57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Little Princess Peach]

Bhatair wrote...

In advance. . . forgive me for not completely reading through a 1000+ page thread so I figure what I have to say has already been said. You know what they say about opinions though.

I do really like this. I'm a sucker for mind benders anyway, and this theory really ties up loose ends and plugs plot holes. It answers every inconsistancy and has a lot of (possibly coincidental) evidence to back it up. The only problem is. . . it's still a bad ending. Arguably this is a worse way to end a trilogy than taking the ending into account without it.

Don't misunderstand me, I apreciate the work the community put into researching this and like I said: I love the crap out of it, it's brilliant. It's just . . not an ending. It's half  an ending. It's a plot twist, a cliffhanger. You can't end a trilogy with:

"But all was not lost, amidst the rubble of the London streets a shining dog tag was seen, inscribed with the N7 designation. A single breath was drawn amongst the corpses. Commander Shepard was alive, it had all been in his/her mind. Indoctrination. The reapers had tried one last gambit but Shepard's will proved too strong."

Uh. . . ok. . . then what happens?

"What? Oh, then the reapers lose apparently. Shepard becomes a legend and stuff."

Wait. . . what? How? What about. . . everything else? If that was all just a dream then what really happened?

I just hope we aren't going to get a: "Oh alright fine, I'll tell you what really happened. . . for $10.00."

Again, this isn't the fault of the people who helped put this together. I just don't get why Bioware would release a game without and ending. . . unless they planned to add it in later.

So . . that's why I both like and dislike this theory. On the one hand it sure does fix what we have and turns a sub-par ending into a brilliant climax. On the other hand it really just makes me even angrier that there isn't any closure to this trilogy yet and if it does come, it will come with a price tag.

the old guy did say that some of the iformation was lost maybe he made it up like varric dose in da2

[malikstarks2]

Sire Styx wrote...

My idea why Miranda mentions the control chip:

so that we know TIM isn't controlling Shepard through a control chip at the end.

My thoughts exactly. (although again, probably already mentioned)

[byne]

Sire Styx wrote...

My idea why Miranda mentions the control chip:

so that we know TIM isn't controlling Shepard through a control chip at the end.

We already knew that though, since Miranda told us about how TIM didnt let her install a control chip in ME2.

I figure she just mentioned it because she felt bad, and not as part of some grand scheme from Bioware.

Same reason Kelly mentions spying on you for TIM.

Modifié par byne, 30 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[BinaryHelix101]

malikstarks2 wrote...

Yea now that I think about it she actually already did apologize a few times in ME2 ("I was wrong about you Shepard" etc.). As far as it being for new players that's what I thought while playing, but if you remove the events at the end from the equation it still makes little sense in context.

Even if new players are aware you were rebuilt by cerberus, why would they jump to the conclusion that you may have a control chip in your brain implanted by cerberus. Especially, given the fact you are fighting Cerberus, and ruining much of their plans throughout most of the game.

I think to clarify for new players that may be asking "if Shepard was at one time under Cerberus' care, and Cerberus is now his enemy, why didn't they install a control chip?" and that scene which we're reffering to in ME3 has Miranda saying Illusive Man didn't want it and why he didn't want it, which is news to everyone who didn't play ME2.

[hwf]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

The plot twist in KOTOR I was so intense that I was stunned for like 5 minutes. But then it all made so much sense. They set it up so well and delivered it perfectly.

This in particular reminded me of a thread I earmarked roughly nine months ago on this forum.

In this thread JamieCOTC (of femshep.com fame) and Marshalleck got in a debate about Cerberus/TIM not being indoctrinated.
Marshallack mentioned the following in that thread: "I think the only 'so-and-so got indoctrinated' plot I could stomach would be if it's Shepard, and it's written in such a way that the player themselves believe their Shepards have been doing the right thing, trying to save the galaxy all along. It would be an awesome parallel to Saren's story from ME1, and a bit of a twist on the KOTOR SPOILER AHEAD, WARNING WARNING Revan reveal in KOTOR. Bioware could execute it pretty well if they wanted to, I think."

The key thing is that other folks on the forum noticed an odd tweet by Bioware writer Patrick Weekes that had uncanny timing - suggesting it was keyed to this very argument!
While his twitter's privatised right now, his tweet is confirmed in the relevant BSN twitter thread.

How are your tin foil hats sitting now?

Modifié par hwf, 30 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[Bill Casey]

maxloef wrote...

Looks like legions silouhet to me

I captured the screenshot myself...
It is Shepard when you step onto a Geth Access point...

