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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#29001
Guest_mayrabgood_*

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LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

manjikengo wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

If anyone has not seen


http://www.youtube.c...g5xltLkk#t=291s


mind = blow


THIS, HOLY ****!


Didn't they also say the endings wouldn't be like LOST/A,B,C and yet what do the current endings look like.



The current endings look like that....the real ending is still yet to come....hopefully.

That video...wow!

#29002
balance5050

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DuskRose wrote...

manjikengo wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

If anyone has not seen


http://www.youtube.c...g5xltLkk#t=291s


mind = blow


THIS, HOLY ****!


What. the.. what.


WOW! thats all I can say.

#29003
FTI45

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balance5050 wrote...

DuskRose wrote...

manjikengo wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

If anyone has not seen


http://www.youtube.c...g5xltLkk#t=291s


mind = blow


THIS, HOLY ****!


What. the.. what.


WOW! thats all I can say.


This was taken in 2011.... They planned it all along. Hopefully  =]

#29004
clennon8

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I don't get what the big deal is about with that video.

#29005
Guest_mayrabgood_*

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clennon8 wrote...

I don't get what the big deal is about with that video.


That part where the guy says that the ending might not be put on the disc...

#29006
clennon8

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mayrabgood wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I don't get what the big deal is about with that video.


That part where the guy says that the ending might not be put on the disc...


Well, not to burst any bubbles, but I'm pretty sure he says "I can tell you the end of the game will be on the disk."  Not "I can't tell you..."

#29007
ubermensch007

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clennon8 wrote...

I don't get what the big deal is about with that video.


Yeah, neither do I. I could barely understand what he was saying, with all background noise getting in the way <_<

Modifié par ubermensch007, 04 avril 2012 - 05:08 .


#29008
Leonia

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I remember discussing that comment from ComicCon ages ago when it happened and there was much debate over what was said but my question is... why is he even mentioning the ending and whether it's on the disc or not? Maybe it's just an off-hand remark about how DLC will expand on the ending in a similar way to LotSB and Arrival addng on to ME2. At that point in time, the final discs wouldn't have been made anyway. Regardless, it's still slightly off-topic and there are heaps of threads speculating on what it may or may not mean, just keep in mind how long ago it was said. We've seen things change before, such as the leaked script.

Modifié par leonia42, 04 avril 2012 - 05:10 .


#29009
balance5050

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clennon8 wrote...

mayrabgood wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I don't get what the big deal is about with that video.


That part where the guy says that the ending might not be put on the disc...


Well, not to burst any bubbles, but I'm pretty sure he says "I can tell you the end of the game will be on the disk."  Not "I can't tell you..."


Yeah but then it just sounds weird like he's hinting at something "I CAN tell you the ending WILL BE on the disc."

strange either way.

#29010
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@clennon No worries. No burst bubble here. But yeah, now I can't tell if he's saying can or can't. Oh well, April 6 will soon be here and maybe all this speculation can end.

Modifié par mayrabgood, 04 avril 2012 - 05:13 .


#29011
DirtyPhoenix

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Shepard, I've got a question. What is the LegendSave.pcsav file that I see in my folder after i finished the game? Is it the invisible savegame we get after finishing the game?

Modifié par pirate1802, 04 avril 2012 - 05:14 .


#29012
jakal66

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He's clearly saying can,also he emphasizes on the "will be" on the disc...still he's talking about how it(dlc) will fit with the ending...so...more speculations...

On another note I've been seeing a lot of tweets saying the didn't specify when they will be talking about dlc content...I think we may have to wait longer than pax...if that is the case, it would be another BIOBLUNDER in the sorry story of this Never "ending" story:sick:

Modifié par jakal66, 04 avril 2012 - 05:16 .


#29013
RorickHuon

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jakal66 wrote...

He's clearly saying can,also he emphasizes on the "will be" on the disc...still he's talking about how it(dlc) will fit with the ending...so...more speculations...

