57139 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

strive wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

If they forced me to pay for a proper ending, I truly would never buy another EA or BioWare product again just because of how grave an insult it is. I wouldn't even buy the ending, I'd just look it up you youtube.

Same.

I dont really get this line of thinking.

If they instead decided to do the proper ending as an entirely new game, people would just be like 'Oh, ME3 was a cliffhanger, I'll have to buy ME4 to see what happens!", but if they decide to do it as DLC instead of a new game people get mad?

[Uezurii]

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

The biggest reason for me believing this is the fact that in the shep lives scene he is surrounded by stone not the metal frim the citidell. And just how in the name of god could he escape from the citidell fast enough.

It makes much more sence to me that the shep lives scene alludes that the entire citidell part was shep fighting the indoctrination in his head and that by refusing to compromise with the reapers he breaks there hold on him so shepard wakes up, and if you compromise with the reapers they take over shep or he dies.

This indeed.

[John Never Dies]

Could the cipher have been recoded by all of his interactions with the Reapers?

By the detail of what he sees in the Ashes DLC...anything is possible.

Wait what if TIM did something to it in the Lazarus Project?

Modifié par John Never Dies, 12 mars 2012 - 02:55 .

[lookingglassmind]

oh_saki wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

* Vega seems to be a voice of reason, if only because he's so new to the whole thing.  "It's like the Citadel was made to keep people calm."  I actually agree with some comments that, since its a critical Reaper device, it could be engineered to promote a sense of tranquility and submission.  Maybe, apart from genetic meddling, that's why the Keepers are so docile.

Wow. This actually HELPS our Vega argument even more -- that he is the only squad member that wasn't pre-exposed to indoctrination devices before getting onto the Normandy. This explains his ability to hear the hum, as well as be aware of the Citadel's affect on people's behaviour.

I still think it's kind of a stretch. I assume the indoc devices you guys are talking about is like the IFF Shep got in ME2? That doesn't explain Ashley or Kaiden, both of whom were never aboard Normandy during ME2 but neither of whom, so far as I can tell, are submitting to indoctrination. And what about EDI? Though she was in ME2, she isn't really a person, can Reapers indoc an AI? Thus far, I think that this theory is the least likely.

I'm still in favor of Shep getting indoc'd after the Reaper blast on Earth. Someone mentioned why if Harby knew Shep was alive why didn't he kill Shep instead of try to indoc him? Well, maybe Harbinger didn't know Shep was alive. And so far as I can tell, indoc is through osmosis, just the fact that you're near Reaper or Reaper tech you start to get indoc'd. I think of it as more of a passive action then the Reapers making specific choices and saying "Okay, we'll indoc you but not you". Of course, I could be wrong, and if I am, feel free to correct me about it.

I'm not saying Vega was indoctrinated. I'm saying that he is able to sense an indoctrination device. For him, it manifests as a hum (infrasonic waves). For Kaidan in ME1, he had headaches and pain in his teeth when he was next to Reaper artifacts. So, while I'm not submitting fully to the theory that an indoctrination device was aboard, or that EDI was the source of the indoctrination, I'm thinking that this observation about the Citadel makes the argument a tiny bit stronger that Vega serves as the indoctrination alarm for Shepard on the Normandy.

[cryosoul]

just had a holy crap moment. was digging through the codex tryin to find a QEC entry (Cause its supposedly very expensive and impractical so i was curious why the normandy had one everyone) and decided to look around having not found it (just before palavan btw).

stumbled across the Indoctrination entry under the reaper catagory in the main codex section. it was the seconed or third paragraph that stated the effects such as 'headaches and buzzing in the ear. subjects also complained of halucinations and ghostly figures speaking to them.'

don't shepards dreams tend to end with a kinda buzzing roar each time? and the lil snot kid at the end certainly appears ghostly to me.

(Sorry if this was pointed out but the thread is moving way to fast to track everything)

[Mizar_Panzar]

There were indeed, BIG plotholes, I just thought of another one:

1. If shepard's squadmates are alive and well (which they are according to the final scenes), then why don't they at least try to help their critically injured commander? I took Ashley and Garrus with me. There's no way they would abandon shepard in any situation, even if shepard died, they will still try to retrieve his body, or die trying.

2. How comes in the scene where Normandy crash-land on some planet, the two surviving squad-members just HAPPENED to be the two you picked with you for the final push? Where the hell did all the others go?

[BigBossBoo]

byne wrote...

strive wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

If they forced me to pay for a proper ending, I truly would never buy another EA or BioWare product again just because of how grave an insult it is. I wouldn't even buy the ending, I'd just look it up you youtube.

Same.

I dont really get this line of thinking.

