57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Jymm]

Sorry, kind of jumping waaaay back on this one. I only finished the game a few days ago and one of the things that most bothered me was the fact that the entire end bit from the red laser beam on was so heavily tilted toward a dream sequence. I thus concluded that whatever nonsense went on after that I couldn't even feel victorious in destroying the reapers because my Shepard was actually lying as a lifeless corpse on the streets of London while the Reapers continued to exterminate all sentient life. That red wave ending was just wishful thinking as her last blood seeped out. It was powerfully depressing.

Then the next evening I finally allowed myself to go read all the internet and forum spoiler stuff about the ending. And I found you Indoctrination Theory people. IT fits everything I found problematic about the endings and turns it into an ingenious plot device. So I guess even if Bioware never acknowledges it, I'll have to hold the line in my own head in order to have any peace with this. I have over 200 hours invested in this gameworld and I can't have it go out like that.

So thanks for the thread and keep on keepin' on.

[Jadebaby]

Will see you guys after PAX, going back to writing my fanfic ending, its extremely long and complex! Forum distracting too much, too much hype atm.

"Releasing control of this forum."

[Dance Craze]

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

byne wrote...

Before I go to bed, I want to say one thing I would like you guys to keep in mind about today's DLC announcement:

It literally changes nothing, nor gives new information we didnt already have.

Bioware has been saying for the past few weeks that they were planning content to expand more upon the endings, but that they had no plans for entirely new endings.

All the announcement today did was make that official, and clarify what exactly they meant.

All you people who are losing hope in IT need to keep in mind the fact that nothing has changed.

Good night. <3

Byne-Commander has spoken. Troops renew your faith, for we still have one last battle. We will fight, we will strive, we will persevere. 
THEY CAN TAKE OUR ENDINGS,, BUT THEY WILL NEVER TAKE OUR THEORIES!!!!

Maybe they just want us to THINK this is the end! Another indoctrination theory is born!

[Big G13]

Fhaarkas wrote...

Quite why there were so many peeps expecting a 'lost chapter' I can't quite comprehend. From the very beginning I always expected IT to be clarified or reinforced with only cutscenes and cinematics.

My 1 1/2 cents Worth Train of Thoughts:

[Assuming there are some hidden plots - IT or not]
The sequence with Starchild was the "encounter with god" moment for the game, the final test/fight. And what can logically follow for me is only a conclusion (or in this case a clarification) and not further conflicts or boss fights. To do otherwise would be to take away the significance of that final sequence.

Why wasn't this in the plan?

Remember that rumor about how ME 3 ending was hijacked at the last minute? This quote always makes sense to me on why the ending felt rather.. cryptic and non-sensical to a lot of people.

The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending.

It might or might not be true, but it would provide a possible explaination on why they weren't quite expecting the kind of backlash that they got.

I like to think that they (or allegedly, Hudson and Walters) were trying to pull an Inception-kind of ending (where the viewer is mindf***ed in the end). What they seemed to forget is that this is a 5-year long saga, with 100+ hours spent between the three games. It is not a 2-hour film where it's relatively easy to keep your attention to details. Details are lost, and I bet very few people would have gotten it if not for the post-game analysis and research. I know I didn't.

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable. Even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people - debating what the endings mean and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in."

And now, since so many players didn't get/appreciate it (and honestly, who can blame them? Players were totally caught off-guard - here they were expecting the final fight to be some epic battle scenes a la LOTR but they got a Deus Ex Machina a la Matrix instead) they're gonna have to 'clarify' and 'expand' it. I read this as 'to reinforce the possibility of a hidden plot, while neither confirming nor denying it. Oh, closures too.'

[Assuming there are no hidden plots - everything that happened (in the finale), happened] 
For me this is the worst case scenario.

Regardless of what they will come up with and how awesome it's gonna be, it won't take away the sentiment that the original ending sequence is full of.. well.. space magic. It won't take away the sentiment that players were RGBed and that it was all a total train wreck. It also won't take away the sentiment that players are deprived off their choices (by leaving no room for interpretations).

