57139 réponses à ce sujet

[waldstr18]

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

Modifié par waldstr18, 31 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[nightcobra]

waldstr18 wrote...

@gunslinger

if its all indoctrination none of the end videos really happen.
also from what i understand, you have to play through the game twice to get the breath ending. which also makes no sense to me, cause that would mean you have to play through a 30 hour game twice to actually finish it, otherwise you are left with a, well, not so good unfinished ending.

crap. i mean the indoc theory makes no sense in that case, cause then the game wouldnt actually be over after one play through, which it would be, if it was no indoctrination.

actually you don't need to play through it twice, you just have to meet two requirements:

-a high enough EMS

-pick destroy option.


for some people, namely the ps3 fanbase, have to play multiplayer to get an high enough EMS since they don't have enough war assets due to the lack of ME1.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 31 mars 2012 - 06:58 .

[waldstr18]

in that case my argument is invalid. no actually it isnt. if you cant finish the game properly if you havent played the first two, it still makes no sense to me.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Anyone else trying Really hard not to respond/argue to waldstr? Alright here we go, I'm  just gonna get this out of the way and try to stay civil.

waldstr18 wrote...

@juicebox

i said it a few times already. low ems gives you only the right choice? selling an unfinished game. making it way too hard for average players to see through the deception. those are the main things i talked about ... i think.

but everyone of my argument got countered by something, even though i respect the ones who posted them, that i can only file under "full of it". the reasoning comes straight out of your hopeful imagination that the ending cant be real. oh, i even wrote a summarized version of hans christian andersons "the emperors new clothes" just for you guys to see the error of your ways.

wanna know what the answer was? "i have also a story for you: you are wrong. not that interesting but their it is" (paraphrased of course)

oh, and one guy said he rather believe in the new clothes until its proofen wrong than believing the ending was meant this way.

and now to get a little angry: dont you call me a non poing arguer, friend.

The Low EMS "destroy" ending is not the same as the High EMS "destroy" ending, with low EMS the red ending sends a wave of devastation across Earth destroying buildings and disintegrating soldiers and deactivating Reapers. Since that's happening on Earth we can only assume the rest of the galaxy gets hit much the same way since the wave is sent through the Mass Relays. The Normandy still blows up and crashe lands on the jungle planet, but we see no one step out, the airlock door pushes out but doesn't swing open then credits roll, we're left to assume at least 1 crew member survived to open that door and that's that.

High EMS "destroy" ending; the red wave sent out deactivates/kills Reapers but leaves buildings and soldiers intact on the ground, they can be seen celebrating for a few seconds. The Normandy still gets hit by the wave, and apparently crash lands on the jungle planet, Joker and your Love Interest step out + 1 squadmate (or me it's always Javik stepping out). Shepard's infamous "Breath" scene plays, credits roll.

The Low EMS "destroy" ending, or default ending if you want to use that term, can be seen as Shepard losing his/her fight with indoctrination, or just losing in general; the war ends in destruction of not only the Reapers but a majority of organics. While the High EMS "destroy" ending can be viewed more as a victory ending; the Reapers are dead, organics survive, the Normandy crew survives, Shepard either somehow survives the explosion (next to impossible) or wakes up from either hallucinating or indoctrination induced hallucination and takes a gasp of air.

Please keep in mind this is still a Theory until someone from Bioware throws us something, all we can do is speculate and A Lot of what we do here in this thread is speculating. Sometimes it's grasping/reaching, sometimes it's convincing, but the one piece of solid evidence we have that something is amiss, whether it's Indoctrination or something else, is that Shepard "survives" with the High EMS "destroy" ending and ONLY that ending option. While, yes, with the Control and Synthesis endings Shepard is disintegrated/absorbed into the Citadel or Curcible energy and therefore has nothing left to survive with. But at the same time how is there enough of Shepard left to take a breath after being that close to the "destroy" ending's explosion? And after the destruction of the Citadel? After the re-entry into Earths atmosphere?

We Theorize, we speculate, we debate because there are things to theorize speculate and debate about when it comes to the endings but Please, everyone, try to keep things civil and from outright arguing beyond the points. We're all in the same boat together as it is.

Yep, Low EMS  Shepard's mind/body are too weakened by the onslaught of Harbinger that his body fails and he dies under the rubble.High EMS Shepard mind and body don't fail and he/she are able to awaken from the near Death experience/Harbinger IT/Crucible Resolve Test.(At least I'd like to believe.)

