP could have just snatched it from elsewhere like I did. In the official guide does it say anything about "become a Reaper"? That would be... interesting.

Holy crap, it does.  "if you choose to become a Reaper"  Its exact words.

[Kroen135]

Flash_Death wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

But if you shoot TIM instead of letting him shoot himself, he has a line about seeing earth they way he does and his eyes turn back to looking "human".

Is that so? I'll have to take a look at that again I never noticed that. Would it be possible to post a video link?

[leewells]

njfluffy19 wrote...

leewells wrote...

No, you're litterally given the option to become a reaper which "sedates" the catalyst for that cycle.  Youa re told, strait up, you loose, but you can redeem yourself and the reapers will show mercy if you volunteer to be made into a reaper.

Are you being serious? Is there a video of this anywhere? I wanna see!

It is pure hearsey, I haven't figured out how to get my readiness that low.

[njfluffy19]

leewells wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

leewells wrote...

No, you're litterally given the option to become a reaper which "sedates" the catalyst for that cycle.  Youa re told, strait up, you loose, but you can redeem yourself and the reapers will show mercy if you volunteer to be made into a reaper.

Are you being serious? Is there a video of this anywhere? I wanna see!

It is pure hearsey, I haven't figured out how to get my readiness that low.

I wouldn't have the heart to do it myself. But if someone got their EMS to 1600, it's obviously possible.

[ULS 980]

Kroen135 wrote...

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

The pattern of the eyes for Renegade Shepard is completely different. The circles around the pupil are flipped.
So the "indoctrination eyes" have two orbs under the pupils (and one above) and the "renegade eyes" have two orbs above the pupils (and one below).
Furthermore, I don't think there's a ring around the pupil that connects the orbs in the Renegade eyes like there is in the indoctrination eyes.
Also, the orbs in the indoctrination eyes are much bigger than the orbs in the Renegade eyes.

Modifié par ULS 980, 30 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[Flash_Death]

Kroen135 wrote...

Flash_Death wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

But if you shoot TIM instead of letting him shoot himself, he has a line about seeing earth they way he does and his eyes turn back to looking "human".

Is that so? I'll have to take a look at that again I never noticed that. Would it be possible to post a video link?

   look at around 1:05

[Kroen135]

ULS 980 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

The pattern of the eyes for Renegade Shepard is completely different. The circles around the pupil are flipped.
So the "indoctrination eyes" have two orbs under the pupils (and one above) and the "renegade eyes" have two orbs above the pupils (and one below).
Furthermore, I don't think there's a ring around the pupil that connects the orbs in the Renegade eyes like there is in the indoctrination eyes.

Yeah, you could be right, just trying to say that they could very well be just prosthetics since it is explained that TIM lost his eye sight. 

I am not sure either way, just know that technically shep has prosthetic eyes, so when his skin is melting away in the 2 endings (control/synthesis) it could just be melting down to his eyes which are prosthetic (according to "the lazarus project")

[njfluffy19]

Anyone noticed EDI has the same eye design, but they don't glow?

[Jaxitty]

Has it been checked to see if any others that are Indovtrinated have eyes similar to TIM? Like Lang?

@njfluffy19 realize that edi's body weas likely build with reaper tech and she's definately programmed with reaper code.

Modifié par Jaxitty, 30 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[njfluffy19]

Kroen135 wrote...

ULS 980 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

I am not saying this to defeat the IT (in fact it could directly support it) but everyone keeps hitting on the eyes as a sign of indoctrination. They are not (atleast not always) if you pay attention to ME2, and possibly ME 3 not sure about scarring only did paragon; If you stay renegade and don't upgrade the med bay your scars get worse, at near full your eyes are a red version of the eyes just like TIM.

I believe them to be merely prosthetic eyes. TIM has them because (from the book about the reaper artifact on Palaven) Jack Harper (aka. TIM) had his sight destroyed by the reaper artifact. Thus explaining why he has prosthetics.

As I said, this could be evidence of IT if they use the eyes as symbolism rather than using them as cosmetic. Since, of course, they only show on sheperd after he is rebuilt (some say with reaper tech). So just keep that in mind when you reference the eyes.

The pattern of the eyes for Renegade Shepard is completely different. The circles around the pupil are flipped.
So the "indoctrination eyes" have two orbs under the pupils (and one above) and the "renegade eyes" have two orbs above the pupils (and one below).
Furthermore, I don't think there's a ring around the pupil that connects the orbs in the Renegade eyes like there is in the indoctrination eyes.

Yeah, you could be right, just trying to say that they could very well be just prosthetics since it is explained that TIM lost his eye sight. 

I am not sure either way, just know that technically shep has prosthetic eyes, so when his skin is melting away in the 2 endings (control/synthesis) it could just be melting down to his eyes which are prosthetic (according to "the lazarus project")

But why would they glow?

[njfluffy19]

Jaxitty wrote...

Has it been checked to see if any others that are Indovtrinated have eyes similar to TIM? Like Lang?

Saren's eyes glow.

[Kroen135]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Jaxitty wrote...

Has it been checked to see if any others that are Indovtrinated have eyes similar to TIM? Like Lang?

Saren's eyes glow.

As do ME2 renegade Shepard's eyes