57139 réponses à ce sujet

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...





Ok I'll be specific. How does shepard and freinds walk out of a room without helmets, where Sovereigns leg puches through, exposing him to the same vacuum of space he was protecting himself of a few minutes earlier?

It wasn't important then, but somehow it's monumental now?



The thing is in ME1 you din't hear whispers or swirling clouds and other things.


1) That doesn't address the issue

2) You didn't hear whispers in the decision chamber. You'd think if the theory were correct you'd hear whispering at different intensities depending on your choice.




[qoute]
Lost wrote:
By this point Shepard is deep in his mind where the reapers want him.This is where they can gain the upper hand and trick him into to submitting , for him it's a last ditch effort to save himself and wake from the nightmare.Shepard at this level doesn't even know what he should do at this point , it's left up to the player to help Shepard make the right descision because your his last hope here. 
[/qoute]

well I would expect the living areas of the citdel to have some kind of contengiancy plan for a hull rupture (maybe mass effect field kicked in), whereas on me3 its an unknown part of the citadel, and doesnt need protecting

 

I commented on this issue a few pages back. 

The thing is, that Mass Effect fields are activated once a hull breach occurs to prevent the oxygen frombeing sucked out. Look at the codex entry for Mass-accelerator weapons. It states, that if a weapon is fired at a too high velocity, it would just fly straight through a ship, causing minimal damage, eventhough the oxygen still should be sucked out, right?
No. Mass effect fields are activated to keep the oxygen from being sucked out!

Same goes with the hangar at cronos station. If you look behind yourself, you can see that mass effect fields have been activated to prevent the loss of oxygen.
If mass effect fields can't contain oxygen within a certain space, then Cerberus wouldn't even need to vent the hangar!

The Citadel's life support was malfunctioning and loss of life were being reported. How are we so sure that the fields would kick in in the event of catastrophic failure?

Wait, are we talking about ME1 or ME3 here?

In ME3 they obviously wouldn't activate, since the citadel is blown up.

Which would mean Shepard should have been dead the minute he stepped foot on there and yet no problems at all with Anderson somehow beating him to a console .

[Big G13]

[quote]estebanus wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...





Ok I'll be specific. How does shepard and freinds walk out of a room without helmets, where Sovereigns leg puches through, exposing him to the same vacuum of space he was protecting himself of a few minutes earlier?

It wasn't important then, but somehow it's monumental now?



The thing is in ME1 you din't hear whispers or swirling clouds and other things.


1) That doesn't address the issue

2) You didn't hear whispers in the decision chamber. You'd think if the theory were correct you'd hear whispering at different intensities depending on your choice.




[qoute]
Lost wrote:
By this point Shepard is deep in his mind where the reapers want him.This is where they can gain the upper hand and trick him into to submitting , for him it's a last ditch effort to save himself and wake from the nightmare.Shepard at this level doesn't even know what he should do at this point , it's left up to the player to help Shepard make the right descision because your his last hope here. 
[/qoute]

[/quote]


well I would expect the living areas of the citdel to have some kind of contengiancy plan for a hull rupture (maybe mass effect field kicked in), whereas on me3 its an unknown part of the citadel, and doesnt need protecting[/quote] 

I commented on this issue a few pages back. 

The thing is, that Mass Effect fields are activated once a hull breach occurs to prevent the oxygen frombeing sucked out. Look at the codex entry for Mass-accelerator weapons. It states, that if a weapon is fired at a too high velocity, it would just fly straight through a ship, causing minimal damage, eventhough the oxygen still should be sucked out, right?
No. Mass effect fields are activated to keep the oxygen from being sucked out!

Same goes with the hangar at cronos station. If you look behind yourself, you can see that mass effect fields have been activated to prevent the loss of oxygen.
If mass effect fields can't contain oxygen within a certain space, then Cerberus wouldn't even need to vent the hangar!
Like at the end of ME2. Hull breaches in the Normandy, Mass Effect fields in place.
[/quote]

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...


The thing is in ME1 you din't hear whispers or swirling clouds and other things.

You do absolutely see swirling clouds in ME1, they're just an incredible pain to capture by dint of being nowhere near as prominent as in 3's dream sequences, and they only show up once, at the end, when Sovereign is working his on Saren's corpse to return him to the fight. It's not just the normal game camera's edge-fade, it's tendrils and swirling. Did they really plan on using it again after so long, or did they play back through themselves and think 'huh, that's cool lol'? Who knows.

