57139 réponses à ce sujet

[gunslinger_ruiz]

llbountyhunter wrote...

 

LOL that's awesome!

[kilgorek]

Only problem is, one of the great hopes of the IT was that Bioware would be continuing the story from where Shepard wakes up. This "Extended Cut" pretty much confirms that this will not be the case. Unless of course they are planning an ME 4. But I can't imagine that could make up an entire game.

[Suparaddy]

[Fhaarkas]

Rifneno wrote...

Fhaarkas wrote...

The sequence with Starchild was the "encounter with god" moment for the game, the final test/fight. And what can logically follow for me is only a conclusion (or in this case a clarification) and not further conflicts or boss fights. To do otherwise would be to take away the significance of that final sequence.

I agree with most of what you said, but I very strongly disagree with this. To do otherwise would take away the significance of the "encounter with god" moment? Just the opposite. To leave it as an "encounter with god" moment would take away from the entire rest of the series. There's been some references in naming, but religion itself has never been a major part, or even a minor part of Mass Effect. There's some Christian symbolism in it, yeah. There's also some Greek mythology symbolism. Why not have ****ing Zeus and Hera pop out at the end while we're at it?

Incorporating truly powerful deities into stories like this is nearly impossible. Either they're the villain and you wind up with the "final boss is god" trope that's been beaten into the ground, mostly by jRPGs... or you have a non-evil deity that could fix everything by twitching his nose like Elizabeth Montgomery but isn't going to. For some reason. And the third option, the one we have used here: the worst of both worlds. An evil deity that isn't even dealt with. It's just a terrible idea all-round.

That second part was actually added later so it's kinda like an afterthought, sorry . I didn't mean that Starchild is a "god entity" suddenly introduced in the game. Far from it.

In Indoctrination Theory, Starchild is stated to be an illusion created by Harbinger/the Reapers and that final encounter is their final attempt to defeat Shepard's will. There can be a myriad of reasons why they couldn't have just killed him instead of trying to turn him over and over (test of worthiness, too impressed, keep him later for something etc) but that's another topic.

The important thing is, the encounter is the moment of truth for Shepard (and more importantly US), and that's the significance that I meant. For Indoctrination Theory, this encounter is the apex of the whole story. What happens next should be just some snowballing effect resulting from this, which is why a 'lost chapter' doesn't make much sense to me, comparatively.

On the other hand, if the ending is to be taken on face value, I totally agree that Starchild did nothing but destroy everything established. No sense can be made whatsoever for his existence. He's been there all along in the Citadel? What?

I think the ending was supposed to invoke these questions, without compromising its integrity (aka what Hudson and Walters tried to do, allegedly) -

Shepard - did the final sequence really happen or was he hallucinating/in limbo/mind-trapped?
Starchild - was he really the creator of Reapers or just a projection?
Final scene (destruction/victory and closure for characters) - did it all happen or was it Shepard's vision of what he thought would've happened (fate of the crew would remain unknown)?
Breath - was it on Citadel or Earth?
Crucible - was it a weapon or something else entirely?

Well, the questions are invoked alright but the believability and integrity of one possibility was thrown out of the window. I think we all know which one. 

Modifié par Fhaarkas, 06 avril 2012 - 06:15 .

[savagejuicebox]

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

Modifié par savagejuicebox, 06 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[DreamTension]

Wow....The InternetS are a horrible place sometimes.

[jules_vern18]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

fanatical groupthink is fanatical groupthink.

[Leonia]

What was the point of putting that image up other than trying to rile people up? If you don't agree with the discussion in the thread, you are not obligated to post in the thread.

[savagejuicebox]

jules_vern18 wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

fanatical groupthink is fanatical groupthink.

Its a video game and we have imaginations, what exactly have we done that you would call "fanatical"?


edit: and this comparison was tasteless and uncalled for.

Modifié par savagejuicebox, 06 avril 2012 - 06:18 .

[Suparaddy]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

Comparing the reapers to ****'s actually....

