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[schneeland]

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

I've read through the opening post of this thread and have watched the main videos of the IT. However, I don't think I've seen anyone bring this up. (Although, I'm sure they have.) During the Shepard breath scene, is it just me or does background noise sound awfully like Reaper growls and planes flying?

Anyone want to address this?

Yeah, I thought that, too.

Must be my ears. I didn't hear that.

Here, around 8:00, turn your volume to maximum and listen carefully.  
 

Ok. I hear it, now. However, to me it sounds rather like metal structures groaning under weight. Kind of the sounds you normally associate with old ships or factories. I think that's why I associated it rather with a collapsing building or so when I saw Shepard lying in the debris.

Edit: Actually, don't they just sound like that period?

Well maybe. I was too busy running and shooting, whenever I met them ... but I guess that could be true ... after all they are just large pieces of metal with some shiny tech inside.

[schneeland]

kilgorek wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

I've read through the opening post of this thread and have watched the main videos of the IT. However, I don't think I've seen anyone bring this up. (Although, I'm sure they have.) During the Shepard breath scene, is it just me or does background noise sound awfully like Reaper growls and planes flying?

Anyone want to address this?

Yeah, I thought that, too.

Must be my ears. I didn't hear that.

Here, around 8:00, turn your volume to maximum and listen carefully.  
 

Ok. I hear it, now. However, to me it sounds rather like metal structures groaning under weight. Kind of the sounds you normally associate with old ships or factories. I think that's why I associated it rather with a collapsing building or so when I saw Shepard lying in the debris.

Why would we be hearing a collapsing structure if Shepard is still in London? There were no buildings around him.

That largely depends on where the indoctrination starts - if it was earlier than the blast scene, then there are actually building around.

[kilgorek]

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

[MechaGaiden]

I am very much liking the sound of the indoctrination theory. I usually dismiss fan theories as being for tin-foil hat wearers but this one has an awful lot of evidence behind it. It might partially have to do with the fact that I'm still reeling from the ending and want something to latch onto, but its better than nothing.

However, even if it does turn out that this was the true meaning of ME3's ending, I'm not sure I will be satisfied. If future DLC goes the route of exploring this theory, Bioware had better do a damn good job to justify how rage-inducing the ending was at first. "Indoctrinating" the fanbase is a very clever idea, but I'm not sure that the sense of betrayal they created with the ending would be worth it. The issue is that the hints toward indoctrination are subtle enough that many if not most people wouldn't put the pieces together by themselves, hence why the ending appears jaw-droppingly stupid if taken at face value.

[clennon8]

kilgorek wrote...

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

I don't really consider that a big point of IT.  Just another small thing that gives pause.

Much more important points to me, are the Star Child taking the appearance of that kid, and the mysterious wound that appears on Shepard's stomach right after Anderson dies.  Those things go beyond mere speculation and wishful thinking.  Those need serious explanations, not just hand-waving.

[DashingSplash]

kilgorek wrote...

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

I saw those trees on my run down. Got no footage nor screenshots of it so I can't provide any "solid" evidence for you.

[schneeland]

DashingSplash wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

I saw those trees on my run down. Got no footage nor screenshots of it so I can't provide any "solid" evidence for you.

Somebody posted screenshots a few pages ago. It looked like there were tree on the run down. However, some other user said, there were more in the scenes after.

I do, however, also not consider the trees to be stronger evidence for IT.

[dorktainian]

I think shep was Indoctrinated well before the final charge, but that was the point where Harbie took his mind. What happened after that is all subjective. Shep is reasoning with himself as to how to end this. Does he allow the reapers to in effect win (synthesis), does he allow Indoctrination to win (control) or does he break free (destroy)?

The voices in sheps head before he takes his breath.......... His location in the ruins....

[DashingSplash]

schneeland wrote...

DashingSplash wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

I saw those trees on my run down. Got no footage nor screenshots of it so I can't provide any "solid" evidence for you.

Somebody posted screenshots a few pages ago. It looked like there were tree on the run down. However, some other user said, there were more in the scenes after.

I do, however, also not consider the trees to be stronger evidence for IT.

 

At 8:22 you can clearly see the tree to the left of Shepard.
Even if there are more or less, does it matter? There are still trees there from the beginning.

[trey40]

well in the breath scene what we hear is definitely some sort of collapsing structure/steel or whatever, no reaper growl. but you hear a reaper growl in the scene with TIM and Anderson in die citadel control room.

[Dwailing]

schneeland wrote...

DashingSplash wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

I saw those trees on my run down. Got no footage nor screenshots of it so I can't provide any "solid" evidence for you.

Somebody posted screenshots a few pages ago. It looked like there were tree on the run down. However, some other user said, there were more in the scenes after.

I do, however, also not consider the trees to be stronger evidence for IT.

If you look, there are trees on the left and right on your way down.  But after the blast, you see a tree that looks very much like one of the ones from the dreams right behind where you stand up.  Coincidence?  No, seriously, coincidence? I want to know, too. 

