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[schneeland]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, as much as I absolutely LOVE this line of thought, remember that if you didn't import a game from ME2 that Shepard didn't complete Arrival.  Although honestly, are ANY of us Indoc Theory supporters people who DIDN'T import from ME2?

Are you sure about that? I didn't really try, but I assumed they were making the Arrival events canon.

[schneeland]

Just to add: In part 3 of the Arrival Walkthrough (), at 10:48, we have Kenson saying that she "can't hear the whispers anymore". Not really news, but the whispering thing seems to be quite important in indoctrination.

[Kanon777]

Chyliss wrote...

Question: A couple of minutes after you enter the beam and "arrive" on the Citadel, you get +15 reputation and +2 Paragon for no apparent reason... There is no dialogue or event that seems to obviously trigger that, so where is it coming from? Any ideas? Was this brought up already and I just missed it?

Also, it's pretty suspicious that Shep has his scars back and looks like he did at the beginning of ME2 from the moment he comes to on the ground before approaching the beam. That can't be a coincidence.

i think its supose to help you with the final dialogue with TIM, incase you didnt have enough reputation

[Vahilor]

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, as much as I absolutely LOVE this line of thought, remember that if you didn't import a game from ME2 that Shepard didn't complete Arrival.  Although honestly, are ANY of us Indoc Theory supporters people who DIDN'T import from ME2?

Are you sure about that? I didn't really try, but I assumed they were making the Arrival events canon.

They made it canon, that's cause you are arrested in the begining of ME3

[Dwailing]

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, as much as I absolutely LOVE this line of thought, remember that if you didn't import a game from ME2 that Shepard didn't complete Arrival.  Although honestly, are ANY of us Indoc Theory supporters people who DIDN'T import from ME2?

Are you sure about that? I didn't really try, but I assumed they were making the Arrival events canon.

Arrival did happen, but Shepard wasn't the one who launched the asteroid into the relay.  Hackett sent the 103rd Marine Division, or whatever they're called, to rescue Kenson instead and THEY were the ones who launched the asteroid.  I learned this by checking this page: 
http://masseffect.wi...Assets/Alliance 
It shows that the 103rd asset loses strength because they were the ones who were sent to deal with that situation in you didn't import.

[Martukis]

Martukis wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

schneeland wrote...

13:10 is already quite good, yet if you skip to 16:50 you will explicitly hear: "I know, I am not the only one having those dreams". Seems even more fitting (in particular since - as you said - this DLC prepared the events of Mass Effect 3)

Just checked it out, and that's amazing. It even sounds like Kenson went through a stage of self-doubt before becoming indoctrinated.. Like Shepard.

 Indeed, I seem to recall one log says "I feel like we're doing something terrible." My question is, how far along was she in the indoctrination process? Originally, I thought she was having the start of indoctrination - that she thought destroying the relay was terrible. But I am starting to wonder if this wasn't a moment of lucidity out of the hypnotic effect of indoctrination. After all, Kenson brought Sheperd there, and even if she didn't, he could have had the scientists blast the asteroid away from the relay. The thing is, we have no idea what the Rho artifact does/did, or if it would be destroyed by the explosion.
 My reasons for this line of thought are partially influenced by the scene with the color burt traversing the relays - starting in the Viper Nebula, where the Alpha Relay was. I'm starting to wonder if Object Rho didn't trigger some sort of chain reaction when it was smashed into the alpha relay - the whole setup to stop Sheperd along with his mysterious ability to fight off the drugs they were giving him, and Harbringer's final speech there leave me suspicious of it all.

 Also, to those who didn't play arrival, as far as I know, the game assumes either Shep or a group of alliance marines completed the mission. While this might weaken the argument that Shep was indoc'd then, I think it may have set bigger things in motion. For evidence, check http://mod.gib.me/ma...3/testdump2.txt and ctrl+F for "Alpha Relay".

Modifié par Martukis, 31 mars 2012 - 03:22 .

[Kyzee]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

mrs.N7 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just rewatched the Tuchanka dream scene with music off and I swear, after standing close to the child for a while I heard Harbinger say "you can't go on". o.O

at ca. 7:45 and a lot clearer again at 8:00!

I've listened at the same video and I think I heard something like: "resist it" in a "normal wisper and "I'm the Harbringer of your..(destruction, perfection??)" in a Reaper style repeated al lot when the shadows encircle the boy at ca. 8.00-9.05. scary...