Anyhow, here's a vid of it, queued to correct time:
http://www.youtube.c...-LrQqqHE#t=178s

Ok I yield a little but its not as in your face as it is in ME3.Of all the conversations in the game , the last one felt like Shepard is reasoning with himself/herself.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

[quote]Big G13 wrote...

[quote]estebanus wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...





Ok I'll be specific. How does shepard and freinds walk out of a room without helmets, where Sovereigns leg puches through, exposing him to the same vacuum of space he was protecting himself of a few minutes earlier?

It wasn't important then, but somehow it's monumental now?



The thing is in ME1 you din't hear whispers or swirling clouds and other things.


1) That doesn't address the issue

2) You didn't hear whispers in the decision chamber. You'd think if the theory were correct you'd hear whispering at different intensities depending on your choice.




[qoute]
Lost wrote:
By this point Shepard is deep in his mind where the reapers want him.This is where they can gain the upper hand and trick him into to submitting , for him it's a last ditch effort to save himself and wake from the nightmare.Shepard at this level doesn't even know what he should do at this point , it's left up to the player to help Shepard make the right descision because your his last hope here. 
[/qoute]

[/quote]


well I would expect the living areas of the citdel to have some kind of contengiancy plan for a hull rupture (maybe mass effect field kicked in), whereas on me3 its an unknown part of the citadel, and doesnt need protecting[/quote] 

I commented on this issue a few pages back. 

The thing is, that Mass Effect fields are activated once a hull breach occurs to prevent the oxygen frombeing sucked out. Look at the codex entry for Mass-accelerator weapons. It states, that if a weapon is fired at a too high velocity, it would just fly straight through a ship, causing minimal damage, eventhough the oxygen still should be sucked out, right?
No. Mass effect fields are activated to keep the oxygen from being sucked out!

Same goes with the hangar at cronos station. If you look behind yourself, you can see that mass effect fields have been activated to prevent the loss of oxygen.
If mass effect fields can't contain oxygen within a certain space, then Cerberus wouldn't even need to vent the hangar!
Like at the end of ME2. Hull breaches in the Normandy, Mass Effect fields in place.
[/quote][/quote]

I won't touch this part anymore , but like I said in my other response.The last conversation seems like an inner struggle with ones self , not so much a good vs evil one.Because given the way Shepard is their was a zero chance of convincing Shepard to trust the Tim over Anderson.Now is you mess his mind up a bit , to the point he can't tell right/wrong actions or up from down.Then you as a reaper can finally get rid of what harbinger considers an annoyance.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 03 avril 2012 - 02:14 .

[Big G13]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...


The thing is in ME1 you din't hear whispers or swirling clouds and other things.

You do absolutely see swirling clouds in ME1, they're just an incredible pain to capture by dint of being nowhere near as prominent as in 3's dream sequences, and they only show up once, at the end, when Sovereign is working his on Saren's corpse to return him to the fight. It's not just the normal game camera's edge-fade, it's tendrils and swirling. Did they really plan on using it again after so long, or did they play back through themselves and think 'huh, that's cool lol'? Who knows.

Anyhow, here's a vid of it, queued to correct time:
http://www.youtube.c...-LrQqqHE#t=178s

Ok I yield a little but its not as in your face as it is in ME3.Of all the conversations in the game , the last one felt like Shepard is reasoning with himself/herself.

Yea, not as dramatic as ME3, but still a valid observation.

[-Algernon-]

For me, the IDT would make sense if the star-child would have been present from the beginning of the series, ie. Shepard encounters the boy on Eden Prime or shortly there after.  This is his very first introduction to the Reapers and indoctrination.  Who's to say that the Prothean beacon which Saren had comunicated with before Shepard arrived couldn't have been per say 'tainted' and when Shepard interacted with the beacon, this began the indoctrination, but only if the image of the child had been manifested before this encounter.  Later on Virmire (ME1) when Shepard interacts with this other Prothean beacon, all of a sudden Soveirgn appears.  Only way I'll buy into this is if there is a connection between the beacons, Saren, TIM, other Reaper artifacts, the boy, 'Collector' technology which would by default be Reaper influenced at the least and would also be present in the creation of Grunt. And on another note, what about the Thorian if you'll remember from ME1, was the oldest known lifeform ever discovered (actual age unknown) which had a very similar form of indoctrination and husk servants and the like.  Was this the original organic form of what eventually manifested as the Reapers?  Did the Reapers learn the process of indoctrination from the Thorian creatures millions of years before? And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers? Too many questions, not enough answers. I like the IDT, although it would take alot of text scrolling at the end of the game to explain and prove.  I'd much rather think that this was just a rushed ending to get the game out on the shelves and profits coming in because of a deadline,  let me back up, I would hate this but I think that's probably what really happened.

