57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Carnage752]

Hello!

I just read the whole thing, and I laud you for your clues you have collected. But I'm deeply disturbed by the implications of your theory.

First and foremost, that would make the ending choices even more funneled than they already are. Lose, lose, win. That's it. And while yes I don't expect the fight to be easy, the fact no consequences are shown at all does nothing to help clarify any real difference of my choices.

Lastly, IT implies that Bioware made an incomplete ending. While the IT theory is genius if true, it is out of character with the series and should only serve as a side dish to what we truely want from the series: Choices and consequences. The IT implies that A: Bioware disregarded the style of the series just to put this conspiracy in. Or B: Bioware made an incomplete ending to either sell ending DLC to us or because the deadline prevented the endings from being finished.

I also want to point out two things:
The Prothean VI does not regard Shepard as indoctrinated.

If the indoctrination occurred on the Normandy, how come Vega is the only one to mention hums? How would an indoctrination device get on board in the first place?

[byne]

benben84 wrote...

Another thing I've been curious about is why did the Alliance make the Normandy so dark inside with metal tubes running all over the floors and all red glowing stuff. Seems unnecessary to change what color the electronics are...

Probably to make it seem more like a stealth ship. The same way the original Normandy was all dark inside.

The tubes running all over the place are just because the retrofit wasnt finished when the Reapers attacked.

[byne]

Carnage752 wrote...

I also want to point out two things:
The Prothean VI does not regard Shepard as indoctrinated.

If the indoctrination occurred on the Normandy, how come Vega is the only one to mention hums? How would an indoctrination device get on board in the first place?

For part one, I'll just copy/paste what I wrote in a different thread 30 seconds ago:

People give the prothean indoctrination detection far too much credit.

It's mentioned several times that the protheans themselves were betrayed from within by indoctrinated sleeper agents.

If they could detect with 100% certainty, that wouldnt ever happen.

Also, theres the fact that Kai Leng had to have been in the temple the entire time. Who do you think slit the throats of the scientists before Shep and Co arrived?

For part 2:

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

Modifié par byne, 30 mars 2012 - 09:45 .

[monrapias]

benben84 wrote...

Another thing I've been curious about is why did the Alliance make the Normandy so dark inside with metal tubes running all over the floors and all red glowing stuff. Seems unnecessary to change what color the electronics are...

I think it's just the alliance way, the ship in me1 is quite dark too.

[n00bsauce2010]

byne wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

How about we talk about indoctrination

Ok fine.

I brought this up a long time ago, but I dont think many people responded to it:

Could it be possible that the Reaper IFF we took from the Derelict Reaper is what has been slowly indoctrinating us?

I mean, you only have it for a short time in ME2, and then pretty quickly after getting it you hand the Normandy over to the Alliance, then when you get the Normandy back, and spend more time aboard it, you start having those dreams.

Well. Possibly. We know a dead reaper is still capable of indoctrinating folks. Even the the derelect reaper turned the researchers into husks. Also I think the leviathin of dis was the same as well.

[Shooter__Andy]

Carnage752 wrote...
-snip-

Well, first of all, we don't talk about the implications here. This is the thread about the theory, nor how it would affect the game world etc.

Second, while the basic theory implies the "lose, lose, win" situation, in fact it might mean anything - maybe even after the "wrong choice" Shepard will wake up, he/she will just, say, kill a squadmate in a critical moment or do something like that. So, in fact, it just provides the fround to continue the game, giving MORE choices, while the current ending kills Shepard in AT LEAST one ending (Blue), probably also in Green. This means the END of his/her story. The indoctrination doesn't.

[njfluffy19]

byne wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

I also want to point out two things:
The Prothean VI does not regard Shepard as indoctrinated.

If the indoctrination occurred on the Normandy, how come Vega is the only one to mention hums? How would an indoctrination device get on board in the first place?

For part one, I'll just copy/paste what I wrote in a different thread 30 seconds ago:

People give the prothean indoctrination detection far too much credit.

It's mentioned several times that the protheans themselves were betrayed from within by indoctrinated sleeper agents.

If they could detect with 100% certainty, that wouldnt ever happen.

Also, theres the fact that Kai Leng had to have been in the temple the entire time. Who do you think slit the throats of the scientists before Shep and Co arrived?

