57139 réponses à ce sujet

[njfluffy19]

Ahahaaha. Indeed it is.

[Topsider]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Topsider wrote...


It works both ways. Maybe YOU are wrong? Did you ever think of that? FAN theories are not fact and never will be until confirmed by Bioware. I prefer to judge a game by what I bought and experienced, not a bunch of dumb theories to explain a crap ending. Paying extra for "true endings" would add insult to injury. I'll accept the current end... much better than the alternative.

Now you just sound like a butthurt individual with nothing constructive to say. I am now ignoring you.

heh, fine, that's your right. Doesn't change the fact that fan theories have no bearing on the game itself. When Bioware releases DLC that does not confirm indoctrination, what then? Will people continue to support it? I expect so. 

[IronSabbath88]

Just a statement here.

I have a good friend whose played both ME games and is a big fan like myself. He has yet to finish ME3, but he's getting close.

Anyway, he's absolutely convinced that something isn't quite right. He's an aspiring writer himself and even he agrees that the dream sequences serve no other purpose unless there was a hidden meaning to it all. He's also becoming certain that indoctrination is definitely a force at work in this game.

He's never even BEEN to the forums and he thinks that people who aren't believing that something bigger is going on are just ridiculous.

[byne]

Topsider wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Topsider wrote...


It works both ways. Maybe YOU are wrong? Did you ever think of that? FAN theories are not fact and never will be until confirmed by Bioware. I prefer to judge a game by what I bought and experienced, not a bunch of dumb theories to explain a crap ending. Paying extra for "true endings" would add insult to injury. I'll accept the current end... much better than the alternative.

Now you just sound like a butthurt individual with nothing constructive to say. I am now ignoring you.

heh, fine, that's your right. Doesn't change the fact that fan theories have no bearing on the game itself. When Bioware releases DLC that does not confirm indoctrination, what then? Will people continue to support it? I expect so. 

If the DLC sucks as bas as the current endings do, I'll keep indoctrination as my headcanon.

If the DLC is great but doesnt support indoctrination, I'll gracefully admit I was wrong.

[benben84]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Just a statement here.

I have a good friend whose played both ME games and is a big fan like myself. He has yet to finish ME3, but he's getting close.

Anyway, he's absolutely convinced that something isn't quite right. He's an aspiring writer himself and even he agrees that the dream sequences serve no other purpose unless there was a hidden meaning to it all. He's also becoming certain that indoctrination is definitely a force at work in this game.

He's never even BEEN to the forums and he thinks that people who aren't believing that something bigger is going on are just ridiculous.

My brother does not have internet and I've not talked about I.T. it with him and he believes that you are being indoctrinated as well.  Especially the dream sequences and how you are controlled and act funny during the TIM/Anderson scene along with the "complete nonsense with the VI child" as he put it.

[UKHaz]

Discusses some good ideas for BioWare to use for a new, improved ending...

[Sammuthegreat]

njfluffy19 wrote...

I think what people find to be the hard pill to swallow is that if the IDT is in fact true, the endings are not truly the endings. What will happen to people who live in the Boonies and can't download DLC? WIll they never get to experience the real endings? What about people who aren't as invested as more diehard fans and won't even take note of DLC? How does that work? Do the endings still count for those people? What about all the dudes and dudettes who returned their games?

That and all the backlash they've received. Those are points I can understand being of debate. If IDT, they didn't sell us a full game out of the box. The DLC could still be free, but some people wouldn't be able to download it. Rare cases, I'm sure, but it's still probable they would never experience a true ending.

I think there's a few things to consider here.

1) The controversy surrounding the endings has been pretty much entirely internet-based, both complaints and responses from BioWare. Chances are if players don't have the internet, they won't even know about the storm that's kicked up.

2) If they have internet but their Xbox/PS3 isn't connected to it (I'm not including PC because if you have internet chances are your PC is connected, otherwise why else have internet? Plus if you can afford a computer capable of running ME3, it seems absurd not to have internet too), and they want the new ending, then it's not like they have to buy a Live/PSN subscription to get it. Xbox Live Silver memberships and PSN are both free.

3) If they have internet, and can connect to Live/PSN/PC equivalent (Origin?) but they don't know about the Retake movement or Indoc Theory, then chances are they don't care enough for it to make a difference to them whether they get the ending or not. If they do know about the ending controversy, then they can make their own mind up about whether or not to get the DLC.

4) If they don't have internet but do really care about the endings, but can't get them due to lack of online functionality... well, this is such a small percentage of players these days that it likely won't factor heavily into BioWare/EA's decision making. Sounds a bit brutal, but I think it's the reality, and I can't honestly condemn it.