Modifié par -Algernon-, 03 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

-Algernon- wrote...

For me, the IDT would make sense if the star-child would have been present from the beginning of the series, ie. Shepard encounters the boy on Eden Prime or shortly there after.  This is his very first introduction to the Reapers and indoctrination.  Who's to say that the Prothean beacon which Saren had comunicated with before Shepard arrived couldn't have been per say 'tainted' and when Shepard interacted with the beacon, this began the indoctrination, but only if the image of the child had been manifested before this encounter.  Later on Virmire (ME1) when Shepard interacts with this other Prothean beacon, all of a sudden Soveirgn appears.  Only way I'll buy into this is if there is a connection between the beacons, Saren, TIM, other Reaper artifacts, the boy, 'Collector' technology which would by default be Reaper influenced at the least and would also be present in the creation of Grunt and the reconstruction of Shepard by Cerberus who you'll remember in ME1 was already experimenting with a simple form of indoctrination by way of the Thorian husks.  And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers?  I like the IDT, although it would take alot of text scrolling at the end of the game to explain and prove.  I'd much rather think that this was just a rushed ending to get the game out on the shelves and profits coming in because of a deadline,  let me back up, I would hate this but I think that's probably what really happened.

Well I see as the reapers wanting to know what makes this human/creature tick.He/She stopped our plans for the galaxy  two times in a row , every time we try to do something this person stops it.Finally in ME3 they came up with the perfect way to defeat Shepard once and for all , by weaking him mentally.By the end of the game Shepard is pretty broken but still hopeful which is put to the test by the reapers.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 03 avril 2012 - 02:24 .

[chevyguy87]

I fully support the IT after seeing the evidence and reading the Codex entry (multiple times) and comparing it to the events in the story (from all three games) it's as if I was connecting the dots. After getting struck by Harbinger, the red flags just started flying (for me at least) that the entire sequence was in Shepard's mind.

-slow motion movement (like the nightmares)
-trees and shrubbery in the background (also like the nightmares)
-shooting Anderson (Shepard ends up bleeding on the side that he/she supposedly shot Anderson)
-Illusive Man (black distortion around the edges of the screen paired with the Reaper growls in the background)
-Catalyst (Legion did say that he assimilated imagery that Shepard would be familiar with)
(quite possible Harbinger used the Child to exploit this loophole to get Shepard to break down mentally)
-Destroy ending (has that scene where what we think is Shepard taking a breath)
(he/she broke the indoctrination and wakes up in a pile of rubble in London(having never left Earth) and can continue the fight)

the evidence is pretty damning and the more you think about it the more it makes perfect sense

[Big G13]

-Algernon- wrote...

For me, the IDT would make sense if the star-child would have been present from the beginning of the series, ie. Shepard encounters the boy on Eden Prime or shortly there after.  This is his very first introduction to the Reapers and indoctrination.  Who's to say that the Prothean beacon which Saren had comunicated with before Shepard arrived couldn't have been per say 'tainted' and when Shepard interacted with the beacon, this began the indoctrination, but only if the image of the child had been manifested before this encounter.  Later on Virmire (ME1) when Shepard interacts with this other Prothean beacon, all of a sudden Soveirgn appears.  Only way I'll buy into this is if there is a connection between the beacons, Saren, TIM, other Reaper artifacts, the boy, 'Collector' technology which would by default be Reaper influenced at the least and would also be present in the creation of Grunt and the reconstruction of Shepard by Cerberus who you'll remember in ME1 was already experimenting with a simple form of indoctrination by way of the Thorian husks.  And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers?  I like the IDT, although it would take alot of text scrolling at the end of the game to explain and prove.  I'd much rather think that this was just a rushed ending to get the game out on the shelves and profits coming in because of a deadline,  let me back up, I would hate this but I think that's probably what really happened.