He fades away...
I left a little of him in to show it is indeed a different part of the game...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 30 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[monrapias]

Sire Styx wrote...

My idea why Miranda mentions the control chip:

so that we know TIM isn't controlling Shepard through a control chip at the end.

I think that was just there for the people who haven't played me2. cause we knew that from me2.

[byne]

hwf wrote...

How are your tin foil hats sitting now?

My tin foil hat is forcing me to wonder if they got the name Padok Wiks from Patrick Weekes.

They're kinda similar names.

[delldo]

BinaryHelix101 wrote...

maxloef wrote...

Looks like legions silouhet to me

Ugh, to you, and everyone else talking about it. It's obviously Shepard. The game is in 3rd person and the shadow of your character from behind still lingers there because the screen hasn't fully become white yet.

Here I made this to put it to rest, hopefully the image works...

[malikstarks2]

hwf wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

The plot twist in KOTOR I was so intense that I was stunned for like 5 minutes. But then it all made so much sense. They set it up so well and delivered it perfectly.

This in particular reminded me of a thread I earmarked roughly nine months ago on this forum.

In this thread JamieCOTC (of femshep.com fame) and Marshalleck got in a debate about Cerberus/TIM not being indoctrinated.
Marshallack mentioned the following in that thread: "I think the only 'so-and-so got indoctrinated' plot I could stomach would be if it's Shepard, and it's written in such a way that the player themselves believe their Shepards have been doing the right thing, trying to save the galaxy all along. It would be an awesome parallel to Saren's story from ME1, and a bit of a twist on the KOTOR SPOILER AHEAD, WARNING WARNING Revan reveal in KOTOR. Bioware could execute it pretty well if they wanted to, I think."

The key thing is that other folks on the forum noticed an odd tweet by Bioware writer Patrick Weekes that had uncanny timing - suggesting it was keyed to this very argument!
While his twitter's privatised right now, his tweet is confirmed in the relevant BSN twitter thread.

How are your tin foil hats sitting now?

Maybe should have a thread dedicated to this (if there isn't one already).

[savagejuicebox]

Bhatair wrote...

In advance. . . forgive me for not completely reading through a 1000+ page thread so I figure what I have to say has already been said. You know what they say about opinions though.

I do really like this. I'm a sucker for mind benders anyway, and this theory really ties up loose ends and plugs plot holes. It answers every inconsistancy and has a lot of (possibly coincidental) evidence to back it up. The only problem is. . . it's still a bad ending. Arguably this is a worse way to end a trilogy than taking the ending into account without it.

Don't misunderstand me, I apreciate the work the community put into researching this and like I said: I love the crap out of it, it's brilliant. It's just . . not an ending. It's half  an ending. It's a plot twist, a cliffhanger. You can't end a trilogy with:

"But all was not lost, amidst the rubble of the London streets a shining dog tag was seen, inscribed with the N7 designation. A single breath was drawn amongst the corpses. Commander Shepard was alive, it had all been in his/her mind. Indoctrination. The reapers had tried one last gambit but Shepard's will proved too strong."

Uh. . . ok. . . then what happens?

"What? Oh, then the reapers lose apparently. Shepard becomes a legend and stuff."

Wait. . . what? How? What about. . . everything else? If that was all just a dream then what really happened?

I just hope we aren't going to get a: "Oh alright fine, I'll tell you what really happened. . . for $10.00."

Again, this isn't the fault of the people who helped put this together. I just don't get why Bioware would release a game without and ending. . . unless they planned to add it in later.

So . . that's why I both like and dislike this theory. On the one hand it sure does fix what we have and turns a sub-par ending into a brilliant climax. On the other hand it really just makes me even angrier that there isn't any closure to this trilogy yet and if it does come, it will come with a price tag.

Well ya cant please em all!!

[Bill Casey]

Modifié par Bill Casey, 30 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Stigweird85]

okay replaying ME3

On final dream sequence and it definitely starts with TIM saying Shepard, there were some other echos. Thought I heard mistress of the deep? Don't know the context to that though

[njfluffy19]

bigstig wrote...

okay replaying ME3

On final dream sequence and it definitely starts with TIM saying Shepard, there were some other echos. Thought I heard mistress of the deep? Don't know the context to that though

Kalahera. It's one of Thane's goddesses. Mistress of the deep, guide this one to the... blah blah blah. It's what he prays for in the end, I believe.

