57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

I had the same 'abrupt' vibe. Compared to ME2 at least... I looked at my Galaxy Map , and was like, "Oh, $#!t... Heading to earth already?!"

Yeah, before the Cerberus HQ mission I was like "ok I guess half of the game is over now" and then Hackett was all like "oh when you do this mission there's no turning back *hint hint*" and I was like "...  but I don't want it to end yet..."

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

I had the same 'abrupt' vibe. Compared to ME2 at least... I looked at my Galaxy Map , and was like, "Oh, $#!t... Heading to earth already?!"

Yeah, before the Cerberus HQ mission I was like "ok I guess half of the game is over now" and then Hackett was all like "oh when you do this mission there's no turning back *hint hint*" and I was like "...  but I don't want it to end yet..."

Checking:

I had the same feeling (that I had in ME2 when the only thing left was the Reaper IFF) , then after you had Legion's LM and then off to Sucide Mission.

Checking out:Back to bed 

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 02 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[Distilled Poison]

Are people around here still answering Indoctrination Theory questions? I personally love this theory and all the thought put into it, but I do have a couple questions. Forgive me if these were addressed and I simply missed them.

1- How much of what happens at the end is a hallucination? It seems to start after he regains consciousness after being hit by the Reaper doom lazer, judging by the trees and shrubs from his dreams. If that's so, did he actually ever get on the Citadel?

If so, I'm assuming only parts of what he saw were hallucinations, ie., the bodies, Anderson, TIM., etc. If he was actually on the Citadel, why did they bring him up to meet the Catalyst? Couldn't they have left him for dead?

If they were trying to indoctrinate him further, why spell out how to destroy the Reapers, at the very least, without a SHTF plan to stop him should the indoctrination fail?

If the entire Citadel incident was a hallucination, the 5,000+ EMS Destroy ending would have him waking up right where he was lazor'd?

[Spiderman_2028]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

I had the same 'abrupt' vibe. Compared to ME2 at least... I looked at my Galaxy Map , and was like, "Oh, $#!t... Heading to earth already?!"

Yeah, before the Cerberus HQ mission I was like "ok I guess half of the game is over now" and then Hackett was all like "oh when you do this mission there's no turning back *hint hint*" and I was like "...  but I don't want it to end yet..."

I said it earlier in the thread, but I was disappointed I didn't get more time with my LI from ME2 (Jack). All I get is a lousy Vidcall?! Not cool. I'd rather have had Ash killed on Mars and been able to have Jack as a Squad mate...

[Dendio1]

Distilled Poison wrote...

Are people around here still answering Indoctrination Theory questions? I personally love this theory and all the thought put into it, but I do have a couple questions. Forgive me if these were addressed and I simply missed them.

1- How much of what happens at the end is a hallucination? It seems to start after he regains consciousness after being hit by the Reaper doom lazer, judging by the trees and shrubs from his dreams. If that's so, did he actually ever get on the Citadel?

If so, I'm assuming only parts of what he saw were hallucinations, ie., the bodies, Anderson, TIM., etc. If he was actually on the Citadel, why did they bring him up to meet the Catalyst? Couldn't they have left him for dead?

If they were trying to indoctrinate him further, why spell out how to destroy the Reapers, at the very least, without a SHTF plan to stop him should the indoctrination fail?

If the entire Citadel incident was a hallucination, the 5,000+ EMS Destroy ending would have him waking up right where he was lazor'd?

1-no never got to the citadel
wakes up under rubble lazored. Wind confirms its on earth. Reaper growl heard from resisting indoctrination attempt. It sounds like bending metal..its a reaper growl.

[Distilled Poison]

Edit- Yeah, thanks Den. After typing that all out, I realized I how silly partial hallucination sounded. =P

Modifié par Distilled Poison, 02 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Distilled Poison wrote...

Are people around here still answering Indoctrination Theory questions? I personally love this theory and all the thought put into it, but I do have a couple questions. Forgive me if these were addressed and I simply missed them.

