57139 réponses à ce sujet

[txgriff]

So I was just doing a playthrough and decided to read the codex on indoctrination, everything it says seems to be happening to Shepard. It talks about seeing ghostly images which you see in your dreams, it also talks about how you are presented with options that are the opposite of what you would choose, which is evident in the ending, how shooting the Illusive Man is renegade and choosing to destroy the reapers is red also. Also I mentioned this in another thread, but when you first encounter the child and Anderson takes your attention away from him you hear a growling sound, which was explained in Retribution as when Greyson resisted the reapers they made a noise similar to that. The only other time I remember hearing that noise was in the ending when you are confronted by the Illusive Man.

[BlackDragonBane]

Ellestor wrote...

k8ee wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

I don't understand this common misconception that you destroy most technology.

The Catalyst outright says that it does.

No I'm pretty sure it destroys synthetic life...

 Here, I made this for you.

k8ee wrote... 

which
is BS because how could the crucible know exactly what to kill over an
entire galaxy

That's exactly what my problem would be with it
destroying only the Reapers. Destroying all synthetic life and most
technology in order to destroy the Reapers makes much more sense.

I don't believe that to be entirely true. Geth are not  Reaper creation, they were just implanted with Reaper coding to convert them to heretics, meaning that if you liberated the Geth, they should be unaffected by anything destructive to the Reapers short of being blown up by a bomb or something. Though the origins of the Crucible are unclear, it's quite possible it was designed by the same people who created the Reapers as a fail-safe device for when the solution stopped working.

Catalyst even says it himself to Shepard that by being the first organic to make it that far, to connect the Crucible to the Citadel means that the solution has finally failed an the Reapers need to be destroyed. I honestly don't believe you can put much stock into what Catalyst says from that point onward because he tries to mislead you from destruction of the Reapers to keeping them alive and either controlling them or synthesizing synthetics and organics into a new 'ascended' life form like the Reapers.

The Crucible's true intentions could be that it destroys or permanently disables all technology based on Reaper design. So it wouldn't neccessarily destroy all synthetic life or tech, but a VAST majority of it.

Look at me, grasping at random thermal clips again.

Modifié par BlackDragonBane, 12 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Yeah. The way I read this is as being another clue that BioWare is flinging at us, asking us to be cognizant of the fact that the sequence is not rooted in reality.

Yeah, that too. I figured BW cut the bit about Shepard having a family because they wanted to avoid receiving a gajillion letters from hardcore fans who Completely Missed the Point and demanded to know by god! why they committed such an egregious, intolerable continuity error and ruined the franchise forever.

I'm a Trekkie and a Star Wars fan, a con-goer, and of anyone I know how just plain stupid hardcore fans can get about continuity errors. I've been hearing "how did Khan know who Pavel Chekov is when he wasn't even stationed on the Enterprise until 2267, when Space Seed happened in 2266?" my entire goddamn life.

Modifié par humes spork, 12 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[byne]

One thing I was wondering. SpaceGodKid seems to think Destroy is the worst possible option. If I remember correctly, he even implies it wont really work, and synthetics and organics will just go to war again in the future.

The thing is, if the people who put all of this into motion actually thought destroy was a completely invalid choice, why would they have put the option to do so there in the first place?

It only really makes sense if Destroy is Shepard's final chance to break free of indoctrination.

[lookingglassmind]

Hey, littleork.

[Sierra163]

Hellfire257 wrote...

 

Auresta wrote...

Hellfire257 wrote...

Bakara did dig herself out of a cave with a crystal, right? I can't remember! It has to be a metaphor or foreshadowing otherwise the dialog would be pointless. She also becomes a figurehead for her people and a symbol of hope. 

There's a lot of similarities here and I'm willing to bet that we'll only find more, and this whole thing has been staring us in the face the whole time.

When I was doing my playthrough, I already knew about the endings (never watched them) and read up on other spoilers to prepare myself. This was one of the quotes that made me cry because it seemed like no matter what anyone said, it wasn't true. There were a lot of moments like these in the game and I don't want to believe that they were just pushing us towards disappointment and failure.

There has to be something. Why do all this for nothing? There's too many unknown variables here for what we have now to be final. There's too many variables that are ambigious in nature as well. I can't think why BioWare would leave so many breadcrumbs to follow if there is no other ending.