[BinaryHelix101]

bigstig wrote...

okay replaying ME3

On final dream sequence and it definitely starts with TIM saying Shepard, there were some other echos. Thought I heard mistress of the deep? Don't know the context to that though

There's a thread about all the interesting stuff that can be heard during the dreams (not dead partymembers, but other whispers). Some pretty interesting stuff there.

http://social.biowar.../index/10654432

The thread is even riddled with IT speculation for good measure.

[Stigweird85]

BinaryHelix101 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

okay replaying ME3

On final dream sequence and it definitely starts with TIM saying Shepard, there were some other echos. Thought I heard mistress of the deep? Don't know the context to that though

There's a thread about all the interesting stuff that can be heard during the dreams (not dead partymembers, but other whispers). Some pretty interesting stuff there.

http://social.biowar.../index/10654432

The thread is even riddled with IT speculation for good measure.

Thanks I have been avoiding other threads as most just seemed to be Bioware blew it ME3 ending sux!!!! 

[canarius]

I finished the game a couple days ago and I was like WTF at the end. But I read the first post here and watched a few clips on youtube about the indoctrination theory, it makes sense now. I really hope this theory is correct. Now we just need a dlc to finish the game.

[Rifneno]

Topsider wrote...

TIM/Anderson scene should not be part of an indoc "dream". That was a dramatic encounter itself but also leads to that final Shepard and Anderson moment which was extremely well done. I love the dialog there. The starchild is what people have issues with. I doubt Bioware will erase its existence though.

Mars base
TIM: I don't expect you to understand, and I'm certainly not looking for your approval.

"Citadel"
Shepard: Why waste your time with us if you can control the Reapers?
TIM: Because... I need you to believe.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that wasn't part of it. Totally makes sense to leave it. It's not like Shepard shoots Anderson with a pistol and Anderson, who is wearing a bulletproof vest, dies for no particular reason because Shepard is the one with a magic bullet wound where he shot Anderson. No wait, that's exactly what happened. Yeah they should probably chalk that one up to IT.

malikstarks2 wrote...

I figure someone already mentioned this, but the whole meeting with Miranda in the Citadel apartments seemed odd to me at the time, where she apologizes to Shepard for advocating for a control chip only to be overruled by the Illusive Man. Basically apologizing for something that didn't happen.

Functionally I now see this as a warning to those who may have thought illusive man was controlling you during events at the end where you shoot Anderson. The only other plausible explanation being that you under Reaper control.

Don't forget that she also *****es about having to work with so many black boxes. In other words, TIM had tech in there he didn't tell her about. What, aside from Reaper tech, would he not want to tell her about? I'm drawing a blank.

[Little Princess Peach]

canarius wrote...

I finished the game a couple days ago and I was like WTF at the end. But I read the first post here and watched a few clips on youtube about the indoctrination theory, it makes sense now. I really hope this theory is correct. Now we just need a dlc to finish the game.

But what happends if it was all just a dream bioware could pull that stunt out of the virtual hat it makes me worry

[n00bsauce2010]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

canarius wrote...

I finished the game a couple days ago and I was like WTF at the end. But I read the first post here and watched a few clips on youtube about the indoctrination theory, it makes sense now. I really hope this theory is correct. Now we just need a dlc to finish the game.

But what happends if it was all just a dream bioware could pull that stunt out of the virtual hat it makes me worry

hmm. then bioware would really ****** people off in my opinion. You're talking about like a "Source Code" type thing right? His brain is just sitting there connected to some AI interface that makes him think everything is real. I don't really see the point in that

[njfluffy19]

Rifneno wrote...

Don't forget that she also *****es about having to work with so many black boxes. In other words, TIM had tech in there he didn't tell her about. What, aside from Reaper tech, would he not want to tell her about? I'm drawing a blank.

His Dr. Eva sexbots. :innocent:

[Rifneno]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Don't forget that she also *****es about having to work with so many black boxes. In other words, TIM had tech in there he didn't tell her about. What, aside from Reaper tech, would he not want to tell her about? I'm drawing a blank.

His Dr. Eva sexbots. :innocent:

...  You win this round. 

[n00bsauce2010]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Don't forget that she also *****es about having to work with so many black boxes. In other words, TIM had tech in there he didn't tell her about. What, aside from Reaper tech, would he not want to tell her about? I'm drawing a blank.

His Dr. Eva sexbots. :innocent:

with camel toes. Joker can actually screw her (the real synthesis)

[n00bsauce2010]

Hey any recent tweets hinting at IDT or anything like that?

[njfluffy19]

I'll take that as a no.