[kish]

kilgorek wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

I've read through the opening post of this thread and have watched the main videos of the IT. However, I don't think I've seen anyone bring this up. (Although, I'm sure they have.) During the Shepard breath scene, is it just me or does background noise sound awfully like Reaper growls and planes flying?

Anyone want to address this?

Yeah, I thought that, too.

Must be my ears. I didn't hear that.

Here, around 8:00, turn your volume to maximum and listen carefully.  
 

Ok. I hear it, now. However, to me it sounds rather like metal structures groaning under weight. Kind of the sounds you normally associate with old ships or factories. I think that's why I associated it rather with a collapsing building or so when I saw Shepard lying in the debris.

Why would we be hearing a collapsing structure if Shepard is still in London? There were no buildings around him.

I played ME2 yesterday and the background sound in the derelict reaper
sounds awfully similar. Especially in the beginning, when you're near
the big glass window. ..where there are also a bunch of those metallic pipes similar to the breath scene's.

Might be just re-using of the same bg ambient, but nevertheless I find it odd that the breath scene is so.. silent. I mean if you're in London, shouldn't there be at least some noise? People cheering at the defeated reapers at least, and explosions and such in case of indoctrination.

[Dendio1]

There are trees and shrubs during the run down before you get blasted by harby. The number of shrubs starts out small then increases to where they are everywhere after u wake up from the blast. The trees and shrubs are found no where else in all of priority earth.

.

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[kilgorek]

clennon8 wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

So, has it been confirmed that there are actually trees during the initial run to the beam? I tried watching a video of it but I didn't see any. Someone else also said that there are trees in the initial run, but significantly more after you wake up.

This is kind of a big point of IT. What is the truth?

I don't really consider that a big point of IT.  Just another small thing that gives pause.

Much more important points to me, are the Star Child taking the appearance of that kid, and the mysterious wound that appears on Shepard's stomach right after Anderson dies.  Those things go beyond mere speculation and wishful thinking.  Those need serious explanations, not just hand-waving.

Well, it's obviously not as blatant as the evidence you mentioned above, nor the Shepard breath scene, but I still feel it was strong evidence if true. No, it's far from a deal breaker that it isn't, but Bioware placing the trees from your dreams there would clearly be an intentional artistic choice.

[Angmir]

Well that breath scene is actualy one thing that dont work well with the IDT.

The most obvious and possible moment to restart after the Indoctrination attemps woudl be beeing hit by the beam. I cant imagine BIOWARE pulling back more than to that Conduit chase. After all it was only after beeing hit by Harbingers beam when the whole game started resembling a dream, before that evrytihng seemed real. And there wasnt any moment Shepard might loose to indoctrination earlier (only moment he lost conciusness was "embracing eternity" with Liara and I dont think she woudl triger his Indoctrination )

So no

Only possible moment for Sjepard to give in to Indoctrination would be sometime between destroying Reaper Destroyer with Thanix and running towards the Conduit.

Problem is where did all that Rubble covering Shepard come from ...

Modifié par Angmir, 01 avril 2012 - 08:51 .

[Dwailing]

Dendio1 wrote...

There are trees and shrubs during the run down before you get blasted by harby. The number of shrubs starts out small then increases to where they are everywhere after the blast. The trees and shrubs are found no where else in all of priority earth

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if Shepard wasn't already starting to hallucinate of the run down thanks to his proximity to Harbinger.  That could explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams being there.

[Dendio1]

Dwailing wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

There are trees and shrubs during the run down before you get blasted by harby. The number of shrubs starts out small then increases to where they are everywhere after the blast. The trees and shrubs are found no where else in all of priority earth

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if Shepard wasn't already starting to hallucinate of the run down thanks to his proximity to Harbinger.  That could explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams being there.

Another thing to notice is how the mounds of pink and dark blue human bodies do not appear until after the blast.

[Dwailing]

Angmir wrote...

Well that breath scene is actualy one thing that dont work well with the IDT.

The most obvious and possible moment to restart after the Indoctrination attemps woudl be beeing hit by the beam. I cant imagine BIOWARE pulling back more than to that Conduit chase. After all it was only after beeing hit by Harbingers beam when the whole game started resembling a dream, before that evrytihng seemed real. And there wasnt any moment Shepard might loose to indoctrination earlier (only moment he lost conciusness was "embracing eternity" with Liara and I dont think she woudl triger his Indoctrination )

So no

Only possible moment for Sjepard to give in to Indoctrination would be sometime between destroying Reaper Destroyer with Thanix and running towards the Conduit.

Problem is where did all that Rubble covering Shepard come from ...

Yeah.... Wait, what?  I'd try to come up with a counter argument, but, and I'm trying to be polite here, I really don't understand what you're saying. 

[waldstr18]

Dwailing wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

There are trees and shrubs during the run down before you get blasted by harby. The number of shrubs starts out small then increases to where they are everywhere after the blast. The trees and shrubs are found no where else in all of priority earth

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if Shepard wasn't already starting to hallucinate of the run down thanks to his proximity to Harbinger.  That could explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams being there.

oh, is the indoctrination theory getting extended?