[savagejuicebox]

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

It changes a whole hell of alot, the amount of personal interest that most people have put in since ME1 could easily have an impact on the final decision, also how do you know that edi died? it doesnt show her die, shep lives and it doesnt even show the geth die either, therefore there is no reason AT ALL to trust what the Godchild had to say.

Modifié par savagejuicebox, 31 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

waldstr18 wrote...

@rifneno

in dark knight jokers says "im a man of my word". you might have noticed if you seen the movie.

i know what burn means, i just didnt know about the "in good fun" part, cause it honestly doesnt feel that way anymore. but i guess its not my kinda crowd at the moment.

@gunslinger

if its all indoctrination none of the end videos really happen.
also from what i understand, you have to play through the game twice to get the breath ending. which also makes no sense to me, cause that would mean you have to play through a 30 hour game twice to actually finish it, otherwise you are left with a, well, not so good unfinished ending.

crap. i mean the indoc theory makes no sense in that case, cause then the game wouldnt actually be over after one play through, which it would be, if it was no indoctrination.

IF it's all indoctrination then the end videos don't happen in the "real" world but they happen in Shepards mind and that is important. It effects Shepard during whatever happens after that *gasp* scene, and therefore effects us, the  gamers, and the may very well change the rest of the game (if there every is any).

You can get the breath scene 2 ways, either play through again with a New  Game+, OR you can do what a lot of us long time Mass Effect gamers did and import from at Least ME2 into 3. I suppose ME1 is optional since you can just use the ME: Genesis DLC in 2 to set up the ME1 universe, although many have said they enjoy ME1 more than 2 purely for the story. I understand for newcomers and people who don't have ME2 that seems like a lot of game time hours to go through just for that scene, but keep in mind ME2 has been out for a couple years now, plenty of time for the rest of us to beat it at least twice if not more (I'm guilty of beating ME2 at least 8 times across 5 Shepards).

Indoctrination Theory makes Some sense, once you look at all the pieces, or rather it makes Enough sense that many fans are trying to either confirm it or deny it.

On a sidenote, the Mass Effect games have always been made iwth New Game+ in mind, from ME1 to now, and I assume most gamers have beaten at least one of the ME games more than once with a NG+. The NG+ gameplay perks are great (same level, same credits, and now same paragon/renegade/reputation gauge from your previous playthrough.)

Something fun to do, go through the last mission, "Citadel:The Return", the are from when you're blasted by Harbinger to the "end" scenes with the this thought on your mind: "Shepard is being Indoctrinated, this is the fight for his(her) mind."

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

@gunslinger

if its all indoctrination none of the end videos really happen.
also from what i understand, you have to play through the game twice to get the breath ending. which also makes no sense to me, cause that would mean you have to play through a 30 hour game twice to actually finish it, otherwise you are left with a, well, not so good unfinished ending.

crap. i mean the indoc theory makes no sense in that case, cause then the game wouldnt actually be over after one play through, which it would be, if it was no indoctrination.

actually you don't need to play through it twice, you just have to meet two requirements:

-a high enough EMS

-pick destroy option.


for some people, namely the ps3 fanbase, have to play multiplayer to get an high enough EMS since they don't have enough war assets due to the lack of ME1.

This is why they needed to include the comic dlc that would have allowed you to make decisions for ME1/ME2. 

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 31 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[JTP117]

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

If it eases your conscience any, several people have had EDI appear on the Normandy after it crashes. It could be a glitch but there is always hope.

[mrbthq]

So if IT is true, I take it the illusive man chose the blue pill during his indoctrination and Saren chose the green pill.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

waldstr18 wrote...

in that case my argument is invalid. no actually it isnt. if you cant finish the game properly if you havent played the first two, it still makes no sense to me.

You don't Need to play the previous two to get the best ending/story, but after seeing a default history ME3 and playing through with my imported ME1 > ME2 > ME3 Shepard it feels like a different game entirely based on your choices in previous games. If you've got some extra time and money I recommend at least playing through ME2 with the genesis comic DLC (so you dont have to play through ME1 to make the big choices if you really don't want to) then import into 3 to see how different things play out.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 31 mars 2012 - 07:06 .

[nightcobra]

mrbthq wrote...

So if IT is true, I take it the illusive man chose the blue pill during his indoctrination and Saren chose the green pill.

and of course the correct choice is shepard's, shoot the red pill and blow up the others along with it.

