57139 réponses à ce sujet

[llbountyhunter]

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

Would I like the ending to be the indoctrination theory with more story to come after shepard wakes up? Yes!

Do I think the indoctrination theory holds water? Yes!

Do I "actually" believe the indoctrination theory is what Bioware intended? Not a chance

Because:

1) Bioware has never been that clever in their story telling; its always been very straight forward character based story telling with very little interpretation. I honestly can't believe their writers had the skill to plant that many clues.

2) its caused them even more hassle and brand damage than any “clever” ending is worth.

3) all of their replies and responses since everything blew up has been counter to if the indoctrination theory is true. Their behaviour would have been different and less “damaging”. The artistic integrity card for example; which is used incorrectly and ignorantly by Bioware.

4) It would mean Bioware sold an incomplete game; even if the ending DLC was free there would be a huge proportion of people who could never experience the actual ending. So it doesnt make sense to do a trick ending to be resolved by DLC later.

However the final nail in the coffin of indoctrination theory will be PAX. The only way I believe it's true is if they show polished footage of the final ending clearly demonstrating in was indoctrination. That way we know they planned it all along as they wouldn't have had time to produce the content that quickly after the fact.  and by polished I mean actual in game cut-scenes with the original voice actors throughout, not just shepard.

This is why I don't believe indoctrination theory; I think indoctrination theorists just got lucky with how bioware chose to represent certain moments and choices of dialogue which allowed us to connect so many points making it appear genuine... Sometimes Chaos can have truely compelling and seemingly real patterns of logic which actually don't mean anything at all..

i disagree, they said they wanted players to finish the game, and its been noted before that there strategy involves a high risk- high payoff technique, because ifit works the losses will be tiny compared to the gains.

[DocJill]

For those of you who do not believe in Indoc theory, answer just one question:

If you pick destroy and "Shepard lives," where is his body when he wakes up?

It cannot be on the citadel, because we see explosions on the arms of the citadel after the crucible fires. The citadel is presumably being destroyed, just like the mass relays are. So you mean to tell me that Shepard survived re-entry into Earth's atmosphere after the citadel was blown from orbit? This, coupled with other evidence already discussed, pretty much convinces me the ending was some type of dream.

And yes a possible answer to this question is crappy writing, but until proven otherwise I refuse to believe that someone could write an ending with so many obnoxious plot holes.

[Eshaye]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

I think this sums it up:

http://t3.gstatic.co...H1V_sZaP2CjQ5mK

 Holy crap you didn't pull a He-Man... lol

[llbountyhunter]

DocJill wrote...

For those of you who do not believe in Indoc theory, answer just one question:

If you pick destroy and "Shepard lives," where is his body when he wakes up?

It cannot be on the citadel, because we see explosions on the arms of the citadel after the crucible fires. The citadel is presumably being destroyed, just like the mass relays are. So you mean to tell me that Shepard survived re-entry into Earth's atmosphere after the citadel was blown from orbit? This, coupled with other evidence already discussed, pretty much convinces me the ending was some type of dream.

And yes a possible answer to this question is crappy writing, but until proven otherwise I refuse to believe that someone could write an ending with so many obnoxious plot holes.

irrevelent, apparently.

[njfluffy19]

Oh, the other two points have been addressed multiple times. Sure, they could have caused 'brand damage' but if this turns out to be the truth, in the long run it could go down as one of the best endings in gaming.

The whole 'artistic integrity' bs was mostly said by all the journalists with their heads up EA and BW's buttholes. Yeah, sure, the CEO or w/e mentioned it too, but he also mentioned they are listening to the fans and the ending they distribute will contain more closure.

[Dwailing]

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

Yeah, that was the first major twist I ever encountered in a game.  It was incredible.

[RiGoRmOrTiS_UK]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

and yet for some reason his great intellect fails to notice any ID, which was almost rubbed in our faces, hmm....  

nice condescending attitude; if you don't want to discuss both sides that’s fine; I won't.

indoctrination did cross my mind during the starchild scene after what happened with TIM; however I didn't believe the ending was indoctrination due to the way the rest of the ending was paced and structured along with all the other points I made in my original post.

If people are not going
to be receptive to both sides of the discussions I'm happy to stop  

so carry on by all means; I'll not interrupt.

llbountyhunter wrote...

i disagree, they said they wanted
players to finish the game, and its been noted before that there
strategy involves a high risk- high payoff technique, because ifit works
the losses will be tiny compared to the gains.

