57139 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

"You aren't shown the actual process, though. You're shown individuals who have already undergone it, or might be going through it, but never the actual process. To introduce that in the last few minutes of the game, an experience the player has never witnessed, is jarring and, imo, poor design."

You know Rana Thanoptis, you see the before and after process, it also proves that indoctrination can lie dormant.

[Emperor_Ike]

I admit I've just skimmed over the 60 new pages that have sprung up since I left for work, but the gist of it seems to be 'waah IT can't work because that means Shep only survived in one ending and we can't have right or wrong choices like that, someone might get their feelings hurt' or some such manure.

And apparently all the waah-ers have completely forgotten the existence and openness of ME2, aka, 'choices, Fred; choices everywhere.' You could choose to not do loyalty missions. You could choose to go straight up the main plot path and hop right through the Omega 4 relay with as little character advancement as possible. And with that choice, your Shepard, along with his/her entire crew, dies. You literally made the wrong choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, would you like to restart from previous save? If yes, try not to f* up quite so hard this time, hmm?

So, then: how was including such 'right' and 'wrong' choices valid in a previous entry in the series, yet somehow not-at-all acceptable in the final?

IT merely opens up the possibility of furthering the narrative using a plot device for which these writers, and indeed this studio, are already famous. What could possibly be your beef?

Unrelated: great read, Jade.  Music cues fit really well, too.

[Bill Casey]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The big difference here, and this has been stated already, is that you are shown the revelation. You are factually Revan. In ME3, you are, at best, possibly indoctrinated, possibly not.

In ME3, you are shown...something. Something you've never seen before, and players attached interpretation and meaning to it to make sense of it. It isn't clearly explained, but the Revan reveal was. It made it into the final release, but if this was a planned reveal, that Shep was indoctrinated...why not show an indoctrinated Shep instead of just a waking one?.

It wasn't a planned reveal...

It was intentionally designed to be an "ambiguous ending"...
To invoke "lots of speculation... for everyone"

Like Blade Runner or Total Recall...

That didn't go over so well...

Even now they are still being intentionally ambiguous over whether or not Shepard's fighting indoctrination...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 07 avril 2012 - 06:54 .

[AnuzaGray]

I don't really understood why people openly hate and troll the IDT.

If IDT proves correct you're going to be given a second chance to make things right unless Mass Effect 3 is meant to end in a critical mission failure.

At this point it might as well.

[Lyria]

Bill Casey wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The big difference here, and this has been stated already, is that you are shown the revelation. You are factually Revan. In ME3, you are, at best, possibly indoctrinated, possibly not.

In ME3, you are shown...something. Something you've never seen before, and players attached interpretation and meaning to it to make sense of it. It isn't clearly explained, but the Revan reveal was. It made it into the final release, but if this was a planned reveal, that Shep was indoctrinated...why not show an indoctrinated Shep instead of just a waking one?.

It wasn't a planned reveal...

It was designed to be an "ambiguous ending"...
One designed to invoke "lots of speculation... for everyone"

Like Blade Runner or Total Recall...

That didn't go over so well...

As a child of the 80s/90s I can so vouch for the endings of Blade Runner and Total Recall not going over very well.

[balance5050]

Bill Casey-
"It wasn't a planned reveal..."

This is actually somethingwe may never know, after the fan backlash they don't want to be accused of selling an incomplete game, so even tho they'll say its from the fans, they could have planned it all along, they could have been playing with the idea for a long time. but we'll never know for sure.

[killnoob]

AnuzaGray wrote...

This reinforces my belief that your intellectual development is roughly on par with that of a five year old.

Your argument is inherently flawed and yet you fail to see that.

You lack the ability to counter IDT in any logical fashion and are forced to resort to saying that "it isn't true because Bioware hasn't said so".  

This does not change the fact that IDT is the best explanation for the bizarre events at the end of ME3.  Even if the DLC does not support IDT, IDT will probably remain the best explanation for the finale.

This reinforces my belief that your inllectual developement is  roughly on par with that of a space otter.

Your arguement is inherently flawed and yet you failed to see that.

You lack the ability to counter any rational arguement against non-IDT believers in any logical fashion and are forced to resort to saying that 'It is true because you can't prove it wrong"

This does not change the fact that IDT is the worst explanation for the bizarre event at the end of ME3. Even if the DLC does support IDT, IDT will probably remain the worst explanation for the finale.

[Jadebaby]

GBGriffin wrote...

1.) We're never actually shown the indoctrination process, rapid or otherwise. It might have had some effect, or maybe it wears off if not exposed to it for a certain amount of time.

 
Read Mass Effect Evolution

GBGriffin wrote...