As for not giving us a "complete" game out of the box... I fully support IT, and I'm around 70-80% sure that it was planned all along by BioWare. With that in mind I'm also leaning towards thinking the DLC (true ending unlock via [hopefully voluntary] patch) will be free, if not only because BioWare will want to avoid another enormous controversy and fan backlash. Putting 2 and 2 together here means that technically BioWare didn't give us an incomplete game - even if it took an extra month to actually access the ending...

[hwf]

IronSabbath88 wrote...
[...]  an aspiring writer himself and even he agrees that the dream sequences serve no other purpose unless there was a hidden meaning to it all. He's also becoming certain that indoctrination is definitely a force at work in this game.

Yes, I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before because a little over 26000 posts is a bit too much to read through...

In the ME2 Arrival DLC you can play back a log entry by the lab tech that sedated and imprisoned Shepard.
She talks about how she is constantly having nightmares in which a giant ship is crawling through the Citadel and she has to watch as her friends turn to dust.
Seemed very similar to the nightmares Shepard is having.

[AnsinJung]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Topsider wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I don't know how much more compelling thoughts we have to put into this theory, we'll still always have people denying it.

Perhaps they're just not happy they got fooled.

I particularly liked the guy that said the control ending being labelled internally as "bad" was grasping at straws because file names don't mean anything. One of the few so ridiculous I had to actually LOL at it.

njfluffy19 wrote...

I think it's because EDI's ****** had to be countered.

http://i.imgur.com/wMqTD.jpg

Edit: Image removed because I puked in my mouth.

... Huh. My renegade Shep told Joker that the Normandy's pilot seat was the closest he'd ever get to being inside his girlfriend. I guess I owe him two kinds of apologies then.

njfluffy19 wrote...

Topsider wrote...


I read just fine. What I don't accept is that Bioware will change their endings to appease rabid fans. There's no easy way out of this mess, especially when some people are demanding FREE dlc or no deal. Not a chance of that happening. Bioware should clarify the endings, add some decent closure, but never, EVER, use a fan theory. And no, I don't believe they planned any of this. Indoc is a fan theory, nothing more. It is BS to me, and will remain BS even if Bioware succumbed to fan pressure. At least have some integrity and stand by your decisions, even if the original ending is crap.

*Stomps feet* And it never be real! Never! I don't believe any of it! It's all BS. Waaa, waaa, waaa.

We aren't forcing our views on you, sir or madam, so I don't know why your knickers are in such a knot. They have clearly stated that this story is "not the last of Shepard" whether it be DLC before or after the current endings. That's fine. Whatever. It could also be just another hint that the endings are not the "true" endings. They aren't pandering to us fans. They promised a product and didn't deliver-- we're all right in our own regard to be upset with them for false advertising if the endings are true as they stand now. It wouldn't be "wrong" of them to take into consideration this theory just because it is "fan theory". It's not like Bioware is the be-all-end-all of writing. Geeze. If you really feel that way why don't you go burn your copy of ME3 and sing Kumbaya or something.

Ha! Well said. It's hilarious how people like that are so positive they couldn't possibly be WRONG about something.

It works both ways. Maybe YOU are wrong? Did you ever think of that? FAN theories are not fact and never will be until confirmed by Bioware. I prefer to judge a game by what I bought and experienced, not a bunch of dumb theories to explain a crap ending. Paying extra for "true endings" would add insult to injury. I'll accept the current end... much better than the alternative.

Ehm the fact taht we refer to this as a Theory and not as Fact dident allready tip you of to the fact that we are not saying this is how it is, but how it can be? Also we are still not promoting payed DLC, if you actually looked at what people wrote you would see that we would be as butt hurt as anyone else if they demanded money for a Ending DLC.

Actually that's exactly what I've been wondering:  where do people stand on paying for DLC ending?  Assume it's as high quality as the better parts of the Mass Effect series.  Now obviously, it would be better if it's free or perhaps included with From Ashes or something, but if the DLC is good enough and everything fits as IT suggests, I'll probably buy it.  

We've all seen "To Be Continued" in the past.  It's frustrating and exciting at the same time.  This is insanely optimistic, but maybe Bioware was hoping for us to catch more of the excitement and less of the frustration.  Furthermore, and I know some people already hate this argument, we always knew there would be DLC and many of us planned to buy it if it was at least decent like Arrival, ideally LotSB quality. 