Bringing Reaper order to organic dis-order is the point. Melding everything into one form is what the reapers do.

[Emperor_Ike]

-Algernon- wrote...
*snip*
And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers?
*snip*

According to ME Wiki, bolded by me:
This diversity is presumably due to the Reapers' reproduction method, in
which vast numbers of a single species are harvested, melted down into a
raw genetic paste, and then used to construct a "larva" that takes on
the characteristics of the species from which it was created. The core
of the Reaper is in the image of the species that was used to create it
while the exterior follows a similar design that is most efficient for
their purpose.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

That said, the wiki quotes a GameInformer article as the source for that bit, so who really knows. But that makes the most sense to me.

[WeAreNotHere]

 I'm wondering. In Shepard's dream sequences, he/she constantly hears whispers. As we saw in The Arrival, Dr. Kenson stated that she could not hear the whispers of the Reapers after Shepard started The Project. Is this be the same influence on Shepard at a slower rate after being around so much Reaper technology, or probably just post traumatic stress disorder?

 Sneaky Reapers if this is true.

[byne]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

-Algernon- wrote...
*snip*
And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers?
*snip*

According to ME Wiki, bolded by me:
This diversity is presumably due to the Reapers' reproduction method, in which vast numbers of a single species are harvested, melted down into a raw genetic paste, and then used to construct a "larva" that takes on the characteristics of the species from which it was created. The core of the Reaper is in the image of the species that was used to create it while the exterior follows a similar design that is most efficient for their purpose.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

That said, the wiki quotes a GameInformer article as the source for that bit, so who really knows. But that makes the most sense to me.

Yeah, that would explain why the Reaper at the Collector Base looked human, too.

[PSUHammer]

So, I know this is old news to most of you but I just watched this

I don't know how anyone could NOT believe in the indoctrination theory with all this buildup and evidence.  It makes the most sense and I forsee Bioware's Rickroll coming this week.

I do think they handled the ending poorly, though.  If it was indoctrination, why not just complete that part of it as part of the main game instead of making everyone guess and groan?  Seems like they just lost some people.

[-Algernon-]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

-Algernon- wrote...
*snip*
And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers?
*snip*

According to ME Wiki, bolded by me:
This diversity is presumably due to the Reapers' reproduction method, in
which vast numbers of a single species are harvested, melted down into a
raw genetic paste, and then used to construct a "larva" that takes on
the characteristics of the species from which it was created. The core
of the Reaper is in the image of the species that was used to create it
while the exterior follows a similar design that is most efficient for
their purpose.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

That said, the wiki quotes a GameInformer article as the source for that bit, so who really knows. But that makes the most sense to me.

This makes sense if for instance the human 'larva' reaper being created at the end of ME2 would be 'piloting' one of the larger reaper 'ships' to put it in simple terms.
Ok what about the Thorian?
I see too many similarities between the Thorian and the Reapers.
I think there is a connection, and might explain a few things about the reapers and their motivations if this is true.

[Emperor_Ike]

WeAreNotHere wrote...

 I'm wondering. In Shepard's dream sequences, he/she constantly hears whispers. As we saw in The Arrival, Dr. Kenson stated that she could not hear the whispers of the Reapers after Shepard started The Project. Is this be the same influence on Shepard at a slower rate after being around so much Reaper technology, or probably just post traumatic stress disorder?

 Sneaky Reapers if this is true.

I would attribute the Dr.'s not hearing them to the reapers throwing up their hands in frustration and yelling about how their plans are always thrown awry by the heroic Shepard.

"Well. Shep just started up those asteroid-moving thrusters we'd convinced those other folks to turn off."
"Guess that means the Dr. and her team are no longer really useful, eh?"
"Yeah, 'bout sums it up. Oh wells! They were too easy, anyway."
"You're right. No real challenge there. So malleable, humans."   *generic choose-your-next-words-carefully look from Harby to whatever other reaper*   "Generally, I mean."

As to whether the dream sequence whispers are reaper influence or just PTSD, I do remember quotes from last year (just please don't ask me to source, guh so long ago) saying that Shep's emotional damage and inner turmoil would be starting to show in this outing. It could really go both ways. The shadows can only be one thing, but the whispers, at least at the beginning, I think are just his being emotionally fried from so much crap over his past couple of years.

