57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Slaiyer]

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Well, I should point out that it seems like almost anything Reaper related could lead to indoctrination based on our previous experiences.

I just had a theory - would that include reaper faction enemies? Like husks and the such. I mean, we've spent 3 games killing them, and they're basically just reaper tech + meat. Could these enemies, to some extent, posses the ability to indoctrinate?

[Slaiyer]

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Why does this remind me of how people examine Revolution Number 9 and find all sorts of "secret messages" inside?  I'm not saying that there aren't any clues in the whispers, I'm just saying that it seems like just a bit of a stretch.

I feel that confirmation bias may be a part of it. IDT for the win and all, but all I heard in that vid was whispers. No words.

Edit: spelling

Modifié par Slaiyer, 30 mars 2012 - 10:12 .

[n00bsauce2010]

Kyzee wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Lastly, IT implies that Bioware made an incomplete ending. While the IT theory is genius if true, it is out of character with the series and should only serve as a side dish to what we truely want from the series: Choices and consequences. The IT implies that A: Bioware disregarded the style of the series just to put this conspiracy in. Or B: Bioware made an incomplete ending to either sell ending DLC to us or because the deadline prevented the endings from being finished.

In regards to (A) Bioware disregarding the style of the series, indoctrination has been in Mass Effect from the beginning and discussed heavily. The last segment of the game is merely a means for the players to experience indoctrination first hand. In regards to ( Bioware making an incomplete game, as I mentioned many, many posts back (wish I could find the darn thing), assuming that IT is true, then the game had to end the way it did in order for indoctrination to have the impact it did on the players. If the game continues after the indoctrination, then the scene wouldn't have anywhere near the power that it has; it'd just be a "Psyche!" moment, nothing more.

Also in regards to (, Bioware has thrown a ton of money into this game and even delayed its release several months. That really doesn't lend credit to the theory of them running out of time or budget.

My theory is.. just like with "from ashes dlc" that Bioware could've easily have run out of time. They put all of these hints in here in order to pull a plot twist and have been working on the DLC since the deadline before the game went gold which was in like January if i'm not mistaken? So theres a 2 month gap between when the game has to be finished and when it's released. Meaning they had 2 months to work on this "ending dlc" before the games release or it was already finished before hand.. and they pulled this genius plot twist.

Also.. the plot twist doesn't work unless the "endings" are not really in the game. Like you say it's a twist that few people see coming (if it's true.) If bioware had simply put the endings in and showed us the plot twist, then we might've not noticed all of the minor/circumstantial hints laid out for us to find. All speculation of course.

[Rob Psyence]

Sencho wrote...

I think the crux of all these discussions is the blasted "Shepard lives" cut-scene. If that one scene wasn't included in what Bioware obviously set to be the "best" ending (because in a character driven game like this, an ending with your character alive is to be considered better than one that he is not) then I think all of these theories fall short. However, since that one little cut-scene exists, I find the Indoctrination Theory very compelling. I sure hope there is some truth in it from Bioware's side of things. However, I have a bad feeling that that hope is misplaced.

I have to disagree considering I'm one of those players that figured it out while making the decision and I picked destroy. In my first playthrough I didnt have enough ems even to see my squad walk out of the ship. While the scene helped validate my suspicions, my deductive reasoning made me think about everything that was happening without that.

[malikstarks2]

benben84 wrote...

Why is everyone so pissed about paying for DLC? People pay $15 a month to play WoW for years on end but $10 for DLC is a joke? I don't get it, someone has to get paid for giving the customer what it wants. If the the DLC ending costs money and you don't want to pay, that just means you are stuck with the ending at face value and to be honest it was a complete ending to the game. I for one think $10 is nothing, if you whine about $10 then you can't afford xbox and you should be out getting a real job in stead of wasting time playing video games.

If they planned this all ahead of time and it's just sitting there waiting for time to pass before releasing and it costs money, that means EA had a hand in the busines model. That is what BW signed up with them for anyways, to market their games tenfold and make a profit on everything.