Certainly hope your right! But I'll reserve final judgement until PAX

Modifié par RiGoRmOrTiS_UK, 03 avril 2012 - 11:37 .

[njfluffy19]

Dwailing wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

Yeah, that was the first major twist I ever encountered in a game.  It was incredible.

And what about Baldur's Gate? You discover you're a Bhaalspawn. I mean there's always been some sort of neat plot device. Nothing is ever as it seems in the beginning.

[llbountyhunter]

all four of his points have already been addressed..... the unstoppable begins once more.

[Eshaye]

Dwailing wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

Yeah, that was the first major twist I ever encountered in a game.  It was incredible.

I got up from my chair, walked a bit away from the PC desk and went " HOLY SH*T". My husband who was nearby just stared at me uncomprehendingly. lol.

[monrapias]

For you who goes to school

[llbountyhunter]

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

and yet for some reason his great intellect fails to notice any ID, which was almost rubbed in our faces, hmm....  

nice condescending attitude; if you don't want to discuss both sides that’s fine; I won't.

indoctrination did cross my mind during the starchild scene after what happened with TIM; however I didn't believe the ending was indoctrination due to the way the rest of the ending was paced and structured along with all the other points I made in my original post.

If people are not going
to be receptive to both sides of the discussions I'm happy to stop  

so carry on by all means; I'll not interrupt.

sorry, its just that your points have already been brought up countless time.... 

[Dwailing]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

Yeah, that was the first major twist I ever encountered in a game.  It was incredible.

And what about Baldur's Gate? You discover you're a Bhaalspawn. I mean there's always been some sort of neat plot device. Nothing is ever as it seems in the beginning.

Or in Mass Effect 1 with the Sovereign reveal, the Conduit reveal, the Citadel reveal, etc.  Or Mass Effect 2 with the Collectors being Prothean and the Human Reaper twist.  I've said this before and I'll say it again, Bioware has made a career out of major plot twists, this is just their greatest one EVER, of all time. 

[njfluffy19]

Bioware make gud games, ALRITE???

Edit: I never played the Dragon Age franchise.

Modifié par njfluffy19, 03 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[Dwailing]

Eshaye wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

Yeah, that was the first major twist I ever encountered in a game.  It was incredible.

I got up from my chair, walked a bit away from the PC desk and went " HOLY SH*T". My husband who was nearby just stared at me uncomprehendingly. lol.

It wasn't QUITE that major of a reaction for me (I'm pretty sure I stayed in my seat, lol), but I was pretty shocked.  That was a true Holy Crap moment if ever there was one.

[DocJill]

benben84 wrote...

Something else I just thought of, a tad off topic but it's about the Citadel.. The keepers repair the Citadel constantly and the Counsel races do not know where they get their materials from. I sat and thought about this for awhile and remembered hearing about the protein vats. Now that intrigued me, wtf are protein vats needed for by the Keepers? Then it hit me...maybe the keepers are using the protein vats to continue to build material for the Citadel the same way the human reaper was being built!

Here's a clip from wiki about the vats:
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Wards
"Emily Wong, a reporter for the Citadel NewsNet, reports that Danaria Keris, a sanitation worker working in the ward, had failed to report when her shift ended. Her assignment was near the Keepers area of the ward, and the authorities fear she may have been transported to the protein vats for recycling. Later, Wong announces her body was found, and C-Sec suspects foul play."

I find that hypothesis interesting.  Where is it mentioned that the council races don't know where the materials come from?  Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that part.  I just remember that the Keepers constantly repair everything -- resources for these repairs were not mentioned.  I could be wrong though.  

[Dwailing]

Eshaye wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

EDIT: (for replies posted while I was typing this) There was nothing subtle about the twists in KOTOR and Jade Empire (as much as I loved those stories).

Oh really? I bow to your superior intellect and powers of deduction to have had any clue who Revan was and that master of yours. Because that floored a lot of us at the time.

*roll eyes*

Yeah, that was the first major twist I ever encountered in a game.  It was incredible.

I got up from my chair, walked a bit away from the PC desk and went " HOLY SH*T". My husband who was nearby just stared at me uncomprehendingly. lol.

Gah, Double Post.

Modifié par Dwailing, 03 avril 2012 - 11:45 .

