57139 réponses à ce sujet

[GBGriffin]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Sorry bud but I simply refuse to believe the alliance soldiers would help up an injured civillian.. but not a little boy. He isn't real..

You know what else isn't real?

Alliance soldiers.

[CLB17]

Macross wrote...

QwertyMusicMan wrote...

Macross wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

All I know is that we need answers

But... but... Speculaton... For everyone!

The thing about indoctrination is that I don't believe it was ever ment to be this super fast process (the super fast process was always huskifcation). Although it can be done rapidily (which as the codex says destorys mental cabilitly) the pure reasoning behind it was less about controlling the person's mind but rathering needing the person to believe what they (the reapers) want them to.

It's been shown that Indoc can be fought of, by holding steadyfast to your ideals (e.g Shepard showing Saren how he'd betrayed his principles breaking indoc long enought for Saren to off himself... same thing with the TIM at the end, if it were real). And if you realise the Destroy ending is the only one where Shepard completely holds onto to his ideals... his spent the whole game telling TIM that TIM was wrong- yet control spits in that ideas face, at the very start of the GodChild/Choice Machine scene he tells the GodChild that Organics aren't machines- yet Synthesis turns everyone in the galaxy into said machines. No matter what the scarfice is (all synthetic life), the destroy ending is the only one where Shepard fully holds onto his ideals and destroys the reapers- breaking the cycle for good.

To further this, may I point out how TIM's choice would have been blue, while Saren's would have been Green. Two main antagonists' ultimate goals represented in two of the choices... yeah, I think Red was the only way to break indoctrination.

Why Green? I've been curiouse about this for a while but why did they go for green? If Syntheis was meant to be the compromise between Control and Destroy shouldn't it have been purple or something? I guesss I can understand that they're the three prime colours and all but... but still? Green is a colour meant to represent life and nature while Syntheis involves Synthesising life to be less organic. Green doesn't make that much sense.

I think they chose green because it was another friendly color like blue. And the godchild explains that synthesis is the only way that there will be no more war between synthetics and organics so maybe that has something to do with green meaning life. Just speculating.

[GBGriffin]

Golferguy758 wrote...

While many people do post a lot of information to fit the theory, when it's clearly not (i.e. kid's sweatshirt being the eyes of Harbinger. lolwat?) I do question why you seem so adamant against it though? Unless it's due to people spouting it off as fact when it clearly isn't fact( ID theory).

If you are so adamant against it because of how people present it, I don't blame you, but statements like that aren't very helpful to discussion, or, well, anything really.

It's the former. People present it in such an absurd way, argung that it is factual then claiming it isn't to save face.\\

It's just a pointless discussion to have in the first place, so why not indulge my masochistic tendencies once in a while and join in the fray?

[Big Bad]

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Shepard wakes up.  That isn't speculation.  It's what happened.

[n00bsauce2010]

GBGriffin wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Sorry bud but I simply refuse to believe the alliance soldiers would help up an injured civillian.. but not a little boy. He isn't real..

You know what else isn't real?

Alliance soldiers.

Are you just upset because you can't present any logical arguments other than simply stating the obvious notion that speculation is speculation. Yeah thanks sir. I think we understand.

[GBGriffin]

Big Bad wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Shepard wakes up.  That isn't speculation.  It's what happened.

Yep. That much happened. The speculation bit is the meaning that people attach to it. People claim its indoctrination; I claim it's an easter egg to reward players for their effort and not fully commit to Shepard being dead. 

For some reason, my explanation makes less sense.

[n00bsauce2010]

Legion12Centurion wrote...

Around 6,18-,619 he is the marine standing against the wall in the ship:P Can someone confirm this I am 98%it is him

It's too hard to tell. He's definitely wearing a black suit. But unless you're on a nice tv with your eyes up against the screen there is no way to tell for sure.

[balance5050]

GBGriffin wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Sorry bud but I simply refuse to believe the alliance soldiers would help up an injured civillian.. but not a little boy. He isn't real..

You know what else isn't real?

Alliance soldiers.

Wow bro... now you're just trolling. This is a place for people who actually like videogames.

[ky0dar]

DTKT wrote...

So, are you guys ignoring the Final Hours app and the supposed post by Patrick Weekes?

If information is required that isn't in the main game, then that is poor design. I at least understood that Kai Leng was a bad guy (which is apparently expanded in the books) and that Anderson had a history with Saren (apparently also in the books). But if there is something out there that openyl explains the ending and is not included in the game, that's poor design. This is precisely the argument against DLC explaining the ending.

[Big Bad]

GBGriffin wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Shepard wakes up.  That isn't speculation.  It's what happened.

Yep. That much happened. The speculation bit is the meaning that people attach to it. People claim its indoctrination; I claim it's an easter egg to reward players for their effort and not fully commit to Shepard being dead. 

For some reason, my explanation makes less sense.

So where exactly is he waking up?  And how is he doing so if he's dead?

Modifié par Big Bad, 02 avril 2012 - 03:17 .

[CLB17]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

Legion12Centurion wrote...