[waldstr18]

savagejuicebox wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

It changes a whole hell of alot, the amount of personal interest that most people have put in since ME1 could easily have an impact on the final decision, also how do you know that edi died? it doesnt show her die, shep lives and it doesnt even show the geth die either, therefore there is no reason AT ALL to trust what the Godchild had to say.

what? impat on the final decision? what what what? i thought we were talking about the indoctrination theory, what does that have to do with the personal interest of .. what?

well, let me explain it for you. what you were trying to tell me with your "soooo" comment was that im not a reaaaall mass effect fan, and so im actually not worth talking to. am i right? just a thought.

also. i propably have played mass effect a year later than you, if that makes you feel better.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

in that case my argument is invalid. no actually it isnt. if you cant finish the game properly if you havent played the first two, it still makes no sense to me.

You don't Need to play the previous two to get the best ending, but after seeing a default history ME3 and playing through with my imported ME1 > ME2 > ME3 Shepard it feels like a different game entirely based on your choices in previous games. If you've got some extra time and money I recommend at least playing through ME2 with the genesis comic DLC (so you dont have to play through ME1 to make the big choices if you really don't want to) then import into 3 to see how different things play out.

^This , after playing the default ME3 core game and playing through my imported ME2save/gen.dlc.The game felt much more complete and I believe alot of people will be missing out on some great moments like Thane(sick) vs Kai Leng.

[waldstr18]

@JTP117

thanks for easing my conscience. yet the other synthetics are still dead, arent they? i dont want to kill anyone.

talking about killing; have you seen the video of tali comitting suicide? why didnt he save everyone?! the options were right there!!!

Modifié par waldstr18, 31 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[savagejuicebox]

waldstr18 wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

It changes a whole hell of alot, the amount of personal interest that most people have put in since ME1 could easily have an impact on the final decision, also how do you know that edi died? it doesnt show her die, shep lives and it doesnt even show the geth die either, therefore there is no reason AT ALL to trust what the Godchild had to say.

what? impat on the final decision? what what what? i thought we were talking about the indoctrination theory, what does that have to do with the personal interest of .. what?

well, let me explain it for you. what you were trying to tell me with your "soooo" comment was that im not a reaaaall mass effect fan, and so im actually not worth talking to. am i right? just a thought.

also. i propably have played mass effect a year later than you, if that makes you feel better.

What what what??? You said you couldnt bring yourself to kill edi and i tried to explain why there is no proof she dies.

And if you were to play the first two games your decisions in the 3rd one would be heavily based on your past experiences with the first 2 games, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing the originals, especially the 2nd one. Also im not saying you are less of a fan, im not trying to be condecending like you are, im saying it would be very difficult for you to understand the emotions we (the people that have played since ME1) have for these games if you havent played the first two.

[JTP117]

waldstr18 wrote...

@JTP117

thanks for easing my conscience. yet the other synthetics are still dead, arent they? i dont want to kill anyone.

talking about killing; have you seen the video of tali comitting suicide? why didnt he save everyone?! the options were right there!!!

I have not seen that. But If EDI survives it is assumed that the other synthetics did as well. Though as i said, it could be a glitch, that's why we discuss it here on the IT thread

[waldstr18]

savagejuicebox wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

It changes a whole hell of alot, the amount of personal interest that most people have put in since ME1 could easily have an impact on the final decision, also how do you know that edi died? it doesnt show her die, shep lives and it doesnt even show the geth die either, therefore there is no reason AT ALL to trust what the Godchild had to say.

what? impat on the final decision? what what what? i thought we were talking about the indoctrination theory, what does that have to do with the personal interest of .. what?

well, let me explain it for you. what you were trying to tell me with your "soooo" comment was that im not a reaaaall mass effect fan, and so im actually not worth talking to. am i right? just a thought.

also. i propably have played mass effect a year later than you, if that makes you feel better.

What what what??? You said you couldnt bring yourself to kill edi and i tried to explain why there is no proof she dies.

And if you were to play the first two games your decisions in the 3rd one would be heavily based on your past experiences with the first 2 games, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing the originals, especially the 2nd one. Also im not saying you are less of a fan, im not trying to be condecending like you are, im saying it would be very difficult for you to understand the emotions we (the people that have played since ME1) have for these games if you havent played the first two.

sorry... look at the order in which the things are written. you wrote the "sooo" part, then i wrote the "i wont kill edi" stuff. i really think my explanation why you wrote that, was the right one. which means, if i am troll, then you must be one of these fanboys ive heard yahtzee talking about (zero punctuation).

i guess you havent read everything i posted yet, but i happily say it again. ive played all of them. the first one just a year later than you. why that is, well, i let you figure it out.

also, in the second game no one died on me, even though i didnt know my team mates could die.

