57139 réponses à ce sujet

[IronSabbath88]

I hate to say it but if there isn't good explanation for all those hints of indoctrination and ridiculous sudden plot holes and keep the ending as is with no relays and the galaxy in shambles.

Then there's just no point in me continuing. Why even bother? WHY would you just ruin your entire IP by doing that? I don't care if you try to rebuild it because breaking it in the first place was a dumb move.

If we're to take these endings at face value, then I have to walk. It's just how it is.

[lex0r11]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Oh... my... God!!! Go read the BW blog.  They say outright that there will be NO CHANGES to how the game ends and are standing by the artistic integrity of the endings as they are now.

Bro, I suggest you just sit back, relax, and watch human psychology at work.  Grab a beer and pull up a lawn chair.  It is truly a sight to behold.

Yeah, quite easy to see without studying psychology that you two are really trying too hard for some reason.

[Blubox]

just saw/found this. - http://blog.bioware....3-extended-cut/

Modifié par Blubox, 05 avril 2012 - 04:58 .

[Big G13]

McGrzegorz wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

Michael Gamble
 wrote...

Extended cut was one of the things I alluded to. We are working our butts off to make this amazing, gratifying, and over to you ASAP.

twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968

@[/s]GambleMike[/b] So it was planned from the beginning? Even before ME3 release?[/b]Close[/list]@[/s]NJacquemet[/b] I wouldnt say that. It's because we've been listening since launch!

@[/s]GambleMike[/b] That's great, but why wasn't it done pre-release? Surely you guys understand why the current ending isn't liked by the fans?

@[/s]MrXBob[/b] well, we only started getting feedback post launch from the fans!
Clos@[/s]MrXBob[/b] well, we only started getting feedback post launch from the fans![/list]

Again... I completely don't understand... so they were kinda prepare for something like that?
What is going on...?!? Nobody's giving clear answers... People on the forum jump to their throats...
It's not funny anymore...

Sounds like the royal family is trying to figure out a way to leave through the front door. Instead of fleeing out the back.

[nyrocron]

Errm http://twitter.com/#...946105097564160

Modifié par nyrocron, 05 avril 2012 - 05:00 .

[legaldinho]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

CaliGuy033 wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

None of you understand, or at least most on either side of the debate. "Artistic integrity" means the indoctrination interpretation should stand without making an ending that says "woops he's indoctrinated, sorry: have another go. YOU WIN." It means the interpretation is valid, but the face-value ending is prima facie valid as well. They're simply going to try to sell the face-value ending to the fans, make it more acceptable, easier to swallow. They never intended to release any DLC on the ending, and those adherents of IT who believed in it because "the true ending" would come only have themselves to blame for their naivety. The gloaters are even more stupid, because if they understood the theory they would understand it's an interpretation. 

This would be accurate if the theory were being offered exclusively as a "fan interpretation" and not "the narrative construct Bioware intended for the ending."   The former allows for certain fans to believe one thing while still maintainin the "prima facie" validity of the "face-value" ending.  But the latter is preclusive (in addition to obviously being incorrect).

Nonsense. The alternative interpretation in Total Recall is worked into a narrative. It's possible to have multiple interpretations of a story. In fact, that's one of the main artistic traits of storytelling.

It's not fan fiction, it was intended- the clues are there. But it was done in a totally inept way. Mainly because the ending makes little sense, is abrupt etc etc I'm sure we can agree on that. You need a strong ending, and then a clue. Arnie looking a bit melancholic on being victorious, and fade to white. That's how you do it. Bioware botched it, is all.

You didn't refute a single thing I said.  Whether it's "worked into the narrative" is not germane to my point.   I totally disagree that it is, first of all.  The "clues" present are a result of confirmation bias.  

But even if I assume you're right and it is "worked into the narrative," the dominant thrust here is that IT is "the real ending," not just an alternative interpretation of an otherwise valid ending.  Most people here do not agree that the face-value ending is even "prima facie" valid.

I did attempt to refute your assertion that IT was "fan fiction". Whether I succeeded I leave to you. Interpretation takes two things: the material and the interpreter. To that extent it's impossible for interpretation not to involve the fans. But an interpretation worked into the narrative means it's intended that some or all of the audience will be able to see the interpretation, if not to adopt it. Your statement that there is some kind of sharp divide between "THE" narrative construct Bioware intended for the ending and "fan fiction" was wrong. It is possible to intend to portray two alternative interpretations of events.

As to your second point, well if you favour an interpretation that will be the real ending for you. I agree however: hence the post you first quoted. The mistake most adherents to IT made from day one was to believe that somehow the face-value ending was some kind of prank. That is unspeakably naive.

[Kyzee]

nyrocron wrote...

Errm https://twitter.com/...946105097564160

Yet more proof that people need to stop saying definitively what will happen. No one knows but the flippin' developers, folks.

[N7xELITE]

 They should do a ending like the one at the end of serenity the movie. ( a.k.a Firefly) 




http://ts2.mm.bing.n...0eae7d81a046a = Awesome 

[DreamTension]

Errm https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/187946105097564160

Modifié par DreamTension, 05 avril 2012 - 05:02 .

[Hacedor1566]

They have a @CaliGuy033 a Cave Troll!!!! 

[IronSabbath88]

ConVito wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I hate to say it but if there isn't good explanation for all those hints of indoctrination and ridiculous sudden plot holes and keep the ending as is with no relays and the galaxy in shambles.

Then there's just no point in me continuing. Why even bother? WHY would you just ruin your entire IP by doing that? I don't care if you try to rebuild it because breaking it in the first place was a dumb move.