For part 2:

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

About the VI-- this has been stated already, but it's pretty significant. When you ask the VI what the Crucible is, it will clearly state, "Security overridden, I will comply."

I like the idea of the Reaper IFF. It's not forgotten, as EDI clearly mentions it, and there's got to be something aboard the vessel that has Vega whining about a hum.

[Slaiyer]

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

Modifié par Slaiyer, 30 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[byne]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

byne wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

How about we talk about indoctrination

Ok fine.

I brought this up a long time ago, but I dont think many people responded to it:

Could it be possible that the Reaper IFF we took from the Derelict Reaper is what has been slowly indoctrinating us?

I mean, you only have it for a short time in ME2, and then pretty quickly after getting it you hand the Normandy over to the Alliance, then when you get the Normandy back, and spend more time aboard it, you start having those dreams.

Well. Possibly. We know a dead reaper is still capable of indoctrinating folks. Even the the derelect reaper turned the researchers into husks. Also I think the leviathin of dis was the same as well.

Yeah, Balak mentions the Leviathan of Dis indoctrinated all the highest levels of the Batarian Hegemony

[Kill-Joy]

monrapias wrote...

benben84 wrote...

Another thing I've been curious about is why did the Alliance make the Normandy so dark inside with metal tubes running all over the floors and all red glowing stuff. Seems unnecessary to change what color the electronics are...

I think it's just the alliance way, the ship in me1 is quite dark too.

My guess? The bright ship was using way too much energy. They dimmed the light to reduce the load on the ship.

...

Which brings me to a thought I was discussing with my ME co-pilot girlfriend - why do we go through the process of installing the uh... improved tubes to the Eezo core, if there are no scenes where the Normandy is threatened? In ME2, there was a distinct benefit to upgrading the ship. In this one, you are explicitly requested to do so (Traynor will tell you about it), they spend quite some time talking about the possibility of the engine flooding the engineering level... but nothing of the kind ever happens?

[Carnage752]

@byne
I'll give you a point on the Prothean thing, though it may have something to do with detection range.

But what about the other squadmates and personnell on the Normandy? They don't mention the hum. Only Vega. Even if you could target certain people when indoctrinating, how come they target Vega.

Also EDI has the Reaper tech in her. She is clearly not hacked, and that can haplen as seen by the Geth.

[byne]

Slaiyer wrote...

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

Well, when you take the Reaper code fragment out of the Geth Consensus and give it to that Asari on the Citadel, Shep makes them promise to be careful with it, so I'd assume even just Reaper code could possibly indoctrinate

[Abdul_777]

Abdul_777 wrote...

Wasn't Eva made from Reaper tech? Is it really a stretch to think TIM would've anticipated that Shepard is gonna get in touch with her body one way or another and then EDI was gonna take it over? It's been stated in the vid iirc that Eva was designed to counter EDI (not sure). We never got the answer to what this meant and the dreams started happening after the body was brought aboard the Normandy,after Mars.

EDI actually mentioned that the body had some backup system that was protecting it,what if it actually worked? EDI is a "machine",if her program was rewritten,she wouldnt "know" it.

@byne Yea I asked this 50 pages ago or so

[DarthSliver]

Carnage752 wrote...

Hello!

I just read the whole thing, and I laud you for your clues you have collected. But I'm deeply disturbed by the implications of your theory.

First and foremost, that would make the ending choices even more funneled than they already are. Lose, lose, win. That's it. And while yes I don't expect the fight to be easy, the fact no consequences are shown at all does nothing to help clarify any real difference of my choices.

Lastly, IT implies that Bioware made an incomplete ending. While the IT theory is genius if true, it is out of character with the series and should only serve as a side dish to what we truely want from the series: Choices and consequences. The IT implies that A: Bioware disregarded the style of the series just to put this conspiracy in. Or B: Bioware made an incomplete ending to either sell ending DLC to us or because the deadline prevented the endings from being finished.

I also want to point out two things:
The Prothean VI does not regard Shepard as indoctrinated.

If the indoctrination occurred on the Normandy, how come Vega is the only one to mention hums? How would an indoctrination device get on board in the first place?

Yup thats the bad thing about IT it implies that Bioware is selling us the ending, which would be worst than the ending DA2 was with no choice if you ask me. It also implies that this was planned out but IT is also the only way Bioware can come out looking awesome too, its the easy way out.

