57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Apollo-XL5]

What I find funny are the IT haters/whiners who have been actively trying to debunk our great theory so that they can have new endings have basically had a slap to the face ( they are not changing the current first part of the ending. You know the dreamlike indoctrination attempt) while our hopes for the indoctrination theory are still going strong.

[savagejuicebox]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I gotta say i'm proud of you all for straight out ignoring trolls.

This thread is meant for people who enjoy speculating, and evolving upon the idea of indoctrination within the me series.

We do not have to explain sh** to people who do not participate. i mean seriously...how much of a no life having jackass do you have to be, to run arou d the world (or the internet) searching for people who do not agree with your point of view, just to try to convince them otherwise. you do not believe in it? Fine...guess what, you're entitled to do so, for whatever reason you have. but so are we...so if you do not want to speculate why it still holds weight, get lost..this forum is not for you. and for all it belivers..ignore those guys...discussion only lead to more discussions. they don't want to believe it..you will certainly not convince them

Thank you. You made me proud to be different...

But in all seriousness, nice post.

[palacios]

balance5050 wrote...

vrumpt wrote...

nyrocron wrote...

Errm https://twitter.com/...946105097564160

ahdfakdhghaskdhgaaksdhg     /tableflip

why must they continue to be so cryptic.  Let me bury my hopes and dreams of a good ending already so I can move on.

I know, its like they are torturing us, then right before death they nurse as back a bit just to torture us again.

with medi-gel...

[Cucobr]

LeRavelle wrote...

Good luck keeping that artistic vision without any fans.

exactly

Modifié par Cucobr, 05 avril 2012 - 05:11 .

[WebFoo]

Blubox wrote...

just saw/found this. - http://blog.bioware....3-extended-cut/

"The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned"

Seriously... if it's just crap (current ending) + expansion on that crap.... it still equals crap.  I sure hope they're aware of that by now (??).  Not too optimistic, but got to wait and see I suppose.

[CLB17]

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

[Big G13]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Everybody relax, is there honestly anything that you can REALLY do about it at this moment in time? No.

Are there going to be butt loads of questions for bioware tomorrow at PAX? Yes.

 Do i need to answer anymore of my own questions? Maybe.

But the point im trying to make is; dont freak over something you dont have control over at this point in time, relax and wait for tomorrow 4:30pm eastern US time for more and then after that we can all lose our minds and burn couches and sh*t. 

I'm here. I'm listening. You are not alone.

[legaldinho]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

I did attempt to refute your assertion that IT was "fan fiction". Whether I succeeded I leave to you. Interpretation takes two things: the material and the interpreter. To that extent it's impossible for interpretation not to involve the fans. But an interpretation worked into the narrative means it's intended that some or all of the audience will be able to see the interpretation, if not to adopt it. Your statement that there is some kind of sharp divide between "THE" narrative construct Bioware intended for the ending and "fan fiction" was wrong. It is possible to intend to portray two alternative interpretations of events.

I see your point, so allow me to clarify my position.  I absolutely believe Bioware intended, broadly, for there to be alternative interpretations to the ending of the game.  I think any good storyteller word.  I do not believe that they specifically intended for "Indoctrination Theory" to be one such interpretation, such that they purposefully planted "clues" of it throughout the game.  There is not a single "clue" supporting the theory that amounts to more than circumstantial evidence doused with confirmation bias.  

This really sort of a perfect storm.  An ambiguous ending that angered a lot of people and made them not want to believe it was "real," a relatively intelligent fanbase with active minds, and a trilogy's worth of material from which to derive "clues."  The result is a clever, pretty thorough, pretty fun theory. But there is no reason to believe it is something Bioware specifically intended, even though I'm sure they did intend multiple interpretations in a broad sense.

That said...

legaldinho wrote... 

As to your second point, well if you favour an interpretation that will be the real ending for you. I agree however: hence the post you first quoted. The mistake most adherents to IT made from day one was to believe that somehow the face-value ending was some kind of prank. That is unspeakably naive.

At the end of the day, this is the bigger issue.  It's not whether anybody wants to interpret the ending differently than someone else.  Who cares?  I say, go for it.  The problem, as you say, is the widespread (and it is widespread) assumption that the real ending was a "prank" and simply a guise for the one true correct interpretation. 

