57139 réponses à ce sujet

[lex0r11]

Big G13 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
A whooooole bunch, and prolly better than I

Yes, they've definitely been wearing down Shep's mental defenses for months now, presumably starting when leaving Earth. But I feel the actual honest-to-gozer attempt to break Shepard's mind, to take over and say, once and for all, "You mine, k?" is definitely just 'now,' for lack of a better word. Anti-divine Providence. Harby happens to be at the beam that you happen to be running for because you happen to think it's the light at the end of the happen tunnel.

As it happens, happen has lost all meaning and is now a random collection of letters that honestly look rather silly together.

You guys are making my head hurt. ^^'

Just look at your baby picture post. It'll make it all better.

I'll read this comic again.
i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg

[Big G13]

lex0r11 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
A whooooole bunch, and prolly better than I

Yes, they've definitely been wearing down Shep's mental defenses for months now, presumably starting when leaving Earth. But I feel the actual honest-to-gozer attempt to break Shepard's mind, to take over and say, once and for all, "You mine, k?" is definitely just 'now,' for lack of a better word. Anti-divine Providence. Harby happens to be at the beam that you happen to be running for because you happen to think it's the light at the end of the happen tunnel.

As it happens, happen has lost all meaning and is now a random collection of letters that honestly look rather silly together.

You guys are making my head hurt. ^^'

Just look at your baby picture post. It'll make it all better.

I'll read this comic again.
i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg

And the hits just keep on coming.

[Jadebaby]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation. Independent, free of all weakness. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence. We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.

Also, each Reaper is a specie-specific.. shell, like the human larva at the end of ME2, residing in one of those space-faring ships that look like bugs. They're organic, but they have no need of reproduction beyond harvesting to create more shell-larvae.

Exactly, so maybe the reapers weren't the first organics that started the cycle, maybe it was the synthetics... and the synthetics actually won that war by harvesting them into themselves, but somehow came to rely on them to stay independant from each other, or they just do it to give themselves reasoning in life who knows. But i'd much prefer something like this to what we have

[Jadebaby]

Big G13 wrote...

And the hits just keep on coming.

lol I watch them all at once, now I can't even laugh at the story of Marauder Shields. He's too much of a badass to tolerate laughter

[Emperor_Ike]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation. Independent, free of all weakness. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence. We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.

Also, each Reaper is a specie-specific.. shell, like the human larva at the end of ME2, residing in one of those space-faring ships that look like bugs. They're organic, but they have no need of reproduction beyond harvesting to create more shell-larvae.

Exactly, so maybe the reapers weren't the first organics that started the cycle, maybe it was the synthetics... and the synthetics actually won that war by harvesting them into themselves, but somehow came to rely on them to stay independant from each other, or they just do it to give themselves reasoning in life who knows. But i'd much prefer something like this to what we have

Turtles humping shoes would make more sense as an ending than what we have.

Oh, look...

:innocent:

[nightcobra]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation. Independent, free of all weakness. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence. We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.

Also, each Reaper is a specie-specific.. shell, like the human larva at the end of ME2, residing in one of those space-faring ships that look like bugs. They're organic, but they have no need of reproduction beyond harvesting to create more shell-larvae.

Exactly, so maybe the reapers weren't the first organics that started the cycle, maybe it was the synthetics... and the synthetics actually won that war by harvesting them into themselves, but somehow came to rely on them to stay independant from each other, or they just do it to give themselves reasoning in life who knows. But i'd much prefer something like this to what we have

or maybe they were organics at some point and then used more and more tech implants on themselves until they ultimately decided to merge themselves with machines, downloading all their individual minds into the shells made from their own bodies and tech ending with what we now know as reapers.
the motive for this? i can't really say but maybe achieving immortality/enlightnement perhaps? only that they soon figured that even their immortality was flawed leading to their plan to harvest organic races in order to keep their own genetic pool varied in order to avoid stagnation.

