57139 réponses à ce sujet

[bulldozerchn98]

EA is a cash cow. Why the hell wouldn't they make a DLC ending? More money + a chance to repair the fanbase for future games?! C'mon now!

[lookingglassmind]

LenabotSE wrote...

* Vega seems to be a voice of reason, if only because he's so new to the whole thing.  "It's like the Citadel was made to keep people calm."  I actually agree with some comments that, since its a critical Reaper device, it could be engineered to promote a sense of tranquility and submission.  Maybe, apart from genetic meddling, that's why the Keepers are so docile.

Wow. This actually HELPS our Vega argument even more -- that he is the only squad member that wasn't pre-exposed to indoctrination devices before getting onto the Normandy. This explains his ability to hear the hum, as well as be aware of the Citadel's affect on people's behaviour.

[Evil Minion]

If it turns out it was all a dream.....

I will be beyond ticked-off. They should either deal with the endings they have, or create an alternate ending, but not invalidate the entire thing.

The "it was a dream" convention is horrible writing. Go read about the backlash that occured after the tv show "St. Elsewhere," or the conclusion to the "Who Shot J.R.?" storyline from "Dallas."

Awful idea.

[vasametropolis]

yeah the success message at the end would be part of the manipulation. In the best ending he wakes up after all of this suggesting it indeed didn't happen

[Sl4sh3r]

FemShep13 wrote...

If this is true then BW is brilliant and I will finally be satisfied with the conclusion of the series. It makes more sense as some hallucination then the actual ending to a game that has been so focused on giving the players choice.

If this is true they still lied to us.

We have no "ending" to the game.

[BlackDragonBane]

LenabotSE wrote...

I initially dismissed this theory as wishful thinking, but I've seen the light and have been converted.  Hallelujah, amen!  I'm actually going to start a second playthrough with the sole intent of looking for all the little clues throughout the game.  The indoctrination theory is, at this point, the only logical solution to this fiasco.  

Apologies if I repeat anything.  100+ pages is a lot to read through.


* The Normandy could have been compromised when it was infected with the Reaper virus in ME2.  EDI locked it down for the rest of that game, but it could have infected various subsystems to facilitate indoctrination, even if Shepard managed to blow up the Collectors.  A Reaper contingency plan that could float around undetected. 

* Vega seems to be a voice of reason, if only because he's so new to the whole thing.  "It's like the Citadel was made to keep people calm."  I actually agree with some comments that, since its a critical Reaper device, it could be engineered to promote a sense of tranquility and submission.  Maybe, apart from genetic meddling, that's why the Keepers are so docile.

* The Derelict Reaper mission in ME2 is potential foreshadowing.  The indoctrinated crew comments on seeing things that aren't there, whether it's structural (Anderson: "The walls seem like they're shifting, moving!") or just related to objects (the kid).  It even extends to memories and beliefs.  Basically, indoctrination messes with every sense of perception you have. 

* The Catalyst is just an unreliable narrator.  It makes no negative comments about Control or Synthesis - even if both options present potential drawbacks - and lays the guilt on thick for Destroy.  It's a fairly big deal that it's the only one the Reaper AI doesn't. want. you. to. pick. 

* Saren was meant to be a sympathetic villain, and your situation is basically meant to mirror his in a form of tragic poetry.  The indoctrination throughout the game is meant to break down Shepard's confidence and hope -- pushing the player closer toward Saren's urge to compromise and work with them in order to avoid eradication.  Or to the Illusive Man, who blindly wants to control them even though that's a really bad idea.

* The final battle, then, is effectively against Harbinger itself.  It's just a battle where the player's knowledge of indoctrination is tested after three games of warnings.  You just get to imagine that Shepard finishes the fight after you wake back up.  Which sucks, but.... it's better than the alternatives.

bravo.

[lookingglassmind]

FemShep13 wrote...

If this is true then BW is brilliant and I will finally be satisfied with the conclusion of the series. It makes more sense as some hallucination then the actual ending to a game that has been so focused on giving the players choice.

If you want some evidence of player choice, read this (beware, long):

http://social.biowar...7423/81#9776530

Modifié par lookingglassmind, 12 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[vasametropolis]

well they did say hang onto your mass effect 3 saves...

[JELLAQTP]

I just remembered that in the crucible Shepard tolds TIM that one thing is to control a Reaper and another is to control him.

