57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Arian Dynas]

Damn it, I am going to keep spamming that script until someone listens, POINT PROVEN, IT CAN WORK IN A CINEMATIC. Thank you and goodnight.

[blooregard]

killnoob wrote...

protognosis wrote...

killnoob wrote...

protognosis wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

Nice theory, pity it has even less evidence than IDT until the DLC comes out.

Which part of the game is Shepard shown to be indoctrinated?
I must've missed it.

If it was intentional, why isn't it shown clearly, like everything happened in all past ME games?

What part?  THE ENTIRE GAME!?!?!

Exactly my point.

At which point is Shepard shown indoctrinated?

If its' not shown, then it has no place in a game like ME3.

Now if we're talking about Limbo, it would make sense.

So you agree then with my point that Shepard is indoctrinated the entire game?  Glad we've reached a consensus.  
Or did you not get I was pointing out Shepard is indoctrinated the entire game?

Which character in the past have you seen trying to fight the reapers when they're indoctrinated?

Saren = works for reapers
TIM = tries to control reapers

The premise of ME3 is gathering allies to build this giant machine to destroy the reapers.

if he was indoctrinated the whole time, or even a small part of it, we would see some doubts and confusions when he's out gathering allies.

Is that what happened? No.

Also, I can use emocon too!

Actually we do see Shepard show signs of doubt a couple times. The two most memorable ones I can think of atm are right after Mars where he asks if the crucible really will work and and after Thessia where he completely starts to fall apart.

[killnoob]

AnuzaGray wrote...

Proto, stop feeding the troll. He's getting kinda pudgy.

Best way to do it is leave the troll alone. why can't you do it?

[Emperor_Ike]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Voila, heavily edited from it's earlier draft, but here is my proof of concept, the ending CAN be made with only cutscenes.

That.. was beautiful. Listening to An End Once and For All and having it seem to time itself perfectly at the end with Harby's lines was magical, too.

[Arian Dynas]

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

Proto, stop feeding the troll. He's getting kinda pudgy.

Best way to do it is leave the troll alone. why can't you do it?

Oh, you want to be left alone now? Who died and made you Greta Garbo?

Oh... yeah, Greta Garbo did. Goddamn I feel old.

[Looper128]

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

Proto, stop feeding the troll. He's getting kinda pudgy.

Best way to do it is leave the troll alone. why can't you do it?

naaaaaaw, a pudgy troll that sounds just absolutkly adoroble

[Lyria]

Saren resisted.
TIM resisted for ~30 years.

Right....so you've played the game, right? There are points in the game where Shepard has doubts. There are points when people doubt Shepard. The whole point of figuring out IT at the end is to shed light on all the points in the past and to shed doubt on Shepard. Its referred to in the biz as the prestige/reveal. It is the point in which we now know we were tricked. It works for magic why not space magic?

Being Indoctrinated is like being a functional alcoholic (Charlie Sheen).

You have to think beyond your limitations and beyond what you've been shown and interuprt the ending. The clues are there.

Now that you've copied my use of the emoticon now you can learn how to copy my use of logic and find some.

I say to you, sir, Good Day!

[killnoob]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Damn it, I am going to keep spamming that script until someone listens, POINT PROVEN, IT CAN WORK IN A CINEMATIC. Thank you and goodnight.

Mate, I've actually read like 7 cutscene of your script.

If you wrote it, it's good.

But it still doesn't explain the purpose of Crucible. or how to use it.
If it's just a superweapon that fires reaper destruction lasers, reapers should've just destroyed it.
They relocated citedel to earth for what? to protect it.

Assuming everything is hallucination, we still don't know what the crucible does or if Shepard fired it or not.

Now if you are one of those who believed that only the star child is harbringer's attempt at indoctrination, then you will have to explain why is that kid teaching Shepard how to use the crucible.

If he had left Shepard alone, do you think Shepard can figure out how to fire the crucible on his own in his state?

You'll also have to explain why harbringer hasn't paged his reaper buddies to destroy the crucible, since he knew Shepard was going to use it.

Citedel = indestructable
Crucible = not

[Lyria]

blooregard wrote...

So would it be at all possible if bioware's unwillingness to confirm or deny the IT proves its true? Or am I getting too far down into it.

