57139 réponses à ce sujet

[n00bsauce2010]

I don't even know why people are considering that Shepard fell down back to earth and survived. Go back and play ME2. We are made aware that the only reason he survived is because his armor and N7 helmet were intact and secured properly. The Shepard at the end of Me3 has no shields and his armor is nearly nonexistent. Also.. no helmet at all.

If you watch the ending, there are two explosions.. 1 where Shepard is standing when he shoots the glass for the destroy option.and then moments later another where the citadel explodes.

There is no way in hell..any synthetic or non synthetics would survive that fall back to earth without the armor. Especially with earth having +15% of gravity and atmospheric pressure compared to the previous planet Shepard took a dive on.

[MarkasLin]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

heh I still like calling the space brat space cancer

I do not get the hate for that kid.. first of all:

He died while trying to sescape... and you hated him for it? I felt really sad to see Shepard so thorn apart by it... and if you did not like him at that point, than maybe you do not like kids in general, period.

Then, when he becomes the Catalyst... it is NOT the same kid.. just something the Catalyst is pulling out of Shepard's brain.. so why the hate for the kid?

Hate the Catalyst if anything.

Note the difference between Kid and space brat (who apparently is space cancer)

[Golferguy758]

Only part that cerberus mentions recovering whole is the brain. Even that was only due to the helmet keeping it intact. No log mention s any other organ being intact. We can create hearts, to an extent, with current medicine. I'm pretty sure cerberus could create a new heart especially since it's nit what makes shepard tick, metaphorically

[Baldsake]

Kroen135 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

At 4,000 Readiness Rating (EMS), if you choose to destroy the reapers and "saved" Anderson, Shepard lives.

At 5,000 Readiness Rating (EMS), if you choose to destroy the reapers and did not "save" Anderson, Shepard lives

The rest are the same as if you saved the collector base.

Can anyone explain to me how we "save" or not "save" Anderson? 

Pretty sure if IM kilsl him, you die, and if you kill the IM he dies later anyways?

If you don't convince him to kill himself, he will try to shoot Anderson, if you choose to not hit the interrupt he will proceed to kill Anderson. Then he will try to shoot you. If you interrupt now the game will continue but Anderson will have been killed.

So those 2, do not differentiate at all since you have the choice to save Anderson or let him die anyways?

Pretty much, after 4,000 EMS the only thing that is different with the 3 choices is Destroy. Stating that if you have 4,000 you have to "save" Anderson to have Shepard live. Now "save" is in quotations because you only save him from TIM he will still die regardless. However if you reach 5,000 EMS you don't even have to save him from TIM to be able to have Shepard live. The difference I listed from the Collector's Edition Strategy Guide are mainly different based on if you chose to save or destroy the collector's base from ME2. Also, they only really affect the choices prior to 2800 EMS (when synthesis enters the equation) at which point all the outcomes are relatively the same no matter the decision you made about the Collector base in ME2.

It's weird though, I had 5000+ EMS and 100% galactic readiness and could only choose between destroy and control, also I didnt get the breathing scene but my whole crew did survive.. I didn't care too much seeing as I had already seen all the endings and the IDT videos on YT.. Still weird though, might have to replay the game to see what that was about.

[Vahilor]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

I don't even know why people are considering that Shepard fell down back to earth and survived. Go back and play ME2. We are made aware that the only reason he survived is because his armor and N7 helmet were intact and secured properly. The Shepard at the end of Me3 has no shields and his armor is nearly nonexistent. Also.. no helmet at all.

If you watch the ending, there are two explosions.. 1 where Shepard is standing when he shoots the glass for the destroy option.and then moments later another where the citadel explodes.

There is no way in hell..any synthetic or non synthetics would survive that fall back to earth without the armor. Especially with earth having +15% of gravity and atmospheric pressure compared to the previous planet Shepard took a dive on.

I never asumed that he fell back to earth ^^. I'm a IDT believer... but for me the explosion is more prove for IDT that the "Shepard partly synthetic part".. that's all =)
Cause the explosion and a fall back to earth nobody would survive.

