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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#29301
byne

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Skillz1986 wrote...

Goddamnit...playimg on insanity right now..and i have to say, marauder shields is the deadliest son of a b**ch in space!!!! did not die once before that sucker...damn...5th attempt now.


Yeah, I was stuck on him for a while too.

I got past him when I realized I could shoot him even while recoiling from his first shot. Just keep shooting him and dont miss, and he shouldnt fire back at you.

#29302
llbountyhunter

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Skillz1986 wrote...

Goddamnit...playimg on insanity right now..and i have to say, marauder shields is the deadliest son of a b**ch in space!!!! did not die once before that sucker...damn...5th attempt now.


never forget.

#29303
Tirian Thorn

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byne wrote...

Whats also strange about that is that defenders of the ending get around the plothole of why the godchild didnt just open the Citadel for Sovereign in ME1 by claiming he cant control the Citadel. In Control, Shep effectively becomes the new Catalyst. If the Catalyst cant control the Citadel, who exactly is closing the arms?


Of all the plotholes this is my biggest peeve of all. 

It just doesn't make any F&*^%$# sense what-so-ever. 

Unless the Crucible awakened the Star Child somehow and he can only be awakened if an organic shows up at a certain time/place.  (DUMB!) 

#29304
Skillz1986

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Well thank byne, that did it for me.

#29305
Rifneno

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Skillz1986 wrote...

Goddamnit...playimg on insanity right now..and i have to say, marauder shields is the deadliest son of a b**ch in space!!!! did not die once before that sucker...damn...5th attempt now.


I just finished my first insanity playthrough. London is nerdrage enducing. Best death was one when defending the missile trucks. Banshee was coming after me so I hauled it out of the store I was in. Or rather, I tried to. Since every single fricking thing you can do in this game is all attached to one button, I instead used the shelves for "cover". You remember that scene where the entire Migrant Fleet opens fire on that one Reaper on Rannoch? Yeah. That's what the marauders and cannibals did to me.

... :(

llbountyhunter wrote...

this game has more detail put into it than any documentary ive seen, just look at the number of codexes.


Point: Missed. Oh well.

#29306
Erethrian

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Orange Tee wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Well.. so there might be another theory out there..

what if the Catalyst is actually the "Shepard" of another cycle before him? Someone who tried to control the Reapers and became the new VI? What if this is the Reaper's final trap.. if there's someone who is close to defeating them.. they offer to obey him in exchange for not destroying him?

I just blew my own mind


Thats why I never buy it when people claim control is a peaceful way to end the cycles.

I mean, even assuming it isnt a Reaper trap, once Shep has been the Catalyst for thousands or millions of years, she could lose perspective and decide the original Catalyst was right about synthetics all along, and start the cycles over again.


Exactly, that's why I hate control despite how good it seems. I was asking myself the exact same thing when I was given that option. What if I become a part what I've been trying to fight all along?

Edit: Does anyone else find it a huge coincidence that PAX and the potential ending DLC being announced is on Easter weekend? You know how the religious implications of the holiday correlate with how the DLC is with Shepard? Rembering suffering/death of Christ/Shepard (this whole contrevorsey, suffering of fans) = good friday (april 6th) and revivial of Christ/Shepard (April 8th)

Crazy I know, but a very wierd coincidence.


If we get something on April 8th I'll make you a statue.


Lol I look forward to it....


Haha, it's just I agree with that thought... It's indeed a very wierd coincidence.

Anyway, I'll have to take a pic of the statue if this turns to be true, I think I won't be able to send it to you. :P

#29307
byne

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Rifneno wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

Goddamnit...playimg on insanity right now..and i have to say, marauder shields is the deadliest son of a b**ch in space!!!! did not die once before that sucker...damn...5th attempt now.


I just finished my first insanity playthrough. London is nerdrage enducing. Best death was one when defending the missile trucks. Banshee was coming after me so I hauled it out of the store I was in. Or rather, I tried to. Since every single fricking thing you can do in this game is all attached to one button, I instead used the shelves for "cover". You remember that scene where the entire Migrant Fleet opens fire on that one Reaper on Rannoch? Yeah. That's what the marauders and cannibals did to me.

... :(


Banshees were the only thing that cause me any trouble at all on my Insanity run. (Other than Marauder Shields)

Everything else was easily handled by

1: Charge
2: Nova
3: Shotgun

Repeat as needed.


Vanguards are awesome.

#29308
Caz Tirin

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At this point, with The Announcement only a couple days off, what I'm to say is akin to beating a dead horse.  However, I wanted to have this posted before The Announcement was made.  I actually wish I had made this post a couple weeks ago when it first occurred to me, but oh well.