As original proponents of IT suggested, maybe this is Bioware's grand experiment, a foray into a somewhat new experience.  It's potentially the best twist since KotoR's.  If true, they  probably underestimated the negative reaction.  At the same time, it's undeniably drawn attention to the series.  If it works out in the end, maybe they'll benefit more as well as the consumer.  It's hard to imagine given the negativity, but it's something you'll remember a long, long time.

It's been said that Bioware's own statements disprove indoctrination theory, but they wouldn't spoil what is meant to be a surprise.  The didn't say anything of substance, except "April," and that they are listening.  Ironically, if IT or some other ending fix doesn't happen, that just makes them dishonest in their statements before release, which in turn gives almost no reason to believe them now, except for the fact that dollars are at stake.  But dollars are always at stake.  If they didn't know that before, they do now.

About Shepard resisting indoctrination:  even though the video paints the three ending choices as the last attempt of the Reapers, I don't think it intends to portray Shepard as becoming forever immune.  Perhaps that would fortify Shepard enough to complete the mission, but if the war dragged on too long, the problem would return.

[njfluffy19]

I hope you're right Sammu. I really do.

I started to wonder what the percentages of people who play Mass Effect are on pc, xbox and ps3. I would assume xbox would be the majority, since that's where it originated. Maybe it's already on the disc for consoles, but I doubt it. People have said it doesn't seem like there's that much unaccounted space.

[RyanHensley2010]

byne wrote...

Topsider wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Topsider wrote...


It works both ways. Maybe YOU are wrong? Did you ever think of that? FAN theories are not fact and never will be until confirmed by Bioware. I prefer to judge a game by what I bought and experienced, not a bunch of dumb theories to explain a crap ending. Paying extra for "true endings" would add insult to injury. I'll accept the current end... much better than the alternative.

Now you just sound like a butthurt individual with nothing constructive to say. I am now ignoring you.

heh, fine, that's your right. Doesn't change the fact that fan theories have no bearing on the game itself. When Bioware releases DLC that does not confirm indoctrination, what then? Will people continue to support it? I expect so. 

If the DLC sucks as bas as the current endings do, I'll keep indoctrination as my headcanon.

If the DLC is great but doesnt support indoctrination, I'll gracefully admit I was wrong.

As will most of us I'm sure (Not sarcasm)

[Slaiyer]

Can we keep on topic? If you have something constructive to say, please do. If you're just going to insult, please leave. If you are discussing IDT in a way that isn't just "I'm right, you're beyond wrong", then please stay, if not, please leave.

Thank you and have a good day.

[njfluffy19]

hwf wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...
[...]  an aspiring writer himself and even he agrees that the dream sequences serve no other purpose unless there was a hidden meaning to it all. He's also becoming certain that indoctrination is definitely a force at work in this game.

Yes, I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before because a little over 26000 posts is a bit too much to read through...

In the ME2 Arrival DLC you can play back a log entry by the lab tech that sedated and imprisoned Shepard.
She talks about how she is constantly having nightmares in which a giant ship is crawling through the Citadel and she has to watch as her friends turn to dust.
Seemed very similar to the nightmares Shepard is having.

I was curious about how to interpret this.

What do you think the ship is? The Crucible? Do you think it has to do with Shepard turning to space dust? Or do you think it has to do with Shepard dreaming of burning alive with the kid?

I think just the fact that all the sudden Shepard is havign these dream sequences is proof enough that something is amiss.

[Slaiyer]

njfluffy19 wrote...

hwf wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...
[...]  an aspiring writer himself and even he agrees that the dream sequences serve no other purpose unless there was a hidden meaning to it all. He's also becoming certain that indoctrination is definitely a force at work in this game.

Yes, I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before because a little over 26000 posts is a bit too much to read through...

In the ME2 Arrival DLC you can play back a log entry by the lab tech that sedated and imprisoned Shepard.
She talks about how she is constantly having nightmares in which a giant ship is crawling through the Citadel and she has to watch as her friends turn to dust.
Seemed very similar to the nightmares Shepard is having.

I was curious about how to interpret this.

What do you think the ship is? The Crucible? Do you think it has to do with Shepard turning to space dust? Or do you think it has to do with Shepard dreaming of burning alive with the kid?

I think just the fact that all the sudden Shepard is havign these dream sequences is proof enough that something is amiss.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is Sovereign in ME1. He is the only significant "ship" that flies through the Citadel and also carries death in his wake.

[Sammuthegreat]

njfluffy19 wrote...

I hope you're right Sammu. I really do.