If they instead decided to do the proper ending as an entirely new game, people would just be like 'Oh, ME3 was a cliffhanger, I'll have to buy ME4 to see what happens!", but if they decide to do it as DLC instead of a new game people get mad?

There is no ME4.  They said that Shepard's story ends at 3, no exceptions.  3 is the last Shepard game in ME.  That's why if there is any additional "ending" it would be a dlc.  Which would be an insult as the final ending should be apart of the game itself, not a "hey, if you want to know what actually happens, buy the ending!"

It'd be like buying a 1000 page book for 20 dollars but at the last 20 pages, you need to pay an additional 5 dollars to read the end.  Or watching a movie but having to pay another 5 dollars to see the last 15 minutes.  Not right.

[Sl4sh3r]

cryosoul wrote...

just had a holy crap moment. was digging through the codex tryin to find a QEC entry (Cause its supposedly very expensive and impractical so i was curious why the normandy had one everyone) and decided to look around having not found it (just before palavan btw).

stumbled across the Indoctrination entry under the reaper catagory in the main codex section. it was the seconed or third paragraph that stated the effects such as 'headaches and buzzing in the ear. subjects also complained of halucinations and ghostly figures speaking to them.'

don't shepards dreams tend to end with a kinda buzzing roar each time? and the lil snot kid at the end certainly appears ghostly to me.

(Sorry if this was pointed out but the thread is moving way to fast to track everything)

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 12 mars 2012 - 02:56 .

[eclipso621]

If shep was indoctrinated the whole time wouldn't the protean VI.. Spelt wrong I'm sure.... Be able to tell. He knew kai leng was

[Foulpancake]

cryosoul wrote...

just had a holy crap moment. was digging through the codex tryin to find a QEC entry (Cause its supposedly very expensive and impractical so i was curious why the normandy had one everyone) and decided to look around having not found it (just before palavan btw).

stumbled across the Indoctrination entry under the reaper catagory in the main codex section. it was the seconed or third paragraph that stated the effects such as 'headaches and buzzing in the ear. subjects also complained of halucinations and ghostly figures speaking to them.'

don't shepards dreams tend to end with a kinda buzzing roar each time? and the lil snot kid at the end certainly appears ghostly to me.

(Sorry if this was pointed out but the thread is moving way to fast to track everything)

yes it was, but it looks largely overlooked thusfar but yes i agree. I saw the "Ghostly figures" thing and i'm like "holy ****!? why else would creepy little god-child thing appear like a ghost"

[Elmogaming]

cryosoul wrote...

just had a holy crap moment. was digging through the codex tryin to find a QEC entry (Cause its supposedly very expensive and impractical so i was curious why the normandy had one everyone) and decided to look around having not found it (just before palavan btw).

stumbled across the Indoctrination entry under the reaper catagory in the main codex section. it was the seconed or third paragraph that stated the effects such as 'headaches and buzzing in the ear. subjects also complained of halucinations and ghostly figures speaking to them.'

don't shepards dreams tend to end with a kinda buzzing roar each time? and the lil snot kid at the end certainly appears ghostly to me.

(Sorry if this was pointed out but the thread is moving way to fast to track everything)

Bam! got everything at once
Nice find

[LenabotSE]

oh_saki wrote...

I still think it's kind of a stretch. I assume the indoc devices you guys are talking about is like the IFF Shep got in ME2? That doesn't explain Ashley or Kaiden, both of whom were never aboard Normandy during ME2 but neither of whom, so far as I can tell, are submitting to indoctrination. And what about EDI? Though she was in ME2, she isn't really a person, can Reapers indoc an AI? Thus far, I think that this theory is the least likely.

I think the key thing here is not that Vega's new to the indoctrination, but rather that he's new to the whole thing.  It's a simple matter of Vega just making an astute observation.  The rest of the crew is so worried about the mission they've been working on for years, and all their own problems, that they only focus on the big picture.  Vega's not stupid, but he's someone that simplifies things.  It's a clarity that comes from not over-thinking.  

Like how children can point to the source of a problem that adults never bothered to see because they were too busy trying to "analyze" things.

I don't think the crew is indoctrinated.  I think the Reapers specificially have it out for Shepard - the beacon of hope - and Shep might be more vulnerable due to all the cybernetic implants.  I was expecting them to fully explain the Lazarus project and state that Shepard's brain was fixed with Reaper tech, much like EDI was, but they never did.

Modifié par LenabotSE, 12 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[oh_saki]

lookingglassmind wrote...