EDIT: I heard "you can't (something)" too...

I am hearing what sounds like I'm the harbinger of your destruction also

I've never been able to hear anything during these, until the 6:00 mark, when I clearly heard, "Stop dreaming." Freaked me out! 

As for Harbinger, it certainly sounds like his voice is there. I just can't make out the words (surprise).

[Hacedor1566]

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, as much as I absolutely LOVE this line of thought, remember that if you didn't import a game from ME2 that Shepard didn't complete Arrival.  Although honestly, are ANY of us Indoc Theory supporters people who DIDN'T import from ME2?

Are you sure about that? I didn't really try, but I assumed they were making the Arrival events canon.

Arrival did happen, but Shepard wasn't the one who launched the asteroid into the relay.  Hackett sent the 103rd Marine Division, or whatever they're called, to rescue Kenson instead and THEY were the ones who launched the asteroid.  I learned this by checking this page: 
http://masseffect.wi...Assets/Alliance 
It shows that the 103rd asset loses strength because they were the ones who were sent to deal with that situation in you didn't import.

Nope, I'm sorry, but, I played Arrival, and i can see this too in my imported game on ME3 (and I'm 100% sure, i only have 1 game and 1 Commander Shepard soldier class, i made it everything good at the first play in ME and ME2B), and never replayed) . The indoctrinated soldiers you fight against on Arrival are Alliance soliders... Maybe they are that 103rd Marine Division man and woman? 

[Hacedor1566]

Maybe it's a bug...

[Dwailing]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, as much as I absolutely LOVE this line of thought, remember that if you didn't import a game from ME2 that Shepard didn't complete Arrival.  Although honestly, are ANY of us Indoc Theory supporters people who DIDN'T import from ME2?

Are you sure about that? I didn't really try, but I assumed they were making the Arrival events canon.

Arrival did happen, but Shepard wasn't the one who launched the asteroid into the relay.  Hackett sent the 103rd Marine Division, or whatever they're called, to rescue Kenson instead and THEY were the ones who launched the asteroid.  I learned this by checking this page: 
http://masseffect.wi...Assets/Alliance 
It shows that the 103rd asset loses strength because they were the ones who were sent to deal with that situation in you didn't import.

Nope, I'm sorry, but, I played Arrival, and i can see this too in my imported game on ME3 (and I'm 100% sure, i only have 1 game and 1 Commander Shepard soldier class, i made it everything good at the first play in ME and ME2B), and never replayed) . The indoctrinated soldiers you fight against on Arrival are Alliance soliders... Maybe they are that 103rd Marine Division man and woman? 

Weird, because I ALSO have an import where I completed Arrival and I DON'T see that.  Given that the wiki says the loss in strength only occurs if you didn't play Arrival, I think your save must be bugged.

[Martukis]

Well, according to a certain Batarian's dialogue in the game, there is a conditional that decides whether he recognizes Shep, and comments that everyone who lost people on Atroaht know him for his atrocities, or that the Batarian claims Shep is just like all the other alliance members, like those marines that wiped out Atroaht. So it would seem that if you played it, Shep destroyed the Alpha relay, if you didn't, some marines did.

[Angmir]

schneeland wrote...

SharpVec wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just rewatched the Tuchanka dream scene with music off and I swear, after standing close to the child for a while I heard Harbinger say "you can't go on". o.O

at ca. 7:45 and a lot clearer again at 8:00!

Does nobody else hear this? Go to 7:58 and listen closely...

I'm really trying to hear it, but I can't.

Sorry.

Me neither. Guess, my ears are just too ruined after all these years.

I can say with 100% accuracy that there is the line "I am a harbinger fo your perfection" looping near the boy there. Only that is it slowed down and deformed, plus it is played in several layers simultainously,

Like

I am a Harbinger of your perfection ............I am a Harbinger of your perfection ................
.......... I am a Harbinger of your Perfection ............. I am a Harbinger of your perfection....
ction .............. I am a Harbinger of your Perfection ............ I am a Harbinger of your perfe
your perfection ............... I am a Harbinger of your perfection ............. I am a Harbinger of

Modifié par Angmir, 31 mars 2012 - 03:39 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I just thought of something..

there is that part in the Sur'Kesh mission where it is implied that someone tipped Cerberus off about the females..

and I think someone mentioned a scene (though I don't remember it personally) in the Normandy where you can see some unknown person sneaking in the background or something like that...

and of course there is that creepy line from James Vega about "a hum".