On another note I've been seeing a lot of tweets saying the didn't specify when they will be talking about dlc content...I think we may have to wait longer than pax...if that is the case, it would be another BIOBLUNDER in the sorry story of this Never "ending" story:sick:

To be honest if they don't make a detailed announcment at PAX then I am just going to say **** it and not play ME until they do. I might even just stop all together. I love It and I want them to announce it. But I don't want to lurk here expecting an announcement or leak and getting nothing but dissapointment ;.;

#29014
ForceXev

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I think a transcription of that interview will help...  here's what I got:

Question:
"Can you delve into any details about downloadable content?"

Answer from Mass Effect 3 Producer Jesse Houston:
"For the DLC aspects of the game, I can't really get into the specifics because we are still focused on just getting the game out.  But that said, the fans tend to want more content, and we like delivering it to them.  We will probably have some DLC in there.  The size and scope is still to be determined.  A lot of it is going to be based on feedback from the fans [:lol:]... and as far as where that DLC sits -- with each Mass Effect game, there's a slightly different story structure.  The first game was all about the hero's journey, the second was kinda the "dirty dozen" story, and this one is more of a war story.  In that context, the DLC will make great sense.  I can tell you that the end of the game will be on the disk, but in that context, given that there's a different... um... the way that we're structuring the story is pretty different, it will make good sense why the DLC plugs in where it does."

So what the hell does that mean?

Well, it's nothing world shattering here, and in typical interview fashion he says a lot of words without really saying anything, but it kinda sounds like he's hinting at DLC that "plugs in" at the end of the story.

#29015
Dendio1

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mayrabgood wrote...

@clennon No worries. No burst bubble here. But yeah, now I can't tell if he's saying can or can't. Oh well, April 6 will soon be here and maybe all this speculation can end.


This is true...lol...even catch a guy on tape and we cant get a clear answer.

Well its time to put my money on the table. Im all in on Indoctrination Theory come friday.

#29016
Kabraxal

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Replaying the ending on another run... aside from the weird ringing sound, there is an odd distortion in the background. I turned it up on my headphones and I'm still a bit lost on what it is. Sounds a bit like electrical static at some points then whispers at another...

Also... aside from the jarring tranisition, is it odd to anyone else of that line that happens in between the beeam hit and before you see shepard again? It seemed... odd and a bit out of nowhere. Also, who the hell was it that spoke?

#29017
ChuckieJ

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ubermensch007 wrote...

Has anyone else noticed that Commander Shepard can walk through the Keepers on the Citadel like they are holograms at the end part.I do not believe that this is a design oversight.Shep can't walk through the keepers at any other part of the game.

So you have the Hand Canon having Infinite Ammo, Holographic Keepers, Admiral Anderson acting like an enthusiastic kid wanting to explore his enviroment.Going on ahead, instead of waiting for Shep to back him up. And the Illusive Man appearing out of nowhere.I don't know.Maybe he had an Infiltration Cloak on or something.But there are many things during the last ten or so minutes of the game, that indicate that things may not be as they appear.

I don't know if Shepard was being Indoctrinated or if he was having an hallucination.But even if you decide to take everything that happens at face value.There are many reasons to be very circumspect, when it comes to the starchild.

Consider what we have seen... Very early in the adventure, Shepard discovers that EDI can lie and has deceived organics on several occasions.Later on, we learn that even Legion wasn't all that honest with Shep, once or twice.Baring this all in mind-- why should any of us just take what the Citadel AI (or whatever Godboy is) says as truth and fact?

You don't have to agree with IT, but the Starchild is far from a trustworthy source of intel.Look at the sinster way he smiles if you chose the "Control" option.I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare reveals that Project Crucible was a Reaper Trojan Horse.All the signs are there.

Think about it.How is it remotely possible for the Reapers to have not known about a device designed to end them, that has been in development for multiple extinction cycles. Somehow, the next race in line for Reaperization, just happens to find these plans, and keep the Reapers in the dark about it.

For crying out loud.Weren't the Reapers landing on or near the Prothean Archives on Mars, right when Shep was leaving?


I could not agree more with this. I never understood that saying so...