[Jadebaby]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Turtles humping shoes would make more sense as an ending than what we have.

Oh, look...

:innocent:

lol is this still a better ending than Mass Effect 3?

Also, yea I kind of just added that to the end of my post because that's how most people usually end it if their ideas didn't seam as good on the screen as they did in their head

[Stonesoundjam]

Indoctrination theory is lame.

Not by virtue that it's driven via speculation. Not that it is driven by intent, as it may well be. Not by virtue of the fact that it offers, albeit with some struggle, a way to somehow make the bitter ending slightly more palatable.

Indoctrination theory is lame by virtue that it funnels an already limited choice by an even greater degree. Instead of the vagaries of 3 similarly patronising outcomes, you become restricted in being able to "win" with just one possible "correct" choice.

How does that, in the largest scale of things, make it a more satisfying outcome? If you buy IT then you're being led by you own nose down only one path, and the worst part is, you're feeling a possibly false sense of victory.

On the most macro level, the acceptance of IT is in and of itself, the most subtle form of indoctrination. You buy this concept that's seeded in your mind that waking up in rubble is the one true outcome.

My personal problem with IT is that it prerequisites the annihilation of synthetics. I refuse to doom an entire branch of concurrent evolution based on the hypothesis that they eventually will kill all organics. I refuse to buy that Cold War rhetoric.

To me the end of ME 3 and to a larger extent the entire IT is sort of like the end of Inception with the spinning token. Except Inception didn't employ some little turd come up to me after the lights came up and punched me in the babymaker.

[Emperor_Ike]

nightcobra8928 wrote...or maybe they were organics at some point and then used more and more tech implants on themselves until they ultimately decided to merge themselves with machines, downloading all their individual minds into the shells made from their own bodies and tech ending with what we now know as reapers.
the motive for this? i can't really say but maybe achieving immortality/enlightnement perhaps? only that they soon figured that even their immortality was flawed leading to their plan to harvest organic races in order to keep their own genetic pool varied in order to avoid stagnation.

The organic-origin could very well be, but remember: they don't need variation, they don't stagnate. Stagnation is only a risk with a limited pool to begin with, and each Reaper is its own pool. There is no mixing, no mingling, because there is no need. The only thing they share is their dark purpose. Or porpoise (that actually explains everything. Sh--!).
I know it helps to try and rationalize, but this is really all it comes down to. And that makes it all the worse.

[lex0r11]

Stonesoundjam wrote...

Indoctrination theory is lame.

Not by virtue that it's driven via speculation. Not that it is driven by intent, as it may well be. Not by virtue of the fact that it offers, albeit with some struggle, a way to somehow make the bitter ending slightly more palatable.

Indoctrination theory is lame by virtue that it funnels an already limited choice by an even greater degree. Instead of the vagaries of 3 similarly patronising outcomes, you become restricted in being able to "win" with just one possible "correct" choice.

How does that, in the largest scale of things, make it a more satisfying outcome? If you buy IT then you're being led by you own nose down only one path, and the worst part is, you're feeling a possibly false sense of victory.

On the most macro level, the acceptance of IT is in and of itself, the most subtle form of indoctrination. You buy this concept that's seeded in your mind that waking up in rubble is the one true outcome.

My personal problem with IT is that it prerequisites the annihilation of synthetics. I refuse to doom an entire branch of concurrent evolution based on the hypothesis that they eventually will kill all organics. I refuse to buy that Cold War rhetoric.

To me the end of ME 3 and to a larger extent the entire IT is sort of like the end of Inception with the spinning token. Except Inception didn't employ some little turd come up to me after the lights came up and punched me in the babymaker.

Then see the three choices as modifiers to a new endgame. See the choices not as real, because it is part of the indoctrination. And how you choose will affect maybe how much people will die, who will die, if there is a 'perfect' ending with the least casualties or an absolute win for the reapers taking you EMS into account.

Modifié par lex0r11, 03 avril 2012 - 11:35 .