1- How much of what happens at the end is a hallucination? It seems to start after he regains consciousness after being hit by the Reaper doom lazer, judging by the trees and shrubs from his dreams. If that's so, did he actually ever get on the Citadel? This I think is the problem with it

If so, I'm assuming only parts of what he saw were hallucinations, ie., the bodies, Anderson, TIM., etc. If he was actually on the Citadel, why did they bring him up to meet the Catalyst? Couldn't they have left him for dead?

Same as the above

If they were trying to indoctrinate him further, why spell out how to destroy the Reapers, at the very least, without a SHTF plan to stop him should the indoctrination fail? Could be that destroy represents Shepard's answer and not so much the Reapers/god child.

If the entire Citadel incident was a hallucination, the 5,000+ EMS Destroy ending would have him waking up right where he was lazor'd?

Hopefully!

Now back to bed

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 02 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[Crasher027]

Distilled Poison wrote...

Are people around here still answering Indoctrination Theory questions? I personally love this theory and all the thought put into it, but I do have a couple questions. Forgive me if these were addressed and I simply missed them.

1- How much of what happens at the end is a hallucination? It seems to start after he regains consciousness after being hit by the Reaper doom lazer, judging by the trees and shrubs from his dreams. If that's so, did he actually ever get on the Citadel?

If so, I'm assuming only parts of what he saw were hallucinations, ie., the bodies, Anderson, TIM., etc. If he was actually on the Citadel, why did they bring him up to meet the Catalyst? Couldn't they have left him for dead?

If they were trying to indoctrinate him further, why spell out how to destroy the Reapers, at the very least, without a SHTF plan to stop him should the indoctrination fail?

If the entire Citadel incident was a hallucination, the 5,000+ EMS Destroy ending would have him waking up right where he was lazor'd?

 First, yes the common consensus on the indoctrination theory is that everything after Harbinger layzor is hallucinated. The final three choices can be explained in any number of ways, they represent Shepards mind afterall, it's not like Harbinger is litterally building that stuff in Shepards mind. Destruction could just as easily represent his own brain creating the way out, the very thing Shepard has been trying to do since the start. While the other two options are what's been historically represented as alternatives throughout the games. (Blue= Illusive Man, Green = Saren). 

And finally, because Shepard beat the indoctrination, from there, who knows? An epic standoff/conversation between Shepard and Harbinger ala; 

[LostLogics]

Big Bad wrote...

One more speculation-free fact, then it's bedtime:

A pretty big deal is made about upgrading the Eezo core in Engineering so all of the engineers don't get killed, and then it is promptly dropped and never brought back up again.

(Now i'm speculating)

To me that just seems like a pretty good example of Chehkov's Gun that doesn't go anywhere

Oh, one more fact:

- Vega complains about the humming on the Normandy, and humming is known to be one indication of the presence of Reaper tech. The last time a character mentioned something like this, it was Kaidan on the citadel and it turned out to be Reaper tech.

Regarding the upgrade of the plasma conducting something something in Engineering, it leads to a war asset for the Crucible if I'm not mistaken that improves eezo in big eezo cores or something.

What really bugs me is the mech dog that is scanning everything... I don't trust it!

[LotharArmoran]

Distilled Poison wrote...

Are people around here still answering Indoctrination Theory questions? I personally love this theory and all the thought put into it, but I do have a couple questions. Forgive me if these were addressed and I simply missed them.

1- How much of what happens at the end is a hallucination? It seems to start after he regains consciousness after being hit by the Reaper doom lazer, judging by the trees and shrubs from his dreams. If that's so, did he actually ever get on the Citadel?

I played that bit again recently and you can clearly see trees before the laser hits. I am almost completely sold on indoctrination however then why bother showing the scenes where the crucible connects to the citadel? This happens after you shoot the Illusive Man.

[Dendio1]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

I had the same 'abrupt' vibe. Compared to ME2 at least... I looked at my Galaxy Map , and was like, "Oh, $#!t... Heading to earth already?!"