I TOTALLY AGREE!! 

I've never claimed that I figured it out or anything. But I know for sure that after getting to that point and listening to the StarChild I realized he had not done anything to earn my trust. :bandit:

#29018
ChuckieJ

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ForceXev wrote...

I think a transcription of that interview will help...  here's what I got:

Question:
"Can you delve into any details about downloadable content?"

Answer from Mass Effect 3 Producer Jesse Houston:
"For the DLC aspects of the game, I can't really get into the specifics because we are still focused on just getting the game out.  But that said, the fans tend to want more content, and we like delivering it to them.  We will probably have some DLC in there.  The size and scope is still to be determined.  A lot of it is going to be based on feedback from the fans [:lol:]... and as far as where that DLC sits -- with each Mass Effect game, there's a slightly different story structure.  The first game was all about the hero's journey, the second was kinda the "dirty dozen" story, and this one is more of a war story.  In that context, the DLC will make great sense.  I can tell you that the end of the game will be on the disk, but in that context, given that there's a different... um... the way that we're structuring the story is pretty different, it will make good sense why the DLC plugs in where it does."

So what the hell does that mean?

Well, it's nothing world shattering here, and in typical interview fashion he says a lot of words without really saying anything, but it kinda sounds like he's hinting at DLC that "plugs in" at the end of the story.


And also that it might have been on the disk all long. Can you link us to this interview? I can't find it.

EDIT: I think this is it. 

Modifié par ChuckieJ, 04 avril 2012 - 05:51 .


#29019
Kabraxal

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Hmm... replaying the beginning with a new character. If it is IT, I wonder if it starts in earnest right after the courtroom is hit by the beam. It would match the end run and would make a sort of sense: a reaper blast kickstarts the process and a reaper blast is the final push.

#29020
Earthborn_Shepard

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Aaand here I am again! What time is it where you all are? :D

Any news over the night? Guess not...

#29021
Spiderman_2028

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Re: the 2011 comic-con video. Anytime I think about him saying "where it plugs in", I think about the game taking you back to the Cerberus Base mission. Strikes me that's the most likely plug-in point, assuming they stuck with whatever plans they had at that point. There's also a lengthy video including extensive gameplay from comic-con, which was essentially the latter half of the Sur'Kesh mission. Can't say much changed between that footage from Comic-Con and what I played in the demo/final release.

With regards to DLC... What if it's a season-pass they are announcing? Eg- Every month, you get a bit more of the 'war' to play..l

Maybe every month there is an N7 mission (to unlock the new MP gear) and a new mission to play through and/or squad mate to acquire. More war assets, higher EMS, more confrontations with Reapers... Has no bearing on making sense of the endings, I know... But seems like it could be a model they'd use.

But man... Would people be p!$$ed.

Also- I finished the game. Twice so far. Last run, Shep took a breath. But I got an 'ending'.
If its all over, or 'an end for all time'... Why does my Galactic Readiness continue to fluctuate? And why is there no mention of the assault on Earth in the alliance news network blogs (which I love reading), the datapad app, ME Infiltrator... Which are all linked via Origin? Why does 'Admiral Hackett' continue to brief his 'troops' for N7 weekends...? Why bother using that device to pimp multiplayer?

My Theory = coz the 'endings' I saw never happened (iT or something similar), the battle on Earth and across the ME Universe rages on, and my Shep is laying in rubble waiting to brush himself off, pick up his Revenant and shoot the crap out of anything that looks husky...

#29022
Raistlin Majare 1992

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Aaand here I am again! What time is it where you all are? :D

Any news over the night? Guess not...


16:30 here in Japan where I currently am...been keeping myself up to date through the use of whatever free wifi connection I can find.

As for anything new, I havent seen anything big. Everyone still holding their breaths for the 6.

#29023
ubermensch007

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ChuckieJ wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

Has anyone else noticed that Commander Shepard can walk through the Keepers on the Citadel like they are holograms at the end part.I do not believe that this is a design oversight.Shep can't walk through the keepers at any other part of the game.