[Big G13]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation. Independent, free of all weakness. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence. We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.

Also, each Reaper is a specie-specific.. shell, like the human larva at the end of ME2, residing in one of those space-faring ships that look like bugs. They're organic, but they have no need of reproduction beyond harvesting to create more shell-larvae.

Exactly, so maybe the reapers weren't the first organics that started the cycle, maybe it was the synthetics... and the synthetics actually won that war by harvesting them into themselves, but somehow came to rely on them to stay independant from each other, or they just do it to give themselves reasoning in life who knows. But i'd much prefer something like this to what we have

Turtles humping shoes would make more sense as an ending than what we have.

Oh, look...

:innocent:

OMG! LMAO! Duuude, that is just wrong. But the most disturbing thing is, thats how I always imagined my blue babies would sound.

[Emperor_Ike]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol is this still a better ending than Mass Effect 3?

Also, yea I kind of just added that to the end of my post because that's how most people usually end it if their ideas didn't seam as good on the screen as they did in their head

That's a great ending to anything, I'd say.

[Jadebaby]

lex0r11 wrote...

Stonesoundjam wrote...

*snipped 

Then see the three choices as modifiers to a new endgame. See the choices not as real, because it is part of the indoctrination. And how you choose will affect maybe how much people will die, who will die, if there is a 'perfect' ending with the least casualties or an abolute win for the reapers taking you EMS into account.

Exactly this^. Also because it is a dream, it does not mean you killed "all" synthetics.. remember Starchild already lies when he says you will probably die too as you're part synthetic yourself. don't believe everything he says.. It's all part of it.
How clever would bioware feel right now if IT is true, sitting back knowing that they have caused intelligent people to indoctrinate their Shepard without knowing it? It's all part of the act.

[Jadebaby]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

The organic-origin could very well be, but remember: they don't need variation, they don't stagnate. Stagnation is only a risk with a limited pool to begin with, and each Reaper is its own pool. There is no mixing, no mingling, because there is no need. The only thing they share is their dark purpose. Or porpoise (that actually explains everything. Sh--!).
I know it helps to try and rationalize, but this is really all it comes down to. And that makes it all the worse.

Then maybe because each are their own pool, then that's why they need to mix up the pool, to stop each individual reaper stagnating....?

[Big G13]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Turtles humping shoes would make more sense as an ending than what we have.

Oh, look...

:innocent:

lol is this still a better ending than Mass Effect 3?

Also, yea I kind of just added that to the end of my post because that's how most people usually end it if their ideas didn't seam as good on the screen as they did in their head

lol. Intoxication theory incarnate.

[nightcobra]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

The organic-origin could very well be, but remember: they don't need variation, they don't stagnate. Stagnation is only a risk with a limited pool to begin with, and each Reaper is its own pool. There is no mixing, no mingling, because there is no need. The only thing they share is their dark purpose. Or porpoise (that actually explains everything. Sh--!).
I know it helps to try and rationalize, but this is really all it comes down to. And that makes it all the worse.

i see your point but i tend to disagree that they don't stagnate, if nothing else because we don't know what actually the reapers do in dark space for 50000 years. my guess is that they do mingle with each other in order to share experiences and perspectives as well as their own "species specific" technology in order to refine it, streamline it and improve it until no more perspectives or improvements can be made marking the need for a new harvesting and the continuation of their cycle of mental and physical improvement.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 03 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[Leonia]

Talking about the shared experiences between the different species Reapers kind of reminds me of why asari mate with non-asari..

[nightcobra]

leonia42 wrote...

Talking about the shared experiences between the different species Reapers kind of reminds me of why asari mate with non-asari..

kinda like that yes.

[Rifneno]

[quote]DuskRose wrote...

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

[quote]DuskRose wrote...

XD You don't trust Wrex/Eve?[/quote]

I do, I was just trying to make a joke. Though I have to admit, an innately hostile organic tank with the lifespan of an asari and the reproduction mechanism of a rabbit might be... problematic down the road. Still the lesser of two evils though. As Shepard told that self-righteous dalatrass pustule, you can't condemn an entire race based on what might happen.