I started to wonder what the percentages of people who play Mass Effect are on pc, xbox and ps3. I would assume xbox would be the majority, since that's where it originated. Maybe it's already on the disc for consoles, but I doubt it. People have said it doesn't seem like there's that much unaccounted space.

Me too 

Regarding unused space, I've heard anything between 1.5 and 4.5 GB of unaccounted space on the Xbox - supposedly each disc contains around 7.5GB of data, but when they're both installed there's only 10-11 GB on the hard drive. Only what I've read, mind you, so don't shoot the messenger if it's wrong!

EDIT: forgot to state, clearly that's enough for a substantial volume of data. Again my numbers may be off, but wasn't LotSB about 1.5 GB, and it was nearly 2 hours of solid gameplay? I think 4.5 GB of post-"ending" content is ludicrously optimistic, but even if there's just 1 GB of extra content already on disc that'd be plenty for me. We only need an hour at most to wrap things up satisfactorily post-indoctrination!

As for the dream sequences... it's just all too suspicious really. There was absolutely nothing like the dream sequences in ME1 or 2. It's too big and conspicuous a new plot device to include if there's nothing more to it than simple trauma dreams. And the dreams definitely aren't satisfactorily explained or dealt with (or even referred to) in-game for there NOT to be something more at play.

Modifié par Sammuthegreat, 30 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[njfluffy19]

Slaiyer wrote...


The first thing that comes to mind for me is Sovereign in ME1. He is the only significant "ship" that flies through the Citadel and also carries death in his wake.

That makes more sense. At that point Sovereign had already failed, but I guess that doesn't really mean she couldn't have images of it. They had been starting the "harvest" that way for millions of years before the Protheans.

[JustAidan]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

I think what people find to be the hard pill to swallow is that if the IDT is in fact true, the endings are not truly the endings. What will happen to people who live in the Boonies and can't download DLC? WIll they never get to experience the real endings? What about people who aren't as invested as more diehard fans and won't even take note of DLC? How does that work? Do the endings still count for those people? What about all the dudes and dudettes who returned their games?

That and all the backlash they've received. Those are points I can understand being of debate. If IDT, they didn't sell us a full game out of the box. The DLC could still be free, but some people wouldn't be able to download it. Rare cases, I'm sure, but it's still probable they would never experience a true ending.

I think there's a few things to consider here.

1) The controversy surrounding the endings has been pretty much entirely internet-based, both complaints and responses from BioWare. Chances are if players don't have the internet, they won't even know about the storm that's kicked up.

2) If they have internet but their Xbox/PS3 isn't connected to it (I'm not including PC because if you have internet chances are your PC is connected, otherwise why else have internet? Plus if you can afford a computer capable of running ME3, it seems absurd not to have internet too), and they want the new ending, then it's not like they have to buy a Live/PSN subscription to get it. Xbox Live Silver memberships and PSN are both free.

3) If they have internet, and can connect to Live/PSN/PC equivalent (Origin?) but they don't know about the Retake movement or Indoc Theory, then chances are they don't care enough for it to make a difference to them whether they get the ending or not. If they do know about the ending controversy, then they can make their own mind up about whether or not to get the DLC.

4) If they don't have internet but do really care about the endings, but can't get them due to lack of online functionality... well, this is such a small percentage of players these days that it likely won't factor heavily into BioWare/EA's decision making. Sounds a bit brutal, but I think it's the reality, and I can't honestly condemn it.

As for not giving us a "complete" game out of the box... I fully support IT, and I'm around 70-80% sure that it was planned all along by BioWare. With that in mind I'm also leaning towards thinking the DLC (true ending unlock via [hopefully voluntary] patch) will be free, if not only because BioWare will want to avoid another enormous controversy and fan backlash. Putting 2 and 2 together here means that technically BioWare didn't give us an incomplete game - even if it took an extra month to actually access the ending...

An extra month that allowed the majority of players to experience the mindscrew ending. With eager fans the twist would have been spoiled within 2-3 days at most, most regions were quite a bit behind that on Mass Effect 3's release date.

I also suspect that the ending DLC will be free but only to 1st hand buyers with 2nd hand customers having to pay to access the real ending.

This nicely covers EA (project 10 dollar anyone) hating on 2nd hand sales and bioware making a game with an ending that reflects the quality of the rest of the game.

[njfluffy19]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

I hope you're right Sammu. I really do.

I started to wonder what the percentages of people who play Mass Effect are on pc, xbox and ps3. I would assume xbox would be the majority, since that's where it originated. Maybe it's already on the disc for consoles, but I doubt it. People have said it doesn't seem like there's that much unaccounted space.

