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[3Minotaur3]

savagejuicebox wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

Shepard, looking at the windows, see the kid playing with a toy fighter. Then he talks to him in the air duct scene.
He indoctrinated these as well?

If you'd read more than...  nothing I guess, you'd know that the general theory is yes, he was.  In fact the air duct one is far more suspicious than the shuttle scene where no one seems to see him.  First the kid goes into the building which is quickly demolished by a Reaper and is mysteriously unscathed.  Second, his dialogue to Shepard, "You can't save me" is just sinister and foreboding.  After he says that, Shepard is distracted by Anderson.  When this happens, a growl can be heard.  No, it is not coming from the Reapers outside and if you have surround sound you can tell that it comes from all channels, unlike almost everything else happening.  The tie-in?  When Paul Grayson gets distracted from a Reaper manifestation in the novels, there's a growl from the annoyed Reaper.  Speaking of sound, when Shepard looks back the kid is gone.  Vanished like a ghost.  Oh I know, "he left through the vents".  Except the very thing that got Shepard's attention to him is the sound of him crawling around the ducts and all the racket that makes.  Which is completely absent from his disappearing act.  Boy, those sound effects guys must really be dropping the ball! 

Okay, first the shuttle...
When the kid approach it, he's close to the rear left reactor, meaning nobody inside said shuttle can see him. Except the soldiers outside it, whose job is to secure a perimeter around the shuttle. When he try to enter the shuttle, again he choose to climb on a corner of the door, where we see only legs pointing in all directions, except in his direction. That could explain why nobody inside saw him fast enough to lend him a hand.
Also, why wait for the kid before closing the shuttle door? It's someone inside the shuttle (the pilot?) that can close the doors, not the soldiers outside. That means someone inside see the kid then tells the pilot to close the door, or one of the soldiers outside communicate with the pilot to close the door. Maybe the soldier banging the door with is fist, maybe not. And nothing can be heard because it was a zoomed point of view from Shepard... 

Now the Duct...
I can hardly say the building is destroyed, only damaged. The first room we see, where the husks tries to enter is indeed hit, but only anything not nail on the floor seems damaged. Walls and floors are ok. And the next one has only the door malfunctionning, everything else seems in mint condition, all things considered. And the kid was in that side of the building, so he could have survived in the duct, protected by undamaged walls.
As for the sound in the duct, why the kid would make a vent sound in the first place, if he's an hallucination?
Lots of games make the vent mistake. Remember Half-life or Deus Ex? All duct conduits are cleans and soundless. In reality (for working at the maintenance of some ventilation systems) Duct are always dirty and you can't touch them without making a metallic sound.
But lets assume ME3 duct technology has improves alot. The kid probably doesn't make any sound walking normally in it. After all, he doesn't make any sound when talking to Shepard. He was probably frighten by the presence of Shepard and Anderson, make a sudden move (backward, for example) and hit hard the vent back to him. After Shepard was distracted by Anderson, he just goes the other way normally, inside the improved, soundless vent...

You can't save me... Who know what happens in a kid head at that age. He don't know Shepard and he probably saw those huge squids-like monsters destroying everything. How can Shepard can protect him? We know nothing of this kid to assume why he reacted that way...

As for how the kid managed to get from point A to point B that fast, etc... It's not the first time in gaming, writing or movie making that a caracter seems to appears out of nowhere. A killer that was behind the victim suddenly appears in front of him. Someone unconscious wake up at the right moment to turn the tide, etc... Bioware Writers decided the kid was an important part of the story, and decided he should be seens often, and the how it got from A to B was secondary for the story...

Seriously? "maybe nobody sees the kid?" Thats really what you are saying? You actually think the developers would make it so obvious that nobody sees the kid on accident? Really? c'mon, if the kid was real someone else would have acknowledged the kid in some way... I refuse to believe this was an accident.

The kid was acknowledged, because they wait for him to climb before closing the door. We just don't know who saw him, then tells the pilot to close the door...
And yes the developpers could make it that obvious, to focus the link (and viewpoint) between the Kid and Shepard...