I don't know about you, but I find this just as unlikely to happen as a 'lost chapter.' And if it does turn out to be the case, my mind would be equally blown. The game would be unforgettable alright - as the game that killed BioWare. Would they have a death wish?

.
..
...
....
Great.. I've lost my train. 

Anyway, I'm not even a writer so what do I know. inb4 this post get pluto-ed omega-ed. Cheers.

You didn't loose it. It wrecked some where in the ME3 ending.

[Eshaye]

Night Byne!

@Fhaarkas Really nice post, it makes sense and makes me wish that Drew K. had been around for ME3 because it seems to me that his writing and Casey's direction = magic. And not the crappy space kind either.

Modifié par Eshaye, 06 avril 2012 - 04:26 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Kyzee wrote...

Shameless bump; hoping for answer.

Kyzee wrote...

Okay, I've evidently missed something: the extended cut is *still* going to leave things open for interpretation? Where was this said?

I believe people are interpretating the phrase "keeps the teams artistic vision intact" as that. I don't  feel like looking up the release to find a part that says "open for interpretation" so I'm going with that. Since the endings don't "change" and they are "clarifying" things, you can say that things will still be open for interpretation. As I've said before, we'll have to wait and see .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Gilgamesh117 wrote...

byne wrote...

Before I go to bed, I want to say one thing I would like you guys to keep in mind about today's DLC announcement:

It literally changes nothing, nor gives new information we didnt already have.

Bioware has been saying for the past few weeks that they were planning content to expand more upon the endings, but that they had no plans for entirely new endings.

All the announcement today did was make that official, and clarify what exactly they meant.

All you people who are losing hope in IT need to keep in mind the fact that nothing has changed.

Good night. <3

Byne-Commander has spoken. Troops renew your faith, for we still have one last battle. We will fight, we will strive, we will persevere. 
THEY CAN TAKE OUR ENDINGS,, BUT THEY WILL NEVER TAKE OUR THEORIES!!!!

Salute!
Theorize make  all things possible, don't let go of your hope people.

[Eshaye]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

Shameless bump; hoping for answer.

Kyzee wrote...

Okay, I've evidently missed something: the extended cut is *still* going to leave things open for interpretation? Where was this said?

I believe people are interpretating the phrase "keeps the teams artistic vision intact" as that. I don't  feel like looking up the release to find a part that says "open for interpretation" so I'm going with that. Since the endings don't "change" and they are "clarifying" things, you can say that things will still be open for interpretation. As I've said before, we'll have to wait and see .

If I remember right to this afternoon Jessica's tweets said something like this, that the ending would still be open for the player's interpretation and she likes this theory. <3

[Big Bad]

Blind Rapture wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

IT or bust, and IT doesn't seem likely anymore. Literal ending is as bad as really terrible anime as far as the writing goes.

I would like to make an addendum. If we actually get to see Liara with a little blue baby, I will forgive everything (who could resist that?)! But considering the Tali's face debacle, that's even less likely than the IT still being true!

What was the Tali's face debacle?  I apparently missed that one.

[Kyzee]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

Shameless bump; hoping for answer.

Kyzee wrote...

Okay, I've evidently missed something: the extended cut is *still* going to leave things open for interpretation? Where was this said?

I believe people are interpretating the phrase "keeps the teams artistic vision intact" as that. I don't  feel like looking up the release to find a part that says "open for interpretation" so I'm going with that. Since the endings don't "change" and they are "clarifying" things, you can say that things will still be open for interpretation. As I've said before, we'll have to wait and see .

Hm. Figured as much. It wouldn't make any sense for Bioware to say they're going to give more closure to the fans, but leave things open tp interpretation. Kinda a contradiction there.

[Dance Craze]

Hey, theories can stick around for a long while... just look at relativity... Look at it!!!!