[RxP4IN]

Seriously, what's up with all the hate towards rigormortis?

I just jumped in this thread to see if there was any productive discussion happening, but as soon as someone (rigormortis) tries to challenge opinions (if not to strengthen IT by questioning it), everyone in here goes berserk!

I hope IT is true, but sometimes those who are utterly convinced tend to gang-up on those who try to reveal the holes in the theory--again, if not only to strengthen it. Makes me kind of wish IT isn't true, so that IT-purists hating on others get crushed.

Even if the counter-arguments have been brought up before, it's unreasonable for everyone to stay up to date with a 1100 page thread.

[llbountyhunter]

RxP4IN wrote...

Seriously, what's up with all the hate towards rigormortis?

I just jumped in this thread to see if there was any productive discussion happening, but as soon as someone (rigormortis) tries to challenge opinions (if not to strengthen IT by questioning it), everyone in here goes berserk!

I hope IT is true, but sometimes those who are utterly convinced tend to gang-up on those who try to reveal the holes in the theory--again, if not only to strengthen it. Makes me kind of wish IT isn't true, so that IT-purists hating on others get crushed.

Even if the counter-arguments have been brought up before, it's unreasonable for everyone to stay up to date with a 1100 page thread.

oh, its all just friendly banter...

[Dwailing]

DocJill wrote...

benben84 wrote...

Something else I just thought of, a tad off topic but it's about the Citadel.. The keepers repair the Citadel constantly and the Counsel races do not know where they get their materials from. I sat and thought about this for awhile and remembered hearing about the protein vats. Now that intrigued me, wtf are protein vats needed for by the Keepers? Then it hit me...maybe the keepers are using the protein vats to continue to build material for the Citadel the same way the human reaper was being built!

Here's a clip from wiki about the vats:
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Wards
"Emily Wong, a reporter for the Citadel NewsNet, reports that Danaria Keris, a sanitation worker working in the ward, had failed to report when her shift ended. Her assignment was near the Keepers area of the ward, and the authorities fear she may have been transported to the protein vats for recycling. Later, Wong announces her body was found, and C-Sec suspects foul play."

I find that hypothesis interesting.  Where is it mentioned that the council races don't know where the materials come from?  Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that part.  I just remember that the Keepers constantly repair everything -- resources for these repairs were not mentioned.  I could be wrong though.  

I think Anderson says it when you talk to him on the Citadel in ME2.

[Hacedor1566]

C'mon, people, please

http://lh5.ggpht.com/carlos57775/SCobc6EL_hI/AAAAAAAABys/RG0y66Z3ZDY/s288/Don't%20feed%20the%20troll.jpg

[njfluffy19]

RxP4IN wrote...

Seriously, what's up with all the hate towards rigormortis?

I just jumped in this thread to see if there was any productive discussion happening, but as soon as someone (rigormortis) tries to challenge opinions (if not to strengthen IT by questioning it), everyone in here goes berserk!

I hope IT is true, but sometimes those who are utterly convinced tend to gang-up on those who try to reveal the holes in the theory--again, if not only to strengthen it. Makes me kind of wish IT isn't true, so that IT-purists hating on others get crushed.

Even if the counter-arguments have been brought up before, it's unreasonable for everyone to stay up to date with a 1100 page thread.

No one was hating on him...

At least not from my viewpoint. Things started getting a little heated when he said, "Can't you see the names under my avatar?" He's trying to tell people Bioware aren't 'clever' writers when in all of their games there has always been a surprising, and imo good, twist.

[monrapias]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Bioware make gud games, ALRITE???

Edit: I never played the Dragon Age franchise.

You should try Dragon age origin,  just don't bother with DA2

[Dwailing]

llbountyhunter wrote...

RxP4IN wrote...

Seriously, what's up with all the hate towards rigormortis?

I just jumped in this thread to see if there was any productive discussion happening, but as soon as someone (rigormortis) tries to challenge opinions (if not to strengthen IT by questioning it), everyone in here goes berserk!

I hope IT is true, but sometimes those who are utterly convinced tend to gang-up on those who try to reveal the holes in the theory--again, if not only to strengthen it. Makes me kind of wish IT isn't true, so that IT-purists hating on others get crushed.

Even if the counter-arguments have been brought up before, it's unreasonable for everyone to stay up to date with a 1100 page thread.

oh, its all just friendly banter...

Yeah, we're just one big, happy, argumentative family.