I agree with this, Bioware sold us a great game, that's what I paid for. It's possible the end game DLC contains so much content it couldn't fit on the disc anyway. I try not  be too combative, but people pay all the time for games that are 8-10 hours long. I just paid $60 for Binary Domain which is only 10 hours in length. Hell I paid for Splinter Cell Conviction, which is arguably only 5-6 hours in length but still a great game. ME3 has roughly a 30hr campaign PLUS multiplayer. It's more than your money's worth considering the market value.

I still say that if IDT is true (which I believe it is) then it is brilliant, yet somewhat poorly executed due to the overwhelming backlash. However, the DLC part of it I have no problem with becuase for me I more than got what I paid for.

Modifié par malikstarks2, 30 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Dwailing]

Slaiyer wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Why does this remind me of how people examine Revolution Number 9 and find all sorts of "secret messages" inside?  I'm not saying that there aren't any clues in the whispers, I'm just saying that it seems like just a bit of a stretch.

I feel that confirmation bias may be a part of it. IDT for the win and all, but all I heard in that vid was whispers. No words.

Edit: spelling

I have heard words in the dreams and there are subtitles for the most audible ones.  The whispers, though... well, maybe I just haven't been listening closely enough.  I'm replaying the game now, so I'll report on anything I hear.

[JosephKerr27]

If this Indoctrination Theory turns out to be true (keep hope alive!), then I can excuse BioWare's method of execution for this narrative. Were we given the true ending on the disc, it would already be on Youtube. There would be no preventing that, and the most excellent mindf*** of a conclusion in gaming history would be ruined for the vast majority of gamers who are either intentionally or inadvertently exposed to it. If that's the case, I laud BioWare for their dedication to masterful works of art rather than profits or appeal of the masses. I sincerely hope this theory pans out, lest my immense respect and admiration of BioWare's writing staff be tarnished by these "endings".

P.S. I have to say that the way the Catalyst influenced my decision away from Destruction was perfect.  I truly wanted to destroy the Reapers, but every action I take in a game has to mirror my personal beliefs, and I simply could not commit synthetic genocide.  Yes, I was going to destroy every single Reaper, but they're threatening life as a whole, so that defensive annihilation can be completely justified.  Yet killing innocent lifeforms (synthetic life IS life!) is an atrocious "final solution" that has no justification other than ignorance.  In the end, my morals did not allow me to make "the hard decision", and that twisting of my own code was so shocking that it made me SMILE when I realized what had happened.  When BioWare releases the new DLC, I hope they allow me to save the galaxy without sacrificing innocent synthetic lives.  Otherwise, it'll feel like an empty victory in which I sacrificed my soul to save a bunch of biomatter.

Given that lamentable situation, I'd have to rename my character Adolf Shepard, "savior" of the galaxy who preserved humanity but deserves to rot in hell for his crimes.  FYI I boldly named mine Tyberius Shepard.

Modifié par JosephKerr27, 30 mars 2012 - 10:38 .

[Shooter__Andy]

Look, as much as I want to believe otherwise, the whispers in the loop are absolutely random. I heard that there are NON-looped but non-subtitled whispers, which spring up when you try to run away in the dream or stand just next to the kid, so I'd like to hear them

[Dwailing]

Slaiyer wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Well, I should point out that it seems like almost anything Reaper related could lead to indoctrination based on our previous experiences.

I just had a theory - would that include reaper faction enemies? Like husks and the such. I mean, we've spent 3 games killing them, and they're basically just reaper tech + meat. Could these enemies, to some extent, posses the ability to indoctrinate?

Maybe.  Didn't someone else comment on this previously?

[n00bsauce2010]

Dwailing wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Well, I should point out that it seems like almost anything Reaper related could lead to indoctrination based on our previous experiences.

I just had a theory - would that include reaper faction enemies? Like husks and the such. I mean, we've spent 3 games killing them, and they're basically just reaper tech + meat. Could these enemies, to some extent, posses the ability to indoctrinate?

Maybe.  Didn't someone else comment on this previously?

But aren't husks rapidly indoctrinated individuals? We already assume that indoctrinated individuals cannot indoctrinate other individuals.

[Blackmind1]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Well, I should point out that it seems like almost anything Reaper related could lead to indoctrination based on our previous experiences.