Yeah, before the Cerberus HQ mission I was like "ok I guess half of the game is over now" and then Hackett was all like "oh when you do this mission there's no turning back *hint hint*" and I was like "...  but I don't want it to end yet..."

I said it earlier in the thread, but I was disappointed I didn't get more time with my LI from ME2 (Jack). All I get is a lousy Vidcall?! Not cool. I'd rather have had Ash killed on Mars and been able to have Jack as a Squad mate...

they did a good job with jack and miranda and mordin and thane. Jacob, zaeed, and grunt got next to no time at all. Kasumi had a nice mission..but i wanted her  as a\\ regular aboard the normandy..loves me some kasumi

Modifié par Dendio1, 02 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[Spiderman_2028]

Distilled Poison wrote...

1- How much of what happens at the end is a hallucination? It seems to start after he regains consciousness after being hit by the Reaper doom lazer, judging by the trees and shrubs from his dreams. If that's so, did he actually ever get on the Citadel?

As I interpret it, everything from the beam onwards is in Shep's head- until he wakes up. He never meets Marauder Shields, never encounters TIM and Anderson, never meets the star-child, doesn't stop the Reapers, the mass relays aren't destroyed and the Normandy doesn't crash. It's all in his mind.

Distilled Poison wrote..

If the entire Citadel incident was a hallucination, the 5,000+ EMS Destroy ending would have him waking up right where he was lazor'd?

Or nearby. Personally I think the blast would send him rag-doll flying away from the beam. It hits the ground in front of him so the shockwave picks him off his feet and tosses him away. No evidence that happens though- just an educated guess based on a bunch of action movie "Kaboom" moments

[Spiderman_2028]

Dendio1 wrote....

they did a good job with jack and miranda and mordin and thane. Jacob, zaeed, and grunt got next to no time at all. Kasumi had a nice mission..but i wanted her  as a regular aboard the normandy..loves me some kasumi

My Kasumi mission was bugged... Didn't get to complete it before I went back for Priority: Citadel. Hope that gets fixed via patch or something.... Grr....

[Distilled Poison]

Lol thanks for the responses, guys. By the time I finished typing that last bit of my post I felt that I had answered my own questions just by logical inference. Thought about hitting Ctrl+A+Backspace, but I still wanted to get some input.

[Spiderman_2028]

Edits: I suck at driving my iPad...

Random thought: the whole Day-One DLC drama kicked into high gear when game assets were found relating to it on/in the standard game (if I remember correctly).

Has anyone had a dig through x-box/PS3 files to see if there are any additional assets for Earth that weren't seen/used during the missions?

Not wanting to beat a dead horse or anything, but the size/install size difference has been bugging me. There are lots of valid, rational explanations around why that size disparity is there... Just thought if the ending DLC was a part of the plan, there might be something in-game already to align with it.

If there is nothing in there, then it's possible the plan for the endings is what we got and that's it.

I realize the point will be made that if something akin to an IT-mind- rape was planned then the assets would be well hidden... Or that a lack of proof is not proof of lack... But Bioware stated emphatically they have DLC assets in the main game pre-release all the time... If they don't have any related to ME3's finale... Well...?

Guess this is my Devils Advocate post... Lol

Modifié par Spiderman_2028, 02 avril 2012 - 08:34 .

[ZajoE38]

So the ME3 ended as Shep is hit by Harby's beam. And everything after didn't happen. In the apex of the biggest war in galaxy, Shepard just leaves reality. And we have no furhther info how it all ended. This leaves extremely opened ending. You think BW can be that bad? Something doesn't feel right.

[Skillz1986]

Hi again, since i don't have anything better to do...and actually managed to inflict the pains of the me3 endings on myself for the third time now, i thought it might be a good idea to watch all the trailers posted on masseffect.com and search for clues there...you know to find unseen footage, hints and so on.

