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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#29426
balance5050

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n00bsauce2010 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Guys, I just read this on Micheal Gambles twitter:

Chrisopher
@masseffect @bioware @CaseyDHudson @GambleMike @JessicaMerizan
"With Prometheus Ridley Scott Perfects what ME3 missed:
http://tinyurl.com/d8bo7sf

Jessica Merizan
@fpsanalyst
lol comparison doesn't make any sense. It discuses a film's marketing campaign. We did a hugely successful ARG if you recall ;)


Michael Gamble
@JessicaMerizan @fpsanalyst
yeah. I really don't get the comparison. Plus, there were some glaring inaccuracies with the ME3 representation.


Robert Marquardt
@GambleMike
Well in the past ridley scott's films have come full circle and have made sense with their endings. I think thats what they mean

Michael Gamble
@The_R3medy
How many years did it take for Scott to confirm that Deckard was a Replicant? 20?


I'm confused about what they're contemplating.


Firstly, Jessica refers to ME 3 having a "hugely succesful ARG" or alternate reality game, then she gives a little :) , I would think she is refering to solving the mystery of I.T.. but to be fair she could be talking about that thing where they gave copies of the game away on hot air balloons.

I think this part is telling as well:

How many years did it take for Scott to confirm that Deckard was a Replicant? 20?

#29427
mr.surv

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n00bsauce2010 wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Lakeshow1986 wrote...


This?


Yeah, I think the second paragraph, in particular, is very telling.


Where is it located? the datapad



Alliance Force Base on earth. In the room with Liara ( in fact' it's the second small room )


It's seems that this beam is transporting people to "somwhere" and they come back as a reapers.

#29428
n00bsauce2010

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balance5050 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Guys, I just read this on Micheal Gambles twitter:

Chrisopher
@masseffect @bioware @CaseyDHudson @GambleMike @JessicaMerizan
"With Prometheus Ridley Scott Perfects what ME3 missed:
http://tinyurl.com/d8bo7sf

Jessica Merizan
@fpsanalyst
lol comparison doesn't make any sense. It discuses a film's marketing campaign. We did a hugely successful ARG if you recall ;)


Michael Gamble
@JessicaMerizan @fpsanalyst
yeah. I really don't get the comparison. Plus, there were some glaring inaccuracies with the ME3 representation.


Robert Marquardt
@GambleMike
Well in the past ridley scott's films have come full circle and have made sense with their endings. I think thats what they mean

Michael Gamble
@The_R3medy
How many years did it take for Scott to confirm that Deckard was a Replicant? 20?


I'm confused about what they're contemplating.


Firstly, Jessica refers to ME 3 having a "hugely succesful ARG" or alternate reality game, then she gives a little :) , I would think she is refering to solving the mystery of I.T.. but to be fair she could be talking about that thing where they gave copies of the game away on hot air balloons.

I think this part is telling as well:

How many years did it take for Scott to confirm that Deckard was a Replicant? 20?


So that means to me.. they'll reveal their "twist" much much sooner.

Also.. I didn't know he revealed that Deckard was a Replicant.

#29429
MapleJar

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I played the cliffhanger (I refuse to call it an ending - it don't believe it is and was never intended to be as such) again last night, and I am convinced, more than ever, that it's all a hallucination / last ditch indoctrination attempt.

It mostly plays out in slow motion. You have unlimited ammo. There are dead branches and other foliage around like in your dreams. Then in the citadel, when Anderson is talking to you, supposedly over your comm, it's like he is actually seeing out of your eyes. I don't know what other chasm he could be referring to. I get the feeling that both Anderson and TIM are just manifestations of the Paragon and Renegade aspects of Shepard. Anderson gets shot in the side, but then it appears that it's Shep who is shot. When the Catalyst is talking about the three choices, you are shown a vision of TIM doing control and Anderson doing destroy.