[Golferguy758]

Uhh I don't think anyone minds the kid if he's real. People hate the space cancer at the end

[MadRabbit999]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

heh I still like calling the space brat space cancer

I do not get the hate for that kid.. first of all:

He died while trying to sescape... and you hated him for it? I felt really sad to see Shepard so thorn apart by it... and if you did not like him at that point, than maybe you do not like kids in general, period.

Then, when he becomes the Catalyst... it is NOT the same kid.. just something the Catalyst is pulling out of Shepard's brain.. so why the hate for the kid?

Hate the Catalyst if anything.

well, this theory kind of assumes that the kid always was the Catalyst, so...

I am aware about the theory, but this hate is used by non-IT beleivers too, and I think it just proves the point of "internet people love to jump hate-bandwagons even if they have no idea what they are hating".

[Big G13]

Silasqtx wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying that shepard can live without his synthetic parts is like saying you can live without your lungs.

Shepard is ay least 50% synthetic. He was a puddle of meat and bone at the start of lazarus.

Nope. Most of the tissue was re-created from scratch, but not synthetic. Heart and brain are both preserved. 

Didn't Dr. Chaukwas (sp) examine Shepard and say that the the implants were largely superficial. I'm not sure on that but I think she did.

[macrocarl]

pirate1802 wrote...

First post here. Just finished the game yesterday, picked the destroy ending. About the endings, I did not absolutely hate them, but there is no denying it had more plot holes than my backside alley. Some of them seemed absolutely indefensible to me.

1. How in the darkest hell does Shepard survive being fried by Harby's laser? sometime before the last charge, we see a turian being lazed and he disintegrates before he could move a muscle. While shepard survives almost intact. O.o

2. Why does Shepard meekly accepts every BS the starchild throws at her? That kid replies "no you can't" when she says they incline to keep their present form. My ruthless Shepard would have never taken that rebuke lying down. She seemed to be drugged or something, unable to think clearly. She just went along everyone that kid said She even said "i don't know" at the synthesis suggestion, wtf? She is fighting all along the three games for the exact opposite and just says "I don't know" when suggested to do that? My Shepard would have got a renegade interrupt right there, which would have involved throwing the kid into the destroy node. It's like Ezio being asked to kill an innocent child and he replies: "are you sure?"

3. I tried all the endings, in all of them she starts off limping, and when she reaches the end she magically recovers? This one is so blatant it's hard to believe Bioware didn't do this intentionally. Its as if she was pretending to be limping and suddenly decides to stop acting. In the synthesis ending she even breaks into a full-scale run! How can someone who is hit by a freaking Reaper (and the leader of the reapers nonetheless) laser, couldn't walk properly two seconds ago is now sprinting like a marathon runner!

3. The destroy ending clearly SHOWS Shepard being engulfed in flames. How can someone survive that explosion is beyond me, yet she survives again, and what's more her armour, again, is mostly intact (as it was before the explosion)

4. If the Catalyst was sitting on the Citadel controlling the reapers wtf was all the Saren drama in ME1 for?

All these plot holes seem almost deliberate. Even a kid of the age of the starchild can see them, its hard to believe Bioware would leave them unattended. This is why i believe IDT, or any other alternative theory, has merit. After making 2.99 brilliant games, you just don't off your brainz and make a BS ending. And that too with such glaring plot holes. This seems more unbelievable to me than IDT. Even if you run out of time/resources, or want "lots of speculations for everyone!" you would at least try to cover up the holes as much as possible. Here Bioware seems to be proudly showcasing them. Just when we think we had enough holes, here comes another.. and another!
I'm doing another playthrough now, would look for the hints mentioned in this thread

Ha! Totally! Welcome to IT. There's room enough for everyone at the speculation table

[BWSocial]

BWSocial wrote...

After all I have read and seen, I too believe the ending must be an indoctrination attempt. It has to be.

There are however some questions that keep bugging me and I can't find an answer to myself. Sorry if those have already been explained but I havent read ALL of the posts .