Might be nothing but i don't remember those turians running away from an explosion (near the end of the vid). Only scene i could asociate it with, would be the fight against the destroyer on earth...but the surrounding kind of doesn't fit

please correct me if i'm wrong.

http://masseffect.co...ea6003412797422

[RussiaTerminator]

LiarasShield wrote...

This was a fan made ending I wonder what fellow liara fans think

:crying::crying::crying:

[Rifneno]

Apologies for wall of text. Lots I wanted to reply to after I woke up. Scary part is, this is the trimmed down version!

[quote]n00bsauce2010 wrote...

It's an app that anti idt people take as canon. Saying the ending at face value is canon due to what the app states.
The supposed ending they cut was an actual indoctrination sequence where sheperd loses control and is fully indoctrinated by harbinger.. but they couldn't figure out how to make it work and implement dialogue choices inside of it.

The fact that they considered indoctrination makes it much more likely. Just because they scrapped the mechanic does not mean they scrapped the idea. It's basic human instinct to find new ways to make something work. That's what has allowed us to thrive the last few hundred years. I think Bioware are more than capable of displaying this instinct.

[/quote]

Don't forget the "Matrix ending" reference. Blue pill = keep living in fantasy land, red pill = wake up. You know, nothing like our current endings. Except for the whole "picking red means you wake up" part. ...

[quote]GBGriffin wrote...

Yep. That much happened. The speculation bit is the meaning that people attach to it. People claim its indoctrination; I claim it's an easter egg to reward players for their effort and not fully commit to Shepard being dead.

For some reason, my explanation makes less sense.

[/quote]

Probably because it's a hand full of nonsense you grabbed when trying to reach a straw. You're claiming that the wake up scene doesn't mean anything. The burden of proof is on you to back that up.

[quote]Admittingly, I can always count on you folks for a good laugh. It's worth it to pop in every now and again for that.[/quote]

Try popping your heatsink instead. It's better stress relief.

[quote]balance5050 wrote...

[quote]n00bsauce2010 wrote...

This guy sounds like a child.

"Wahhhh, ID theorists do it in our threads, So I'm gonna do it too" - the logic of an 8 year old.[/quote]

The logic of the starchild "Yo dawg, I heard you don't like trolls in your thread"[/quote]

That was so awesome I think we should spend 5 minutes doctoring a stock photo, say it's Tali, and give it to you as a prize. 10/10.

[quote]Golferguy758 wrote...
always get sad when I'm ignored. Oh well.

[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback! What else did you like about ME3?

[quote]Derp88 wrote...

I'm sorry but some people in this thread are being very hypocritical. You advocate the exercise of civil discussion, then just outright insult anyone (usually with sarcasm) who comes in here and expresses their opinion and (sometimes) valid reasons on why they think the theory is weak.[/quote]

If the burning sensation in my ears doesn't mean I need another tube of that weird smelling cream, I'm only snarky to people that are either already acting that way or are passing off their opinion as fact and expecting others to take it as such. If we had some logical IT opponents that wanted to debate things using reason, that'd be awesome. Unfortunately, it's harder to find such a person here than a virgin in Caligula's palace.

[quote]n00bsauce2010 wrote...

[quote]DuskRose wrote...

So, I've got a quick question to get us back on topic: How do you think indoctrination actually takes place? Like the mechanics of it? I think answering that question helps pave the way for stronger support for IT.[/quote]

I would think when TIM brings back sheperd and puts tech inside of him.

[/quote]

This is my theory as well. It's a mandatory event, provides Shepard prolonged exposure to Reaper tech, and we never did get answers as to how Shepard was brought back. Miranda talks about black boxes, the video logs on Cronos Station further drill home that it was pretty much impossible, and did anyone else notice that line from Anderson when talking about Kai Leng? About how much Cerberus has improved him? He says to Shepard, "After what they did with you and Grayson" he doesn't rule anything out. Shepard, Grayson, and Leng. Two of them are confirmed rebuilt with Reaper tech, the other is rebuilt with something TIM was hiding and we still don't know what. If the signs were any brighter, they'd stand out on the Vegas strip.