Modifié par 3Minotaur3, 01 avril 2012 - 10:24 .

[PoisonMushroom]

I've read a lot on the indoctrination theory, but not that much from this thread, so I might be covering old ground here. The theory makes sense to me. I think Bioware either intended to hint at this idea (as one of the controversial aspects of the ending, to get people talking) but not necessarily have it as the canon ending OR the ending we've been given was at some point part of an indoctrination scene that was changed for some reason (time constraints, last minute changes etc).

I really, really wish they'd have just used the current ending as an indoctrination fake-ending that could be broken by choosing destroy. This would have been such a clever gaming device, and an absolutely genius way of testing you. The problem is that even if all this indoctrination stuff is true, without any more gameplay after it, it's just as bad an ending as the more conventional interpretation.

[3Minotaur3]

PoisonMushroom wrote...

...

I really, really wish they'd have just used the current ending as an indoctrination fake-ending that could be broken by choosing destroy. This would have been such a clever gaming device, and an absolutely genius way of testing you. The problem is that even if all this indoctrination stuff is true, without any more gameplay after it, it's just as bad an ending as the more conventional interpretation.

Indeed, it would have been better than the actual ending. Still, the 'your choice matters' and the '16 endings' would still be turned into 1 true ending and the rest is false ending. Not what EA/bioware was telling us to expect...

[Voodzik]

 Ok! Longtime lurker on this thread. Got a few things to throw out that I finally can since my game is finally registered, from a pov I haven't seen discussed. And I didn't miss too many pages, either....

First off, I'm a writer. Raised by writers, been around publishing my entire life. I'm not very successful (read as: "still needs a day job") not claiming super expertise here, just that I have extensive training in the skill set. And I know that writing has a...a flow. A rhythm. To paraphrase Terry Pratchett, that's not actually how it works at all but it sounds good enough.

What bothered me about the endings was that they broke rhythm. They were just....WRONG. And no decent writer...certainly no writers as good as the ones who worked on the rest of the game....should make that mistake. Even bad writers usually don't screw up that way. It was like Beethoven's 9th suddenly switching to death metal. Does not fit.

.....unless Indoc. Indoc makes the endings make sense. It's the right....well that sounds a little conceited. It's a GOOD narrative "note." it makes the rest of everything they've done make sense.

So that's why struggling writer brigade in Pennsylvania is holding the line.

Two other notes: one, at one point Joker actively discourages synthesis. It's right after Rannoch. Vega asks him why her doesn't get a suit to fix his legs and joker talks about why that would be bad.

Also, as for why shep is in rubble? It's London. The city is built on tunnels built on tunnels built on.....

[Kyzee]

3Minotaur3 wrote...


The kid was acknowledged, because they wait for him to climb before closing the door. We just don't know who saw him, then tells the pilot to close the door...
And yes the developpers could make it that obvious, to focus the link (and viewpoint) between the Kid and Shepard...

I don't think there's any way to say for certain whether the kid was for real or not. It's the topic that's most open fir speculation, in my opinion. I personally lean a bit more towards the kid being a hallucination from the beginning simply because of the litttle scene that Bioware put in, showing the going into the building right before it gets blown up. Not only did he survive the explosion while being in a vent (??), but he reached the building by scaling the side of a building where there was no ladder or stairs of any sort. It's a detail worth noting, because Bioware put in the detail of the kid going into the building in the first place. They wouldn't if it didn't have some significance.

[AIR MOORE]

If Shep was being Indoctrinated since the start of the game, Javik almost certainly would have sensed this when he touched Shep and read out everything he was feeling. They may say it started then, and it's just bad writing, it should occur sometime AFTER Javik "reads" Shep.

I say this because he was especially in-tune with the reapers (considering this is how they took down his galaxy, with indoc agents.) We can surmise that these agents known of their own powers and thus did not allow themselves to be touched by others to get a good read, or that they somehow quarantined this power away in certain parts of their body (similar to what Matriach B. did with her mind, but on a grander scale).