I just had a theory - would that include reaper faction enemies? Like husks and the such. I mean, we've spent 3 games killing them, and they're basically just reaper tech + meat. Could these enemies, to some extent, posses the ability to indoctrinate?

Maybe.  Didn't someone else comment on this previously?

But aren't husks rapidly indoctrinated individuals? We already assume that indoctrinated individuals cannot indoctrinate other individuals.

I thought that any indoctrinated, no matter what, would give off Reaper signals which interfere with nearby individuals. They act as a kind of beacon.

[llbountyhunter]

I was just watching an Id video, and someone pointed out the similarities in TIMs base and the citadel end room: they both have the same layout of stairs leading up to a circular room with a nice view- also TIM pops up behind Shepard in an almost identical way is in the base.....

[masster blaster]

You know I think the stargazer scene was just to tell fans that what you have just seen for that last 20 minutes was just fake, and that Bioware are making the final chapter for Shepard right now. So that could be why they say hold on to your ME3 games, and were surpised about the fans feed back in the first place. All because non of us really saw the hints of IT theory when we were to deep in the Story plot.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[Slaiyer]

llbountyhunter wrote...

I was just watching an Id video, and someone pointed out the similarities in TIMs base and the citadel end room: they both have the same layout of stairs leading up to a circular room with a nice view- also TIM pops up behind Shepard in an almost identical way is in the base.....

Really? Interesting...

[Mike Aus]

Coincidence. The design is totally different.

[Spiderman_2028]

Saw all the WOW stuff...

Just wanted to say I refuse to play that game. It had no ending when they released it, and then they keep releasing new stuff you have to pay for, and you have to pay a fee to play the game. They are violating my human rights and even though I clearly have a choice to buy/not buy the products they offer as I see fit, the gross injustice means I will disregard any other explanation for the games perceived shortcomings. I mean it's clear after 5-6 years that Blizzard ran out of time which is why they continue to sell an incomplete game... They are just bad, lazy writers. End of story.

:whistle:

Edit: Grammar, smilies

Modifié par Spiderman_2028, 30 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[masster blaster]

One of my friends said that IT theory is completely bull crap because it makes Shepard weak. I said no it just means that it makes him, or her more of a bad*** just to fight the reapers hold of over Shepard, and then break their hold over Shepard just to find their faces quaking in fear that the "God of Death" is back for Revenge.

I can understand why my friend is mad, but I told my friend that just take a look at the Social Bioware Network and find the link Was the ending a hallucination? and read it.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[savagejuicebox]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Saw all the WOW stuff...

Just wanted to say I refuse to play that game. It had no ending when they released it, and then they keep releasing new stuff you have to pay for, and you have to pay a fee to play the game. They are violating my human rights and even though I clearly have a choice to buy/not buy the products they offer as I see fit, the gross injustice means I will disregard any other explanation for the games perceived shortcomings. I mean it's clear after 5-6 years that Blizzard ran out of time which is why they continue to sell an incomplete game... They are just bad, lazy writers. End of story.

:whistle:

Edit: Grammar, smilies

HaHA! My sentiments exactly!

[ryuasiu]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Saw all the WOW stuff...

Just wanted to say I refuse to play that game. It had no ending when they released it, and then they keep releasing new stuff you have to pay for, and you have to pay a fee to play the game. They are violating my human rights and even though I clearly have a choice to buy/not buy the products they offer as I see fit, the gross injustice means I will disregard any other explanation for the games perceived shortcomings. I mean it's clear after 5-6 years that Blizzard ran out of time which is why they continue to sell an incomplete game... They are just bad, lazy writers. End of story.

:whistle:

Edit: Grammar, smilies

You sir just made my crapy day better. thank you.

[Dwailing]

Slaiyer wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

I was just watching an Id video, and someone pointed out the similarities in TIMs base and the citadel end room: they both have the same layout of stairs leading up to a circular room with a nice view- also TIM pops up behind Shepard in an almost identical way is in the base.....

Really? Interesting...

Yeah, come to think of it it does remind me of TIM's room.