Also, if anything, wouldn't Anderson be indoctrinated, since he spends more time on Earth / around Reapers than Shep in 3?

That seems like a troll to me.

GBGriffin wrote...

2.) My theory on this is, and always has been, that this was BioWare throwing footage in there (which may have been a part of some other ending, I don't know) t reward the player for achieving a high EMS. The incentive for this, obviously, would be to show that Shepard survived...somehow. It's a reward for the player; it doesn't have to mean anything beyond that.

While this can't be proved inaccurate, it is unlikely. They would have done it in a less suspicious way.

GBGriffin wrote...

3.) I didn't think they were cryptic. To me, it was just bad writing expressing a legitimate fear. Again, this could just be a design issue. It doesn't have to mean anything and, without the theory, it doesn't prove anything. It's just a scene of dialogue with a child.

A brick is just a brick until you build a house with it. Btw, do you like the ending yourself?

GBGriffin wrote...

4.) Again, we don't know because it isn't really explained. We don't know how the implants work, nor is it explained to us. It doesn't mean that it's in Shep's head though; it simply means they didn't explain it.

Yet..

[Lyria]

AnuzaGray wrote...

I don't really understood why people openly hate and troll the IDT.

If IDT proves correct you're going to be given a second chance to make things right unless Mass Effect 3 is meant to end in a critical mission failure.

At this point it might as well.

They're trolls?
Trolls, um, let's see, acording to the 3rd edition Monster Manual Trolls regenerate unless they take fire damage....so IT trolls will continue until Bioware confirms IT and they are burned by it. 

Or its actually  and we all become trolls and troll Bioware some more. 

[killnoob]

AnuzaGray wrote...

I don't really understood why people openly hate and troll the IDT.

If IDT proves correct you're going to be given a second chance to make things right unless Mass Effect 3 is meant to end in a critical mission failure.

At this point it might as well.

Because we hate the catalyst.

We don't want him to appear AT ALL.

Also, because we don't want fans to fix the ending for Biowares screw up.

This will only reinforce some of the egomanics who works there and think they know how to write without peer reviews.

[Fhaarkas]

GBGriffin wrote...

Fhaarkas wrote...

killnoob wrote...
the whole idea of Shepard waking up and defeat the reapers are gone.

That much is true. But that is not what IT is about.

Really? I've read otherwise, from multiple people, that this ending works because you could wake up to continue the fight.

Multiple forumers have also stated elsewhere (probably at the top of this page or on the previous page too) how it'd work out. I don't know about people hoping for more gameplay (won't blame them. That 'closure' and multi-colored explosions. Ugh) but for me IT is not supposed to be proven.

What would be the point of all those foreshadowing otherwise? For them to give the players a big "Gotcha!" moment in the end? That's just lame and if BioWare is lame they don't deserve all this attention, good or bad. In fact, I would be flat out disappointed if Shepard wakes up after that final scene and goes on banging some more Reapers.

Some people are fine with ambiguos endings, some are not. That doesn't have anything to do with IT, nor that it will ever be proven right or wrong. If it's up to me that is.

[AnuzaGray]

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

This reinforces my belief that your intellectual development is roughly on par with that of a five year old.

Your argument is inherently flawed and yet you fail to see that.

You lack the ability to counter IDT in any logical fashion and are forced to resort to saying that "it isn't true because Bioware hasn't said so".  

This does not change the fact that IDT is the best explanation for the bizarre events at the end of ME3.  Even if the DLC does not support IDT, IDT will probably remain the best explanation for the finale.

This reinforces my belief that your inllectual developement is  roughly on par with that of a space otter.

Your arguement is inherently flawed and yet you failed to see that.

You lack the ability to counter any rational arguement against non-IDT believers in any logical fashion and are forced to resort to saying that 'It is true because you can't prove it wrong"

This does not change the fact that IDT is the worst explanation for the bizarre event at the end of ME3. Even if the DLC does support IDT, IDT will probably remain the worst explanation for the finale.

Ah, that was a clever rebuttal.

Now please point out the flaws in IDT.

Oh wait, you can't because you're a stupid troll.  

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

So has pax passed? Any news? Was out of the loop for a days time.

[Jadebaby]

So anyone want to see a piece of fanfic to distract you from this debacle for 5 minutes? lol

[killnoob]

protognosis wrote...


They're trolls?
Trolls, um, let's see, acording to the 3rd edition Monster Manual Trolls regenerate unless they take fire damage....so IT trolls will continue until Bioware confirms IT and they are burned by it. 

Everyone of you IT believers are missing the point completely.