Bottom line is the only way for indoctrination to occur is after this scene with Javik... unless IT theorists come back to this is "HOW SLOW IT GOES MATTERS!?!" Well where are we getting this from? Where does it say how slow it occurs would have any impact upon how Javik (and to a lesser extent the Prothean VI) can sense this occurring. In other words, the writing simply never states that Javik who can seem to sense everything, would be able to overlook and miss this (especially since he is so in-tune with the reapers and their ability to have agents, you would think he would look for this specifically in Shep, knowing his place in the galactic lines.)

Sure you can "speculate" going slow can slip it under Javiks radar, but no where does the writing say that this is true, that the level and speed of indoc matter to Javiks ability to sense anything. He sensed everything about Grunt from an overhauled ship. (I've already covered why with his OWN people it's much easier to see why they could miss it). All is pure speculation. They would have to offer some reasonable explanation why he missed it (and to a lesser extent the VI) in the DLC.

(Commence IT theorists insanity and rage!)

Note: I've made other threads on this issue to let us know how to tell if this INDOC was planned VS not planned.

I'm believing it's a self-fulfilling prophecy or sorts (term used loosely).

[Voodzik]

Oh, and now that I've finally posted my holding the line, some devils advocate on my own reason for supporting IT: Would not be the first time I know of a great author screwing their own story up with a pointless ending, albeit not quite that way.

((Has flashbacks to the last three chapters of "the stand"...why, Mr. King? Why?))

[PoisonMushroom]

3Minotaur3 wrote...

PoisonMushroom wrote...

...

I really, really wish they'd have just used the current ending as an indoctrination fake-ending that could be broken by choosing destroy. This would have been such a clever gaming device, and an absolutely genius way of testing you. The problem is that even if all this indoctrination stuff is true, without any more gameplay after it, it's just as bad an ending as the more conventional interpretation.

Indeed, it would have been better than the actual ending. Still, the 'your choice matters' and the '16 endings' would still be turned into 1 true ending and the rest is false ending. Not what EA/bioware was telling us to expect...

Not necessarily, because the destroy choice could have still branched out into a load of endings because destroy would mean breaking indoctrination, not finishing the game. And the fake-endings would still be intruiging in their own right, because you will have fallen prey to a false narrative. It would have would simply be a test of your willpower against indoctrination. I personally can't think of a potentially more enjoyable way of losing a game. Then again I'm writing a dissertation on unreliable narration, so I love this sort of thing.

[Dwailing]

AIR MOORE wrote...

If Shep was being Indoctrinated since the start of the game, Javik almost certainly would have sensed this when he touched Shep and read out everything he was feeling. They may say it started then, and it's just bad writing, it should occur sometime AFTER Javik "reads" Shep.

I say this because he was especially in-tune with the reapers (considering this is how they took down his galaxy, with indoc agents.) We can surmise that these agents known of their own powers and thus did not allow themselves to be touched by others to get a good read, or that they somehow quarantined this power away in certain parts of their body (similar to what Matriach B. did with her mind, but on a grander scale).

Bottom line is the only way for indoctrination to occur is after this scene with Javik... unless IT theorists come back to this is "HOW SLOW IT GOES MATTERS!?!" Well where are we getting this from? Where does it say how slow it occurs would have any impact upon how Javik (and to a lesser extent the Prothean VI) can sense this occurring. In other words, the writing simply never states that Javik who can seem to sense everything, would be able to overlook and miss this (especially since he is so in-tune with the reapers and their ability to have agents, you would think he would look for this specifically in Shep, knowing his place in the galactic lines.)

Sure you can "speculate" going slow can slip it under Javiks radar, but no where does the writing say that this is true, that the level and speed of indoc matter to Javiks ability to sense anything. He sensed everything about Grunt from an overhauled ship. (I've already covered why with his OWN people it's much easier to see why they could miss it). All is pure speculation. They would have to offer some reasonable explanation why he missed it (and to a lesser extent the VI) in the DLC.

(Commence IT theorists insanity and rage!)