[Larask]

Dranume wrote...

After I sat down and thought about it after a few cigarettes, this is the same assumption that I come too. also based off of this twitter
Michael Gamble ‏ @GambleMike
"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever. "

wishful thinking gives hope that it was only a dream sequence.

Interesting... but still, if it means we have to pay for a DLC to see the proper ending that it is not fair at all to us

[John Never Dies]

The hum is the noise when your in the war room right? It is so annoying. You also hear it in MP when fighting reapers.

[eclipso621]

Ok I seen that post about the lost joker dialogue during the final push, and just now seen the live action trailer....even in that trailer it seems he us running towards a giant reaper in the distance while the Normandy flies above.

[thenxtmarvlhero]

Nette wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Lambchopz wrote...

When you read the consoles about project lazarus, Shepard actually freaks about a little bit. Shepard starts to question him/herself with questions like "But I'm still me, right?" and that sort of thing. That is the first time I've ever seen Shepard be that way.

There are lots of examples like this throughout the game, but that aspect starts to ramp up quickly at that point.

I found this to be weird. Very weird. Why is Shepard finally having an identity crisis so close to the end?

This seems to lend creedence to the small theory going out there that Shepard never stepped out of the Geth VI/Consensus with Legion.

hey, that got me thinking....didn't Shep loose contact with Legion right when she was about to step out of the geth VI? 

Hey, wasn't the data in the VI reaper data? Would it be possible for Shepard to become further indoctrinated through that? I know it's just a sie quest, but still

[BlackDragonBane]

JELLAQTP wrote...

I just remembered that in the crucible Shepard tolds TIM that one thing is to control a Reaper and another is to control him.

You know... I've heard that line twice and didn't think anything of it until seeing it now and the whole context of this theorycrafting thread.

Was Shepard actually aware that Harbinger was attempting to indoctrinate him/her, albeit, on a very subconcious level?

[CmdrSheperd]

I hope it is, it would make for a cool entrance into a much needed DLC to fix the ending. Like for example, shepard walks into synthesis beam, wakes up to Garrus, yo bro we gotta go Earth isn't gonna save itself. This is my take at least, and beyond me and my wallet will be waiting.

P.S.
Take a chill pill internet.

[Foulpancake]

I'll agree, Bioware if Frakin brilliant if this was their plan the whole time, the more and more i think about it, the game gets more and more strange, inconsistent and desperate, like you are being pushed to do whatever god-child (harbinger) tells you to do

Bioware, if this is truth, hats off to you, i'll never doubt you again

[blooregard]

Larask wrote...

Dranume wrote...

After I sat down and thought about it after a few cigarettes, this is the same assumption that I come too. also based off of this twitter
Michael Gamble ‏ @GambleMike
"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever. "

wishful thinking gives hope that it was only a dream sequence.

Interesting... but still, if it means we have to pay for a DLC to see the proper ending that it is not fair at all to us

see? extradimentional troll gods

[hunt27]

Asterantha wrote...

If this is the case (and this thread has given me the best hope I have), I will be truly in awe.

How would BioWare 'release' the revelation? An update/patch?

Their message at the end, "Shepard's journey is complete, they defeated the Reapers" blahblah, is that manipulation (from the devs)?

And just what about the grandpa telling their kiddo about the story of Shepard?

"Tell me another story about the Shepard" "ok one more story" 

Scene cuts to Shepard being pulled out of the rubble by a squad mate back on earth(seeing as how they have shown him take a breath and it's clearly earth), the real ending comes after harbingers failed indoctrination.

Seems this would only work if you pick destruction, breaking free from the reapers indoctrination since the other options are giving in. all the other crap the child tells you in the citadel is just reaper nonsense trying to convince to submit. 1M1

Modifié par hunt27, 12 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[SandTrout]

If they forced me to pay for a proper ending, I truly would never buy another EA or BioWare product again just because of how grave an insult it is. I wouldn't even buy the ending, I'd just look it up you youtube.

[BigBossBoo]

If they would release an ending, I agree that 1m1 makes sense. With a set up this epic, if this theory is right (and it better be), then letting any one region see the epicness of a real ending ahead of another would be unfair. With this path, BW might be able to claim RPG god, truly succeeding Final Fantasy and DnD. A title worthy of Mass Effect. Such a thing would be alright holding off till everyone is ready. Or so I hope..