Well there is much we agree on, but quite how you can believe:

1. That Bioware intended that there be alternative interpretations of the ending, but

2. That it did not intend that one of those be that Shepard was in the process of indoctrination and hallucinating the end,

is something that I will not understand. What alternative interpretation is there that can garner more clues in its favour than that one? In fact, is there anything else, other than variants as to the form of the indoctrination (dream/ VR etc).

Forgive me, but I now have you down as "has made a sort of clan issue out of indoctrination theory" type person. I've seen plenty on these boards. On both sides. Enjoy your time on the internet, young man.

Modifié par legaldinho, 05 avril 2012 - 05:13 .

[mrcanada]

Indoctrination was about the only way the ending could have been saved. Sadly, Bioware isn't smart enough to admit their mistake and go with it.

[N7xELITE]

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

I do not know.

[IronSabbath88]

You know, the more I think about this, the more I feel like there's something to it.

Think about it for a minute, if BioWare truly had these endings be taken as is, why would they feel the need to put in a long development time just to explain the endings? They would've released a statement detailing all that instead of developing all these answers that they could've answered simply by just saying so.

Also, the long dev time... what gives? If it was truly just cinematics and epilogues, wouldn't that take a month at the most?

Just some food for thought.

[Cucobr]

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

dude.. think

IT says.. at the end, Shepard wake up.

right?

ok

the New DLC isnt playble.



it is over man... is over.

so as my respect for BioWare.

ME3 was the last game that bought from BioWare.

[Freckle Face]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

I did attempt to refute your assertion that IT was "fan fiction". Whether I succeeded I leave to you. Interpretation takes two things: the material and the interpreter. To that extent it's impossible for interpretation not to involve the fans. But an interpretation worked into the narrative means it's intended that some or all of the audience will be able to see the interpretation, if not to adopt it. Your statement that there is some kind of sharp divide between "THE" narrative construct Bioware intended for the ending and "fan fiction" was wrong. It is possible to intend to portray two alternative interpretations of events.

I see your point, so allow me to clarify my position.  I absolutely believe Bioware intended, broadly, for there to be alternative interpretations to the ending of the game.  I think any good storyteller word.  I do not believe that they specifically intended for "Indoctrination Theory" to be one such interpretation, such that they purposefully planted "clues" of it throughout the game.  There is not a single "clue" supporting the theory that amounts to more than circumstantial evidence doused with confirmation bias.  

This was really sort of a perfect storm.  An ambiguous ending that angered a lot of people and made them not want to believe it was "real," a relatively intelligent fanbase with active minds, and a trilogy's worth of material from which to derive "clues."  The result is a clever, pretty thorough, pretty fun theory. But there is no reason to believe it is something Bioware specifically intended, even though I'm sure they did intend multiple interpretations in a broad sense.

That said...

legaldinho wrote... 

As to your second point, well if you favour an interpretation that will be the real ending for you. I agree however: hence the post you first quoted. The mistake most adherents to IT made from day one was to believe that somehow the face-value ending was some kind of prank. That is unspeakably naive.

At the end of the day, this is the bigger issue.  It's not whether anybody wants to interpret the ending differently than someone else.  Who cares?  I say, go for it.  The problem, as you say, is the widespread (and it is widespread) assumption that the real ending was a "prank" and simply a guise for the one true correct interpretation. 

^^completely agree. I do think that IDT is a strong theory, but it's also hard to ignore the fact that with a universe as vast as Mass Effect, with as much depth and material as this series has, it wouldn't be too hard to prove just about any theory you really wanted to. I think that's the point. I don't understand why IDT followers feel that in order for IDT to be valid, it must also be the ONLY "true" ending.

[enfo13]

The DLC doesn't disprove indoctrination theory. If they seek clarification-- it could mean they might insert more scenes into the game to make indoctrination more obvious. The game doesn't necessarily have to take off when Shepard is revived in London.

[FrostByte-GER]

God when I read this stupid "IT is done" comments. Dammit, think a littlebit! They can expand the ending WITH the indoctrination theory. They can say: okay, there are many hints in the first ending. We will use it to create a extended indoctrinated ending -> Mission accomplished

[Freckle Face]

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

No one has claimed that the article explicitly says IDT is false. The argument is about what the article implies. Hopefully that answers your question.