Around 6,18-,619 he is the marine standing against the wall in the ship:P Can someone confirm this I am 98%it is him

It's too hard to tell. He's definitely wearing a black suit. But unless you're on a nice tv with your eyes up against the screen there is no way to tell for sure.

What are you guys talking about? Who's that suppose to be?

[Golferguy758]

GBGriffin wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

While many people do post a lot of information to fit the theory, when it's clearly not (i.e. kid's sweatshirt being the eyes of Harbinger. lolwat?) I do question why you seem so adamant against it though? Unless it's due to people spouting it off as fact when it clearly isn't fact( ID theory).

If you are so adamant against it because of how people present it, I don't blame you, but statements like that aren't very helpful to discussion, or, well, anything really.

It's the former. People present it in such an absurd way, argung that it is factual then claiming it isn't to save face.

It's just a pointless discussion to have in the first place, so why not indulge my masochistic tendencies once in a while and join in the fray?

Makes sense. 

As for pointless, though. What else could the effort be better spent on? Sending more cupcakes to Bioware? Making topic #83746538 on how much the endings suck? Some pointless flame topic about how Bioware/EA are evil incarnate?

At least this topic present a chance for hope for the game. Assumign people don't bring in just off the wall pieces of information to try and prove it. I, as well as most of the reasonable people here, know that nothign is a fact until Biwoare confirms it. just as it's not untrue until they deny it.

Just whining about everything else is just wasted effort. But, hey, to each their own I suppose.

[ROTTOK Crapgame]

Legion12Centurion wrote...

Around 6,18-,619 he is the marine standing against the wall in the ship:P Can someone confirm this I am 98%it is him

Sorry mate, I see Alliance Marines, not very detailed ones, but Marines non the less, worth a shout though.

[GBGriffin]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...



Are you just upset because you can't present any logical arguments other than simply stating the obvious notion that speculation is speculation. Yeah thanks sir. I think we understand.

Your denial is amusing.

To clarify my post:

Alliance soldiers are not real. Since they are not real, they do not have a "real" code of conduct to compare their actions to. Their movements and actions are scripted according to a designer, who knows the intention you are trying so hard to comprehend.

Anyways, you'll ignore any argument I present because it doesn't fit your precious theory, and that's how the theory works: incorporate what supports it and rejects what counters it. Seriously, I can't present any of the arguments I have because you can easily dismiss them as "it's indoctrination". 

Congrats. You found a theory that can't be proven false without a word from the people who created the source material. That isn't a good thing, fyi.

[clone002]

i really do hope the indoctrination theory is true

[GBGriffin]

balance5050 wrote...

Wow bro... now you're just trolling. This is a place for people who actually like videogames.

Sorry, should have clarified my post earlier. You're right, that was rather trollish.

Big Bad wrote...



So where exactly is he waking up? And how is he doing so if he's dead?

Only BioWare knows that right now. The rest is speculation. That will hopefully be something they will clarify.

[3Minotaur3]

Rifneno wrote...

3Minotaur3 wrote...

When the kid approach it, he's close to the rear left reactor, meaning nobody inside said shuttle can see him. Except the soldiers outside it, whose job is to secure a perimeter around the shuttle. When he try to enter the shuttle, again he choose to climb on a corner of the door, where we see only legs pointing in all directions, except in his direction. That could explain why nobody inside saw him fast enough to lend him a hand.

Not true. You can only see legs, but since feet only point toward the front we do know for certain that at the very least the soldier near the door could've seen him. The one who only had to bend down and grab him by the jacket and pull him up while he struggles to get in.

Also, why wait for the kid before closing the shuttle door? It's someone inside the shuttle (the pilot?) that can close the doors, not the soldiers outside. That means someone inside see the kid then tells the pilot to close the door, or one of the soldiers outside communicate with the pilot to close the door. Maybe the soldier banging the door with is fist, maybe not. And nothing can be heard because it was a zoomed point of view from Shepard...

Apparently assumptions are only okay when you're the one doing them.

I can hardly say the building is destroyed, only damaged.

You need glasses. Get someone else to drive you to Lenscrafters though, because wow.

As for the sound in the duct, why the kid would make a vent sound in the first place, if he's an hallucination?

I think I'm getting a migraine...

Lots of games make the vent mistake. Remember Half-life or Deus Ex? All duct conduits are cleans and soundless. In reality (for working at the maintenance of some ventilation systems) Duct are always dirty and you can't touch them without making a metallic sound.

Haven't played Half-Life and I haven't played Deus Ex since Voodoo cards were "teh w1n". So no. But regardless, since we're bringing in other games made by other companies in other eras, I submit that this is obviously a dream because Super Mario Brothers 2 was.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

But lets assume ME3 duct technology has improves alot. The kid probably doesn't make any sound walking normally in it. After all, he doesn't make any sound when talking to Shepard. He was probably frighten by the presence of Shepard and Anderson, make a sudden move (backward, for example) and hit hard the vent back to him. After Shepard was distracted by Anderson, he just goes the other way normally, inside the improved, soundless vent...

Yeah, we're the ones grasping at straws. But man, that duct technology sure has advanced since there's an electricity warning on that vent.