[byne]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

WeAreNotHere wrote...

 I'm wondering. In Shepard's dream sequences, he/she constantly hears whispers. As we saw in The Arrival, Dr. Kenson stated that she could not hear the whispers of the Reapers after Shepard started The Project. Is this be the same influence on Shepard at a slower rate after being around so much Reaper technology, or probably just post traumatic stress disorder?

 Sneaky Reapers if this is true.

I would attribute the Dr.'s not hearing them to the reapers throwing up their hands in frustration and yelling about how their plans are always thrown awry by the heroic Shepard.

"Well. Shep just started up those asteroid-moving thrusters we'd convinced those other folks to turn off."
"Guess that means the Dr. and her team are no longer really useful, eh?"
"Yeah, 'bout sums it up. Oh wells! They were too easy, anyway."
"You're right. No real challenge there. So malleable, humans."   *generic choose-your-next-words-carefully look from Harby to whatever other reaper*   "Generally, I mean."

As to whether the dream sequence whispers are reaper influence or just PTSD, I do remember quotes from last year (just please don't ask me to source, guh so long ago) saying that Shep's emotional damage and inner turmoil would be starting to show in this outing. It could really go both ways. The shadows can only be one thing, but the whispers, at least at the beginning, I think are just his being emotionally fried from so much crap over his past couple of years.

I refuse to believe its PTSD.

My Shepard lost her family, friends, and everyone she knew when batarian slavers raided Mindoir.

She came out of that fine.

She lost her entire unit as they were devoured one by one by Thresher Maws on Akuze.

She came out of that fine.

She lost a good friend on Virmire, learned the truth behind the extinction of the Protheans, and freaking died.

She came out of that fine.

She sees how the Reapers abduct hundreds of thousands of colonists, dissolve them, and turn them into goo to make more Reapers, and possibly even lost some friends along the way.

SHE CAME OUT OF THAT FINE TOO.

What finally sets her off? The death of a child she'd never even met before.

No. I dont buy it.

[Emperor_Ike]

-Algernon- wrote...
*snip-a-little*
Ok what about the Thorian?
I see too many similarities between the Thorian and the Reapers.
I think there is a connection, and might explain a few things about the reapers and their motivations if this is true.

This this this. We've got an enormous plant that takes over meat-masses to do its bidding, indoctrinating them, if you will, via organic chemistry rather than the reapers' standard signal mojo . And it conveniently goes to sleep every few thousand years (I do believe I remember seeing the number 50,000 specifically in-game), between which periods it awakes for "a few frantic centuries."

To do what? And why is it timed so well with reaper events? Fishy, says I.

[byne]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

-Algernon- wrote...
*snip-a-little*
Ok what about the Thorian?
I see too many similarities between the Thorian and the Reapers.
I think there is a connection, and might explain a few things about the reapers and their motivations if this is true.

This this this. We've got an enormous plant that takes over meat-masses to do its bidding, indoctrinating them, if you will, via organic chemistry rather than the reapers' standard signal mojo . And it conveniently goes to sleep every few thousand years (I do believe I remember seeing the number 50,000 specifically in-game), between which periods it awakes for "a few frantic centuries."

To do what? And why is it timed so well with reaper events? Fishy, says I.

Also, dont forget, the Thorian can overpower Reaper Indoctrination.

[Voodzik]

Either.Ardrey wrote...
Byne, if the DLC would likely be free argument isn't in the OP yet, could you please add it? It could save us a lot of trouble in the long run. (EDIT: I didn't see it in my recent glance through of the OP while I was typing this post)

Yeah about this...come on, everyone.
Most of us knew we'd be buying DLC when we pre ordered the game. Hell, I was looking forward to it, after how awesome Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival...and hey, Stolen memories too...were. When the ending happened, I thought there would be some kind of DLC....and that I would have to pay for it. And that did not bother me.

We all got sixty bucks worth of game. I paid an extra ten for Javik, and I feel he was worth that ten bucks. Even with the current last ten minutes, we got our money's worth. And most of us know it. And that's ALL they "owe" us; the product the presented. Any further DLC will be more game. It will cost more than the current game did to produce. That's a given. Twelve cupcakes simply cost more to make than eleven. Making more costs more. Even if you intended the more to begin with. They cannot "owe" us the extra resources they would spend making more game.