So you have the Hand Canon having Infinite Ammo, Holographic Keepers, Admiral Anderson acting like an enthusiastic kid wanting to explore his enviroment.Going on ahead, instead of waiting for Shep to back him up. And the Illusive Man appearing out of nowhere.I don't know.Maybe he had an Infiltration Cloak on or something.But there are many things during the last ten or so minutes of the game, that indicate that things may not be as they appear.

I don't know if Shepard was being Indoctrinated or if he was having an hallucination.But even if you decide to take everything that happens at face value.There are many reasons to be very circumspect, when it comes to the starchild.

Consider what we have seen... Very early in the adventure, Shepard discovers that EDI can lie and has deceived organics on several occasions.Later on, we learn that even Legion wasn't all that honest with Shep, once or twice.Baring this all in mind-- why should any of us just take what the Citadel AI (or whatever Godboy is) says as truth and fact?

You don't have to agree with IT, but the Starchild is far from a trustworthy source of intel.Look at the sinster way he smiles if you chose the "Control" option.I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare reveals that Project Crucible was a Reaper Trojan Horse.All the signs are there.

Think about it.How is it remotely possible for the Reapers to have not known about a device designed to end them, that has been in development for multiple extinction cycles. Somehow, the next race in line for Reaperization, just happens to find these plans, and keep the Reapers in the dark about it.

For crying out loud.Weren't the Reapers landing on or near the Prothean Archives on Mars, right when Shep was leaving?


I could not agree more with this. I never understood that saying so...

I TOTALLY AGREE!! 

I've never claimed that I figured it out or anything. But I know for sure that after getting to that point and listening to the StarChild I realized he had not done anything to earn my trust. :bandit:


And there's something else, that's been on my mind lately...

Remember what Legion says if you ask it about the Reapers Mind.It says that thier consciousness is orders of magnitude higher than its own.And Legion now understands how organics could veiw Nazarra as Godlike.

I don't know if Shep was being indoctrinated or not.In a way, I don't think that's all that important.What concerns me now.Is that I got played by the Starchild.I let that little bastard decieve me into thinking that my canon Shepard was capable of controlling the Reapers.Because I wanted to believe that what interested the Reapers so much in Shepard in ME2.Was that he was immune to indoctrination.I wanted to believe that this is so.And now I think that another great mystery about the plot of ME3 can be explained:

Why do the Reapers seem to all of a sudden show no interest in Shepard in 2186.After they were sort of obssessed with him in 2185? Did there focus change or are they actually taking a greater interest in Shep.If Indoctrination Theory turns out to be true, than the answer is yes.

Now back to the starchild.If you are like me and you orginally took the ME3 Ending Sequence at "face value".Here's what I have to say.

Do you truly believe that Commander Shepard's mind and will is powerful enough to control the Reapers? Does that even seem remotely possible? Hell no... :pinched:

We all gave in to are hubris.Thinking since Shepard is the hero.He can do what the villian (TIM) could not.

I decided to "Control" the Reapers because I figured that inspite of the fact that I am morally opposed to slavery. It was the best option on the table.For if I am in control of the Reapers.I will have them remake the Mass Relay Network and Citadel.And protect and police sapient organic life instead of destroying it.

'Synthesis' struck me as the equivalent of genetic rape.So there's no way I could endorse it.

'Destroy' struck me as taking something bad out of the world, but not adding anything good to it.As Thane Krios once said.

Okay, I'm done for right now.Just thought this was some interesting food for thought. B)

Modifié par ubermensch007, 04 avril 2012 - 07:37 .


#29024
Earthborn_Shepard

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You'd also have to wonder how Shep could control ANYTHING when he is a puddle of ash. Because, you know, he completely gets dissolved. The starchild was talking about how he would become something else, but...

well. No matter what happens, Destroy will ALWAYS be the only ending I'll choose. Because Control is so fishy, and Synthesis makes absolutely no sense.

Modifié par Earthborn_Shepard, 04 avril 2012 - 07:34 .


#29025
Raistlin Majare 1992

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ubermensch007 wrote...