WHEN exactly, and WHY would Harbinger even try to do a fast emergency indoctrination?
Because if Shep is lying half-dead and unconscious in London, just killing Shep at this point seems far more effective, if not as effective.
Unless ofc, Harbinger being at the site is ALSO part of the indoctrination attempt. If it is not at the site in reality, I could understand why it is trying to indoctrinate as some sort of emergency longer distance defense. OR...Harbinger realizes he cannot get a clear shot on Shep and cannot stoop him with his guns and thus tries to fast-indoctrinate. WHICH would render Shep motionless for some time, enough to get a clear shot at him (???).
So why not just kill him instead? Are they afraid of martyrdom? Hmmmm.... Maybe that isn't too far-fetched at all. The united galactic forces still have a fair shot at destroying the reapers (they still have the crucible etc.).

Alternatively I can understand an indoctrination attempt (as a last resort defense) if Shep is physically present in the citadel and no Reaper can kill him anymore with big guns.
THIS however makes me ponder why Shep wakes up in London after destroying the Reapers (and all synthetic life??), including the mass-relays and the citadel itself, where Shep was on! How could he survive that and end up in London?

If anyone has an answer to any of this please post.

Thanks for the answers to my questions guys and gals . Yes you (all) definately helped, Jade8aby88.

@ BigG13: yes I hope that there is some continuation (DLC) too! Altho... wouldn't it be a poor continuation for the Sheps that choose 'control' or 'synthesis' (to be indoctrinated)? How would an indoctrinated Shep continue? I think seeing that would only add to the heartbreak we already felt in the endings as they are! Only the Sheps that choose 'destroy' could have a satisfying continuation, no? (Or the 'you are killed, bosh'tet screen' could be displayed after a wrong choice in such a dlc... haha).

After choosing 'destroy' we already know Shep will survive, but what will happen to Shep afterwards? And his crew? I think Bioware will leave that up to our imaginations and will only clarify the endings (a little more) as they are, not take us by our hand (sorry I know this is only speculation but I have to assume contr...eh... the worst >.<). Still I hope for a little more closure on specific crewmates and stronger hints as to what these endings are really about.

If we are right about the IT (here follows wishful thinking), I think Shep has a good chance to eventually get back into touch with his/her crew in a near future, but only if Shep chose the destroy ending with high enough EMS. 
If the Normandy would be intact enough, some crewmembers might even get back to earth, or, Shep might find their 'distress beacon'. They can't be too far away from earth because they couldn't flee through a mass realay so must be pretty close (relatively heheh) to earth! At least they must be in the Local Cluster.

What happens after such a reunion I think we might never be told (but we have imagination ), as the only thing we know is that 'stargazer' -whoever he might be- has a lot of stories about 'the Shepard' so his remembrance has been passed on and still lives on in this far-away future. But again, we have our imagination...

Edit: changed Sol System into Local Cluster. this was clearly a mistype!

Modifié par BWSocial, 03 avril 2012 - 03:16 .

[MadRabbit999]

BWSocial wrote...

BWSocial wrote...

After all I have read and seen, I too believe the ending must be an indoctrination attempt. It has to be.

There are however some questions that keep bugging me and I can't find an answer to myself. Sorry if those have already been explained but I havent read ALL of the posts .

WHEN exactly, and WHY would Harbinger even try to do a fast emergency indoctrination?
Because if Shep is lying half-dead and unconscious in London, just killing Shep at this point seems far more effective, if not as effective.
Unless ofc, Harbinger being at the site is ALSO part of the indoctrination attempt. If it is not at the site in reality, I could understand why it is trying to indoctrinate as some sort of emergency longer distance defense. OR...Harbinger realizes he cannot get a clear shot on Shep and cannot stoop him with his guns and thus tries to fast-indoctrinate. WHICH would render Shep motionless for some time, enough to get a clear shot at him (???).
So why not just kill him instead? Are they afraid of martyrdom? Hmmmm.... Maybe that isn't too far-fetched at all. The united galactic forces still have a fair shot at destroying the reapers (they still have the crucible etc.).

Alternatively I can understand an indoctrination attempt (as a last resort defense) if Shep is physically present in the citadel and no Reaper can kill him anymore with big guns.
THIS however makes me ponder why Shep wakes up in London after destroying the Reapers (and all synthetic life??), including the mass-relays and the citadel itself, where Shep was on! How could he survive that and end up in London?