Do I agree with IT?  No, I do not.  Part of why is irrelevant to what I'm about to say but part of it is what lead me to this conclusion.  That part being the way the story was delivered and laid out.  If BioWare uses IT as their explanation, it's not because that was their intent all along, but rather a lazy, easy out.  There have been interviews and articles about where the game was originally planned to to go and IT was never mentioned.  Dark Energy was, however.  Nothing else in any of the three games is delivered with such exaggerated subtlety as IT is.  Indeed, to claim that was the intended ending shines further light on the fact that BioWare did a poor job writing the ending.  If you need evidence of this, just look at these forums alone and the resulting backlash.  If IT were the intended result, there would have been clearer clues.

So, if they use or claim IT, it's not because it was their intention all along, but rather because it gives them an easy out.

I don't expect this point of view to be popular and because of that people will attack me and insult me.  But the purpose of this post was to put this out there before The Announcement.  Good day, folks.

#29309
byne

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Caz Tirin wrote...

At this point, with The Announcement only a couple days off, what I'm to say is akin to beating a dead horse.  However, I wanted to have this posted before The Announcement was made.  I actually wish I had made this post a couple weeks ago when it first occurred to me, but oh well.

Do I agree with IT?  No, I do not.  Part of why is irrelevant to what I'm about to say but part of it is what lead me to this conclusion.  That part being the way the story was delivered and laid out.  If BioWare uses IT as their explanation, it's not because that was their intent all along, but rather a lazy, easy out.  There have been interviews and articles about where the game was originally planned to to go and IT was never mentioned.  Dark Energy was, however.  Nothing else in any of the three games is delivered with such exaggerated subtlety as IT is.  Indeed, to claim that was the intended ending shines further light on the fact that BioWare did a poor job writing the ending.  If you need evidence of this, just look at these forums alone and the resulting backlash.  If IT were the intended result, there would have been clearer clues.

So, if they use or claim IT, it's not because it was their intention all along, but rather because it gives them an easy out.

I don't expect this point of view to be popular and because of that people will attack me and insult me.  But the purpose of this post was to put this out there before The Announcement.  Good day, folks.


I shall not attack you. While I believe Indoctrination Theory is a far better ending than we have,  I'm still about 50/50 on whether I'll believe it was their original intention if they actually do announce it.

#29310
Tirian Thorn

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Caz Tirin wrote...

At this point, with The Announcement only a couple days off, what I'm to say is akin to beating a dead horse.  However, I wanted to have this posted before The Announcement was made.  I actually wish I had made this post a couple weeks ago when it first occurred to me, but oh well.

Do I agree with IT?  No, I do not.  Part of why is irrelevant to what I'm about to say but part of it is what lead me to this conclusion.  That part being the way the story was delivered and laid out.  If BioWare uses IT as their explanation, it's not because that was their intent all along, but rather a lazy, easy out.  There have been interviews and articles about where the game was originally planned to to go and IT was never mentioned.  Dark Energy was, however.  Nothing else in any of the three games is delivered with such exaggerated subtlety as IT is.  Indeed, to claim that was the intended ending shines further light on the fact that BioWare did a poor job writing the ending.  If you need evidence of this, just look at these forums alone and the resulting backlash.  If IT were the intended result, there would have been clearer clues.

So, if they use or claim IT, it's not because it was their intention all along, but rather because it gives them an easy out.

I don't expect this point of view to be popular and because of that people will attack me and insult me.  But the purpose of this post was to put this out there before The Announcement.  Good day, folks.



I wish i had the actual quote handy - someone else will.

If you get the app and watch the developement of the game they actually come right out and say that they considered using a scene where Shepard is fully under control, but scrapped it due to issues with the choice wheel etc. 

This doesn't totaly debunk your thoughts, but they have definately considered a situation where Shepard is indoctrinated. 

#29311
Rifneno

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byne wrote...

Banshees were the only thing that cause me any trouble at all on my Insanity run. (Other than Marauder Shields)

Everything else was easily handled by

1: Charge
2: Nova
3: Shotgun

Repeat as needed.


Vanguards are awesome.


That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.

#29312
Wabajakka

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Erethrian wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

byne wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Well.. so there might be another theory out there..

what if the Catalyst is actually the "Shepard" of another cycle before him? Someone who tried to control the Reapers and became the new VI? What if this is the Reaper's final trap.. if there's someone who is close to defeating them.. they offer to obey him in exchange for not destroying him?

I just blew my own mind


Thats why I never buy it when people claim control is a peaceful way to end the cycles.

I mean, even assuming it isnt a Reaper trap, once Shep has been the Catalyst for thousands or millions of years, she could lose perspective and decide the original Catalyst was right about synthetics all along, and start the cycles over again.


Exactly, that's why I hate control despite how good it seems. I was asking myself the exact same thing when I was given that option. What if I become a part what I've been trying to fight all along?