It again comes back to them being either incredibly stupid or incredibly amazing. Only time will tell.

Regarding the colours, you may be right. The ambient light was as bright as you would expect, but the effects of this light casting on surfaces was diminished. I don't know how to describe it well, but the background was bright but everything from midground to foreground was dark and shady - unnatural.

But then again, this part could simply be artistic license. You only need to look at BF3's crazy lighting to wonder what the hell is going on.

Bakara also said that at first she dug in the wrong direction, but doing so gave he the means to survive. And didn't she give the chisel to Shep'? Maybe s/he uses it to help get out of the rubble at the end?

[k8ee]

littleork wrote...

BigBossBoo wrote...

 I keep hearing about this 1m1 ship theory, but I can not find anything about what 1m1 is.  Can someone elaborate for me?

M=13th letter in alphabet

1+13+1=15, march 15th is asian release of the game,

And that this will be when BW releases the rest of the ending

[Eumerin]

txgriff wrote...

how shooting the Illusive Man is renegade

Shooting the Illusive Man as a Renegade Interrupt just brings that interrupt into line with the other interrupts that involve killing people who richly deserve death (and in at least one case, saving the life of someone else in the process).

i.e. that's not the Reapers messing with your head.  That's what Bioware has already established.

[Ecmoose]

Ellestor wrote...

k8ee wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

I don't understand this common misconception that you destroy most technology.

The Catalyst outright says that it does.

No I'm pretty sure it destroys synthetic life...

 Here, I made this for you.

k8ee wrote... 

which is BS because how could the crucible know exactly what to kill over an entire galaxy

That's exactly what my problem would be with it destroying only the Reapers. Destroying all synthetic life and most technology in order to destroy the Reapers makes much more sense.

Okay, well I'll stop arguing with those people then who say all tech is destroyed, but God Child does not say that in every ending. I've beaten the game twice and he did not say it either time.

I wonder what the parameters are that you have to meet to alter that, because it seems like a fairly big distinction.

[lex0r11]

something that just crossed my mind:

the female and male background voices of the catalyst.. are those the fem and malesheps voices speaking??!

woooooooooot
youtu.be/yAHUKHAGzqw#t=02m30s

Modifié par lex0r11, 12 mars 2012 - 01:14 .

[littleork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Hey, littleork.

Hey hey, just checking in, playing my renegade, one step at a time, im trying to pay attention to every little details I can. Boy i remember when this thread had 7 pages xD, any new big things went out? probably missed the last 20 pages . I did read that other thread about all the dialog that was *cut out* (joker dialogs) stuff like that and pfft i really dont see how it would be gone from the game, its just hidden obviously, I think everything is there, they will just do an update that will unlock the rest. No dlc to pay, just unlock, dlc will be extra cool stories until shep dies or retires somewhere

[Hellfire257]

It isn't a 100% given that synthetics will destroy organics though. The Geth are the proof of this. They acted in self-defence and once the Quarians left them alone, they kept themselves to themselves until Sovereign showed up with The Heretics. The destroy ending is a big risk, and I took it knowing the consequences because I hoped that after the war's devastating effects, people might take note and listen.

Anyway, if I was Shepard, I'd have just hit Harbinger with a paradox. No AI can resist paradoxes!

"This statement...is...false!"

[Sharrack]

Ecmoose wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

k8ee wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

I don't understand this common misconception that you destroy most technology.

The Catalyst outright says that it does.

No I'm pretty sure it destroys synthetic life...

 Here, I made this for you.

k8ee wrote... 

which is BS because how could the crucible know exactly what to kill over an entire galaxy

That's exactly what my problem would be with it destroying only the Reapers. Destroying all synthetic life and most technology in order to destroy the Reapers makes much more sense.

Okay, well I'll stop arguing with those people then who say all tech is destroyed, but God Child does not say that in every ending. I've beaten the game twice and he did not say it either time.

I wonder what the parameters are that you have to meet to alter that, because it seems like a fairly big distinction.

Some one would have to check this, but is it possible that destruction becomes more and more disagreeable depending on your EMS,

[kyrieee]

Big question:
If Shepard is fighting indoctrination, then obviously Harbinger knows that Shepard is alive. Why not just fire the laser again and finish the job, instead of risking Shepard breaking free?

Modifié par kyrieee, 12 mars 2012 - 01:17 .