Note: I've made other threads on this issue to let us know how to tell if this INDOC was planned VS not planned.

I'm believing it's a self-fulfilling prophecy or sorts (term used loosely).

I should, no, MUST, point out that the Protheans were NOT experts at detecting indoctrination.  It is CLEARLY stated by Javik on Thessia that they only learned that the radicals that wanted to use the Crucible to control the Reapers were indoctrinated AFTER they did the damage.  If they were always able to detect indoctrination, then why were the indoctrinated individuals able to do any damage at all?  Simple, they were not nearly as good at detecting indoc as many, including you, it would seem, would believe.

[n00bsauce2010]

We know prothean VI and protheans themselves are not fool proof when it comes to detecting indoctrination. We know that sleeper agents were indoctrinated and they couldn't detect it. They also would've noticed something was off about them if they didn't want to be touched.. so I think that theory is kinda hopeful. The protheans are much smarter than we give them credit for, they would've easily have known their agents were indoctrinated if their sensing ability was fool proof (but it wasn't.. hence they lost the war)

We can also assume the VI on thessia was a little whack too. Because Kai Leng was in the general area and it did not detect him until moments later (unless we assume they have some sort of radius.. and in that case it is very small)

I don't think the VI's/prothean sensing ability is concrete evidence for either side. We don't really know a lot about them except for the fact that it was not fool proof.

[Rifneno]

3Minotaur3 wrote...

When the kid approach it, he's close to the rear left reactor, meaning nobody inside said shuttle can see him. Except the soldiers outside it, whose job is to secure a perimeter around the shuttle. When he try to enter the shuttle, again he choose to climb on a corner of the door, where we see only legs pointing in all directions, except in his direction. That could explain why nobody inside saw him fast enough to lend him a hand.

Not true. You can only see legs, but since feet only point toward the front we do know for certain that at the very least the soldier near the door could've seen him. The one who only had to bend down and grab him by the jacket and pull him up while he struggles to get in.

Also, why wait for the kid before closing the shuttle door? It's someone inside the shuttle (the pilot?) that can close the doors, not the soldiers outside. That means someone inside see the kid then tells the pilot to close the door, or one of the soldiers outside communicate with the pilot to close the door. Maybe the soldier banging the door with is fist, maybe not. And nothing can be heard because it was a zoomed point of view from Shepard...

Apparently assumptions are only okay when you're the one doing them.

I can hardly say the building is destroyed, only damaged.

You need glasses. Get someone else to drive you to Lenscrafters though, because wow.

As for the sound in the duct, why the kid would make a vent sound in the first place, if he's an hallucination?

I think I'm getting a migraine...

Lots of games make the vent mistake. Remember Half-life or Deus Ex? All duct conduits are cleans and soundless. In reality (for working at the maintenance of some ventilation systems) Duct are always dirty and you can't touch them without making a metallic sound.

Haven't played Half-Life and I haven't played Deus Ex since Voodoo cards were "teh w1n". So no. But regardless, since we're bringing in other games made by other companies in other eras, I submit that this is obviously a dream because Super Mario Brothers 2 was.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

But lets assume ME3 duct technology has improves alot. The kid probably doesn't make any sound walking normally in it. After all, he doesn't make any sound when talking to Shepard. He was probably frighten by the presence of Shepard and Anderson, make a sudden move (backward, for example) and hit hard the vent back to him. After Shepard was distracted by Anderson, he just goes the other way normally, inside the improved, soundless vent...

Yeah, we're the ones grasping at straws. But man, that duct technology sure has advanced since there's an electricity warning on that vent.

You can't save me... Who know what happens in a kid head at that age. He don't know Shepard and he probably saw those huge squids-like monsters destroying everything. How can Shepard can protect him? We know nothing of this kid to assume why he reacted that way...

People who could make an assumption about that: anyone who has ever met any kid ever. Children scream and cry, not make foreboding comments seemingly designed to cut away at the resolve of their would-be rescuers.