If anyone has an answer to any of this please post.

Thanks for the answers to my questions guys and gals . Yes you (all) definately helped, Jade8aby88.

@ BigG13: yes I hope that there is some continuation (DLC) too! Altho... wouldn't it be a poor continuation for the Sheps that choose 'control' or 'synthesis' (to be indoctrinated)? How would an indoctrinated Shep continue? I think seeing that would only add to the heartbreak we already felt in the endings as they are! Only the Sheps that choose 'destroy' could have a satisfying continuation, no? (Or the 'you are killed, bosh'tet screen' could be displayed after a wrong choice in such a dlc... haha).

After choosing 'destroy' we already know Shep will survive, but what will happen to Shep afterwards? And his crew? I think Bioware will leave that up to our imaginations and will only clarify the endings (a little more) as they are, not take us by our hand (sorry I know this is only speculation but I have to assume contr...eh... the worst >.<). Still I hope for a little more closure on specific crewmates and stronger hints as to what these endings are really about.

If we are right about the IT (here follows wishful thinking), I think Shep has a good chance to eventually get back into touch with his/her crew in a near future, but only if Shep chose the destroy ending with high enough EMS. 
If the Normandy would be intact enough, some crewmembers might even get back to earth, or, Shep might find their 'distress beacon'. They can't be too far away from earth because they couldn't flee through a mass realay so must be pretty close (relatively heheh) to earth! At least they must be in the Sol system.

What happens after such a reunion I think we might never be told (but we have imagination ), as the only thing we know is that 'stargazer' -whoever he might be- has a lot of stories about 'the Shepard' so his remembrance has been passed on and still lives on in this far-away future. But again, we have our imagination...

I have said this many times before.. BW will NEVER confirm or disproof of the IT, they want you to speculate, they do not want you to have a concrete ending, you have been warned.

At the most optimistic, they will fill quite a few plotholes here and there, and if IT is not true, maybe showing you some more aftermath scenes, nothing more, while if IT is true, (And they want to throw out of the window the "speculations") the nthey will add scens that will highlight what happens to Sheapard, like "Evil Shepard rising form the ashes in form of an indoctrinated puppet, goign to kill all of his friends, or the crucible successfully activating (Without the need to be done manually from the inside) and perhaps an aftermath victory scene while they carry the unconscious body off Shepard fro mthe rubble?

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 03 avril 2012 - 02:29 .

[FreedMason]

The biggest plot-hole pre ending--at least for me--is the Crucible. This has probably been mentioned before, but how can Galatic species build a McGuffin superweapon for billions of years without the ultra-effecient Reapers noticing? They built the Mass Relays, and it appears they 'allowed' the races to build this superweapon. Why did the Reapers not locate and destroy the Crucible during the game if it really could kill them? Perhaps it was another Mass Relay trap that allowed their plans to go forth unhindered. Could it have been indoctrinating the workers that were constructing it?

[Kroen135]

Baldsake wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Kroen135 wrote...

At 4,000 Readiness Rating (EMS), if you choose to destroy the reapers and "saved" Anderson, Shepard lives.

At 5,000 Readiness Rating (EMS), if you choose to destroy the reapers and did not "save" Anderson, Shepard lives

The rest are the same as if you saved the collector base.

Can anyone explain to me how we "save" or not "save" Anderson? 

Pretty sure if IM kilsl him, you die, and if you kill the IM he dies later anyways?

If you don't convince him to kill himself, he will try to shoot Anderson, if you choose to not hit the interrupt he will proceed to kill Anderson. Then he will try to shoot you. If you interrupt now the game will continue but Anderson will have been killed.

So those 2, do not differentiate at all since you have the choice to save Anderson or let him die anyways?