So the DLC will probably be paid. And I'll pay for it. Because I got seventy bucks worth of game for seventy bucks, and to keep in business the creators, I'll pay them ten bucks for another ten worth of game. Charging for goods and services you provide is not a betrayal. They deserve to be paid for the extra effort, however they are presenting it. Demanding the DLC be free seems a little...I don't have an acceptably diplomatic adjective.  I mean those endings sucked, yes, but that doesn't change the fact we got our money's worth in the first place.

[RussianSpy27]

Either.Ardrey wrote...


I was attempting to answer in a non-hostile manner and supply the needed information in a succint and explicit manner, but apparently that went over your head. If the ending was/is something akin to IDT, then having it in the main game would make it lose most, if not all, of its emotional/psychological impact. When you add that to the fact that the endings were leaked twice, it gives them all the more reason to withhold it until enough people have completed the game, which also reflects statements from Bioware, which say that they won't discuss the endings until more people complete the game. If their plan was/is indeed akin to IDT, this is the only real way they could do it to it's maximum effect.

I never meant to cause any offense to anyone, but you are clearly easily offended, so I apologize for being brusque and not candy coating my rebuttal with smilies. Most information is supplied in the OP, which is the starting point for anyone just getting into understanding what this theory is about. So many people come into this thread without even doing that, it becomes difficult to discern between those who don't know and those who don't care. Also written communication is very inefficient, because tone can often be misinterpreted. Anyone would likely interpret this response as aggressive or attacking when I am merely trying to explain a position as clearly and concisely as possible, in an effort to not have to post the same thing over and over again. 



Byne, if the DLC would likely be free argument isn't in the OP yet, could you please add it? It could save us a lot of trouble in the long run. (EDIT: I didn't see it in my recent glance through of the OP while I was typing this post)

That's an excellent point, though it means that: (1) The rumor of Mr. Hudson taking over the ending with the lead writer and hence "ruining it" is false, (2) the "apology with dignity" letters of Mr. Hudson and Ray where they apologize and yet defend their orignal endings are all part of a clever intelligence operation to keep the surprise and they somehow calculated that doing so will be financially beneficial. 

That would be ingenious and heroic on BioWare's part in a way the World has never seen yet and will elevate them above every other company out there. It is my wish to believe so. 

At the same time, I still am not 100% sure if it was THAT planned out. Did they just underestimate all of the metacritic negativity? Did they calculate that the surprise will rebound decrease in sales? I hope so but again, not 100% certain how far in advance this strategy was planned.

As things stand though, going with Indocrination Theory is the best salvation there is no matter what.  

[Icinix]

byne wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

WeAreNotHere wrote...

 I'm wondering. In Shepard's dream sequences, he/she constantly hears whispers. As we saw in The Arrival, Dr. Kenson stated that she could not hear the whispers of the Reapers after Shepard started The Project. Is this be the same influence on Shepard at a slower rate after being around so much Reaper technology, or probably just post traumatic stress disorder?

 Sneaky Reapers if this is true.

I would attribute the Dr.'s not hearing them to the reapers throwing up their hands in frustration and yelling about how their plans are always thrown awry by the heroic Shepard.

"Well. Shep just started up those asteroid-moving thrusters we'd convinced those other folks to turn off."
"Guess that means the Dr. and her team are no longer really useful, eh?"
"Yeah, 'bout sums it up. Oh wells! They were too easy, anyway."
"You're right. No real challenge there. So malleable, humans."   *generic choose-your-next-words-carefully look from Harby to whatever other reaper*   "Generally, I mean."

As to whether the dream sequence whispers are reaper influence or just PTSD, I do remember quotes from last year (just please don't ask me to source, guh so long ago) saying that Shep's emotional damage and inner turmoil would be starting to show in this outing. It could really go both ways. The shadows can only be one thing, but the whispers, at least at the beginning, I think are just his being emotionally fried from so much crap over his past couple of years.

I refuse to believe its PTSD.

My Shepard lost her family, friends, and everyone she knew when batarian slavers raided Mindoir.

She came out of that fine.

She lost her entire unit as they were devoured one by one by Thresher Maws on Akuze.

She came out of that fine.