[savagejuicebox]

Suparaddy wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

Comparing the reapers to ****'s actually....

Mhmm...then why say anything about it being a theory?

[Suparaddy]

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

Comparing the reapers to ****'s actually....

Mhmm...then why say anything about it being a theory?

Because it's not a theory, it's proven fact.  RE: SS squads, Himler, and Goebbels(spelling?)

[savagejuicebox]

Blah... trolls.

[Rifneno]

I don't know. I didn't immediately assume the **** motivational was calling us ****s. I thought it was just a joke about real life's version of indoctrination. *shrug*

Fhaarkas wrote...
That second part was actually added later so it's kinda like an afterthought, sorry . I didn't mean that Starchild is a "god entity" suddenly introduced in the game. Far from it.

In Indoctrination Theory, Starchild is stated to be an illusion created by Harbinger/the Reapers and that final encounter is their final attempt to defeat Shepard's will. There can be a myriad of reasons why they couldn't have just killed him instead of trying to turn him over and over (test of worthiness, too impressed, keep him later for something etc) but that's another topic.

The important thing is, the encounter is the moment of truth for Shepard (and more importantly US), and that's the significance that I meant. For Indoctrination Theory, this encounter is the apex of the whole story. What happens next should be just some snowballing effect resulting from this, which is why a 'lost chapter' doesn't make much sense to me, comparatively.

On the other hand, if the ending is to be taken on face value, I totally agree that Starchild did nothing but destroy everything established. No sense can be made whatsoever for his existence. He's been there all along in the Citadel? What?

I think the ending was supposed to invoke these questions, without compromising its integrity (aka what Hudson and Walters tried to do, allegedly) -

Shepard - did the final sequence really happen or was he hallucinating/in limbo/mind-trapped?
Starchild - was he really the creator of Reapers or just a projection?
Final scene (destruction/victory and closure for characters) - did it all happen or was it Shepard's vision of what he thought would've happened (fate of the crew would remain unknown)?
Breath - was it on Citadel or Earth?
Crucible - was it a weapon or something else entirely?

Well, the questions are invoked alright but the believability and integrity of one possibility was thrown out of the window. I think we all know which one.

Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Though I still don't see why everything that happens after should be a snowballing effect. Unless the end result is a Reaper victory from Shepard being indoctrinated. I mean, if Shepard beats the indoctrination that doesn't do anything except save his mind. The galaxy is still under siege from a countless horde of metal Cthulus. How does Shepard being the indoctrination snowball into their defeat?

I suppose there's the Crucible, but is it really likely that it's anything except a Reaper trap? Even if it wasn't, we still don't have a clue what it does. It's basically just a giant MacGuffin. And not a very good one. Yet conventional warfare isn't going to cut it. The story was quite clear on that. So I don't see how a "lost chapters" wouldn't be almost obligatory.

[CLB17]

Suparaddy wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

savagejuicebox wrote...

Suparaddy wrote...

Comparing us to N@zis, how classy of you. <_<

Comparing the reapers to ****'s actually....

Mhmm...then why say anything about it being a theory?

Because it's not a theory, it's proven fact.  RE: SS squads, Himler, and Goebbels(spelling?)

"Godwin's law[/b] (also known as Godwin's Rule of **** Analogies[/b] or Godwin's Law of **** Analogies[/b][1][2]) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving ****s or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any[/i] online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the ****s."

[Suparaddy]

In all seriousness though, the people who stood by the IT shouldn't have to apologize for anything. The endings, being ambiguous and open to WAY too much speculation, didn't offer any concrete evidence to refute the theory, so IT supporters were free to think what they wanted to.

Just like I could've said Shep bit down on an Ice cream sandwich and was magically teleported to Hogwarts where he aided in the final battle against Voldemort before Hermione apparated him back to Gilligan's Planet. Is there any evidence to the contrary at this point? No, therefore I can consider this canon until Bioware clarifies what happened.