Modifié par waldstr18, 31 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[savagejuicebox]

waldstr18 wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

It changes a whole hell of alot, the amount of personal interest that most people have put in since ME1 could easily have an impact on the final decision, also how do you know that edi died? it doesnt show her die, shep lives and it doesnt even show the geth die either, therefore there is no reason AT ALL to trust what the Godchild had to say.

what? impat on the final decision? what what what? i thought we were talking about the indoctrination theory, what does that have to do with the personal interest of .. what?

well, let me explain it for you. what you were trying to tell me with your "soooo" comment was that im not a reaaaall mass effect fan, and so im actually not worth talking to. am i right? just a thought.

also. i propably have played mass effect a year later than you, if that makes you feel better.

What what what??? You said you couldnt bring yourself to kill edi and i tried to explain why there is no proof she dies.

And if you were to play the first two games your decisions in the 3rd one would be heavily based on your past experiences with the first 2 games, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing the originals, especially the 2nd one. Also im not saying you are less of a fan, im not trying to be condecending like you are, im saying it would be very difficult for you to understand the emotions we (the people that have played since ME1) have for these games if you havent played the first two.

sorry... look at the order in which the things are written. you wrote the "sooo" part, then i wrote the "i wont kill edi" stuff. i really think my explanation why you wrote that, was the right one. which means, if i am troll, then you must be one of these fanboys ive heard yahtzee talking about (zero punctuation).

i guess you havent read everything i posted yet, but i happily say it again. ive played all of them. the first one just a year later than you. why that is, well, i let you figure it out.

also, in the second game no one died on me, even though i didnt know my team mates could die.

Well then you can ignore my replies, sorry for the miscommunication.

Also, i dont know if it is because you arent a native speak or something else, but when you talk to people on this thread you sound like you are talking down to them and that is rude and i dont think anyone here apreciates it at all. Im sorry if us calling you a troll makes you upset but you really do sound like one, thus we call you one. Maybe watch how you say things and it wont sound so demeaning.

Everyone have a good night! We are one day closer to to PAX   :D:D

[GrimIntent89]

[quote]waldstr18 wrote...

[quote]savagejuicebox wrote...

[quote]waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?
[/quote]

It changes a whole hell of alot, the amount of personal interest that most people have put in since ME1 could easily have an impact on the final decision, also how do you know that edi died? it doesnt show her die, shep lives and it doesnt even show the geth die either, therefore there is no reason AT ALL to trust what the Godchild had to say.

[/quote]

i'm gunna step in here and clarify... what they mean is that it's safe to assume that people that have been playing mass effect from the beginning would have a lot more context in regards to indoctrination and how it works considering it has been a main theme since ME1. therefore, what you consider "grasping at straws", or illogical or however you've arrived at the conclusion that we're full off it wouldn't seem that way if you had as much context as most of the people in this thread. the ending being indoctrination actually makes ALOT of sense if you were truly paying attention throughout the series. 2 of the 3 ending ARE "wrong" according to the established canon thus far. saren is the antagonist of me1, a game that it seems you haven't played but i digress... saren believed that we could appease the reapers if we would just let them assimilate and meld us with synthetic life. clearly, that's a pretty radical and morally ambiguous idea. genetic diversity is the beauty of life, and forcing everyone to synthesize into one race is absurd. ESPECIALLY without their consent. that's playing god and is established as "wrong", according the majority of the games. the synthesis ending is just that. reapers are a mixture of synthetic AND organic life, as it is established in the end of ME2 so essentially you're forcing everyone, without consent, to become reapers themselves. this would mean that the reapers have succeeded to fool you/indoctrinate you. TIM is another established antagonist that is obsessed with dominating/controlling the reapers as is established towards the end of ME3. this is perceived, according to canon, as wrong for multiple reasons. one reason being that the sacrifices made by TIM to realize his goal were too great and that the end doesn't justify the means. it can also be considered power hungry and is implied several times in the end of ME2 and most of ME3 that TIM has become just that, mixed with a little bit of flat out insanity. so, the control ending would also mean that, according to IT you have been deceived/indoctrinated. the destroy ending is the only ending that doesn't contradict the entire point of the series, which has been to destroy the reapers and end their threat to the galaxy. it also symbolizes that shepard has the resolve to fight and do what is right which is destroying the reapers. there is no logical explanation that would make me think that the reapers were doing the right thing. everything they do is evil and completely heinous and they need to be destroyed. this is the only ending that is contradictory to their goals and that doesn't allow them to survive. this is why the destroy ending, according to IT is perceived as breaking free from indoctrination. another curious thing to note is that anderson has ALWAYS been perceived as paragon, and TIM renegade and yet it symbolizes anderson as renegade in the destroy ending and TIM as the paragon in the control ending. in other words, it would make alot of sense that this is an obvious attempt at deception by harby/starchild. 