Edit: Does anyone else find it a huge coincidence that PAX and the potential ending DLC being announced is on Easter weekend? You know how the religious implications of the holiday correlate with how the DLC is with Shepard? Rembering suffering/death of Christ/Shepard (this whole contrevorsey, suffering of fans) = good friday (april 6th) and revivial of Christ/Shepard (April 8th)

Crazy I know, but a very wierd coincidence.


If we get something on April 8th I'll make you a statue.


Lol I look forward to it....


Haha, it's just I agree with that thought... It's indeed a very wierd coincidence.

Anyway, I'll have to take a pic of the statue if this turns to be true, I think I won't be able to send it to you. :P




Lol, believe me, I don't expect to correct on that theory lol.

But the way everything has just fallen into place is a rediculous coinicdence and all it makes it seem unlikely just as much as it seems likely. I mean it truly would be "the most clever marketing scheme of all time" if it were true, but I think that would be giving way too much credit to anyone to expect that kind of thing, let alone the indoc theory.

PAX really will be the deciding factor of the series for a lot of people I think though.

#29313
IronSabbath88

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Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Banshees were the only thing that cause me any trouble at all on my Insanity run. (Other than Marauder Shields)

Everything else was easily handled by

1: Charge
2: Nova
3: Shotgun

Repeat as needed.


Vanguards are awesome.


That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


I was a Soldier and this is all I ever carried into battle:

Falcon VII
Black Widow X
Scimitar X
Carnifex X (later replaced by Paladin V)

I had SOME problems, but not a ton. I could definitely see how playing a Vanguard could be quite boring. I'm gearing up to play Engineer soon and plan on only using Assault Rifles/SMG's and Pistols, we'll see how it goes.

#29314
Tirian Thorn

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Caz Tirin wrote...

At this point, with The Announcement only a couple days off, what I'm to say is akin to beating a dead horse. However, I wanted to have this posted before The Announcement was made. I actually wish I had made this post a couple weeks ago when it first occurred to me, but oh well.

Do I agree with IT? No, I do not. Part of why is irrelevant to what I'm about to say but part of it is what lead me to this conclusion. That part being the way the story was delivered and laid out. If BioWare uses IT as their explanation, it's not because that was their intent all along, but rather a lazy, easy out. There have been interviews and articles about where the game was originally planned to to go and IT was never mentioned. Dark Energy was, however. Nothing else in any of the three games is delivered with such exaggerated subtlety as IT is. Indeed, to claim that was the intended ending shines further light on the fact that BioWare did a poor job writing the ending. If you need evidence of this, just look at these forums alone and the resulting backlash. If IT were the intended result, there would have been clearer clues.

So, if they use or claim IT, it's not because it was their intention all along, but rather because it gives them an easy out.

I don't expect this point of view to be popular and because of that people will attack me and insult me. But the purpose of this post was to put this out there before The Announcement. Good day, folks.

 
My belief that the ending -as it stands today- was planned stems from of the high quality of work I have come to expect of Bioware over the years.  The current ending is full of plotholes and no explanations of similar events we have witnessed previously.
I’d like to make you a convert, but you are of course entitled to your opinions.  Discussion is welcome but it is all speculation until they [Bioware] make an announcement.  Which will hopefully be Friday. 

#29315
byne

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Rifneno wrote...

That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


Well, when you replay games as many times as I do, the class that can clear rooms of enemies the quickest is the best class to play.

Thats why I've beaten the game 5 times as a vanguard and only once on my sentinel and soldier characters.

#29316
llbountyhunter

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Rifneno wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

Goddamnit...playimg on insanity right now..and i have to say, marauder shields is the deadliest son of a b**ch in space!!!! did not die once before that sucker...damn...5th attempt now.


I just finished my first insanity playthrough. London is nerdrage enducing. Best death was one when defending the missile trucks. Banshee was coming after me so I hauled it out of the store I was in. Or rather, I tried to. Since every single fricking thing you can do in this game is all attached to one button, I instead used the shelves for "cover". You remember that scene where the entire Migrant Fleet opens fire on that one Reaper on Rannoch? Yeah. That's what the marauders and cannibals did to me.

... :(

llbountyhunter wrote...

this game has more detail put into it than any documentary ive seen, just look at the number of codexes.


Point: Missed. Oh well.



i see you didnt understand the complexisity of my response.

you have just been reaper'd.

#29317
llbountyhunter

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Banshees were the only thing that cause me any trouble at all on my Insanity run. (Other than Marauder Shields)

Everything else was easily handled by

1: Charge
2: Nova
3: Shotgun

Repeat as needed.


Vanguards are awesome.