Consider these points and the one that you can sometimes hear TIM in the dream scenes...

Maybe a Cerberus spy brought one of those Reaper-brainwash-devices on the Normandy and hid it somewhere? And it has been subtly influencing you all the time?

[jdgjordan]

posted in the rong thread sorry

Modifié par jdgjordan, 31 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[Jadebaby]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, as much as I absolutely LOVE this line of thought, remember that if you didn't import a game from ME2 that Shepard didn't complete Arrival.  Although honestly, are ANY of us Indoc Theory supporters people who DIDN'T import from ME2?

I suppose not lol.

But if they did this with arrival and set the course for ME3 then whats to say they wouldn't do it again at the end of ME3 with dlc that shows you what really happened.

lol maybe... and I say this with little thought... Maybe, Shepard was indoctrinated right after waking up from activating Object Rho and knew the Reapers would come somehow anyway so they manipulated you into destroying an entire system for nothing.

[Jadebaby]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just thought of something..

there is that part in the Sur'Kesh mission where it is implied that someone tipped Cerberus off about the females..

and I think someone mentioned a scene (though I don't remember it personally) in the Normandy where you can see some unknown person sneaking in the background or something like that...

and of course there is that creepy line from James Vega about "a hum".

Consider these points and the one that you can sometimes hear TIM in the dream scenes...

Maybe a Cerberus spy brought one of those Reaper-brainwash-devices on the Normandy and hid it somewhere? And it has been subtly influencing you all the time?

I just had to turn a light on because of you... it's late here.

[schneeland]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just thought of something..

there is that part in the Sur'Kesh mission where it is implied that someone tipped Cerberus off about the females..

and I think someone mentioned a scene (though I don't remember it personally) in the Normandy where you can see some unknown person sneaking in the background or something like that...

and of course there is that creepy line from James Vega about "a hum".

Consider these points and the one that you can sometimes hear TIM in the dream scenes...

Maybe a Cerberus spy brought one of those Reaper-brainwash-devices on the Normandy and hid it somewhere? And it has been subtly influencing you all the time?

I just had to turn a light on because of you... it's late here.

Well, that's possible, but I wonder where it would be hidden. As stated a dozen pages ago, the indoctrination devices we saw (http://masseffect.wi..._Abandoned_Mine and in Arrival) were rather large. The only thing I can say is that the image has some resemblance with the Mass Effect core of the Normandy.

[Rifneno]

schneeland wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

More indoc evidence

About the dream sequences.

First of all, It's worth noting that when you wake up each time you do the facepalm as if you have a headache.......

In the 2nd dream sequence after you 'wake up' it is unclear whether you were actually sleeping or just hallucinating as you have a datapad in your hand and seem to be standing from what I saw.... This could be backed up by this datalog from ME2 the Arrival.

EDIT: If it starts at the start, skip to 13:10..

13:10 is already quite good, yet if you skip to 16:50 you will explicitly hear: "I know, I am not the only one having those dreams". Seems even more fitting (in particular since - as you said - this DLC prepared the events of Mass Effect 3)

She also complained toward the end that now she'd never live to see the Reapers' promises fulfilled.  She was promised something?  ...  Like Harbingerkid promises Shepard all that good stuff if he grabs the electric bars or jumps into the beam?

[Dwailing]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just thought of something..

there is that part in the Sur'Kesh mission where it is implied that someone tipped Cerberus off about the females..

and I think someone mentioned a scene (though I don't remember it personally) in the Normandy where you can see some unknown person sneaking in the background or something like that...

and of course there is that creepy line from James Vega about "a hum".

Consider these points and the one that you can sometimes hear TIM in the dream scenes...

Maybe a Cerberus spy brought one of those Reaper-brainwash-devices on the Normandy and hid it somewhere? And it has been subtly influencing you all the time?

I just had to turn a light on because of you... it's late here.