You can't save me... Who know what happens in a kid head at that age. He don't know Shepard and he probably saw those huge squids-like monsters destroying everything. How can Shepard can protect him? We know nothing of this kid to assume why he reacted that way...

People who could make an assumption about that: anyone who has ever met any kid ever. Children scream and cry, not make foreboding comments seemingly designed to cut away at the resolve of their would-be rescuers.

As for how the kid managed to get from point A to point B that fast, etc... It's not the first time in gaming, writing or movie making that a caracter seems to appears out of nowhere. A killer that was behind the victim suddenly appears in front of him. Someone unconscious wake up at the right moment to turn the tide, etc... Bioware Writers decided the kid was an important part of the story, and decided he should be seens often, and the how it got from A to B was secondary for the story...

Oh good, we're back to using examples of the completely unrelated. And we've stopped even restricting outselves to video games, now we're into horror movies! How quaint, and completely relevant. They should've included a scene where Shepard destroys the Reapers with a bunch of rockets with "Acme" on them. Since the coyote does it, surely it must apply here!

You're so indoctrinated by the indoctrination theory, that anybody that don't agree is committing a Heresy, I see...

I hope EA/Bioware would choose not to pursue the indoctrination, just to see your dissapointment...

And if they do choose the indoctrination way, I hope they'd make it more obvious in game, and fill all plot holes so this pointless speculation would be useless...  

[n00bsauce2010]

GBGriffin wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Shepard wakes up.  That isn't speculation.  It's what happened.

Yep. That much happened. The speculation bit is the meaning that people attach to it. People claim its indoctrination; I claim it's an easter egg to reward players for their effort and not fully commit to Shepard being dead. 

For some reason, my explanation makes less sense.

That's because an easter egg is hard to find. All it takes to get the breath scene is to have over 5,000 military strength. Anyone can do it.
But an easter egg, like mordin singing (which I have yet to see on any of my playthroughs), the space hamster chase, Tali and Garrus kissing, Jack as a phantom. Those are easter eggs, pretty easy to miss unless you're observant.

The breath scene is not an easter egg.

[GBGriffin]

ConVito wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Why are you in this thread? You're not adding anything to the discussions, you're simply rejecting all the ideas everyone has and saying we're stupid for thinking any of this means anything. Please go away.

You know pro-IT people do the same in other ending threads, right?

But, fair enough. Just do some stretches before returning to the mental gymnastics.

[Big Bad]

GBGriffin wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...



Are you just upset because you can't present any logical arguments other than simply stating the obvious notion that speculation is speculation. Yeah thanks sir. I think we understand.

Your denial is amusing.

To clarify my post:

Alliance soldiers are not real. Since they are not real, they do not have a "real" code of conduct to compare their actions to. Their movements and actions are scripted according to a designer, who knows the intention you are trying so hard to comprehend.

Anyways, you'll ignore any argument I present because it doesn't fit your precious theory, and that's how the theory works: incorporate what supports it and rejects what counters it. Seriously, I can't present any of the arguments I have because you can easily dismiss them as "it's indoctrination". 

Congrats. You found a theory that can't be proven false without a word from the people who created the source material. That isn't a good thing, fyi.

I'm not sure why you're so adamant abou this particular point.  The boy not being real isn't important to IDT.  If it were true, then I think that's pretty cool, but it certainly isn't a requirement for IDT.

[balance5050]

ConVito wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Why are you in this thread? You're not adding anything to the discussions, you're simply rejecting all the ideas everyone has and saying we're stupid for thinking any of this means anything. Please go away.

I think it's cause he likes us. This is his way of making friends. Essentially, it's a cry for help.

[Macross]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Indeed, but some proof is better then others (Shepard wakes up)

By what standard, exactly? What makes one bit of pure speculation better than another bit of pure speculation?

Shepard wakes up.  That isn't speculation.  It's what happened.

Yep. That much happened. The speculation bit is the meaning that people attach to it. People claim its indoctrination; I claim it's an easter egg to reward players for their effort and not fully commit to Shepard being dead. 

For some reason, my explanation makes less sense.

That's because an easter egg is hard to find. All it takes to get the breath scene is to have over 5,000 military strength. Anyone can do it.
But an easter egg, like mordin singing (which I have yet to see on any of my playthroughs), the space hamster chase, Tali and Garrus kissing, Jack as a phantom. Those are easter eggs, pretty easy to miss unless you're observant.

The breath scene is not an easter egg.

Just like the point out the an easter egg is usally not called the true or best ending. And easter egg after the end is kind of like the Dog thing from Silent hill. This is more of a... 'Hey look at what you accomplimished. Let's hint at more for you achievement"

[Jadebaby]

Hacedor1566 wrote...

I think someone posted this already, but... This should be remembered.

April 6. PAX.

Bioware Representative: So, we close this issue by clarifying that the end is maintained, and there will be no change. We apologize if anyone has bothered, but remember, the important thing is the journey, not the end. Now, Any Questions? Yes, you, go ahead.

I thought you were quoting a dev and my heart started to sink! lol

[Rob Psyence]

I swear to god I am getting really tired of the same trolls popping their head in to poke the hornet's nest with a stick every ten pages.