That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


I was a Soldier and this is all I ever carried into battle:

Falcon VII
Black Widow X
Scimitar X
Carnifex X (later replaced by Paladin V)

I had SOME problems, but not a ton. I could definitely see how playing a Vanguard could be quite boring. I'm gearing up to play Engineer soon and plan on only using Assault Rifles/SMG's and Pistols, we'll see how it goes.


am i the only one that perfers sentinal?

#29318
IronSabbath88

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byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


Well, when you replay games as many times as I do, the class that can clear rooms of enemies the quickest is the best class to play.

Thats why I've beaten the game 5 times as a vanguard and only once on my sentinel and soldier characters.


I played Mass Effect 2 at least 12 times and used every class at least once, some more than once. Vanguard only twice.

You could say I like the game a lot.. lol

Edit: Bountyhunter, I play every class. I don't "prefer" any class. Sure Adept and Infiltrator are my favourites but I can honestly make any class work.

Modifié par IronSabbath88, 04 avril 2012 - 06:17 .


#29319
njfluffy19

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I always play as an adept. The enemies go 'boom'.

#29320
llbountyhunter

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


Well, when you replay games as many times as I do, the class that can clear rooms of enemies the quickest is the best class to play.

Thats why I've beaten the game 5 times as a vanguard and only once on my sentinel and soldier characters.


I played Mass Effect 2 at least 12 times and used every class at least once, some more than once. Vanguard only twice.

You could say I like the game a lot.. lol

Edit: Bountyhunter, I play every class. I don't "prefer" any class. Sure Adept and Infiltrator are my favourites but I can honestly make any class work.


I was just pointing out how sentinal seems to be one of the classes nobody uses. I find it quite effect.

#29321
byne

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IronSabbath88 wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


Well, when you replay games as many times as I do, the class that can clear rooms of enemies the quickest is the best class to play.

Thats why I've beaten the game 5 times as a vanguard and only once on my sentinel and soldier characters.


I played Mass Effect 2 at least 12 times and used every class at least once, some more than once. Vanguard only twice.

You could say I like the game a lot.. lol

Edit: Bountyhunter, I play every class. I don't "prefer" any class. Sure Adept and Infiltrator are my favourites but I can honestly make any class work.


Well in ME2 and ME1, my preferred class was soldier, since the HMWA assault rifle with frictionless materials in ME1, and the Revenant in ME2 are just ridiculously awesome.

I've beaten both ME1 and ME2 ~30 times each. You could say I, too, like the game a lot ;)

#29322
Rifneno

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IT was planned. That's really all there is to it. There's no way the game was so full of indoctrination symptoms, including symptoms they only told us about after ME3 was already well underway or even released, simply by accident. Why the hell would they put random ringing and buzzing noises throughout the game for no good reason? Have Shepard experience dreams that are increasingly full of indoctrination symptoms, right after firmly establishing the symptoms do come via dreams in Arrival? Why establish that TIM's eyes are from a Reaper artifact indoctrinating him and then give Shepard the exact same eyes if he picks control/synth? Not "like" them, exactly the same.

Indoctrination was planned. Anyone that says otherwise just has a bruised ego over not having noticed the clues themselves. Will they definitely go with it? Of course not, there's no crystal ball. It may have been scrapped. But it was definitely planned. There is no chance that all the clues we've found were coincidence. None.

#29323
llbountyhunter

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byne wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

That's your... well, not your problem, that's our difference right there.  I refuse to play vanguards because charge/nova is just ridiculous.  Well, it probably wouldn't be if this weight system wasn't so retarded.  But, sadly, it is.  So I was playing a soldier.  Old reliable.  Err, well, after adrenalin rush got neutered, just plain old I guess.


Well, when you replay games as many times as I do, the class that can clear rooms of enemies the quickest is the best class to play.

Thats why I've beaten the game 5 times as a vanguard and only once on my sentinel and soldier characters.


I played Mass Effect 2 at least 12 times and used every class at least once, some more than once. Vanguard only twice.

You could say I like the game a lot.. lol

Edit: Bountyhunter, I play every class. I don't "prefer" any class. Sure Adept and Infiltrator are my favourites but I can honestly make any class work.


Well in ME2 and ME1, my preferred class was soldier, since the HMWA assault rifle with frictionless materials in ME1, and the Revenant in ME2 are just ridiculously awesome.

I've beaten both ME1 and ME2 ~30 times each. You could say I, too, like the game a lot ;)


ONLY 30  times???? and you call you self a mass effect fan? lol :P

#29324
balance5050

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Infiltrator here, boring I know, but I like being a ninja.

#29325
Chyliss

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Skillz1986 wrote...

Goddamnit...playimg on insanity right now..and i have to say, marauder shields is the deadliest son of a b**ch in space!!!! did not die once before that sucker...damn...5th attempt now.


"Did we get anyone to the beam?!?!"

You sick of hearing that yet??? lol