I've read many posts where people are saying that control is supposed to be the paragon choice because it's blue, and destroy is renegade because it's red. I disagree. Not just because of the above vision, but also because of what Javik says to you at one point if you have From Ashes. Javik tells you that one of the primary reason that the Protheans failed is because a splinter group rose up among them that thought control was the answer for them as well. So to that aim, they undermined the freedom fighters (yet another reason why From Ashes should not have been stripped out to be DLC). This is clearly what is happening between Cerberus and the Alliance now. IMHO, it's clear that control isn't actually an option at all. It's just another way for the Reapers to get organics to do their job for them.

To me, this is what the three choices boil down to:
1) Control - You want to join Cerberus in undermining the freedom fighters.
2) Synthesis - You want to be harvested, and become a Reaper to fight organics in the next cycle.
3) Destroy - You want to continue to do what you've been doing all three games, and kick all the Reaper ass you can.

I think the choice you make has no affect on the reality of the game yet. I think the consequences of the choice will play out in the DLC. I don't think there is any beam or star magic. I don't think the child is the catalyst - I think it's just the citadel itself and there is no other manifestation of it. I don't think the relays are actually destroyed - at least not at this point. I don't think the Normandy has fled the battle, and all your troops, who were on the ground with you, are somehow magically are aboard. I think all of that was a part of the hallucination. Even if you say you want to continue to destroy them, the Reapers are still trying to make you feel isolated and alone. Perhaps they want you to feel like you can't stop them without some kind of space magic.

Anyway - this is my current take on things. The cliffhanger is so wacky, though, that I honestly am not really 100% sure what Bioware was thinking. This thread has an interesting thought at well: http://social.biowar...ndex/10276192/1.

I just wish Bioware had provided us with a complete game with a solid ending to begin with. This includes the content of From Ashes being included with the game - it contains so many elements that I feel are integral to the story as a whole (meaning the entire ME1 through 3 arc). After hundreds of hours and devotion to this series of games - this is what we deserved. We didn't deserve to get jerked around like this with a cliffhanger that provides no real closure - all for the sake of frakking DLC.

I think I provided some solid paragraph work here, but if you feel like this is a wall of text then - I apologize. Thanks for reading!

Modifié par MapleJar, 04 avril 2012 - 08:48 .


#29430
balance5050

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n00bsauce2010 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Guys, I just read this on Micheal Gambles twitter:

Chrisopher
@masseffect @bioware @CaseyDHudson @GambleMike @JessicaMerizan
"With Prometheus Ridley Scott Perfects what ME3 missed:
http://tinyurl.com/d8bo7sf

Jessica Merizan
@fpsanalyst
lol comparison doesn't make any sense. It discuses a film's marketing campaign. We did a hugely successful ARG if you recall ;)


Michael Gamble
@JessicaMerizan @fpsanalyst
yeah. I really don't get the comparison. Plus, there were some glaring inaccuracies with the ME3 representation.


Robert Marquardt
@GambleMike
Well in the past ridley scott's films have come full circle and have made sense with their endings. I think thats what they mean

Michael Gamble
@The_R3medy
How many years did it take for Scott to confirm that Deckard was a Replicant? 20?


I'm confused about what they're contemplating.


Firstly, Jessica refers to ME 3 having a "hugely succesful ARG" or alternate reality game, then she gives a little :) , I would think she is refering to solving the mystery of I.T.. but to be fair she could be talking about that thing where they gave copies of the game away on hot air balloons.

I think this part is telling as well:

How many years did it take for Scott to confirm that Deckard was a Replicant? 20?


So that means to me.. they'll reveal their "twist" much much sooner.

Also.. I didn't know he revealed that Deckard was a Replicant.


He does right here, but people still debate it.

 

#29431
BinaryHelix101

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Even Saren agrees with us

#29432
Stigweird85

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Hey all, just been booted off MP seems EA servers went down(other internet access is okay seeing as I am here)

Haven't been on the boards in a few days and wanted to check in. Anything really interesting crop up in the last 100 or so pages either pro of anti IT.

I have seen the datapad thing and don't really think much of it other than it being a little more information to create a living breathing world. Like how in the safehouse on Earth you can listen to a medic talk someone through treated a soldier who has a had a leg blown off.