If Bioware confirms the IDT theory, it wouldn't be their story.

it would be something that YOU GUYS have come up.

It was never their intention for the IDT - if it is they would've wrote it in a more obvious manner and includes a satisfactory ending after Shepard wakes up.

But they didnt.

[Fhaarkas]

Fhaarkas wrote...
I am not sure about this, but has it been said anywhere that this DLC will reveal the fate of Shepard? Like, explicitly "fate of Commander Shepard"? Because if so, my inference is invalid then.

Can somebody answer this?

[killnoob]

AnuzaGray wrote...

Ah, that was a clever rebuttal.

Now please point out the flaws in IDT.

Oh wait, you can't because you're a stupid troll.  

Ah that was a clever rebuttal.

Now please point out the flaws of "bioware screwed up Mass effect" theory.

Oh  wait, you can't because you're stupid.

And because it's fact.

[AnuzaGray]

killnoob wrote...

protognosis wrote...


They're trolls?
Trolls, um, let's see, acording to the 3rd edition Monster Manual Trolls regenerate unless they take fire damage....so IT trolls will continue until Bioware confirms IT and they are burned by it. 

Everyone of you IT believers are missing the point completely.

If Bioware confirms the IDT theory, it wouldn't be their story.

it would be something that YOU GUYS have come up.

It was never their intention for the IDT - if it is they would've wrote it in a more obvious manner and includes a satisfactory ending after Shepard wakes up.

But they didnt.

Nice theory, pity it has even less evidence than IDT until the DLC comes out.

[balance5050]

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

I don't really understood why people openly hate and troll the IDT.

If IDT proves correct you're going to be given a second chance to make things right unless Mass Effect 3 is meant to end in a critical mission failure.

At this point it might as well.

Because we hate the catalyst.

We don't want him to appear AT ALL.

Also, because we don't want fans to fix the ending for Biowares screw up.

This will only reinforce some of the egomanics who works there and think they know how to write without peer reviews.

WHOOOSH!!! Right over your head huh? We all hate the catalyst, but unfortunatly the endings we got aren't going to change, only expand. You're supposed to hate him because he's taking away you freedom of choice, you must choose the "right" choice to open up a world of infintite choices.

[blooregard]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

So has pax passed? Any news? Was out of the loop for a days time.

the news is there is a multiplayer dlc for free with an ending clarification coming out in summer


Any more solid information would have taken away from the speculations

[killnoob]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

So has pax passed? Any news? Was out of the loop for a days time.

They announced at Pax there will be a DLC coming which includes clarification cutscenes.

No gameplays.

[Arashi08]

wait...I thought it had been brought up few pages ago that someone on the BioWare panel has said something along the lines of, they were working (focusing) on cinematics currently, but they also said they weren't ruling out gameplay. Sorry I don't have the actual quote. It is late and the post seems like it was a hundred pages back.

[balance5050]

AnuzaGray wrote...

killnoob wrote...

protognosis wrote...


They're trolls?
Trolls, um, let's see, acording to the 3rd edition Monster Manual Trolls regenerate unless they take fire damage....so IT trolls will continue until Bioware confirms IT and they are burned by it. 

Everyone of you IT believers are missing the point completely.

If Bioware confirms the IDT theory, it wouldn't be their story.

it would be something that YOU GUYS have come up.

It was never their intention for the IDT - if it is they would've wrote it in a more obvious manner and includes a satisfactory ending after Shepard wakes up.

But they didnt.

Nice theory, pity it has even less evidence than IDT until the DLC comes out.

There's actually more proof that says they DID intend for I.T.. they will never admit it except through DLC.

Modifié par balance5050, 07 avril 2012 - 07:04 .

[Fhaarkas]

killnoob wrote...

if it is they would've wrote it in a more obvious manner and includes a satisfactory ending after Shepard wakes up.

But they didnt.

If they did it correct, people are not even supposed to find out about IT until some time later.

[killnoob]

balance5050 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

I don't really understood why people openly hate and troll the IDT.

If IDT proves correct you're going to be given a second chance to make things right unless Mass Effect 3 is meant to end in a critical mission failure.

At this point it might as well.

Because we hate the catalyst.

We don't want him to appear AT ALL.

Also, because we don't want fans to fix the ending for Biowares screw up.

This will only reinforce some of the egomanics who works there and think they know how to write without peer reviews.

WHOOOSH!!! Right over your head huh? We all hate the catalyst, but unfortunatly the endings we got aren't going to change, only expand. You're supposed to hate him because he's taking away you freedom of choice, you must choose the "right" choice to open up a world of infintite choices.

How about, lets not and just accept the game's ending is gimped and get Bioware to write a new ending without catalyst?