[Dwailing]

Dendio1 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

There are trees and shrubs during the run down before you get blasted by harby. The number of shrubs starts out small then increases to where they are everywhere after the blast. The trees and shrubs are found no where else in all of priority earth

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if Shepard wasn't already starting to hallucinate of the run down thanks to his proximity to Harbinger.  That could explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams being there.

Another thing to notice is how the mounds of pink and dark blue human bodies do not appear until after the blast.

Yeah, so many things after the blast just don't add up.

[kilgorek]

chorda wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

I've read through the opening post of this thread and have watched the main videos of the IT. However, I don't think I've seen anyone bring this up. (Although, I'm sure they have.) During the Shepard breath scene, is it just me or does background noise sound awfully like Reaper growls and planes flying?

Anyone want to address this?

Yeah, I thought that, too.

Must be my ears. I didn't hear that.

Here, around 8:00, turn your volume to maximum and listen carefully.  
 

Ok. I hear it, now. However, to me it sounds rather like metal structures groaning under weight. Kind of the sounds you normally associate with old ships or factories. I think that's why I associated it rather with a collapsing building or so when I saw Shepard lying in the debris.

Why would we be hearing a collapsing structure if Shepard is still in London? There were no buildings around him.

I played ME2 yesterday and the background sound in the derelict reaper
sounds awfully similar. Especially in the beginning, when you're near
the big glass window. ..where there are also a bunch of those metallic pipes similar to the breath scene's.

Might be just re-using of the same bg ambient, but nevertheless I find it odd that the breath scene is so.. silent. I mean if you're in London, shouldn't there be at least some noise? People cheering at the defeated reapers at least, and explosions and such in case of indoctrination.

Well, if it is after the laser blast, then we can assume that HAMMER was entirely wiped out. The faint radio chatter confirms this.

If it is when the shuttle gets taken down, then we can also assume that there may not be anyone near where the ship crashed down.

[kilgorek]

Angmir wrote...

Well that breath scene is actualy one thing that dont work well with the IDT.

The most obvious and possible moment to restart after the Indoctrination attemps woudl be beeing hit by the beam. I cant imagine BIOWARE pulling back more than to that Conduit chase. After all it was only after beeing hit by Harbingers beam when the whole game started resembling a dream, before that evrytihng seemed real. And there wasnt any moment Shepard might loose to indoctrination earlier (only moment he lost conciusness was "embracing eternity" with Liara and I dont think she woudl triger his Indoctrination )

So no

Only possible moment for Sjepard to give in to Indoctrination would be sometime between destroying Reaper Destroyer with Thanix and running towards the Conduit.

Problem is where did all that Rubble covering Shepard come from ...

Stop. Turn. Explain.

[Dendio1]

There is also a pair of computer monitors that have backwards alliance numbers on them that are comparable to 1m1 on the way there. Computer monitors are everywhere as you venture through the final mission. All but that one set have the numbers correctly displayed.

I went through priority earth and tried to take screenshots, but looks like Pressing Printscreen doesnt do it?

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

[Angmir]

Dwailing wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

There are trees and shrubs during the run down before you get blasted by harby. The number of shrubs starts out small then increases to where they are everywhere after the blast. The trees and shrubs are found no where else in all of priority earth

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if Shepard wasn't already starting to hallucinate of the run down thanks to his proximity to Harbinger.  That could explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams being there.

Actauly I started thinging Shepards ilussion starts right after killing the Reaper Destroyer. whole chase to the COnduit look to similar to the scene on Ilos. I belive it is the part of his reminiscing in the dream world.

Entire sequence is replaying the events form ME1 for him - conduit chase, then ilussive man killing himself in exact same manner Saren did.

But I am never excluding other options  -this just seems most likely at this time.

[Angmir]

Dwailing wrote...

Angmir wrote...

Well that breath scene is actualy one thing that dont work well with the IDT.

The most obvious and possible moment to restart playing after the Indoctrination attempt failed, would be resume playing after beeing hit by the Harbingers beam. I cant imagine BIOWARE pulling back more, than to that Conduit chase.
After all it was only after beeing hit by Harbingers beam when the whole game started resembling a dream, before that evrytihng seemed real. And there wasnt any moment Shepard might loose to indoctrination earlier (only moment he lost conciusness was "embracing eternity" with Liara and I dont think she would triger his Indoctrination )

So no

Only possible moment for Shepard to give in to Indoctrination would be sometime between destroying Reaper Destroyer with Thanix and running towards the Conduit.

Problem is where did all that Rubble covering Shepard come from ...

Yeah.... Wait, what?  I'd try to come up with a counter argument, but, and I'm trying to be polite here, I really don't understand what you're saying. 

Sorry for English and terrible spelling. I think I changed my sentence a little bit, so hopefully it will be more understandable now.