Too many redpills and rabbit holes for you my friend.

But I sorta agree with you....

[Arian Dynas]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Voila, heavily edited from it's earlier draft, but here is my proof of concept, the ending CAN be made with only cutscenes.

That.. was beautiful. Listening to An End Once and For All and having it seem to time itself perfectly at the end with Harby's lines was magical, too.

*bows and tips his hat* thank you, I pride myself in my work, if nothing else, I can end up trying one of two things, either see if Bioware is accepting writers, or just sell it as a headcanon ending generator in the event we're wrong. 

After all, if I'm right, I've proven myself smart enough to be able to write like a Bioware writer, if I'm not, then I've got a bargaining chip for a job 

http://social.biowar...ex/9727423/1313  also, link for anyone who wants to read it and not dig through pages.

[killnoob]

protognosis wrote...

Being Indoctrinated is like being a functional alcoholic (Charlie Sheen).

You have to think beyond your limitations and beyond what you've been shown and interuprt the ending. The clues are there.

Now that you've copied my use of the emoticon now you can learn how to copy my use of logic and find some.

So after fighting reapers for 3 installment Shepard succumb to indoc at the last minute?
He also hallucinate about relay explosion ( in all three endings) and his crewmates getting away in normandy?
What else did he hallucinate?

[killnoob]

Arian Dynas wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AnuzaGray wrote...

Proto, stop feeding the troll. He's getting kinda pudgy.

Best way to do it is leave the troll alone. why can't you do it?

Oh, you want to be left alone now? Who died and made you Greta Garbo?

Oh... yeah, Greta Garbo did. Goddamn I feel old.

Dont leave me alone please i love you all so much. Now fix the plotholes in your script.

Modifié par killnoob, 07 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[refuse81]

Guys, you're doing what Bioware wants. Being imaginative and creative and sticking with them, that's why they didn't refute IT. Fans being "um, creative" is a verbal version of rolling their eyes. At this point you're crediting them with better writing than they are capable of which is why they keep you on a string.

Modifié par refuse81, 07 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[killnoob]

refuse81 wrote...

Guys, you're doing what Bioware wants. Being imaginative and creative and sticking with them, that's why they didn't refute IT. Fans being "um, creative" is a verbal version of rolling their eyes. At this point you're crediting them with better writing than they are capable of which is why they keep you on a string.

i said this 500 pages ago but no one would listen.

This is not a thread for rational thinkers.

[blooregard]

protognosis wrote...

blooregard wrote...

So would it be at all possible if bioware's unwillingness to confirm or deny the IT proves its true? Or am I getting too far down into it.

Too many redpills and rabbit holes for you my friend.

But I sorta agree with you....

I just find their vague descriptions of the extended cut and their elaborate dodge move when asked about the IT  all to funny. Like they're trying to do the classic reverse psycology on us and it isn't exactly working.

[Arian Dynas]

killnoob wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Damn it, I am going to keep spamming that script until someone listens, POINT PROVEN, IT CAN WORK IN A CINEMATIC. Thank you and goodnight.

Mate, I've actually read like 7 cutscene of your script.

If you wrote it, it's good.

But it still doesn't explain the purpose of Crucible. or how to use it.
If it's just a superweapon that fires reaper destruction lasers, reapers should've just destroyed it.
They relocated citedel to earth for what? to protect it.

Assuming everything is hallucination, we still don't know what the crucible does or if Shepard fired it or not.

Now if you are one of those who believed that only the star child is harbringer's attempt at indoctrination, then you will have to explain why is that kid teaching Shepard how to use the crucible.

If he had left Shepard alone, do you think Shepard can figure out how to fire the crucible on his own in his state?

You'll also have to explain why harbringer hasn't paged his reaper buddies to destroy the crucible, since he knew Shepard was going to use it.

Citedel = indestructable
Crucible = not

First off, thank you for the compliment, it means that I can respect you as a human being. since you can have an opinion that can defy mere trollishness.

Thing is though, to my knowledge, the Citadel isn't even NEAR Earth, it's still sitting, untouched in the Widow Nebula. (haven't managed to play that far yet, so if I'm wrong, wait a few days to tell me. I've seen the endings from the point where Harbinger nails Shep with a beam, and know a few details I wish I didn't, damn spoilers, but don't give me details for now.)