Me too 

Regarding unused space, I've heard anything between 1.5 and 4.5 GB of unaccounted space on the Xbox - supposedly each disc contains around 7.5GB of data, but when they're both installed there's only 10-11 GB on the hard drive. Only what I've read, mind you, so don't shoot the messenger if it's wrong!

As for the dream sequences... it's just all too suspicious really. There was absolutely nothing like the dream sequences in ME1 or 2. It's too big and conspicuous a new plot device to include if there's nothing more to it than simple trauma dreams. And the dreams definitely aren't satisfactorily explained or dealt with (or even referred to) in-game for there NOT to be something more at play.

Exactly. Shepard never mentions these dreams to Liara, nor his/her LI even after they ask him/her what's up. That bothered me. It's also clear things start weighing on Shep pretty heavily in the third game.

[Shooter__Andy]

Hey, I was wondering if there was some kind of wiki or something else for IT or should I jhust post my thoughts about the arguments yhat may or may not support it that I don't think were made (can't read all 1000+ pages, obviously, that's why I', wondering if there's a compilation) here?

[Sammuthegreat]

Shooter__Andy wrote...

Hey, I was wondering if there was some kind of wiki or something else for IT or should I jhust post my thoughts about the arguments yhat may or may not support it that I don't think were made (can't read all 1000+ pages, obviously, that's why I', wondering if there's a compilation) here?

Do it. Marauder Shields gave his life so you could have your say.

[Bill Casey]

There's a white circular light that shows up multiple times on three different circumstances...


1. During Shepard's Nightmares



2. While Shepard is plugged into the Geth Consensus



3. During the Ending

[Shooter__Andy]

Sammuthegreat wrote...
Do it. Marauder Shields gave his life so you could have your say.

Hah!

Ah well, if there is some sort of wiki or something (couldn't get access to the google-doc), I'll repost the points here later. Anyway, onward to writing now!

[Topsider]

benben84 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Just a statement here.

I have a good friend whose played both ME games and is a big fan like myself. He has yet to finish ME3, but he's getting close.

Anyway, he's absolutely convinced that something isn't quite right. He's an aspiring writer himself and even he agrees that the dream sequences serve no other purpose unless there was a hidden meaning to it all. He's also becoming certain that indoctrination is definitely a force at work in this game.

He's never even BEEN to the forums and he thinks that people who aren't believing that something bigger is going on are just ridiculous.

My brother does not have internet and I've not talked about I.T. it with him and he believes that you are being indoctrinated as well.  Especially the dream sequences and how you are controlled and act funny during the TIM/Anderson scene along with the "complete nonsense with the VI child" as he put it.

TIM/Anderson scene should not be part of an indoc "dream". That was a dramatic encounter itself but also leads to that final Shepard and Anderson moment which was extremely well done. I love the dialog there. The starchild is what people have issues with. I doubt Bioware will erase its existence though.

I don't actually hate the endings. Disappointed, yes. They attempted a surreal mystical end in a game unsuitable for that. No surprise they fell flat. If the rest of the ME series had been like 2001: A Space Odyssey then I'd understand such a conclusion. A sci-fi action RPG becoming "art" is just a bad idea in general.

[malikstarks2]

Just wanted to put myself on the record as a convert. It all makes way too much sense in light of what is foreshadowed throughout, as well as the events themselves at the end. Nothing against any of those still skeptical, but imo it actually takes more mental gymnastics to explain the endings as literal than symbolic/dream/indoctrination.

That said, if IT is true then while genius it is also some poor planning ahead by Bioware in the way it was executed. I think they were expecting healthy and fun debate instead of this, and regardless of the outcome there will be many with wounded pride (journalists included) that will look to take it out on Bioware.

Modifié par malikstarks2, 30 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[IronSabbath88]

malikstarks2 wrote...

Just wanted to put myself on the record as a convert. It all makes way too much sense in light of what is foreshadowed throughout, as well as the events themselves at the end. Nothing against any of those still skeptical, but imo it actually takes more of mental gymnastics to explain the endings as literal than symbolic/dream/indoctrination.

That said, if IT is true then while genius it is also some poor planning ahead by Bioware. I think they were expecting healthy and fun debate instead of this, and regardless of the outcome there will be many with wounded pride (journalists included) that will look to take it out on Bioware.

Very well said and exactly what I was thinking.

BioWare expected us to have fun speculation and did not expect the community and gaming sites in general to be THIS angry. It backfired on them.

That said, welcome aboard.