[Blind Rapture]

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

IT or bust, and IT doesn't seem likely anymore. Literal ending is as bad as really terrible anime as far as the writing goes.

I would like to make an addendum. If we actually get to see Liara with a little blue baby, I will forgive everything (who could resist that?)! But considering the Tali's face debacle, that's even less likely than the IT still being true!

What was the Tali's face debacle?  I apparently missed that one.

i.imgur.com/4NNv6.jpg

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Blind Rapture wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

IT or bust, and IT doesn't seem likely anymore. Literal ending is as bad as really terrible anime as far as the writing goes.

I would like to make an addendum. If we actually get to see Liara with a little blue baby, I will forgive everything (who could resist that?)! But considering the Tali's face debacle, that's even less likely than the IT still being true!

What was the Tali's face debacle?  I apparently missed that one.

i.imgur.com/4NNv6.jpg

Now that i can see the picture clearly I kinda like it. Always knew Tali was hiding a beautiful alien face. Although, I expected Turian-like tendrils, not hair since Humans appear to be the only species in the galaxy to still have hair ... Hmm.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 06 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[Dance Craze]

And it is a royalty free photo on top of all of it

[Big Bad]

Blind Rapture wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

IT or bust, and IT doesn't seem likely anymore. Literal ending is as bad as really terrible anime as far as the writing goes.

I would like to make an addendum. If we actually get to see Liara with a little blue baby, I will forgive everything (who could resist that?)! But considering the Tali's face debacle, that's even less likely than the IT still being true!

What was the Tali's face debacle?  I apparently missed that one.

i.imgur.com/4NNv6.jpg

LOL.  I really liked that moment in the game when you see her picture - I guess I will just have to choose to not care about the stock photo usage.

[Kyzee]

Eshaye wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

Shameless bump; hoping for answer.

Kyzee wrote...

Okay, I've evidently missed something: the extended cut is *still* going to leave things open for interpretation? Where was this said?

I believe people are interpretating the phrase "keeps the teams artistic vision intact" as that. I don't  feel like looking up the release to find a part that says "open for interpretation" so I'm going with that. Since the endings don't "change" and they are "clarifying" things, you can say that things will still be open for interpretation. As I've said before, we'll have to wait and see .

If I remember right to this afternoon Jessica's tweets said something like this, that the ending would still be open for the player's interpretation and she likes this theory. <3

Huh. Just looked through her tweets and didn't see anything like that. I suspect fan interpretation. And like I said, it'd really make no sense for them to go that route when lack of clarity was a major thing that ticked people off.

But if she did indeed say that, then I'm worried. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

IT or bust, and IT doesn't seem likely anymore. Literal ending is as bad as really terrible anime as far as the writing goes.

I would like to make an addendum. If we actually get to see Liara with a little blue baby, I will forgive everything (who could resist that?)! But considering the Tali's face debacle, that's even less likely than the IT still being true!

What was the Tali's face debacle?  I apparently missed that one.

i.imgur.com/4NNv6.jpg

LOL.  I really liked that moment in the game when you see her picture - I guess I will just have to choose to not care about the stock photo usage.

Same here . Still wish you could see her in game without the helmet, she takes the mask off at least once no mater what Shepard you have but with her back turned.

[Rifneno]

Fhaarkas wrote...

The sequence with Starchild was the "encounter with god" moment for the game, the final test/fight. And what can logically follow for me is only a conclusion (or in this case a clarification) and not further conflicts or boss fights. To do otherwise would be to take away the significance of that final sequence.

I agree with most of what you said, but I very strongly disagree with this. To do otherwise would take away the significance of the "encounter with god" moment? Just the opposite. To leave it as an "encounter with god" moment would take away from the entire rest of the series. There's been some references in naming, but religion itself has never been a major part, or even a minor part of Mass Effect. There's some Christian symbolism in it, yeah. There's also some Greek mythology symbolism. Why not have ****ing Zeus and Hera pop out at the end while we're at it?