According to IDT, Shepard is not even actually ON the Crucible at all. he merely beleives he is, in fact, more than likely, the Crucible doesn't even look much like what we saw at all, Harbinger is merely using it as a convineint  (and literal) plot device. Harbinger couldn't destroy the Crucible because he doesn't know it's location, he does know that Shepard veiws it as their only hope, meaning it is easy to manipulate him into thinking that it has the power it does.

Bioware has communicated that the Crucible is supposed to be unknowable, hence why I said "leave room to explore in the future, could be alot of interesting stuff." I know there will be an ME4, part of why I beleive IDT, EA, Their stockholders, and even the writers themselves want to continue the series. If they go with the ending at face value, which I don't personally beleive, then they are killing the golden goose.

killnoob wrote...

refuse81 wrote...

Guys, you're doing what Bioware wants. Being imaginative and creative and sticking with them, that's why they didn't refute IT. Fans being "um, creative" is a verbal version of rolling their eyes. At this point you're crediting them with better writing than they are capable of which is why they keep you on a string.

i said this 500 pages ago but no one would listen.

This is not a thread for rational thinkers.

 

'Course not, you're here.


Ok. I apologize for the cheap shot.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 07 avril 2012 - 07:41 .

[Lyria]

killnoob wrote...

protognosis wrote...

Being Indoctrinated is like being a functional alcoholic (Charlie Sheen).

You have to think beyond your limitations and beyond what you've been shown and interuprt the ending. The clues are there.

Now that you've copied my use of the emoticon now you can learn how to copy my use of logic and find some.

So after fighting reapers for 3 installment Shepard succumb to indoc at the last minute?
He also hallucinate about relay explosion ( in all three endings) and his crewmates getting away in normandy?
What else did he hallucinate?

No...indoctrination is a slow process.  But the Arrival DLC is where the most logical point of Indoctrination occurs.
The explosions most likely didn't happen.  But were representations of what Shepard thought would happen.  And in each ending the explosions of the mass relays look like a pattern scan of a brain and the synapses flaring once more and dying.  Also not all Relays are active and only active relays where shown destoryed.  Moreover, in control, Repears fully control shepard, in destory Shepard beats reaper control (it does happen....in rare cases) and in Synthesis Shepard falls for the trick of being subsummed by the reapers.

And Shepard didn't fight the reapers in all 3 games.  Shepard fought a Reaper, Collectors working for Harbinger, and then finally fought a bunch of reapers.  ME1, Reapers become aware of Shepard.  ME2, Harbinger begins the process which culminates in the Arrival DLC.  ME3, Reapers begin the slow activation of Shepard, who is a sleeper agent, as a fast Indoctrination would destroy what makes Shepard, Shepard.  

[Emperor_Ike]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

I admit I've just skimmed over the 60 new pages that have sprung up since I left for work, but the gist of it seems to be 'waah IT can't work because that means Shep only survived in one ending and we can't have right or wrong choices like that, someone might get their feelings hurt' or some such manure.

And apparently all the waah-ers have completely forgotten the existence and openness of ME2, aka, 'choices, Fred; choices everywhere.' You could choose to not do loyalty missions. You could choose to go straight up the main plot path and hop right through the Omega 4 relay with as little character advancement as possible. And with that choice, your Shepard, along with his/her entire crew, dies. You literally made the wrong choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, would you like to restart from previous save? If yes, try not to f* up quite so hard this time, hmm?

So, then: how was including such 'right' and 'wrong' choices valid in a previous entry in the series, yet somehow not-at-all acceptable in the final?

IT merely opens up the possibility of furthering the narrative using a plot device for which these writers, and indeed this studio, are already famous. What could possibly be your beef?

Unrelated: great read, Jade.  Music cues fit really well, too.

Quoting oneself ftl. However, the thread appears to have slowed a little; maybe it'll get read this time.

[Lyria]

blooregard wrote...

protognosis wrote...

blooregard wrote...

So would it be at all possible if bioware's unwillingness to confirm or deny the IT proves its true? Or am I getting too far down into it.