Or, I suppose, you could. But you'd need to find some dead woman to base your religion around and twist her words, hire some street gangs and give them drugs, eventually find an ancient evil to indoctrinate you and then melt it into a sword... it's a bit long process. Easier to just avoid the whole genocide thing.[/quote]

Wait. What?
Also: why are people adding on inside the quotes?[/quote]

It was a joke about Dragon Age. The Chantry of Andraste in specific. Okay, imagine if Cerberus wasn't dealing with indoctrination, they were simply that evil. That's pretty much the Chantry.

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...

That's what makes it a plot hole. Not many have said the endings made a world of sense.[/quote]

A plot hole is something without an explanation. This has an explanation. If people stick their fingers in their ears and yell real loud, it's their fault. Not BioWare's.

[quote]WeAreNotHere wrote...

I'm wondering. In Shepard's dream sequences, he/she constantly hears whispers. As we saw in The Arrival, Dr. Kenson stated that she could not hear the whispers of the Reapers after Shepard started The Project. Is this be the same influence on Shepard at a slower rate after being around so much Reaper technology, or probably just post traumatic stress disorder?[/quote]

Let's see... Symptoms of PTSD:

1. Exposure to a traumatic event. ... Yeah, but only on days that end with "day". That's kind of a given though.

2. Persistent re-experiencing. Not really. Shepard "distressing dreams", but they fit the symptoms of indoctrination MUCH better than PTSD. It could only be called a flashback in the loosest definition of the word but it's chock full of oily shadows, whispers you can't quite make out, buzzing and ringing noises, all that fun stuff.

3. Persistent avoidance and emotional numbing. LOL! The COMPLETE opposite. Shepard is so emotional through the game that I was waiting for my Shep to get past the period and move on. And I'm not even playing FemShep. Avoidance? Remember the last time Shepard avoided the Reapers? Yeah, me neither.

4. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal not present before. Yeah, that one is definitely there.

So to sum up, #1 is technically present but it's a prerequisite for having PTSD just like having feet is a prerequisite for a broken toe. #2 is there if you REALLY try to make it fit but it fits indoctrination much better. #3 is unarguably absent. #4 is there.

If this was an episode of House and someone suggested PTSD over indoctrination, they'd get a cane thrown at them.

[quote]LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Kind of reminds of Braid where you think the person your playing as is trying to save his princess from an evil knight.In reality(when time is the way it's suppose to be) it's the princess that's running away from the person your playing as and wanting the knight to rescue her.

[/quote]

Don't forget the secret ending it turns out the whole thing was a metaphor for Project Trinity and how the scientists wish they could put the genie back in the bottle.
Collect the ubersecret stars and the ending changes so you can actually catch the girl. And when you do, she starts flashing like an LED display going ape****, then the screen goes white as you hear the trademark sound of an atomic bomb detonating. They must've had to add new digits to the Creepy Meter for Braid.

It's okay, I wasn't planning on sleeping tonight anyway.

[quote]Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

also: "last seen: Earth" is not very specific! You'd think if somebody missed him they'd at least know which land he was in!
[/quote]

Has anyone seen my keys? The last time I saw them, they were in the Virgo Supercluster.

[quote]XerxesDragon wrote...

If that;s the case, why doesn't anyone else share these eyes? (Benezia, the people from the arrival DLC)

[/quote]

There's no "if". That's the case. TIM got the eyes from the Reaper artifact. It's canon. Deal.

[quote]Big G13 wrote...

If you chose synthesis every body ends up with those eyes.[/quote]

No they don't. I heard the same argument before, so when I did an analysis of the indoctrinated eyes (the close-ups of the eyes that got added to OP) I also did it on Joker's eyes in the synthesis ending. They are not indoctrinated eyes, they're normal eyes with a glowing green iris.

