57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Niemack Saarinen]

I know its been said but i know people keep saying that Shep has of course been in contact with reaper tech, but most notably we should not forget that lengthy encounter with the reaper device (Object Rho)  in the ARRIVAL DLC. -- you were literally standing right next to it and hit with it, as well as slept there for a bit so obviously that was the last case before ME3 started of you encountering the touch of indoctrination.

Modifié par Niemack Saarinen, 12 mars 2012 - 02:23 .

[Zhuinden]

Ecmoose wrote...

Terryballer wrote...

I just realized something. Not sure if anyone has brought it up yet, but the child says that Shepard is the first Organic to make it "this far", but shortly afterwards it shows that both the TIM and Anderson had made it "that far". VIA TIM trying to assume control and Anderson trying to shoot the destroy all reapers tube. And if that didn't happen and it was just a scene to show us what those characters would have chosen. Then as some people have already said, why is Anderson's choice renegade and the TIM's paragon?

Well if this theory is true, it's because the reapers are trying to trick you into not killing them.

Honestly, it's quite effective.

[lookingglassmind]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/new_post/9727423/9798592

OT Question: Where are you guys getting your signature images from? I'd love one of the Canadian Fleet.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9786308

I made a thread with all of the ones I've made so far.

Unfortunatedly they can't be displayed because I am using a new BSN account. Registered ME3 under the wrong Origin account.. DAMN YOU ORIGIN!

You did a hell of a job with these. The community owes you a major kudos.

Although, I would love to use your design without the wanting to demand better endings bit. Because of this thread, I am hopeful that I wouldn't need to ask BioWare for that.

[TamiBx]

Lambchopz wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

I made a video with the explanation of Indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Seems like all of this is happening to Shep towards the end of the game

I noticed this. Shepard is definitely in a fragile psychological state towards the end of the game, would have been a pretty prime opportunity for the Reapers to try and indocrinate him or at least trick him into picking bad choices.

I would be thoroughly impressed if BioWare went through with this... Even if this wasn't exactly their original vision, this would pretty much save the ending to this game if they followed this.

If this was their plan from the start, I would pretty much hail BioWare as devious gods of RPGs.

OMG. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG. This. This. THIS. 
It makes perfect sense! Ghost presence (the stupid kid), ringing noises that gives headaches (Vega complaining about the weird noise on Normandy), trusting the enemy and betraying your own friends (choosing any other ending besides destroy reapers, because then you are trusting the enemy). Also, slow indoctrination lasts for years...

[Lugaidster]

Guys, even if this doesn't turn out to be true. It's such an epic meta-analysis that I'm glad I was part of it. Cheers to us all for whatever comes next.

[Bigdoser]

humes spork wrote...

Oh, and has anyone played through as a Shepard who never had an LI? Maybe the extended Anderson dialog is for a "single" Shepard.

I have a Shepard who never had an LI, but I can't imagine Anderson, even mortally wounded, being so balls-out insane as to tell the extremist, human supremacist whose personal philosophy is "lead, follow, or die" she'd make a great mom.

Heh my renegade shep is earthborn ruthless after meeting the normandy crew she lighted up abit started caring for the soldiers under her command after meeting and talking with liara in me1 I think if you are renegade she says that you need to slow down abit sometimes or you end up bringing everything else down around you. but when she gets a mission objective she finishes it no matter what the cost is even if she needs to throw herself in the meat grinder. Oh and she likes krogan(since they will stab you in the face and not the back) and hates politcians as renegade shep says "I hate lies politicians and secrets!" So sticking with that mantra she cured the genophage and made peace between geth and qurians. 

The intimidate option to get the fleet to stand down is funny. 

Now that I am thinking about the endings it kinda does seem like a test of shepards resolve cause the meaning of crucible is "severe test or trial". 

[Terryballer]

Zhuinden wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Terryballer wrote...

I just realized something. Not sure if anyone has brought it up yet, but the child says that Shepard is the first Organic to make it "this far", but shortly afterwards it shows that both the TIM and Anderson had made it "that far". VIA TIM trying to assume control and Anderson trying to shoot the destroy all reapers tube. And if that didn't happen and it was just a scene to show us what those characters would have chosen. Then as some people have already said, why is Anderson's choice renegade and the TIM's paragon?