As for how the kid managed to get from point A to point B that fast, etc... It's not the first time in gaming, writing or movie making that a caracter seems to appears out of nowhere. A killer that was behind the victim suddenly appears in front of him. Someone unconscious wake up at the right moment to turn the tide, etc... Bioware Writers decided the kid was an important part of the story, and decided he should be seens often, and the how it got from A to B was secondary for the story...

Oh good, we're back to using examples of the completely unrelated. And we've stopped even restricting outselves to video games, now we're into horror movies! How quaint, and completely relevant. They should've included a scene where Shepard destroys the Reapers with a bunch of rockets with "Acme" on them. Since the coyote does it, surely it must apply here!

[Voodzik]

@Rifneno, I think you might be being a bit unfair. While 3Mino is being a little too confrontational about it for my tastes, he raises some valid points. And since ME is meant to be "cinematic," movies are a valid comparison.

But I think his choice of example was interesting, since the reason killers pop up where they shouldn't in movies is to hint at an almost supernatural level of power to make them scarier. Remember, MOST things that happen in a high budget production are there for a reason. And if the kid isn't a reaper, he doesn't need to seem supernatural or threatening...

[nyrocron]

kilgorek wrote...

Again, it's just the same tired "lazy" excuse all the anti-ITists throw out. In my opinion, that's way too convenient of an explanation. Plus, I don't see the uncaringness that this guy suggests throughout the entire game.

I agree. I saw how they cared about the game in many little things. And I still believe that BioWare will come up with something great. Until proven otherwise. It has not to be indoctrination, as long as they come up with a good explanation i will maybe accept it. If they fail at this, I will be gone. But that did not happen yet.

[n00bsauce2010]

3Minotaur3 wrote...

Also, why wait for the kid before closing the shuttle door? It's someone inside the shuttle (the pilot?) that can close the doors, not the soldiers outside. That means someone inside see the kid then tells the pilot to close the door, or one of the soldiers outside communicate with the pilot to close the door. Maybe the soldier banging the door with is fist, maybe not. And nothing can be heard because it was a zoomed point of view from Shepard...

!

Go watch the video for that last sequence there. Pay attention. You'll notice a coupe of things.

The soldiers acknowledge the civillians and tell them to hurry on-board.

One of the soldiers is seen helping an injured civillian on board

There is a lone alliance soldier whos stance indicates he is facing outward and is able to see the general direction the boy is standing.. but he doesn't see the boy. If he did he would've rushed to help him.. but all other civillians were being attended to at the moment.

The very fact that one of the alliance soldiers is seen helping a civillian is pretty definitive evidence that the boy isn't real.

The boy can be seen struggling to get on board the shuttle, just like the injured civillian (who is helped up by a soldier)...that same soldier or possibily another one would've done the exact same thing and helped him up.. but he didn't.. because he isn't real.

Maybe that kid was real the first two times you see him.. but in the vent.. he is not. There are no abrubt vent noises indicating the boy is moving inside the vent after anderson interrupts (we know that general noise is what alerts sheperd that the boy is there in the first place) And the ludicrous dialogue he spews is more fuel to the fire - "Everyone's dieing and You can't save me" children just don't say that.

Also the two growls.. someone pointed out.. go through all channels.. i have surround sound and I can confirm. The reaper in the background doesn't go through all channels.

The very fact that no one ever acknowledges the boy seems to mean he isn't real. Soldiers number one priority is to ensure civillian safety.. and the fact that they disregard that boy and no one else ever sees him means it is inside shepards head.

[Dwailing]

Rifneno wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

When the kid approach it, he's close to the rear left reactor, meaning nobody inside said shuttle can see him. Except the soldiers outside it, whose job is to secure a perimeter around the shuttle. When he try to enter the shuttle, again he choose to climb on a corner of the door, where we see only legs pointing in all directions, except in his direction. That could explain why nobody inside saw him fast enough to lend him a hand.

Not true. You can only see legs, but since feet only point toward the front we do know for certain that at the very least the soldier near the door could've seen him. The one who only had to bend down and grab him by the jacket and pull him up while he struggles to get in.