Incorporating truly powerful deities into stories like this is nearly impossible. Either they're the villain and you wind up with the "final boss is god" trope that's been beaten into the ground, mostly by jRPGs... or you have a non-evil deity that could fix everything by twitching his nose like Elizabeth Montgomery but isn't going to. For some reason. And the third option, the one we have used here: the worst of both worlds. An evil deity that isn't even dealt with. It's just a terrible idea all-round.

[MegumiAzusa]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

So I have officially come out and apologised for my part in pushing IT as truth here:
http://social.biowar...ndex/11058193/1
There aren't many that were hoping it was real more then me. Today's announcement has left me extreamly sad and dissapointed. I kinda feel like i'm losing a friend. I don't think I can follow Bioware through this anymore.

Then you were maybe hoping but never really believing it yourself. The announcement changed nothing in regard if it's real or not.

[clennon8]

Yeah, next to the endings, Tali's reveal is the next biggest disappointment in the game for me.

[Big Bad]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

Blind Rapture wrote...

IT or bust, and IT doesn't seem likely anymore. Literal ending is as bad as really terrible anime as far as the writing goes.

I would like to make an addendum. If we actually get to see Liara with a little blue baby, I will forgive everything (who could resist that?)! But considering the Tali's face debacle, that's even less likely than the IT still being true!

What was the Tali's face debacle?  I apparently missed that one.

i.imgur.com/4NNv6.jpg

LOL.  I really liked that moment in the game when you see her picture - I guess I will just have to choose to not care about the stock photo usage.

Same here . Still wish you could see her in game without the helmet, she takes the mask off at least once no mater what Shepard you have but with her back turned.

That was such a cruel tease.  I still like the photo, I guess.  It just seems fitting somehow.

<3 Tali

[Dance Craze]

There is much better tali face fan art out there

[Kyzee]

Rifneno wrote...

Fhaarkas wrote...

The sequence with Starchild was the "encounter with god" moment for the game, the final test/fight. And what can logically follow for me is only a conclusion (or in this case a clarification) and not further conflicts or boss fights. To do otherwise would be to take away the significance of that final sequence.

I agree with most of what you said, but I very strongly disagree with this. To do otherwise would take away the significance of the "encounter with god" moment? Just the opposite. To leave it as an "encounter with god" moment would take away from the entire rest of the series. There's been some references in naming, but religion itself has never been a major part, or even a minor part of Mass Effect. There's some Christian symbolism in it, yeah. There's also some Greek mythology symbolism. Why not have ****ing Zeus and Hera pop out at the end while we're at it?

Incorporating truly powerful deities into stories like this is nearly impossible. Either they're the villain and you wind up with the "final boss is god" trope that's been beaten into the ground, mostly by jRPGs... or you have a non-evil deity that could fix everything by twitching his nose like Elizabeth Montgomery but isn't going to. For some reason. And the third option, the one we have used here: the worst of both worlds. An evil deity that isn't even dealt with. It's just a terrible idea all-round.

Agreed. 

Lord, I just had a painful Star Trek V: The Final Frontier flashback. ::groan::

[N7L4D]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

So I have officially come out and apologised for my part in pushing IT as truth here:
http://social.biowar...ndex/11058193/1
There aren't many that were hoping it was real more then me. Today's announcement has left me extreamly sad and dissapointed. I kinda feel like i'm losing a friend. I don't think I can follow Bioware through this anymore.

Then you were maybe hoping but never really believing it yourself. The announcement changed nothing in regard if it's real or not.

Exactly

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Dance Craze wrote...

There is much better tali face fan art out there

In Bioware's defense, it is their game . I suspect they never intended to show the gamers her face, the suit and helmet is what we've gotten to know her by. In my opinion I believe it's enough to know my Shepards were able to see her face.

Now...We just need Bioware to make some stock photos of those little Blue Babies!