Well if this theory is true, it's because the reapers are trying to trick you into not killing them.

Honestly, it's quite effective.

It must be because I chose to control the reapers my first play through. Damn you indoctrination!!! 

[lookingglassmind]

Lugaidster wrote...

Guys, even if this doesn't turn out to be true. It's such an epic meta-analysis that I'm glad I was part of it. Cheers to us all for whatever comes next.

Yes, Lugaidster. I heartily concur.

[Papa John0]

Jesus, I hope it was all just a bad dream. I'll even take that terrible trope just for a chance to end it right.

[TamiBx]

Zhuinden wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

I made a video with the explanation of Indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Seems like all of this is happening to Shep towards the end of the game

I noticed this. Shepard is definitely in a fragile psychological state towards the end of the game, would have been a pretty prime opportunity for the Reapers to try and indocrinate him or at least trick him into picking bad choices.

I would be thoroughly impressed if BioWare went through with this... Even if this wasn't exactly their original vision, this would pretty much save the ending to this game if they followed this.

If this was their plan from the start, I would pretty much hail BioWare as devious gods of RPGs.

Indeed. The plot twist was so subtle and intricate that it took a while to catch it!
I hope this was their plan, that would just make them awesome.

I'm sold. It will be a true masterpiece if this is real. And I will give a 10/10 for sure. Now...if it isn't...

[Fledgey]

Terryballer wrote...

I just realized something. Not sure if anyone has brought it up yet, but the child says that Shepard is the first Organic to make it "this far", but shortly afterwards it shows that both the TIM and Anderson had made it "that far". VIA TIM trying to assume control and Anderson trying to shoot the destroy all reapers tube. And if that didn't happen and it was just a scene to show us what those characters would have chosen. Then as some people have already said, why is Anderson's choice renegade and the TIM's paragon?

My assumption is maybe this always happens with indoctrination. Transported to a magical place that seems to exist outside of reality where you're given these options, or similar options, two of which concede you to the control of the reapers. Note that the motivations of saren and TIM are represented there. Then we have anderson who was never indoctrinated. He's been on earth this whole time and he's one of their strongest agents. Don't you think they'd try? Maybe they did, but he chose the destroy option, and after leaving the magic space wizard land, it's wiped from your memory to prevent you from questioning it. Just a thought.

[Sl4sh3r]

TamiBx wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

I made a video with the explanation of Indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Seems like all of this is happening to Shep towards the end of the game

I noticed this. Shepard is definitely in a fragile psychological state towards the end of the game, would have been a pretty prime opportunity for the Reapers to try and indocrinate him or at least trick him into picking bad choices.

I would be thoroughly impressed if BioWare went through with this... Even if this wasn't exactly their original vision, this would pretty much save the ending to this game if they followed this.

If this was their plan from the start, I would pretty much hail BioWare as devious gods of RPGs.

OMG. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG. This. This. THIS. 
It makes perfect sense! Ghost presence (the stupid kid), ringing noises that gives headaches (Vega complaining about the weird noise on Normandy), trusting the enemy and betraying your own friends (choosing any other ending besides destroy reapers, because then you are trusting the enemy). Also, slow indoctrination lasts for years...

If this is truly what Bioware was going for... they can have all my money. I will walk right into their offices and hand them all my money.

[lookingglassmind]

Fledgey wrote...

Terryballer wrote...

I just realized something. Not sure if anyone has brought it up yet, but the child says that Shepard is the first Organic to make it "this far", but shortly afterwards it shows that both the TIM and Anderson had made it "that far". VIA TIM trying to assume control and Anderson trying to shoot the destroy all reapers tube. And if that didn't happen and it was just a scene to show us what those characters would have chosen. Then as some people have already said, why is Anderson's choice renegade and the TIM's paragon?

My assumption is maybe this always happens with indoctrination. Transported to a magical place that seems to exist outside of reality where you're given these options, or similar options, two of which concede you to the control of the reapers. Note that the motivations of saren and TIM are represented there. Then we have anderson who was never indoctrinated. He's been on earth this whole time and he's one of their strongest agents. Don't you think they'd try? Maybe they did, but he chose the destroy option, and after leaving the magic space wizard land, it's wiped from your memory to prevent you from questioning it. Just a thought.