Also, why wait for the kid before closing the shuttle door? It's someone inside the shuttle (the pilot?) that can close the doors, not the soldiers outside. That means someone inside see the kid then tells the pilot to close the door, or one of the soldiers outside communicate with the pilot to close the door. Maybe the soldier banging the door with is fist, maybe not. And nothing can be heard because it was a zoomed point of view from Shepard...

Apparently assumptions are only okay when you're the one doing them.

I can hardly say the building is destroyed, only damaged.

You need glasses. Get someone else to drive you to Lenscrafters though, because wow.

As for the sound in the duct, why the kid would make a vent sound in the first place, if he's an hallucination?

I think I'm getting a migraine...

Lots of games make the vent mistake. Remember Half-life or Deus Ex? All duct conduits are cleans and soundless. In reality (for working at the maintenance of some ventilation systems) Duct are always dirty and you can't touch them without making a metallic sound.

Haven't played Half-Life and I haven't played Deus Ex since Voodoo cards were "teh w1n". So no. But regardless, since we're bringing in other games made by other companies in other eras, I submit that this is obviously a dream because Super Mario Brothers 2 was.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

But lets assume ME3 duct technology has improves alot. The kid probably doesn't make any sound walking normally in it. After all, he doesn't make any sound when talking to Shepard. He was probably frighten by the presence of Shepard and Anderson, make a sudden move (backward, for example) and hit hard the vent back to him. After Shepard was distracted by Anderson, he just goes the other way normally, inside the improved, soundless vent...

Yeah, we're the ones grasping at straws. But man, that duct technology sure has advanced since there's an electricity warning on that vent.

You can't save me... Who know what happens in a kid head at that age. He don't know Shepard and he probably saw those huge squids-like monsters destroying everything. How can Shepard can protect him? We know nothing of this kid to assume why he reacted that way...

People who could make an assumption about that: anyone who has ever met any kid ever. Children scream and cry, not make foreboding comments seemingly designed to cut away at the resolve of their would-be rescuers.

As for how the kid managed to get from point A to point B that fast, etc... It's not the first time in gaming, writing or movie making that a caracter seems to appears out of nowhere. A killer that was behind the victim suddenly appears in front of him. Someone unconscious wake up at the right moment to turn the tide, etc... Bioware Writers decided the kid was an important part of the story, and decided he should be seens often, and the how it got from A to B was secondary for the story...

Oh good, we're back to using examples of the completely unrelated. And we've stopped even restricting outselves to video games, now we're into horror movies! How quaint, and completely relevant. They should've included a scene where Shepard destroys the Reapers with a bunch of rockets with "Acme" on them. Since the coyote does it, surely it must apply here!

I sense a disturbance in the force, I mean the :wizard::wizard:.

[n00bsauce2010]

Go to 2:30 - pay attention for the alliance soldier helping up the injured civillian.

[schneeland]

nyrocron wrote...

kilgorek wrote...

Again, it's just the same tired "lazy" excuse all the anti-ITists throw out. In my opinion, that's way too convenient of an explanation. Plus, I don't see the uncaringness that this guy suggests throughout the entire game.

I agree. I saw how they cared about the game in many little things. And I still believe that BioWare will come up with something great. Until proven otherwise. It has not to be indoctrination, as long as they come up with a good explanation i will maybe accept it. If they fail at this, I will be gone. But that did not happen yet.

Pretty much this. I will be happy to see explenations of the things that happened other than IT - they just need to be good. If they don't announce anything, I will be upset. Yet, I am pretty sure they have something in their sleeves.

[n00bsauce2010]

I find it hilarious. I'm a console fanboy and I usually am an achievement trophy ****.. but somehow an emotional response has been invoked in me (caused by this game). It can't seem to stop playing it..Bioware should at least be commended for that. I can't seem to stop talking about it either. I've never played through a game more times than this one.. even with the ending in the shape it's currently in.

[Spiderman_2028]

Wow... Catching up- seems someone completely misread my 'Lego' post. Wasn't defending anti-IT theorists, and wasn't ragging on anyone for being one sided. I was defending being one sided- the meccano in the analogy was the one-point wonders Rifneno has a problem with.