[Dwailing]

Carnage752 wrote...

Hello!

I just read the whole thing, and I laud you for your clues you have collected. But I'm deeply disturbed by the implications of your theory.

First and foremost, that would make the ending choices even more funneled than they already are. Lose, lose, win. That's it. And while yes I don't expect the fight to be easy, the fact no consequences are shown at all does nothing to help clarify any real difference of my choices.

Lastly, IT implies that Bioware made an incomplete ending. While the IT theory is genius if true, it is out of character with the series and should only serve as a side dish to what we truely want from the series: Choices and consequences. The IT implies that A: Bioware disregarded the style of the series just to put this conspiracy in. Or B: Bioware made an incomplete ending to either sell ending DLC to us or because the deadline prevented the endings from being finished.

I also want to point out two things:
The Prothean VI does not regard Shepard as indoctrinated.

If the indoctrination occurred on the Normandy, how come Vega is the only one to mention hums? How would an indoctrination device get on board in the first place?

Well, just because only one ending results in Shepard beating indoctrination doesn't mean the other two are wrong.  It's just like in ME2 with the Suicide Mission.  You can do it while unprepared, but it means you'll lose people.  If you chose the endings other than Destroy, it means that Shepard will have to sacrifice himself instead of surviving, and you will probably lose squadmates.  I see this as another choice, not an ending.  It could be like creating peace between the Quarians and Geth.  You have to have exactly the right combination of choices, but it offers the best resolution.  If Shepard doesn't, then he has to choose one or the other.  Same with the endings.  If Shepard has a high enough EMS and chooses Destroy, he resists indoctrination, giving you the ability to gain the best outcome.  However, if you are not ready enough, even if Shepard chooses Destroy, Shepard STILL doesn't beat Indoc because he doesn't have the fleet strength to keep his body safe while he fights Indoc.  Any takers for the others?  

[Slaiyer]

byne wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

Well, when you take the Reaper code fragment out of the Geth Consensus and give it to that Asari on the Citadel, Shep makes them promise to be careful with it, so I'd assume even just Reaper code could possibly indoctrinate

Or perhaps he's telling them not to miss use / lose it. Similar to how if you held the code for Earth's self destruct and you gave it to someone, you might feel inclined to say, "Be. Carefull. Wtih these codes."

[Spiderman_2028]

http://social.biowar...3/1043#10811684

This got buried a little.... Thoughts?

[n00bsauce2010]

Slaiyer wrote...

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

hmm... I think the IFF is more than just a code. It's a device that the Omega 4 relay recognizes as "reaper or reaper ally (collectors)" The fact that it takes edi and cerberus a very long time to decode it suggests it's more than just a tiny little device. I think it's pretty safe to say it can have an indoctrination effect.

[Kyzee]

Carnage752 wrote...

Lastly, IT implies that Bioware made an incomplete ending. While the IT theory is genius if true, it is out of character with the series and should only serve as a side dish to what we truely want from the series: Choices and consequences. The IT implies that A: Bioware disregarded the style of the series just to put this conspiracy in. Or B: Bioware made an incomplete ending to either sell ending DLC to us or because the deadline prevented the endings from being finished.

In regards to (A) Bioware disregarding the style of the series, indoctrination has been in Mass Effect from the beginning and discussed heavily. The last segment of the game is merely a means for the players to experience indoctrination first hand. In regards to ( Bioware making an incomplete game, as I mentioned many, many posts back (wish I could find the darn thing), assuming that IT is true, then the game had to end the way it did in order for indoctrination to have the impact it did on the players. If the game continues after the indoctrination, then the scene wouldn't have anywhere near the power that it has; it'd just be a "Psyche!" moment, nothing more.

Also in regards to (, Bioware has thrown a ton of money into this game and even delayed its release several months. That really doesn't lend credit to the theory of them running out of time or budget.

[n00bsauce2010]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

http://social.biowar...3/1043#10811684

This got buried a little.... Thoughts?

Interesting indeed. I got a chance to look at that earlier. It's safe to say Bioware knows how we play the game and to what extent we play it. We'll just have to wait and see when they announce the dlc plans.