[quote]Baldsake wrote...

I just replayed the ending (god knows why) and the biggest flaw is still the normandy scene (where are they? How did garrus get there he was with me?).. Combine that with the breathing scene and you cant convince me that BioWare didnt plan ending DLC.. Or something.. No trilogy should end like that and they know it.[/quote]

I still say the synthesis ending is the biggest flaw. They should put a surgeon general's warning on that thing. Watching it kills more braincells than drinking a cup of gasoline.

[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I'm way ahead of you guys, N7 rating 240 or so now . Doesn't compare to the thousands that some people have but hey I think it's good for how often I can play. Any PC Origin gamers hit up Razgriz280. I can play a mean Krogan sentinel, a decent soldier and a smart adept.
[/quote]

Yay, another AC fan!

Modifié par Rifneno, 03 avril 2012 - 11:54 .

[CruddierCashew]

Stonesoundjam wrote...


Indoctrination theory is lame by virtue that it funnels an already limited choice by an even greater degree. Instead of the vagaries of 3 similarly patronising outcomes, you become restricted in being able to "win" with just one possible "correct" choice.

How does that, in the largest scale of things, make it a more satisfying outcome? If you buy IT then you're being led by you own nose down only one path, and the worst part is, you're feeling a possibly false sense of victory.
 

There could be other real outcomes with the control and synthesis choices. You could play as indoctrinated Shepard. Maybe you would have to fight your squadmates or have the choice to kill yourself, etc. Either way, there isn't only one path. IT allows for many.

[Emperor_Ike]

Stonesoundjam wrote...

Indoctrination theory is lame.

Not by virtue that it's driven via speculation. Not that it is driven by intent, as it may well be. Not by virtue of the fact that it offers, albeit with some struggle, a way to somehow make the bitter ending slightly more palatable.

Indoctrination theory is lame by virtue that it funnels an already limited choice by an even greater degree. Instead of the vagaries of 3 similarly patronising outcomes, you become restricted in being able to "win" with just one possible "correct" choice.
*sniiiiiiiip*

http://www.vg247.com...-ending-option/
Date. This was pre-leak as well, iirc.

Hey hey, Rif's up and about so thread is in good hands, hehe. Aaaand now it's... sonofa'o'clock. I'm going to bed, ladies and gents. See you's tomorr-er, later.

Modifié par Emperor_Ike, 03 avril 2012 - 12:02 .

[Derp88]

Just wanted to clarify something. Does the starchild actually say Shepard will die if he chooses the destroy option. I know it states Shepard is "partly synthetic", but that does not necessarily mean death for the hero/ine.

I think we have to consider that the starchild implies Shepard would die with destroy, but does not outright say "If you choose this solution you WILL die". So can it be considered a lie?

Thoughts?

[Baldsake]

Derp88 wrote...

Just wanted to clarify something. Does the starchild actually say Shepard will die if he chooses the destroy option. I know it states Shepard is "partly synthetic", but that does not necessarily mean death for the hero/ine.

I think we have to consider that the starchild implies Shepard would die with destroy, but does not outright say "If you choose this solution you WILL die". So can it be considered a lie?

Thoughts?

Couldn't it be considered a lie either way? I don't trust anything that little brat says.

[lex0r11]

Derp88 wrote...

Just wanted to clarify something. Does the starchild actually say Shepard will die if he chooses the destroy option. I know it states Shepard is "partly synthetic", but that does not necessarily mean death for the hero/ine.

I think we have to consider that the starchild implies Shepard would die with destroy, but does not outright say "If you choose this solution you WILL die". So can it be considered a lie?

Thoughts?

Never says you will die. Only with the others.

"You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Including the Geth. Even you are partly synthetic."

youtu.be/yAHUKHAGzqw#t=06m16

[Derp88]

So does this prove that the starchild is not a liar? Just an entity with, albeit flawed, logic?

After all, its meant to be a "thing you cannot comprehend".