I'm not saying Vega was indoctrinated. I'm saying that he is able to sense an indoctrination device. For him, it manifests as a hum (infrasonic waves). For Kaidan in ME1, he had headaches and pain in his teeth when he was next to Reaper artifacts. So, while I'm not submitting fully to the theory that an indoctrination device was aboard, or that EDI was the source of the indoctrination, I'm thinking that this observation about the Citadel makes the argument a tiny bit stronger that Vega serves as the indoctrination alarm for Shepard on the Normandy.

I still can't buy it, especially with the Prothean VI thing. One would imagine that if there was Reaper indoc present onboard Normandy, at least Garrus would also be affected. The last time I was on the thread a few hours ago I heard the argument about the Prothean VI, saying Shep is nearly as much synthetic as he is organic at this point due to being rebuilt, so the VI didn't notice the indoc on him, but Garrus is still fine and the VI doesn't say anything about him.

[John Never Dies]

eclipso621 wrote...

If shep was indoctrinated the whole time wouldn't the protean VI.. Spelt wrong I'm sure.... Be able to tell. He knew kai leng was

Shep has the cipher. It could well make the VI unable to read it.

Modifié par John Never Dies, 12 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[Lambchopz]

oh_saki wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

* Vega seems to be a voice of reason, if only because he's so new to the whole thing.  "It's like the Citadel was made to keep people calm."  I actually agree with some comments that, since its a critical Reaper device, it could be engineered to promote a sense of tranquility and submission.  Maybe, apart from genetic meddling, that's why the Keepers are so docile.

Wow. This actually HELPS our Vega argument even more -- that he is the only squad member that wasn't pre-exposed to indoctrination devices before getting onto the Normandy. This explains his ability to hear the hum, as well as be aware of the Citadel's affect on people's behaviour.

I still think it's kind of a stretch. I assume the indoc devices you guys are talking about is like the IFF Shep got in ME2? That doesn't explain Ashley or Kaiden, both of whom were never aboard Normandy during ME2 but neither of whom, so far as I can tell, are submitting to indoctrination. And what about EDI? Though she was in ME2, she isn't really a person, can Reapers indoc an AI? Thus far, I think that this theory is the least likely.

I'm still in favor of Shep getting indoc'd after the Reaper blast on Earth. Someone mentioned why if Harby knew Shep was alive why didn't he kill Shep instead of try to indoc him? Well, maybe Harbinger didn't know Shep was alive. And so far as I can tell, indoc is through osmosis, just the fact that you're near Reaper or Reaper tech you start to get indoc'd. I think of it as more of a passive action then the Reapers making specific choices and saying "Okay, we'll indoc you but not you". Of course, I could be wrong, and if I am, feel free to correct me about it.

Reaper indoctrination, particularly the slow process kind we are talking about with Shepard, is a very subtle process. It's covered in the codex, but you basically never know you're indocrinated until it is finally complete. You are basically "reprogrammed" at the most basic levels. You never know the difference. This slower process of indoctrinating also allows for more sustainable puppets, according to the codex. Where somebody who is rapidly indoctrinated would essentially loose their mind in a matter of days or weeks after it's completed, this style would allow a puppet to be used for months upon months by the Reapers. Harbinger clearly sees Shepard as the epitome of her species, so it would make sense he would go for her.


Also, Shepard resisting indoctrination like this would basically be a huge personal victory for Shep. A huge **** you to the Reapers, who up until the end think they can basically do whatever they want and mess with whoever they want. This would pretty much dissprove that once and for all.

[lookingglassmind]

Foulpancake wrote...

yes it was, but it looks largely overlooked thusfar but yes i agree. I saw the "Ghostly figures" thing and i'm like "holy ****!? why else would creepy little god-child thing appear like a ghost"

It hasn't been overlooked. It was discussed in detail about 50 pages back.

That is the problem with this thread. It's on its second wave of new believers. Each new wave comes with people realizing the same things that have been posted, but have been buried in pages of text that would take too long for people to read.

So, I hope that Byne, the OP, continues to update the front page with our observations. This will help reduce the number of restatements and old revelations that are posted as new truth (and people getting mad about when others don't acknowledge them).

Modifié par lookingglassmind, 12 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[blooregard]

byne wrote...

strive wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

If they forced me to pay for a proper ending, I truly would never buy another EA or BioWare product again just because of how grave an insult it is. I wouldn't even buy the ending, I'd just look it up you youtube.

Same.

I dont really get this line of thinking.

If they instead decided to do the proper ending as an entirely new game, people would just be like 'Oh, ME3 was a cliffhanger, I'll have to buy ME4 to see what happens!", but if they decide to do it as DLC instead of a new game people get mad?

My standing policy is if the devs say it will be 3 games long I'm sticking that to them. If they go over their "3 game" promise with other games that are in the same universe but aren't continuations of the trilogy's main character I'm fine with that but if they turn around and say "herp derp halo 4" there's no way I'm giving them money they're obviously just trying to milk from us at that point

[BlackDragonBane]

John Never Dies wrote...

eclipso621 wrote...