As someone who has read every page (except for 10 or so which I will read once I've written this) I was suggesting it may not be an entirely realistic expectation for everyone who posts in this thread to read everything before making a contribution- which is what people did to the person the post was directed at- then I get ragged on for saying it? "Read 1000 pages before typing" is weak-sauce. If people stick around in the thread, they'll get all the info eventually. You used the search function on this board? It sucks.

As for logical argument- dude, this is the Internet, and we're talking about a video game, and how it's ending could have been influenced by an imaginary race of ancient, evil sentient machines trying to eradicate the galaxy to be nothing more than a hallucination.

In this context, I think logic comes with a considerable amount of salt.

Edit: added stuff.

Modifié par Spiderman_2028, 01 avril 2012 - 11:30 .

[Dwailing]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I find it hilarious. I'm a console fanboy and I usually am an achievement trophy ****.. but somehow an emotional response has been invoked in me (caused by this game). It can't seem to stop playing it..Bioware should at least be commended for that. I can't seem to stop talking about it either. I've never played through a game more times than this one.. even with the ending in the shape it's currently in.

I think it may be BECAUSE of the endings that you can't stop playing and talking about it.  This is almost certainly what Bioware intended.  As they said, "Lots of speculation." 

[n00bsauce2010]

Dwailing wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I find it hilarious. I'm a console fanboy and I usually am an achievement trophy ****.. but somehow an emotional response has been invoked in me (caused by this game). It can't seem to stop playing it..Bioware should at least be commended for that. I can't seem to stop talking about it either. I've never played through a game more times than this one.. even with the ending in the shape it's currently in.

I think it may be BECAUSE of the endings that you can't stop playing and talking about it.  This is almost certainly what Bioware intended.  As they said, "Lots of speculation." 

[kilgorek]

PoisonMushroom wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

PoisonMushroom wrote...

...

I really, really wish they'd have just used the current ending as an indoctrination fake-ending that could be broken by choosing destroy. This would have been such a clever gaming device, and an absolutely genius way of testing you. The problem is that even if all this indoctrination stuff is true, without any more gameplay after it, it's just as bad an ending as the more conventional interpretation.

Indeed, it would have been better than the actual ending. Still, the 'your choice matters' and the '16 endings' would still be turned into 1 true ending and the rest is false ending. Not what EA/bioware was telling us to expect...

Not necessarily, because the destroy choice could have still branched out into a load of endings because destroy would mean breaking indoctrination, not finishing the game. And the fake-endings would still be intruiging in their own right, because you will have fallen prey to a false narrative. It would have would simply be a test of your willpower against indoctrination. I personally can't think of a potentially more enjoyable way of losing a game. Then again I'm writing a dissertation on unreliable narration, so I love this sort of thing.

This. The ending with Star-Kid actually reminds me of The Custom House introduction to Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter. Throughout that opening, Hawthorne actually admits several times that he is an unreliable narrator and the story he's telling may not actually be true at all. Basically, do not take anything in the following story at face value. Some people tend to miss that though. That is what I think of when the Star-Kid is talking. What he says is so non-sensical it's like he's waving at the player and yelling "I'm full of ****! Do not listen to a word I say!"

[Dwailing]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I find it hilarious. I'm a console fanboy and I usually am an achievement trophy ****.. but somehow an emotional response has been invoked in me (caused by this game). It can't seem to stop playing it..Bioware should at least be commended for that. I can't seem to stop talking about it either. I've never played through a game more times than this one.. even with the ending in the shape it's currently in.

I think it may be BECAUSE of the endings that you can't stop playing and talking about it.  This is almost certainly what Bioware intended.  As they said, "Lots of speculation." 

LOL, great.  Where did you find the picture of Casey Hudson in a gladiator costume?  jk, jk  

[FrostByte-GER]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...



Go to 2:30 - pay attention for the alliance soldier helping up the injured civillian.

OKay...and now xD?