Pretty much, after 4,000 EMS the only thing that is different with the 3 choices is Destroy. Stating that if you have 4,000 you have to "save" Anderson to have Shepard live. Now "save" is in quotations because you only save him from TIM he will still die regardless. However if you reach 5,000 EMS you don't even have to save him from TIM to be able to have Shepard live. The difference I listed from the Collector's Edition Strategy Guide are mainly different based on if you chose to save or destroy the collector's base from ME2. Also, they only really affect the choices prior to 2800 EMS (when synthesis enters the equation) at which point all the outcomes are relatively the same no matter the decision you made about the Collector base in ME2.

It's weird though, I had 5000+ EMS and 100% galactic readiness and could only choose between destroy and control, also I didnt get the breathing scene but my whole crew did survive.. I didn't care too much seeing as I had already seen all the endings and the IDT videos on YT.. Still weird though, might have to replay the game to see what that was about.

Yeah I had something odd like that as well. Sort of atleast. I made a Sentinel that was no import at all and when I made it to the Normandy war room. I had 6.7k war assets already. I had the Krogan and Salarians but I haven't even helped the Turians yet. Also I can't do any of the quests. As soon as I scan a fuel in a system it says I have 50% of the assets and when I click the fuel it says I have 100%. I can't get any of the system quest items and only can do quests like the spectre quest with Kasumi or the Batarian investigation. It's just odd. So the EMS can get a bit screwy sometimes.

[Golferguy758]

Can't be in sol system. No planets are inhabitable outside earth and last I checked earth is still lacking that second moon.

I will let someone else talk about how the game can continue if you chose something other than destroy.

[MadRabbit999]

FreedMason wrote...

The biggest plot-hole pre ending--at least for me--is the Crucible. This has probably been mentioned before, but how can Galatic species build a McGuffin superweapon for billions of years without the ultra-effecient Reapers noticing? They built the Mass Relays, and it appears they 'allowed' the races to build this superweapon. Why did the Reapers not locate and destroy the Crucible during the game if it really could kill them? Perhaps it was another Mass Relay trap that allowed their plans to go forth unhindered. Could it have been indoctrinating the workers that were constructing it?

With that logic, how can the reapers not locate and kill shepard immediately, since they will know through radio chatter, he is the one reuiniting the people.

Do not read too much into this, there is a limit between realism, and making a story possible and interesting. If you want to find every single plothole in the whole saga, you could write a book larger than all 3 stories combined, but this does not apply only to ME, every story can be contradicted if you look close enough to it, like in Lord of the Rings... why didn;t the eagles fly and drop the ring? You can come up with all kind of answers and solutions, but a lot of people sees that as a plothole.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 03 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[nightcobra]

BWSocial wrote...

If we are right about the IT (here follows wishful thinking), I think Shep has a good chance to eventually get back into touch with his/her crew in a near future, but only if Shep chose the destroy ending with high enough EMS. 
If the Normandy would be intact enough, some crewmembers might even get back to earth, or, Shep might find their 'distress beacon'. They can't be too far away from earth because they couldn't flee through a mass realay so must be pretty close (relatively heheh) to earth! At least they must be in the Sol system.

What happens after such a reunion I think we might never be told (but we have imagination ), as the only thing we know is that 'stargazer' -whoever he might be- has a lot of stories about 'the Shepard' so his remembrance has been passed on and still lives on in this far-away future. But again, we have our imagination...

if IT is real then that would mean the battle is still raging and shepard wakes up still in london, the normandy and its crew would still be okay and the geth/synthetic life and the relays would still be alright.
and then we'd still have to fight the reapers.

somedays i just like to think that the crucible is actually like a death star cannon kind of weapon that feeds on the energy of the citadel relay, i like big guns and i cannot lie.

[Vahilor]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

FreedMason wrote...

The biggest plot-hole pre ending--at least for me--is the Crucible. This has probably been mentioned before, but how can Galatic species build a McGuffin superweapon for billions of years without the ultra-effecient Reapers noticing? They built the Mass Relays, and it appears they 'allowed' the races to build this superweapon. Why did the Reapers not locate and destroy the Crucible during the game if it really could kill them? Perhaps it was another Mass Relay trap that allowed their plans to go forth unhindered. Could it have been indoctrinating the workers that were constructing it?

With that logic, how can the reapers not locate and kill shepard immediately, since they will know through radio chatter, he is the one reuiniting the people.