If shep was indoctrinated the whole time wouldn't the protean VI.. Spelt wrong I'm sure.... Be able to tell. He knew kai leng was

Shep has the cipher. It could well make the VI unable to read it.

I find myself agreeing with the line of thinking that since Shepard's mind reflected that of a Prothean, it may have been more difficult for the Prothean VI to detect the fact that Shepard was partially indoctrinated. It could also mean that in order for the Prothean VI to detect indoctrination in an individual, it has to be at a certain level before alarms start going off.

[k8ee]

BigBossBoo wrote...

byne wrote...

strive wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

If they forced me to pay for a proper ending, I truly would never buy another EA or BioWare product again just because of how grave an insult it is. I wouldn't even buy the ending, I'd just look it up you youtube.

Same.

I dont really get this line of thinking.

If they instead decided to do the proper ending as an entirely new game, people would just be like 'Oh, ME3 was a cliffhanger, I'll have to buy ME4 to see what happens!", but if they decide to do it as DLC instead of a new game people get mad?

There is no ME4.  They said that Shepard's story ends at 3, no exceptions.  3 is the last Shepard game in ME.  That's why if there is any additional "ending" it would be a dlc.  Which would be an insult as the final ending should be apart of the game itself, not a "hey, if you want to know what actually happens, buy the ending!"

It'd be like buying a 1000 page book for 20 dollars but at the last 20 pages, you need to pay an additional 5 dollars to read the end.  Or watching a movie but having to pay another 5 dollars to see the last 15 minutes.  Not right.

All this discussion about paying for a dlc and real ending is a moot point. It's not on topic really. Besides, you got the alliance network pass, you wouldn't be paying for anything. In theory.

[k8ee]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

yes it was, but it looks largely overlooked thusfar but yes i agree. I saw the "Ghostly figures" thing and i'm like "holy ****!? why else would creepy little god-child thing appear like a ghost"

It hasn't been overlooked. It was discussed in detail about 50 pages back.

That is the problem with this thread. It's on its second wave of new believers. Each new wave comes with people realizing the same things that have been posted, but have been buried in pages of text that would take too long for people to read.

So, I hope that Byne, the OP, continues to update the front page with our observations. This will help reduce the number of restatements and old revelations that are posted as new truth (and people getting mad about when others don't acknowledge them).

I do not envy the OP - probably never planned on having to babysit a thread liket his;)

It is funny though how new people appear and realize the same things. Makes me feel less crazy

[lookingglassmind]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

John Never Dies wrote...

eclipso621 wrote...

If shep was indoctrinated the whole time wouldn't the protean VI.. Spelt wrong I'm sure.... Be able to tell. He knew kai leng was

Shep has the cipher. It could well make the VI unable to read it.

I find myself agreeing with the line of thinking that since Shepard's mind reflected that of a Prothean, it may have been more difficult for the Prothean VI to detect the fact that Shepard was partially indoctrinated. It could also mean that in order for the Prothean VI to detect indoctrination in an individual, it has to be at a certain level before alarms start going off.

Hey, nice.

[FugitiveMind]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

yes it was, but it looks largely overlooked thusfar but yes i agree. I saw the "Ghostly figures" thing and i'm like "holy ****!? why else would creepy little god-child thing appear like a ghost"

It hasn't been overlooked. It was discussed in detail about 50 pages back.

That is the problem with this thread. It's on its second wave of new believers. Each new wave comes with people realizing the same things that have been posted, but have been buried in pages of text that would take too long for people to read.

So, I hope that Byne, the OP, continues to update the front page with our observations. This will help reduce the number of restatements and old revelations that are posted as new truth (and people getting mad about when others don't acknowledge them).

It's almost like every 50(thousand) pages the cycle is forced to repeat itself.

Having gotten this far you have 3 choices in this theory:
Red: it's a hallucination brought on by indoctrination
Green: it's all a dream
Blue: that's all we're getting you're wasting your time

Of course regardless of which one you pick, the result is the same:
your hope is still dead, and we're all stranded on a planet with no hope of a response until at least tomorrow...

[MissMaster_2]

I really think BW is giving us the tools to figure this out on our own. We are 3 games in, we should know what indoctrination looks like now.

[AnathamaDye]

I thought that my Shepard was dreaming right after she woke up. The whole unlimited ammo thing and the reversed colors thing was confusing me. Also considering how Anderson was so far ahead of me.

[Marik88]

ending was terrible, at this point it'll be best to forget that ever happened. Bioware, give us dlc with a real ending