[lex0r11]

Huh? What the hell happened here? The ****s are back?

Ach du meine Guete!

[Eshaye]

kilgorek wrote...

Only problem is, one of the great hopes of the IT was that Bioware would be continuing the story from where Shepard wakes up. This "Extended Cut" pretty much confirms that this will not be the case. Unless of course they are planning an ME 4. But I can't imagine that could make up an entire game.

They could make an expansion. There used to be a time when they were almost expected. I miss those times. 

[Big G13]

Suparaddy wrote...

In all seriousness though, the people who stood by the IT shouldn't have to apologize for anything. The endings, being ambiguous and open to WAY too much speculation, didn't offer any concrete evidence to refute the theory, so IT supporters were free to think what they wanted to.

Just like I could've said Shep bit down on an Ice cream sandwich and was magically teleported to Hogwarts where he aided in the final battle against Voldemort before Hermione apparated him back to Gilligan's Planet. Is there any evidence to the contrary at this point? No, therefore I can consider this canon until Bioware clarifies what happened.

I for one am will to give you the benefit of the doubt. BUT, I your American, like me, you need to understand that this thread is international and the whole N*** thing is a sensitive issue. Good point about the ice cream sandwitch, In fact that might even have more merit, at least from a comedy perspective.

[Big G13]

lex0r11 wrote...

Huh? What the hell happened here? The ****s are back?

Ach du meine Guete!

I love you man/woman. But I have a hard enough time keeping up when everything is in english.:happy:

Modifié par Big G13, 06 avril 2012 - 06:56 .

[waldstr18]

i liked the national socialism poster fine, cause thats actually what it was; well tuned indoctrination.

so is the chinese and north korean thing by the way.

Modifié par waldstr18, 06 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[JustAidan]

Suparaddy wrote...

In all seriousness though, the people who stood by the IT shouldn't have to apologize for anything. The endings, being ambiguous and open to WAY too much speculation, didn't offer any concrete evidence to refute the theory, so IT supporters were free to think what they wanted to.

Just like I could've said Shep bit down on an Ice cream sandwich and was magically teleported to Hogwarts where he aided in the final battle against Voldemort before Hermione apparated him back to Gilligan's Planet. Is there any evidence to the contrary at this point? No, therefore I can consider this canon until Bioware clarifies what happened.

Thanks, it is great to see a reasonable person come in and post on the thread.

Personally I am suspecting that the entire reason for the ending now was to never give any firm resolution to the players. Instead giving them an ambiguous ending which the viewers can debate about for years. ("Lots of Speculation").

Pretty ****ty storytelling to make the main storyline ambiguous (a good example with would thinking about just how much emotion and sentiment does Legion have, it is never stated explicitly).

If this is what happened I hope it blows up in their faces even further, especially they were using ME3 to push that poor steam knock-off Origin. ( Valve have been making Steam for years, EA should look how they do it, then try and do better than that, not worse)

Modifié par JustAidan, 06 avril 2012 - 07:03 .

[lex0r11]

Big G13 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Huh? What the hell happened here? The ****s are back?

Ach du meine Guete!

I love you man/woman. But I have a hard enough time keeping up when everything is in english.:happy:

"Ach du meine Guete!" just means "Oh my gosh!" or anything with a "Goodness!" in it.

German just happens to be my second language.
Never meant to cause cunfusion.

Modifié par lex0r11, 06 avril 2012 - 07:07 .

[Big G13]

lex0r11 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Huh? What the hell happened here? The ****s are back?

Ach du meine Guete!

I love you man/woman. But I have a hard enough time keeping up when everything is in english.:happy:

"Ach du meine Guete!" just means "Dear me!" or anything with a "Goodness!" in it.

Never meant to cause cunfusion.

I was kidding. And as long you translate you can do it all you want. Maybe I'll learn something. Not making any promises, but maybe.

[Jadebaby]

anyone wanna read a bit of an indoc fanfic ending? lol