[quote]byne wrote...

To be fair, TIM didnt bring back Shepard, Miranda did, and I'm sure if there was any Reaper tech inserted, she'd know about it, and would have told us.[/quote]

Didn't talk to her much in ME3? I can't blame you, I got sick of her "come help!" "Ok, I'm here, what do you need?" "It's okay, I'll do it myself." calls after the 75th time too. But anyway, she specifically complains about having to work with so many black boxes on the Lazarus Project. What, besides Reaper tech, would TIM have a reason to black box from her? Seriously, I can't think of any other reason.

[quote]Plus, if arguing could get this thread locked, I figure it'd have happened by now. Its not like this is the first time anyone has argued in the thread.[/quote]

Them's fightin' words!

[quote]lex0r11 wrote...

What's with all the hate in this thread? Where did the love go?

You guys are making David cry.
[/quote]

On a more serious note, I didn't expect to see David in ME3. But wow, his scene was one of the most memorable of the series. "I've been counting." "Anything in particular?" "The number of days you lengthened my life." I just melted at that. That poor kid.

[quote]GBGriffin wrote...

That's a fair enough point, and one that I will indulge.

It is logical to assume that the ending was rushed and that, while true indoctrination may have been on the table at some point, it was scrapped along with the mechanic. This theory would support leaving in evidence that they simply didn't want to redo for time or financial constraints.

Or is that not logical?

[/quote]

That's about the only logical basis for everything I think has much validity to it. However I don't see why one would think it was scrapped yet they left so many easily removable clues in. The only thing indicating it was scrapped was the Final Hours apps and even that only says the ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL portion was scrapped rather than the whole idea. Also remember that anyone in Bioware who knew about IT, if it is true, would almost certainly be under an NDA and not legally allowed to let the cat out of the bag.

[quote]GBGriffin wrote...

Well, to be fair, that is more suggesting an idea rather than implementing it. To me, that information sets the groundwork for a mechanic, which they scrapped. It has to be there for that mechanic to even make sense.

If they scrap the mechanic (i.e. if they planned on it, but then dropped it at the end), then they can't exactly go back and undo everything. They have to leave what's in the game as is and end it as such, without their mechanic being implemented.

[/quote]

On the contrary, it makes less sense for an indoctrination twist to end up with us totally losing control of Shepard. Remember Saren's studies on indoctrination. The more control the Reapers exert toward the subject, the less capable the subject becomes. They want Shepard specifically because of how incredibly capable he is. If they assume direct control on him, they lose the very thing they're after in him. Better to subtly coerce and trick him.
As for undoing everything, some parts are integral to the game yes. But so many others could be removed easily and quickly. Like the buzzing and ringing noises that Shepard hears, the oily shadow effect on the edges of the screen in dreams & at the "Citadel", many suspicious remarks by NPCs, ect.

[quote]protognosis wrote...

Couldn't the level of Indoctrination be greater once the Prothean VI meets Shepard a second time, hence the "my security is gone so you can haz the deets" line?

Does it take awhile for the VI to warm up its indoctrination detectors?

[/quote]

If you question it further, it tells you that it's not allowed to reveal the identity of the catalyst before it confirms that the crucible is complete and ready to go. That's why it mentions security protocols being down, because it's telling you something it's not allowed to.

[quote]ynh wrote...

My two cents is, unless the DLC somehow makes these hints more apparent, IDT is unfortunately a theory at best. Indoctrination did not even cross my mind when I finished the game. It was only after I saw this thread and re-played it that I saw the hints everyone is pointing out.

[/quote]

Naturally, but that just means they did a good job at keeping it noticable yet subtle. Which if you've ever done any fiction writing, believe me, is harder than it sounds. Remember the Sixth Sense?

[quote]byne wrote...