ChuckieJ wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

Has anyone else noticed that Commander Shepard can walk through the Keepers on the Citadel like they are holograms at the end part.I do not believe that this is a design oversight.Shep can't walk through the keepers at any other part of the game.

So you have the Hand Canon having Infinite Ammo, Holographic Keepers, Admiral Anderson acting like an enthusiastic kid wanting to explore his enviroment.Going on ahead, instead of waiting for Shep to back him up. And the Illusive Man appearing out of nowhere.I don't know.Maybe he had an Infiltration Cloak on or something.But there are many things during the last ten or so minutes of the game, that indicate that things may not be as they appear.

I don't know if Shepard was being Indoctrinated or if he was having an hallucination.But even if you decide to take everything that happens at face value.There are many reasons to be very circumspect, when it comes to the starchild.

Consider what we have seen... Very early in the adventure, Shepard discovers that EDI can lie and has deceived organics on several occasions.Later on, we learn that even Legion wasn't all that honest with Shep, once or twice.Baring this all in mind-- why should any of us just take what the Citadel AI (or whatever Godboy is) says as truth and fact?

You don't have to agree with IT, but the Starchild is far from a trustworthy source of intel.Look at the sinster way he smiles if you chose the "Control" option.I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare reveals that Project Crucible was a Reaper Trojan Horse.All the signs are there.

Think about it.How is it remotely possible for the Reapers to have not known about a device designed to end them, that has been in development for multiple extinction cycles. Somehow, the next race in line for Reaperization, just happens to find these plans, and keep the Reapers in the dark about it.

For crying out loud.Weren't the Reapers landing on or near the Prothean Archives on Mars, right when Shep was leaving?


I could not agree more with this. I never understood that saying so...

I TOTALLY AGREE!! 

I've never claimed that I figured it out or anything. But I know for sure that after getting to that point and listening to the StarChild I realized he had not done anything to earn my trust. :bandit:


And there's something else, that's been on my mind lately...

Remember what Legion says if you ask it about the Reapers Mind.It says that thier consciousness is orders of magnitude higher than its own.And Legion now understands how organics could veiw Nazarra as Godlike.

I don't know if Shep was being indoctrinated or not.In a way, I don't think that's all that important.What concerns me now.Is that I got played by the Starchild.I let that little bastard decieve me into thinking that my canon Shepard was capable of controlling the Reapers.Because I wanted to believe that what interested the Reapers so much in Shepard in ME2.Was that he was immune to indoctrination.I wanted to believe that this is so.And now I think that another great mystery about the plot of ME3 can be explained:

Why do the Reapers seem to all of a sudden show no interest in Shepard in 2186.After they were sort of obssessed with him in 2185? Did there focus change or are they actually taken a greater interest in Shep.If Indoctrination Theory turns out to be true, than the answer is yes.

Now back to the starchild.If you are like me and you orginally took the ME3 Ending Sequence at face value.Here's what I have to say.Do you truly believe that Commander Shepard's mind and will is powerful enough to control the Reapers? Does that even seem remotely possible? Hell no... :pinched:

We all gave in to are hubris.Thinking since Shepard is the hero.He can do what the villian (TIM) could not. I decided to "Control" the Reapers because I figured that inspite of the fact that I am morally opposed to subjugation.It was the best option on the table.For if I am in control of the Reapers.I will have them remake the Mass relay Network and Citadel.And protect sapient organic life instead of destroying it.

Synthesis struck me as the equivalent of genetic rape.So there's no way I could endorse it.

Destroy struck me as taking something bad out of the world, but not adding anything good to it.As Thane Krios once said.

Okay, I'm done for right now.Just thought this was some interesting food for thought. B)


Funny how Legion is brought up so much as a point of reference when making the choice in the end.

I personally repelled Control as impossible from moment one, but Synthesis Iwas tempted towards...until Legions voice in my head reinacted how the Geth sought freedom to do as they please without outside influence...It struck me that in Synthesis I would become that outside influence...not just for the Geth, but for all races.

And I prombtly blew the tube up!