I think it's possible for the crucible to just kill the reapers and nothing else.  The citadel is the catalyst.  The citadel is as every bit apart of the reapers, it may be more closely linked to them then we thought (a 'reaper' in itself, the ability to indoctrinate leaders even as reapers are in dark space, etc).  If the crucible uses the citadel to identify the signatures of the reapers, maybe it can isolate it's power to only target reapers.  Maybe that's why the citadel is the catalyst.  Or the crucible is actually a reaper invention to distract races long enough for reapers to kill/harvest them.

Modifié par BigBossBoo, 12 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[Debi-Tage]

Asterantha wrote...

If this is the case (and this thread has given me the best hope I have), I will be truly in awe.

How would BioWare 'release' the revelation? An update/patch?

Their message at the end, "Shepard's journey is complete, they defeated the Reapers" blahblah, is that manipulation (from the devs)?

And just what about the grandpa telling their kiddo about the story of Shepard?

I wondered about the Grandpa stuff at the end too. Did everyone get that regardless of end-game choice? Because (like a dork) I chose synthesis and it didnt seem to make sense with the apparent choice my shepard made. Why would people so far in the apparent future be referring to my shepard as "the shepard" and then stargazing as if wondering what other species may exist on other planets and then the child wonders when he will get to travel to the stars. If they are at the supposed "apex" of evolution - organic and synthetic - than why do they act as if they are in the 20th century? Also, its kind of creepy when you think about the fact that Joker and EDI - AKA "Eve" , emerge on a garden world smiling as if in eden...with my LI trailing behind.

Dumbest ending E-V-E-R!

[JELLAQTP]

Foulpancake wrote...

I'll agree, Bioware if Frakin brilliant if this was their plan the whole time, the more and more i think about it, the game gets more and more strange, inconsistent and desperate, like you are being pushed to do whatever god-child (harbinger) tells you to do

Bioware, if this is truth, hats off to you, i'll never doubt you again

Bioware can even say that it was the idea all the time (if wasn´t) and they can get out of this stronger than ever. 

Modifié par JELLAQTP, 12 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[goofyomnivore]

SandTrout wrote...

If they forced me to pay for a proper ending, I truly would never buy another EA or BioWare product again just because of how grave an insult it is. I wouldn't even buy the ending, I'd just look it up you youtube.

Same.

[oh_saki]

lookingglassmind wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

* Vega seems to be a voice of reason, if only because he's so new to the whole thing.  "It's like the Citadel was made to keep people calm."  I actually agree with some comments that, since its a critical Reaper device, it could be engineered to promote a sense of tranquility and submission.  Maybe, apart from genetic meddling, that's why the Keepers are so docile.

Wow. This actually HELPS our Vega argument even more -- that he is the only squad member that wasn't pre-exposed to indoctrination devices before getting onto the Normandy. This explains his ability to hear the hum, as well as be aware of the Citadel's affect on people's behaviour.

I still think it's kind of a stretch. I assume the indoc devices you guys are talking about is like the IFF Shep got in ME2? That doesn't explain Ashley or Kaiden, both of whom were never aboard Normandy during ME2 but neither of whom, so far as I can tell, are submitting to indoctrination. And what about EDI? Though she was in ME2, she isn't really a person, can Reapers indoc an AI? Thus far, I think that this theory is the least likely.

I'm still in favor of Shep getting indoc'd after the Reaper blast on Earth. Someone mentioned why if Harby knew Shep was alive why didn't he kill Shep instead of try to indoc him? Well, maybe Harbinger didn't know Shep was alive. And so far as I can tell, indoc is through osmosis, just the fact that you're near Reaper or Reaper tech you start to get indoc'd. I think of it as more of a passive action then the Reapers making specific choices and saying "Okay, we'll indoc you but not you". Of course, I could be wrong, and if I am, feel free to correct me about it.

[HairyMadDog1010]

The biggest reason for me believing this is the fact that in the shep lives scene he is surrounded by stone not the metal frim the citidell. And just how in the name of god could he escape from the citidell fast enough.

It makes much more sence to me that the shep lives scene alludes that the entire citidell part was shep fighting the indoctrination in his head and that by refusing to compromise with the reapers he breaks there hold on him so shepard wakes up, and if you compromise with the reapers they take over shep or he dies.

Modifié par HairyMadDog1010, 12 mars 2012 - 02:52 .