Even if you didnt agree, its canon that Shep is more stressed than ever near the end, so there wouldnt be much you could do about it

[/quote]

Which is very telling in and of itself. We almost always get to control Shepard's attitude. Renegade Shepard is pretty much always "People die, it happens. Now take your balls out of your purse and get over it." Yet this one time, both paragon and renegade Shepard are keeping their balls locked in their purses. He even snaps at Joker for making a joke to lighten the mood. After Joker clarifies that his family is still unaccounted for and he understands perfectly how serious things are, instead of remembering what the asari in counseling at the hospital said and going "Their names were what and they lived where? Oh Jesus... I'm sorry Joker...", even paragon Shepard stomps off to the captain's quarters to read some Twilight and cut himself.

[quote]DuskRose wrote...

I remember someone mentioning in a tweet/ article that they weren't rushed at the end.

[/quote]

Maybe, but to be fair they also said that about Terriblegame Age 2.

[quote]CLB17 wrote...

I don't think so either unless... the starchild is shepard. The indoctrinated part of himself that is sympathetic towards the reapers. Might explain why he has both maleshep and femshep's voice. Wild speculation but i'm throwing it out there.

[/quote]

Maybe the reason they took nudity out was because Shepard is actually a hermaphrodite.

[quote]byne wrote...

To be fair, basically all MMOs are doomed to failure. WoW crushes all of them. Every single time.

[/quote]

Pfft. Everquest is still up and running. It just celebrated its 13th anniversary. MMORPGs are like herpes.

[quote]kilgorek wrote...

It's true, but it's just a coincidence.

[/quote]

While I believe it's a coincidence too, we shouldn't state it to be fact.

[quote]CLB17 wrote...

[quote]byne wrote...

[quote]balance5050 wrote...

Plus she just uses that Kelncory planet as a basis. The whole planet is centered around an eccentric Volus who has *visions* of being"s" (plural) of light. It never said he found any such temples containing such a thing. If anything the "beings of light" would be referring to Prothean VI's. But it was all based on *visions* so it actually is pointing even more to the I.T.
[/quote]

Plus, Klencory's description says the beings of light were there to protect organics from synthetic machine devils.

That seems to run counter to godchild controlling the synthetic machine devils to exterminate all advanced organics

[/quote]

And i don't think beings of light is a good description of the reapers. machine devils is a perfect description though.

[/quote]

No, but it's how a Reaper indoctrination attempt like godchild would describe them. Remember that said volus was Sovereign's tool before Saren according to the books.

[quote]Yea, I was wondering about this too. I went back to the Citadel after this convo, and couldn't find an Eezo core upgrade at any of the shops. Can you even buy the damn thing?[/quote]

Yes, it's for sale in the spectre office shop. You need to pardon the two engineers from ME2 and get them aboard before you can buy it. After you do, you eventually get a dialogue from them that ends with a reputation increase and a war asset.

[quote]Dendio1 wrote...

they did a good job with jack and miranda and mordin and thane. Jacob, zaeed, and grunt got next to no time at all. Kasumi had a nice mission..but i wanted her as a regular aboard the normandy..loves me some kasumi
[/quote]

Legion never being a usable group member made me want to punt babies.

[Spiderman_2028]

Rifneno - re: stock photo

There is a credit for Getty Images in the game. Made me giggle.

[S Atomeha]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Rifneno - re: stock photo

There is a credit for Getty Images in the game. Made me giggle.

that seems lazy..
(just posting something to find thread later )

[n00bsauce2010]

Hey guys thanks for backing me up lat night lol.

@rifneno- that GBG guy was on my case the whole night. Wouldn't give up his idea that everything that wasn't his opinion was speculation.

[Byakuren2009]

Hi all Any News? Or some clues?

[Spiderman_2028]

Byakuren2009 wrote...

Hi all Any News? Or some clues?

I still think the Space Hamster = Harbinger.

[Rifneno]

Spiderman_2028 wrote...

Byakuren2009 wrote...

Hi all Any News? Or some clues?

I still think the Space Hamster = Harbinger.

...  Well, Minsc was as tough as a Reaper and he made as much sense as starchild.  It could work.