[Xandurpein]

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

They will probably never say so, as that may alientate people. What they do say is that they have no additional ending ready up their sleeve to release, and that heavily implies that they never planned for a "real" ending.

[Capeo]

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?

No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned.
[/list]What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?

BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3.[/list]
IT is not true.

Modifié par Capeo, 05 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[savagejuicebox]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You know, the more I think about this, the more I feel like there's something to it.

Think about it for a minute, if BioWare truly had these endings be taken as is, why would they feel the need to put in a long development time just to explain the endings? They would've released a statement detailing all that instead of developing all these answers that they could've answered simply by just saying so.

Also, the long dev time... what gives? If it was truly just cinematics and epilogues, wouldn't that take a month at the most?

Just some food for thought.

Good point my good man/madame but as i said before we wont really know anything more until tomorrow. Lets hope they released this today to elaborate tomorrow!

[Fhaarkas]

 here's the ending if you're interested.

 

[Apollo-XL5]

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

Exactly my thoughts mate.  I knew as soon as I read the article that the haters would just jump up and say he IT is false.  But really it hasn't debunked the IT because the current ( 1st half) ending is staying.

[JustAidan]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Skillz1986 wrote...

I gotta say i'm proud of you all for straight out ignoring trolls.

This thread is meant for people who enjoy speculating, and evolving upon the idea of indoctrination within the me series.

We do not have to explain sh** to people who do not participate. i mean seriously...how much of a no life having jackass do you have to be, to run arou d the world (or the internet) searching for people who do not agree with your point of view, just to try to convince them otherwise. you do not believe in it? Fine...guess what, you're entitled to do so, for whatever reason you have. but so are we...so if you do not want to speculate why it still holds weight, get lost..this forum is not for you. and for all it belivers..ignore those guys...discussion only lead to more discussions. they don't want to believe it..you will certainly not convince them

Thank you. You made me proud to be different...

But in all seriousness, nice post.

Haha, agreed totoally.

Has the initial panic in people passed yet?
Mine has, now I am just waiting to see what the ending content entails.

Another thought: There is no reason that IT was not planned but no actual 'real' ending was expected to be released to promote "Speculation". Ala "Blade Runner" and 20 years of "Is Deckard a replicant?"

Modifié par JustAidan, 05 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[nyrocron]

Cucobr wrote...

CLB17 wrote...

I'll ask a 3rd time. Where in the article does it say the indoctrination theory I not true?

dude.. think

IT says.. at the end, Shepard wake up.

right?

ok

the New DLC isnt playble.



it is over man... is over.

so as my respect for BioWare.

ME3 was the last game that bought from BioWare.

Please point me to the statement that says that is not playable. Please also explain why the ME twitter says that further info will be avilable later to the question if it is playable.

Modifié par nyrocron, 05 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[Tirian Thorn]

Logistics00 wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

Good luck keeping that artistic vision without any fans.

That 'artistic vision' they keep harping on about?

I think half of that is what is going to be revealed at Pax. I think we'll get a our more definitive ending, but that's only half the story.

The other half is everyone's reaction here on the forums and gaming sites. They're playing everyone like a harp and no one see's it. We're playing out the Christian morality play before our own eyes and can't see it. As I posted a little earlier, today is Maundy Thursday. The date of the last Supper, Judas's betrayal of Christ. I also refer everyone to this portion of the Gospel of Matthew:

--
Matthew 26:31 Then Jesus said to them, "You will all become deserters because of me this night; for it is written,
'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

32 But after I am raised up, I will go ahead of you to Galilee."

33 Peter said to him, "Though all become deserters because of you, I will never desert you." 34 Jesus said to him, "Truly I tell you, this very night, before the **** crows, you will deny me three times." 35 Peter said to him, "Even though I must die with you, I will not deny you." And so said all the disciples.

So, everyone here has suddenly started doubting after managing to convince ourselves with solid logic and a strong theory on the VERY DAY Peter historically (the most faithful of Jesus's disciples) lost his own faith.

Something is up.

You may not be religious, you may not believe in Jesus...  But this is interesting none-the-less.

The kid at the end even calls him/her "The Shepard." 

I'm not ready to give up IDT yet. 

Holding the line!

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 05 avril 2012 - 05:19 .

[balance5050]

 
https://twitter.com/...947208195313664