[schneeland]

Dwailing wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

byne wrote...

just last page we were speculating it might be the Reaper IFF you got in ME2 thats indoctrinating you.

From what I understand, IFF stands for "Identify Friend Foe".  I was under the impression that the IFF was only a little bit of code that can be transmitted to identify something as either a friend or foe.  Like a password only in cpu code.

Don't see how something like that would emmit an indoctrinating effect.

EDIT: Grammar

hmm... I think the IFF is more than just a code. It's a device that the Omega 4 relay recognizes as "reaper or reaper ally (collectors)" The fact that it takes edi and cerberus a very long time to decode it suggests it's more than just a tiny little device. I think it's pretty safe to say it can have an indoctrination effect.

"more than just a tiny little device".  In modern society you can put a **** tonn of information on a little USB flash drive. I would imagine you could do the same in the future, only with even more data.  To say that they need to decode it just strengthens the fact that it is code, as I'm pretty sure I can't decode a bagel (joke).

Well, I should point out that it seems like almost anything Reaper related could lead to indoctrination based on our previous experiences.

That's true. However, the IFF might be a special case. if I recall correctly, the IFF had to be made interoperable with the Normandy's systems, but seemed to be rather active than passive, i.e. its not only lying around passively, but sends signals and maybe other things.

However, my impression was that indoctrination happend in the game only when a reaper (be it alive and kicking or derelict) was nearby. The only exception I remember is the indoctrination device in the N7 - Abandoned Mine mission (http://masseffect.wi..._Abandoned_Mine).

So the IFF may not be the culprit. While I cannot justify it at the moment, I have a bad feeling about the mass effect core of the Normandy.

[Derp88]

Dwailing wrote...

Slaiyer wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

I was just watching an Id video, and someone pointed out the similarities in TIMs base and the citadel end room: they both have the same layout of stairs leading up to a circular room with a nice view- also TIM pops up behind Shepard in an almost identical way is in the base.....

Really? Interesting...

Yeah, come to think of it it does remind me of TIM's room.

Noticed that on my first playthrough. My thoughts were "Why does this look so much like TIM's headquarters? Bit lazy :P"

[Shooter__Andy]

schneeland wrote...
However, my impression was that indoctrination happend in the game only when a reaper (be it alive and kicking or derelict) was nearby. The only exception I remember is the indoctrination device in the N7 - Abandoned Mine mission (http://masseffect.wi..._Abandoned_Mine).

No, that's not really true. In the Arrival there was an artifact that explicitly was stated to indoctrinate people.

[Derp88]

About the reaper IFF:

Didn't that alert the Collector forces of the Normandy location in ME2? If it could do that, who knows what else it is capable of? Or could have just been pre-code entered by the Collectors to track the Normandy.

[estebanus]

I've got my own little theory for why control/destroy is the only option for low EMS games.

Destroy: This has obviously been stated before. If you destroyed the collector bas with low EMS, you get the destroy option as the only solution. This is because Harbinger knows, that Shepard cannot defeat the reapers, and therefore does not care whether Shepard's indoctrinated or not. However, I also think that, due to destroying the collector base instead of utilizing it, he believes that you will not do whatever it takes to destroy the reapers. So: he doesn't really care and you get to keep your own mind. However, this will not help Shepard, as he/she has not gathered enough allies, and therefore the reapers win, and everyone dies.

Control: in control, my theory states that Harbinger fears Shepard's craftyness. After having seen that Shepard decided to utilize the collector base instead of destroying it, he sees that Shepard will stop at absolutely NOTHING to get the job done, even if it means sacrificing thousands, if not millions of souls to defeat the reapers. this means that Harbinger is still afraid of what MIGHT happen if Shepard is not removed as a threat. So Harbinger decides to indoctrinate him/her, just to be safe. In the end, Shepard turning on his/her own forces demoralizes the groundforces so much, that they are routed. The fleets in orbit are not able to destroy the reapers due to not having enough forces on their side, so they either flee or are destroyed. The galaxy is doomed, everyone dies, and the cycle continues.

That is my theory, make of it what you will.

Any thoughts regarding this?

Modifié par estebanus, 30 mars 2012 - 11:32 .