[Lugaidster]

Whoa, just woke up. Left in page 75 and now we're in page 115 :S a whole lot of pages to catch up. Any new findings?

[lookingglassmind]

littleork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Hey, littleork.

Hey hey, just checking in, playing my renegade, one step at a time, im trying to pay attention to every little details I can. Boy i remember when this thread had 7 pages xD, any new big things went out? probably missed the last 20 pages . I did read that other thread about all the dialog that was *cut out* (joker dialogs) stuff like that and pfft i really dont see how it would be gone from the game, its just hidden obviously, I think everything is there, they will just do an update that will unlock the rest. No dlc to pay, just unlock, dlc will be extra cool stories until shep dies or retires somewhere

Not really. The inflation of the thread, I think, is mainly attributed to an increased readership/people buying into the theories. We've had a lot of newcomers, with a lot of the original observations being restated (which is great, as it means more and more people are seeing things the way we have seen them), but nothing terribly new since last night.

I think that this is the direction this thread is going to go, attracting new readership, until BioWare issues DLC.

[byne]

Hellfire257 wrote...

It isn't a 100% given that synthetics will destroy organics though. The Geth are the proof of this. They acted in self-defence and once the Quarians left them alone, they kept themselves to themselves until Sovereign showed up with The Heretics. The destroy ending is a big risk, and I took it knowing the consequences because I hoped that after the war's devastating effects, people might take note and listen.

Anyway, if I was Shepard, I'd have just hit Harbinger with a paradox. No AI can resist paradoxes!

"This statement...is...false!"

Harbinger was built with paradox absorbing crumple zones.

[littleork]

kyrieee wrote...

Big question:
If Shepard is fighting indoctrination, then obviously Harbinger know's that Shepard is alive. Why not just fire the laser again and finish the job, instead of risking Shepard breaking free?

Because they think we are weak and cant resist . At least it was always the feeling I had. Didnt sovereign said that in virmire? *you cannot resist*

[lookingglassmind]

Wait, there was this. Someone sent this thread to Mass Effect's twitter. And this was the response:

http://twitter.com/#...880979274960897

[Arlind Webb]

This makes sense to me! Great work Kitten!

Kitten Tactics wrote...

I have compiled some of the evidence here. What's missing/wrong?

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

[Hellfire257]

Bakara also said that at first she dug in the wrong direction, but doing so gave he the means to survive. And didn't she give the chisel to Shep'? Maybe s/he uses it to help get out of the rubble at the end?

That would be the logical conclusion, yes. Like I said, too much is similar for this to be a dead lead. Because she did survive, there is hope and a future for her people, just like the scenario Shepard is in.

[Ecmoose]

Sharrack wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

k8ee wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

I don't understand this common misconception that you destroy most technology.

The Catalyst outright says that it does.

No I'm pretty sure it destroys synthetic life...

 Here, I made this for you.

k8ee wrote... 

which is BS because how could the crucible know exactly what to kill over an entire galaxy

That's exactly what my problem would be with it destroying only the Reapers. Destroying all synthetic life and most technology in order to destroy the Reapers makes much more sense.

Okay, well I'll stop arguing with those people then who say all tech is destroyed, but God Child does not say that in every ending. I've beaten the game twice and he did not say it either time.

I wonder what the parameters are that you have to meet to alter that, because it seems like a fairly big distinction.

Some one would have to check this, but is it possible that destruction becomes more and more disagreeable depending on your EMS,

That's a good question but it wouldn't make sense for me. In my first playthrough I had over 5000 ems, in my second I had 4800.

Those are good EMSes.

Ellestor what was your EMS when God Child said "most of the technology you rely one"?

[Invisibilly]

 Whats all this about joker dialogue? Anyone have a link?

[Kabraxal]

kyrieee wrote...

Big question:
If Shepard is fighting indoctrination, then obviously Harbinger knows that Shepard is alive. Why not just fire the laser again and finish the job, instead of risking Shepard breaking free?

Bigger question:

Why would Harbinger simply fly off adn not make sure no one makes it through?  I mean, he missed both Anderson and Shepard if you are to believe the end is reality and not indoctrination.  Talk about royally screwing up...

[littleork]

Gam3Ov3r wrote...

 Whats all this about joker dialogue? Anyone have a link?

http://social.biowar...index/9787569/4

There you go