The way I took this was the meeting at the top of the Crucible, facing the Catalyst directly. Anderson doesn't make it up there, and neither does TIM.

[krystalevenstar]

byne wrote...

I was just talking to EDI, and she said something that made Shepard ask "Are you saying submission is preferable to extinction?", which is a quote from Saren on Virmire, I believe. I find it odd that this quote is fresh enough in Shepard's mind that s/he'd remember it in a talk with EDI.

I find it even more odd that the two endings we are putting forth as accepting Reaper indoctrination (in other words, submission) are the endings that DONT cause the extinction of the Reapers and the Geth.

If its all a hallucination/indoctrination, it could be Harbinger trying to convince Shepard that submission is indeed preferable to extinction, like Sovereign did to Saren.

I forgot about that conversation with EDI. This is all foreshadowing people.

[Lambchopz]

TamiBx wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

I made a video with the explanation of Indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Seems like all of this is happening to Shep towards the end of the game

I noticed this. Shepard is definitely in a fragile psychological state towards the end of the game, would have been a pretty prime opportunity for the Reapers to try and indocrinate him or at least trick him into picking bad choices.

I would be thoroughly impressed if BioWare went through with this... Even if this wasn't exactly their original vision, this would pretty much save the ending to this game if they followed this.

If this was their plan from the start, I would pretty much hail BioWare as devious gods of RPGs.

OMG. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG. This. This. THIS. 
It makes perfect sense! Ghost presence (the stupid kid), ringing noises that gives headaches (Vega complaining about the weird noise on Normandy), trusting the enemy and betraying your own friends (choosing any other ending besides destroy reapers, because then you are trusting the enemy). Also, slow indoctrination lasts for years...

There are some even more subtle clues to this if you pay attention. For example, being defeated by Leng was the only time I've ever seen Shepard truely distraught. Yeah, you got around it, but then there's some more interesting things when you get to the Cerberus base.

When you read the consoles about project lazarus, Shepard actually freaks about a little bit. Shepard starts to question him/herself with questions like "But I'm still me, right?" and that sort of thing. That is the first time I've ever seen Shepard be that way.

There are lots of examples like this throughout the game, but that aspect starts to ramp up quickly at that point.

[blooregard]

Lambchopz wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...

I made a video with the explanation of Indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Seems like all of this is happening to Shep towards the end of the game

I noticed this. Shepard is definitely in a fragile psychological state towards the end of the game, would have been a pretty prime opportunity for the Reapers to try and indocrinate him or at least trick him into picking bad choices.

I would be thoroughly impressed if BioWare went through with this... Even if this wasn't exactly their original vision, this would pretty much save the ending to this game if they followed this.

If this was their plan from the start, I would pretty much hail BioWare as devious gods of RPGs.

leaving your fanbase to deal with an ending where you may have been indoctronated just to release a "true ending" DLC surpasses the trolltastic actions of most religious idols, puts the greek/roman gods douchebaggery to shame, and makes the old testament god look like a kind person. Bioware wouldn't just be the devious gods of RPG they would be beings of such a high level of evil that their troll tactics would be known throughout the multiverse


tl;dr bioware = extradimentional troll gods

[Dot.Shadow]

I was blown away when I first was told about this over at a ME fan forum. Their explanation was even more well argued. I'm almost convinced. I need some time to think about all of this.

Without this explanation though, there are just too many plot holes.


... You represent the forces of chaos.

Thus the "renegade" or "chaotic" option is... ours.

Modifié par Dot.Shadow, 12 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[lookingglassmind]

Lambchopz wrote...

When you read the consoles about project lazarus, Shepard actually freaks about a little bit. Shepard starts to question him/herself with questions like "But I'm still me, right?" and that sort of thing. That is the first time I've ever seen Shepard be that way.

There are lots of examples like this throughout the game, but that aspect starts to ramp up quickly at that point.

I found this to be weird. Very weird. Why is Shepard finally having an identity crisis so close to the end?