#29433
Jaxitty

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n00bsauce2010 wrote...

somecrazyname wrote...



Has this scene been mentioned yet? It provides additional support that Shepard is under incredible stress during ME3. Also, Joker's half-robot remark. I'm probably just grasping straws, but it's interesting.


It's been brought up before.


I brought this up sometime last week, didn't get much comment and I couldn't, for the life oif me, find a vid on it anywhere so took one of my own, think I posted it, can't remember, but yeah, kinda gibssmacked me too when I saw it and related it to a bunch of stuff here.

#29434
Jaxitty

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Something else I noticed after playing NG+ (since I rushed through the first play just to get to the end) Up on the Citadel, Anderson still has his ear mic,Shep doesn't, nor any kind of headgear. So Anderson coulda been jabbering about anything...and Shep can't or shouldn't be able to hear him

Modifié par Jaxitty, 04 avril 2012 - 09:05 .


#29435
Earthborn_Shepard

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BinaryHelix101 wrote...



Even Saren agrees with us


"Indoctrination. There is no other explanation. Shepard must be indoctrinated!"
Lol great...

#29436
llbountyhunter

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 another flaw in current endings.... Image IPB

#29437
Lakeshow1986

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Yes, I never got why they helped the Geth is spacebrat's intentions were to preserve organic life...

#29438
schneeland

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Jaxitty wrote...

Something else I noticed after playing NG+ (since I rushed through the first play just to get to the end) Up on the Citadel, Anderson still has his ear mic,Shep doesn't, nor any kind of headgear. So Anderson coulda been jabbering about anything...and Shep can't or shouldn't be able to hear him


Well, another blow for the current "ending" - kind of strange that I never noticed before.

#29439
LeRavelle

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MapleJar wrote...

I played the cliffhanger (I refuse to call it an ending - it don't believe it is and was never intended to be as such) again last night, and I am convinced, more than ever, that it's all a hallucination / last ditch indoctrination attempt.

It mostly plays out in slow motion. You have unlimited ammo. There are dead branches and other foliage around like in your dreams. Then in the citadel, when Anderson is talking to you, supposedly over your comm, it's like he is actually seeing out of your eyes. I don't know what other chasm he could be referring to. I get the feeling that both Anderson and TIM are just manifestations of the Paragon and Renegade aspects of Shepard. Anderson gets shot in the side, but then it appears that it's Shep who is shot. When the Catalyst is talking about the three choices, you are shown a vision of TIM doing control and Anderson doing destroy.

I've read many posts where people are saying that control is supposed to be the paragon choice because it's blue, and destroy is renegade because it's red. I disagree. Not just because of the above vision, but also because of what Javik says to you at one point if you have From Ashes. Javik tells you that one of the primary reason that the Protheans failed is because a splinter group rose up among them that thought control was the answer for them as well. So to that aim, they undermined the freedom fighters (yet another reason why From Ashes should not have been stripped out to be DLC). This is clearly what is happening between Cerberus and the Alliance now. IMHO, it's clear that control isn't actually an option at all. It's just another way for the Reapers to get organics to do their job for them.

To me, this is what the three choices boil down to:
1) Control - You want to join Cerberus in undermining the freedom fighters.
2) Synthesis - You want to be harvested, and become a Reaper to fight organics in the next cycle.
3) Destroy - You want to continue to do what you've been doing all three games, and kick all the Reaper ass you can.

I think the choice you make has no affect on the reality of the game yet. I think the consequences of the choice will play out in the DLC. I don't think there is any beam or star magic. I don't think the child is the catalyst - I think it's just the citadel itself and there is no other manifestation of it. I don't think the relays are actually destroyed - at least not at this point. I don't think the Normandy has fled the battle, and all your troops, who were on the ground with you, are somehow magically are aboard. I think all of that was a part of the hallucination. Even if you say you want to continue to destroy them, the Reapers are still trying to make you feel isolated and alone. Perhaps they want you to feel like you can't stop them without some kind of space magic.