She lost a good friend on Virmire, learned the truth behind the extinction of the Protheans, and freaking died.

She came out of that fine.

She sees how the Reapers abduct hundreds of thousands of colonists, dissolve them, and turn them into goo to make more Reapers, and possibly even lost some friends along the way.

SHE CAME OUT OF THAT FINE TOO.

What finally sets her off? The death of a child she'd never even met before.

No. I dont buy it.

Yeah, if anything, the death of a random child would only strengthen my Sheps resolve.

[FreedMason]

byne wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

WeAreNotHere wrote...

 I'm wondering. In Shepard's dream sequences, he/she constantly hears whispers. As we saw in The Arrival, Dr. Kenson stated that she could not hear the whispers of the Reapers after Shepard started The Project. Is this be the same influence on Shepard at a slower rate after being around so much Reaper technology, or probably just post traumatic stress disorder?

 Sneaky Reapers if this is true.

I would attribute the Dr.'s not hearing them to the reapers throwing up their hands in frustration and yelling about how their plans are always thrown awry by the heroic Shepard.

"Well. Shep just started up those asteroid-moving thrusters we'd convinced those other folks to turn off."
"Guess that means the Dr. and her team are no longer really useful, eh?"
"Yeah, 'bout sums it up. Oh wells! They were too easy, anyway."
"You're right. No real challenge there. So malleable, humans."   *generic choose-your-next-words-carefully look from Harby to whatever other reaper*   "Generally, I mean."

As to whether the dream sequence whispers are reaper influence or just PTSD, I do remember quotes from last year (just please don't ask me to source, guh so long ago) saying that Shep's emotional damage and inner turmoil would be starting to show in this outing. It could really go both ways. The shadows can only be one thing, but the whispers, at least at the beginning, I think are just his being emotionally fried from so much crap over his past couple of years.

I refuse to believe its PTSD.

My Shepard lost her family, friends, and everyone she knew when batarian slavers raided Mindoir.

She came out of that fine.

She lost her entire unit as they were devoured one by one by Thresher Maws on Akuze.

She came out of that fine.

She lost a good friend on Virmire, learned the truth behind the extinction of the Protheans, and freaking died.

She came out of that fine.

She sees how the Reapers abduct hundreds of thousands of colonists, dissolve them, and turn them into goo to make more Reapers, and possibly even lost some friends along the way.

SHE CAME OUT OF THAT FINE TOO.

What finally sets her off? The death of a child she'd never even met before.

No. I dont buy it.

Hah, that is my Shepard's storyline as well! I like to think the Reapers know how humans like to place innocence on children, and used that as an 'avatar' to guide Shepard to their trap.

[Jaxitty]

-Algernon- wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

-Algernon- wrote...
*snip*
And btw, if Reapers are the 'old life' stored in Reaper form, as the star-child says, then why do they all look the same if they are partly based on the species that was harvested to create them?  Wouldn't it make sense if there were more variety in the Reaper forms if what they (the star-child and Reapers themselves) is true?  If the Reapers have been repeating the same cycle for millions upon millions of years, wouldn't there be at least dozens of different types and configurations of Reapers?
*snip*

According to ME Wiki, bolded by me:
This diversity is presumably due to the Reapers' reproduction method, in
which vast numbers of a single species are harvested, melted down into a
raw genetic paste, and then used to construct a "larva" that takes on
the characteristics of the species from which it was created. The core
of the Reaper is in the image of the species that was used to create it
while the exterior follows a similar design that is most efficient for
their purpose.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

That said, the wiki quotes a GameInformer article as the source for that bit, so who really knows. But that makes the most sense to me.

This makes sense if for instance the human 'larva' reaper being created at the end of ME2 would be 'piloting' one of the larger reaper 'ships' to put it in simple terms.
Ok what about the Thorian?
I see too many similarities between the Thorian and the Reapers.
I think there is a connection, and might explain a few things about the reapers and their motivations if this is true.

Part of the  reason Saren went after the Thorian was that Sovereign was interested in it's mind control tech. Think if the Reapers had the Thorians control abilities? Skeeery!

[Emperor_Ike]

byne wrote...
What finally sets her off? The death of a child she'd never even met before.

No. I dont buy it.

Me neither, personally. Too damn shady. I can't find a specific quote from BioWare about the whole trauma thing taking its course. I'll look again after pizza.