[Slaiyer]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

hmm... I think the IFF is more than just a code. It's a device that the Omega 4 relay recognizes as "reaper or reaper ally (collectors)" The fact that it takes edi and cerberus a very long time to decode it suggests it's more than just a tiny little device. I think it's pretty safe to say it can have an indoctrination effect.

"more than just a tiny little device".  In modern society you can put a **** tonn of information on a little USB flash drive. I would imagine you could do the same in the future, only with even more data.  To say that they need to decode it just strengthens the fact that it is code, as I'm pretty sure I can't decode a bagel (joke).

[delldo]

Kill-Joy wrote...

Kill-Joy wrote...

Hey guys, how about wild speculation? Really, really wild? This may even be stupid, but I'm bored at work and I've been reading IDT threads for all of this week

This thread here:
http://social.biowar...ndex/10654432/1

talks about the various voices in the dream sequences, and the shadows. There seem to be things like "just shoot him", "don't trust him" and so on and so forth.

The top post here:
http://social.biowar...dex/10654432/12

Gets some really interesting data dumps.

Here is my pet theory - ME3 is Shepard reliving the events. The kid is someone who found Shepard in the rubble. The shadows are the only "real" part as Shepard is struggling to recover from brain trauma, or indocrination, or both. Or maybe Shepard is doing things under Reaper control, and the strange events are reality leaking in.

This theory is HEAVILY inspired by American McGee's Alice in Wonderland

Any thoughts on my very wild speculation?

To add to this, here's a video link:



On my earbuds, with the sound cranked up, I can distinctly hear "Just... give in" at the 0:16 mark.

I hear those things too, but at the 24 second mark is a deep throaty voice saying "husk" in a long drawn out kind of way.  Has anyone tried to play these backwards and sped up or slowed down a little?

[Abdul_777]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

http://social.biowar...3/1043#10811684

This got buried a little.... Thoughts?

Well,I remember they showed some statistics a year after ME2,theyve been watching the way people were playing already.It showed how much % of the playerbase plays femshep,skips cutscenes,takes para/renegade path,romances who etc.I vaguely remember it even showed that a guy replayed the game like 30 or more times
So I don't think it's something new.

[Dwailing]

Slaiyer wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

hmm... I think the IFF is more than just a code. It's a device that the Omega 4 relay recognizes as "reaper or reaper ally (collectors)" The fact that it takes edi and cerberus a very long time to decode it suggests it's more than just a tiny little device. I think it's pretty safe to say it can have an indoctrination effect.

"more than just a tiny little device".  In modern society you can put a **** tonn of information on a little USB flash drive. I would imagine you could do the same in the future, only with even more data.  To say that they need to decode it just strengthens the fact that it is code, as I'm pretty sure I can't decode a bagel (joke).

Well, I should point out that it seems like almost anything Reaper related could lead to indoctrination based on our previous experiences.

[Dwailing]

delldo wrote...

Kill-Joy wrote...

Kill-Joy wrote...

Hey guys, how about wild speculation? Really, really wild? This may even be stupid, but I'm bored at work and I've been reading IDT threads for all of this week

This thread here:
http://social.biowar...ndex/10654432/1

talks about the various voices in the dream sequences, and the shadows. There seem to be things like "just shoot him", "don't trust him" and so on and so forth.

The top post here:
http://social.biowar...dex/10654432/12

Gets some really interesting data dumps.

Here is my pet theory - ME3 is Shepard reliving the events. The kid is someone who found Shepard in the rubble. The shadows are the only "real" part as Shepard is struggling to recover from brain trauma, or indocrination, or both. Or maybe Shepard is doing things under Reaper control, and the strange events are reality leaking in.

This theory is HEAVILY inspired by American McGee's Alice in Wonderland

Any thoughts on my very wild speculation?

To add to this, here's a video link:



On my earbuds, with the sound cranked up, I can distinctly hear "Just... give in" at the 0:16 mark.

I hear those things too, but at the 24 second mark is a deep throaty voice saying "husk" in a long drawn out kind of way.  Has anyone tried to play these backwards and sped up or slowed down a little?

Why does this remind me of how people examine Revolution Number 9 and find all sorts of "secret messages" inside?  I'm not saying that there aren't any clues in the whispers, I'm just saying that it seems like just a bit of a stretch.