Anyway - this is my current take on things. The cliffhanger is so wacky, though, that I honestly am not really 100% sure what Bioware was thinking. This thread has an interesting thought at well: http://social.biowar...ndex/10276192/1.

I just wish Bioware had provided us with a complete game with a solid ending to begin with. This includes the content of From Ashes being included with the game - it contains so many elements that I feel are integral to the story as a whole (meaning the entire ME1 through 3 arc). After hundreds of hours and devotion to this series of games - this is what we deserved. We didn't deserve to get jerked around like this with a cliffhanger that provides no real closure - all for the sake of frakking DLC.

I think I provided some solid paragraph work here, but if you feel like this is a wall of text then - I apologize. Thanks for reading!


Legion explains a lot of points, like using your own memories and familiar surrroundings, that makes sense if the ending is also a consesus scene.

#29440
N7xELITE

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schneeland wrote...

Jaxitty wrote...

Something else I noticed after playing NG+ (since I rushed through the first play just to get to the end) Up on the Citadel, Anderson still has his ear mic,Shep doesn't, nor any kind of headgear. So Anderson coulda been jabbering about anything...and Shep can't or shouldn't be able to hear him


Well, another blow for the current "ending" - kind of strange that I never noticed before.

Mind powers :wizard:

#29441
njfluffy19

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

BinaryHelix101 wrote...



Even Saren agrees with us


"Indoctrination. There is no other explanation. Shepard must be indoctrinated!"
Lol great...


Saren, you big lug! We tried to tell you and now you accuse us! Hypocrite!

#29442
Lakeshow1986

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Keeping the collector base was a blue explosion, I wouldn't call that a paragon decision, would you!? I think it's the same here, the blue choice isn't the paragon ending either!

#29443
Lakeshow1986

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Also how on earth did Jacob get off the Citadel? I spoke to him on comms on earth, bragging about kills yet no mention to the reapers taking the very spacestation that he was on?

Space magic??

#29444
JustAidan

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Lakeshow1986 wrote...

Keeping the collector base was a blue explosion, I wouldn't call that a paragon decision, would you!? I think it's the same here, the blue choice isn't the paragon ending either!


Yep, only Destroy is Shepard's own goal since the start, whether paragon or renegade.
There are no paragon or renegade choices in the final scene (if IT is true obviously).

#29445
schneeland

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N7xELITE wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Jaxitty wrote...

Something else I noticed after playing NG+ (since I rushed through the first play just to get to the end) Up on the Citadel, Anderson still has his ear mic,Shep doesn't, nor any kind of headgear. So Anderson coulda been jabbering about anything...and Shep can't or shouldn't be able to hear him


Well, another blow for the current "ending" - kind of strange that I never noticed before.

Mind powers :wizard:


Oh no! Space magic crept inside our heads ... maybe that's why space kid was so ****ty ... they wanted us to face-palm the space magic out again ...

#29446
Lakeshow1986

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I agree its about staying committed to what you believe in, not to be swayed by power and change your decision.

#29447
N7xELITE

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my reaction when i saw the space magic and the god child 

#29448
Random Internet Person

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The IT is balony. There are clearly 3 (not very well written) choices in front Commander Shepard. If Shep was indoctrinated, there would only be one choice. I don't buy the arguement that the star-child was misleading Shepard. Manipulation and indoctrination are two different things.

Name me one religious cult that allows followers to do one of 3 things. No, they are indoctrinated and do the same thing over and over.

#29449
Golferguy758

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In keeping with my promise to countdown to PAX:

http://t0.gstatic.co...Y1KztH57LvVgORZ

#29450
schneeland

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Random Internet Person wrote...

The IT is balony. There are clearly 3 (not very well written) choices in front Commander Shepard. If Shep was indoctrinated, there would only be one choice. I don't buy the arguement that the star-child was misleading Shepard. Manipulation and indoctrination are two different things.

Name me one religious cult that allows followers to do one of 3 things. No, they are indoctrinated and do the same thing over and over.


While I totally do not buy into your argument, I have to appreciate that it has not been used that much. So at least you win for originality ;)