Modifié par GrimIntent89, 31 mars 2012 - 07:42 .

[waldstr18]

sleep well my friend.

also im not angry with you for calling me a troll. im going to apply at the troll school soon, since i find those trolls are a fun bunch.

and about the talking down: examples? if i dont know what you are talking about, how can i possibly change that?

[Spiderman_2028]

Just to clarify, there are actually 3 versions of the Destroy ending that I have seen.

1. Red Wave spreads out to hit reapers and earths surface- it scorches the earth. Cut to the surface- soldiers vs Reapers. Wave hits reapers, they fall down. It destroys buildings (Big Ben). Wave hits soldiers behind cover, they get atomized/torched. Wave trashes Mass relays. Joker plays chicken with the wave, loses, cut to Tarzan-World, Airlock of the Normandy opens, no-one emerges. Credits. Stargazer scene.

2. Red wave spreads out to hit reapers and earth, earth is NOT scorched. Cut to the surface- soldiers vs Reapers. Wave hits reapers, reapers fall down. Wave trashes buildings (Big Ben). Wave hits soldiers behind cover, soldiers survive (but buildings etc are toast). Wave trashes Mass relays. Joker plays chicken with the wave, loses, cut to Tarzan-World, Airlock of the Normandy opens, Joker and two Squaddies emerge. Credits. Stargazer scene.

3. Red wave spreads out to hit reapers and earth, earth is NOT scorched. Cut to the surface- soldiers vs Reapers. Wave hits reapers, reapers fall down. Wave passes by buildings (Big Ben) but leaves them unscathed (besides existing war related damage). Wave hits soldiers behind cover, soldiers survive and celebrate, arms raised etc. Wave trashes Mass relays. Joker plays chicken with the wave, loses, cut to Tarzan-World, Airlock of the Normandy opens, Joker and two Squaddies emerge. Shep is shown taking a breath in rubble (or at least, an armoured, N7 dog-tag wearing body) Credits. Stargazer scene.

If the ending was rushed, making these three endings with subtle, deliberate differences emanating out of the same 'decision' is suspect, which is why it gets discussed at length. Typically those with low EMS see the earth and soldiers roasted, or the buildings trashed. High EMS and taking out the collector base in ME2 generally leads to destroy ending number 3, where Shep appears to live.

Modifié par Spiderman_2028, 31 mars 2012 - 07:49 .

[monrapias]

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

I have no trouble killing something that was never alive.

It's just a really smart computer.

[waldstr18]

@monrapias

you, sir, are a monster!

im gonna watch saturday morning cartoons now, where no one gets killed - no people, no animals, no transformers, no horrible space mutants. everyone is ah ah ah ah staying aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive.

Modifié par waldstr18, 31 mars 2012 - 07:53 .

[monrapias]

waldstr18 wrote...

@monrapias

you, sir, are a monster!

im gonna watch saturday morning cartoons now, where no one gets killed - no people, no animals, no transformers, no horrible space mutants. everyone is ah ah ah ah staying aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive.

So if someone throws a cell phone in the trash, they are monsters?

[Sheldon237]

 

monrapias wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

no, i cant bring my self to kill edi.


also, why "sooooo", would it change anything if i had only played the third installment?

I have no trouble killing something that was never alive.

It's just a really smart computer.

 
There is a big difference between organic life and intelligent life. EDI was never organic life but she is definitely intelligent life. 

waldstr18 wrote...

@monrapias

you, sir, are a monster!

im gonna watch saturday morning cartoons now, where no one gets killed - no people, no animals, no transformers, no horrible space mutants. everyone is ah ah ah ah staying aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive.

Why wouldnt you watch transformers(also intelligent life)?

Also: Bee Gees. Nice.