If we're to take these endings at face value, then I have to walk. It's just how it is.

I'm seriously getting tired of saying this to everyone. Even if IT isn't true, how on earth could you know exactly how things will turn out?

ARE YOU A WIZARD

Because it's just a clusterf*ck of epic proportions. I'll give them the chance, but I don't have high hopes.

Cautiously optimistic. You feel me?

[vrumpt]

nyrocron wrote...

Errm https://twitter.com/...946105097564160

ahdfakdhghaskdhgaaksdhg     /tableflip

why must they continue to be so cryptic.  Let me bury my hopes and dreams of a good ending already so I can move on.

[Kyzee]

Double, sorry.

Modifié par Kyzee, 05 avril 2012 - 05:02 .

[Skillz1986]

I gotta say i'm proud of you all for straight out ignoring trolls.

This thread is meant for people who enjoy speculating, and evolving upon the idea of indoctrination within the me series.

We do not have to explain sh** to people who do not participate. i mean seriously...how much of a no life having jackass do you have to be, to run arou d the world (or the internet) searching for people who do not agree with your point of view, just to try to convince them otherwise. you do not believe in it? Fine...guess what, you're entitled to do so, for whatever reason you have. but so are we...so if you do not want to speculate why it still holds weight, get lost..this forum is not for you. and for all it belivers..ignore those guys...discussion only lead to more discussions. they don't want to believe it..you will certainly not convince them

[balance5050]

vrumpt wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

Errm https://twitter.com/...946105097564160

ahdfakdhghaskdhgaaksdhg     /tableflip

why must they continue to be so cryptic.  Let me bury my hopes and dreams of a good ending already so I can move on.

I know, its like they are torturing us, then right before death they nurse as back a bit just to torture us again.

[savagejuicebox]

Everybody relax, is there honestly anything that you can REALLY do about it at this moment in time? No.

Are there going to be butt loads of questions for bioware tomorrow at PAX? Yes.

 Do i need to answer anymore of my own questions? Maybe.

But the point im trying to make is; dont freak over something you dont have control over at this point in time, relax and wait for tomorrow 4:30pm eastern US time for more and then after that we can all lose our minds and burn couches and sh*t. 

[DreamTension]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I gotta say i'm proud of you all for straight out ignoring trolls.

This thread is meant for people who enjoy speculating, and evolving upon the idea of indoctrination within the me series.

We do not have to explain sh** to people who do not participate. i mean seriously...how much of a no life having jackass do you have to be, to run arou d the world (or the internet) searching for people who do not agree with your point of view, just to try to convince them otherwise. you do not believe in it? Fine...guess what, you're entitled to do so, for whatever reason you have. but so are we...so if you do not want to speculate why it still holds weight, get lost..this forum is not for you. and for all it belivers..ignore those guys...discussion only lead to more discussions. they don't want to believe it..you will certainly not convince them

Great post.  Thanks

Modifié par DreamTension, 05 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Hacedor1566 wrote...



They have a @CaliGuy033 a Cave Troll!!!! 

Lmfao!

[Big G13]

Hacedor1566 wrote...



They have a @CaliGuy033 a Cave Troll!!!! 

beyond classic.

[IronSabbath88]

At least it's free. The people who don't like it have nothing to complain about.

I for one will continue to enjoy my trilogy. As for whether or not I'll continue to buy Mass Effect, we'll see. It all depends on how well it's done.

[CaliGuy033]

legaldinho wrote...

I did attempt to refute your assertion that IT was "fan fiction". Whether I succeeded I leave to you. Interpretation takes two things: the material and the interpreter. To that extent it's impossible for interpretation not to involve the fans. But an interpretation worked into the narrative means it's intended that some or all of the audience will be able to see the interpretation, if not to adopt it. Your statement that there is some kind of sharp divide between "THE" narrative construct Bioware intended for the ending and "fan fiction" was wrong. It is possible to intend to portray two alternative interpretations of events.

I see your point, so allow me to clarify my position.  I absolutely believe Bioware intended, broadly, for there to be alternative interpretations to the ending of the game.  I think any good storyteller word.  I do not believe that they specifically intended for "Indoctrination Theory" to be one such interpretation, such that they purposefully planted "clues" of it throughout the game.  There is not a single "clue" supporting the theory that amounts to more than circumstantial evidence doused with confirmation bias.  

This was really sort of a perfect storm.  An ambiguous ending that angered a lot of people and made them not want to believe it was "real," a relatively intelligent fanbase with active minds, and a trilogy's worth of material from which to derive "clues."  The result is a clever, pretty thorough, pretty fun theory. But there is no reason to believe it is something Bioware specifically intended, even though I'm sure they did intend multiple interpretations in a broad sense.

That said...

legaldinho wrote... 

As to your second point, well if you favour an interpretation that will be the real ending for you. I agree however: hence the post you first quoted. The mistake most adherents to IT made from day one was to believe that somehow the face-value ending was some kind of prank. That is unspeakably naive.

At the end of the day, this is the bigger issue.  It's not whether anybody wants to interpret the ending differently than someone else.  Who cares?  I say, go for it.  The problem, as you say, is the widespread (and it is widespread) assumption that the real ending was a "prank" and simply a guise for the one true correct interpretation. 

Modifié par CaliGuy033, 05 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[Pathero]

Huh. The Cool Aid really was poisoned after all.

[Freckle Face]

nyrocron wrote...

Errm http://twitter.com/#...946105097564160

UGH.