Do not read too much int othis, there is a limit between realism, and makign a story interesting.

Probably the Reapers invented the crucible and used it as a bite =). Nobody really know what it is doing.

[MadRabbit999]

Vahilor wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

FreedMason wrote...

The biggest plot-hole pre ending--at least for me--is the Crucible. This has probably been mentioned before, but how can Galatic species build a McGuffin superweapon for billions of years without the ultra-effecient Reapers noticing? They built the Mass Relays, and it appears they 'allowed' the races to build this superweapon. Why did the Reapers not locate and destroy the Crucible during the game if it really could kill them? Perhaps it was another Mass Relay trap that allowed their plans to go forth unhindered. Could it have been indoctrinating the workers that were constructing it?

With that logic, how can the reapers not locate and kill shepard immediately, since they will know through radio chatter, he is the one reuiniting the people.

Do not read too much int othis, there is a limit between realism, and makign a story interesting.

Probably the Reapers invented the crucible and used it as a bite =). Nobody really know what it is doing.

That the reapers were responsable for creating the crucible crossed
my mind the very first time they said "nobody knows who created it
first" so... just like the mass relays?

Crucible could be the ultimate trap for distracting the war and taking resources away from it (AKA the galactic Troll).

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 03 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[Rifneno]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Can't be in sol system. No planets are inhabitable outside earth and last I checked earth is still lacking that second moon.

I will let someone else talk about how the game can continue if you chose something other than destroy.

Fun links are fun.

[Golferguy758]

@rifNeno
Thanks for bringing up my own tweet that I had asked her.

Please note that that I said they can't be in sol system. Because they cannot. Thety would have to be in an uncharted system in local cluster if that treet is correct.

My point is still valid

[Golferguy758]

And continuing on that train of thought if the mass relay is too far to get to I highly doubt they could have gotten out of the system. Ergo we have some fancy terra forming going on the sol system or the normandy clearly hasn't gone any where and it's just shepard's mind

[Blubox]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

FreedMason wrote...

The biggest plot-hole pre ending--at least for me--is the Crucible. This has probably been mentioned before, but how can Galatic species build a McGuffin superweapon for billions of years without the ultra-effecient Reapers noticing? They built the Mass Relays, and it appears they 'allowed' the races to build this superweapon. Why did the Reapers not locate and destroy the Crucible during the game if it really could kill them? Perhaps it was another Mass Relay trap that allowed their plans to go forth unhindered. Could it have been indoctrinating the workers that were constructing it?

With that logic, how can the reapers not locate and kill shepard immediately, since they will know through radio chatter, he is the one reuiniting the people.

Do not read too much int othis, there is a limit between realism, and makign a story interesting.

Probably the Reapers invented the crucible and used it as a bite =). Nobody really know what it is doing.

That the reapers were responsable for creating the crucible crossed
my mind the very first time they said "nobody knows who created it
first" so... just like the mass relays?

Crucible could be the ultimate trap for distracting the war and taking resources away from it (AKA the galactic Troll).

There is reaper tech inside the crucible, there is no way in hell they didnt know about it, they want shepard alive.

[Rifneno]

Golferguy758 wrote...

@rifNeno
Thanks for bringing up my own tweet that I had asked her.

Please note that that I said they can't be in sol system. Because they cannot. Thety would have to be in an uncharted system in local cluster if that treet is correct.

My point is still valid

Uhh yeah.  I know, because it was my point too.  There's literally no way that the crash scene could've happened outside Shepard's head if they couldn't have made it to the Charon relay, and JM confirmed for us that they didn't.

[Golferguy758]

@rifneno
My apologies for sounding abrasive. Re read it and realized how it could be misconstrued!

Thank you for bringing up the tweet. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was snapping at you. *brofist*

[BWSocial]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Can't be in sol system. No planets are inhabitable outside earth and last I checked earth is still lacking that second moon.

I will let someone else talk about how the game can continue if you chose something other than destroy.

Ooops, thanks for correcting 'Sol system' into 'Local Cluster', that's what I meant actually. Without the use of mass relays we cannot travel any further than Local cluster yes.