Wow, this could cover the lack of Arrival for non-imports.  Also, perhaps, if this is true, it could mean that Shepard will have a harder time fighting Indoc if he completed Arrival.  Talk about Continuity Porn. 
http://tvtropes.org/.../ContinuityPorn  

Also, on an unrelated note, I'm watching NCIS in the background and there is a kid in this who is giving me strange flashbacks to Star-Brat.  Although, I think almost any kid will give me flashbacks to Star-Brat now. 

[squee365]

Just a quick thought...

How can Shepard NOT be indoctrinated?

-Direct contact with Sovereign and reaper tech on Virmire
-Contact again on the citadel
-Synthetic implants for project Lazarus
-Was aboard a reaper for an extended period of time and had direct contact with its IFF
-Was aboard a collector ship using a lot of reaper tech
-Being knocked out by Object Rho (this is the biggest culprit)
-Surrounded by reaper tech throughout the third chapter
-Being hit by harbinger's beam

If he's not indoctrinated, what makes shepard so special in that he CAN'T be indoctrinated? I've always wondered this, even after beating ME2.

Modifié par squee365, 31 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

schneeland wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just thought of something..

there is that part in the Sur'Kesh mission where it is implied that someone tipped Cerberus off about the females..

and I think someone mentioned a scene (though I don't remember it personally) in the Normandy where you can see some unknown person sneaking in the background or something like that...

and of course there is that creepy line from James Vega about "a hum".

Consider these points and the one that you can sometimes hear TIM in the dream scenes...

Maybe a Cerberus spy brought one of those Reaper-brainwash-devices on the Normandy and hid it somewhere? And it has been subtly influencing you all the time?

I just had to turn a light on because of you... it's late here.

Well, that's possible, but I wonder where it would be hidden. As stated a dozen pages ago, the indoctrination devices we saw (http://masseffect.wi..._Abandoned_Mine and in Arrival) were rather large. The only thing I can say is that the image has some resemblance with the Mass Effect core of the Normandy.

But in ME3 there's that one Cerberus mission where you have to collect these brainwashing devices, and they are rather small. They could easily be hidden in a ship.

and yeah, it's amazing how we are creeping each other out here

[Jadebaby]

Martukis wrote...

 Also, to those who didn't play arrival, as far as I know, the game assumes either Shep or a group of alliance marines completed the mission. While this might weaken the argument that Shep was indoc'd then, I think it may have set bigger things in motion. For evidence, check http://mod.gib.me/ma...3/testdump2.txt and ctrl+F for "Alpha Relay".

So then I ask, why are you being arrested at the start of your ME3 game if you didn't do arrival and someone else was to blame for aratoht?

[SixG90]

Chyliss wrote...

Question: A couple of minutes after you enter the beam and "arrive" on the Citadel, you get +15 reputation and +2 Paragon for no apparent reason... There is no dialogue or event that seems to obviously trigger that, so where is it coming from? Any ideas? Was this brought up already and I just missed it?

Also, it's pretty suspicious that Shep has his scars back and looks like he did at the beginning of ME2 from the moment he comes to on the ground before approaching the beam. That can't be a coincidence.

I noticed that even when I didn't know anithing about IT and, with the location of the last 10 min (collector ship "alley", shadowbroker ship engine, TIM office, and citadel interior from ME1) made me believe that maybe it was only a dream...in fact my shep was full paragon.. so no scars, and then BUM scars again?

[Rifneno]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So then I ask, why are you being arrested at the start of your ME3 game if you didn't do arrival and someone else was to blame for aratoht?

There was an... 'incident' in the Afterlife VIP room. 

[Dwailing]

mrs.N7 wrote...

Chyliss wrote...

Question: A couple of minutes after you enter the beam and "arrive" on the Citadel, you get +15 reputation and +2 Paragon for no apparent reason... There is no dialogue or event that seems to obviously trigger that, so where is it coming from? Any ideas? Was this brought up already and I just missed it?

Also, it's pretty suspicious that Shep has his scars back and looks like he did at the beginning of ME2 from the moment he comes to on the ground before approaching the beam. That can't be a coincidence.

I noticed that even when I didn't know anithing about IT and, with the location of the last 10 min (collector ship "alley", shadowbroker ship engine, TIM office, and citadel interior from ME1) made me believe that maybe it was only a dream...in fact my shep was full paragon.. so no scars, and then BUM scars again?

Yeah, I saw the scars, too.  I noticed not just because I was a Paragon, but also because I had the upgrade from ME2 that makes your scars disappear.