This seems to lend creedence to the small theory going out there that Shepard never stepped out of the Geth VI/Consensus with Legion.

[BlackDragonBane]

krystalevenstar wrote...

byne wrote...

I was just talking to EDI, and she said something that made Shepard ask "Are you saying submission is preferable to extinction?", which is a quote from Saren on Virmire, I believe. I find it odd that this quote is fresh enough in Shepard's mind that s/he'd remember it in a talk with EDI.

I find it even more odd that the two endings we are putting forth as accepting Reaper indoctrination (in other words, submission) are the endings that DONT cause the extinction of the Reapers and the Geth.

If its all a hallucination/indoctrination, it could be Harbinger trying to convince Shepard that submission is indeed preferable to extinction, like Sovereign did to Saren.

I forgot about that conversation with EDI. This is all foreshadowing people.

Alot of quotes and situations similar to Saren crop up throughout the game. Sovereign had convinced Saren that submission would be the path to salvation for all species. Harbinger likely thought the same course of action would work, but it's requiring WAY more effort to start taking affec than Harbinger predicted, hence the near-obsessive vendetta the Reaper seems to posses for the Commander and the Commander alone.

[HairyMadDog1010]

Yeah with all the reaper tech Shep has been exposed to it is odd he showed no signs of indoctrination. I mean he spent 2 days next to a device that indoctrinated an entire alliance base. Also the fact that they no longer show shep as meantally stable in 3 supports the idea that he can be indoctrinated(or already partally is).

[Elmogaming]

Coming Soon " It was all a dream " DLC!!!

I wish.......

[Lotarion]

Colectors wanted Shepard's body for something. I think it was crucial to finish the "human reaper" thing. If they want to create a Repaer that contains crucial data about humans then they need their greates hero.. So if Blue is indoctrination i think Green is becoming one with reapers. And you can only get green with enough war effort becouse they must see you truly worthy the "ascension". So once again

Blue - indoctrination
Green - Becoming part of the reaper (like in Colector's base)
Red - Setting yourself free from Harbys grasp.

This is also why Catalist is trying to tell you that green is the best while red is the worst.

[Sl4sh3r]

Lotarion wrote...

Colectors wanted Shepard's body for something. I think it was crucial to finish the "human reaper" thing. If they want to create a Repaer that contains crucial data about humans then they need their greates hero.. So if Blue is indoctrination i think Green is becoming one with reapers. And you can only get green with enough war effort becouse they must see you truly worthy the "ascension". So once again

Blue - indoctrination
Green - Becoming part of the reaper (like in Colector's base)
Red - Setting yourself free from Harbys grasp.

This is also why Catalist is trying to tell you that green is the best while red is the worst.

This **** has got my hopes up... I'd almost rather be left to theory craft like this with everyone than to have BW tell me that we're wrong...

[blooregard]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

When you read the consoles about project lazarus, Shepard actually freaks about a little bit. Shepard starts to question him/herself with questions like "But I'm still me, right?" and that sort of thing. That is the first time I've ever seen Shepard be that way.

There are lots of examples like this throughout the game, but that aspect starts to ramp up quickly at that point.

I found this to be weird. Very weird. Why is Shepard finally having an identity crisis so close to the end?

This seems to lend creedence to the small theory going out there that Shepard never stepped out of the Geth VI/Consensus with Legion.

whats all this about shepard not stepping out of the consensus? that mission is a side quest and completely optional that and it seems like there is alot that goes on between going into the geth consensus and getting blasted by harbinger

[Nette]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

When you read the consoles about project lazarus, Shepard actually freaks about a little bit. Shepard starts to question him/herself with questions like "But I'm still me, right?" and that sort of thing. That is the first time I've ever seen Shepard be that way.

There are lots of examples like this throughout the game, but that aspect starts to ramp up quickly at that point.

I found this to be weird. Very weird. Why is Shepard finally having an identity crisis so close to the end?

This seems to lend creedence to the small theory going out there that Shepard never stepped out of the Geth VI/Consensus with Legion.

hey, that got me thinking....didn't Shep loose contact with Legion right when she was about to step out of the geth VI?