Too many redpills and rabbit holes for you my friend.

But I sorta agree with you....

I just find their vague descriptions of the extended cut and their elaborate dodge move when asked about the IT  all to funny. Like they're trying to do the classic reverse psycology on us and it isn't exactly working.

It is working.  I guess it would be more apt to say reverse Indoctrination on us?  lol. 

But I think we should just say f'it and mix the red and blue pills together for a purple pill and see how that works out.
Who's with me?  Indoctriliteral Theory!  Its like better than space magic! 

[Arian Dynas]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

I admit I've just skimmed over the 60 new pages that have sprung up since I left for work, but the gist of it seems to be 'waah IT can't work because that means Shep only survived in one ending and we can't have right or wrong choices like that, someone might get their feelings hurt' or some such manure.

And apparently all the waah-ers have completely forgotten the existence and openness of ME2, aka, 'choices, Fred; choices everywhere.' You could choose to not do loyalty missions. You could choose to go straight up the main plot path and hop right through the Omega 4 relay with as little character advancement as possible. And with that choice, your Shepard, along with his/her entire crew, dies. You literally made the wrong choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, would you like to restart from previous save? If yes, try not to f* up quite so hard this time, hmm?

So, then: how was including such 'right' and 'wrong' choices valid in a previous entry in the series, yet somehow not-at-all acceptable in the final?

IT merely opens up the possibility of furthering the narrative using a plot device for which these writers, and indeed this studio, are already famous. What could possibly be your beef?

Unrelated: great read, Jade.  Music cues fit really well, too.

Quoting oneself ftl. However, the thread appears to have slowed a little; maybe it'll get read this time.

Well said. Well said.

As for mixing the blue pill and the red pill before? yeah, seen that. It's not pretty. He snorted it.


Also, Ike, I just realized, you have exactly one month and a day's seniority on me. This shall not stand, I must skin you and eat your brains for your powers.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 07 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[refuse81]

Arian Dynas wrote...

'Course not, you're here.


Ok. I apologize for the cheap shot.

Paragon interrupt. Have fun!

Modifié par refuse81, 07 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[killnoob]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

I admit I've just skimmed over the 60 new pages that have sprung up since I left for work, but the gist of it seems to be 'waah IT can't work because that means Shep only survived in one ending and we can't have right or wrong choices like that, someone might get their feelings hurt' or some such manure.

And apparently all the waah-ers have completely forgotten the existence and openness of ME2, aka, 'choices, Fred; choices everywhere.' You could choose to not do loyalty missions. You could choose to go straight up the main plot path and hop right through the Omega 4 relay with as little character advancement as possible. And with that choice, your Shepard, along with his/her entire crew, dies. You literally made the wrong choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, would you like to restart from previous save? If yes, try not to f* up quite so hard this time, hmm?

So, then: how was including such 'right' and 'wrong' choices valid in a previous entry in the series, yet somehow not-at-all acceptable in the final?

IT merely opens up the possibility of furthering the narrative using a plot device for which these writers, and indeed this studio, are already famous. What could possibly be your beef?

Unrelated: great read, Jade.  Music cues fit really well, too.

Quoting oneself ftl. However, the thread appears to have slowed a little; maybe it'll get read this time.

Well said. Well said.

As for mixing the blue pill and the red pill before? yeah, seen that. It's not pretty. He snorted it.


Also, Ike, I just realized, you have exactly one month and a day's seniority on me. This shall not stand, I must skin you and eat your brains for your powers.

You still have some plotholes in your script. IF you can fix it then I'll agree with you the ending can be fix with simple cinematics. I'll also go along with IDT for now.

And i really dont care about cheap shots or not if it's funny then i'll happily take it.

Still would really like to see that script revised.

Modifié par killnoob, 07 avril 2012 - 07:50 .

[Lyria]

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

I admit I've just skimmed over the 60 new pages that have sprung up since I left for work, but the gist of it seems to be 'waah IT can't work because that means Shep only survived in one ending and we can't have right or wrong choices like that, someone might get their feelings hurt' or some such manure.

And apparently all the waah-ers have completely forgotten the existence and openness of ME2, aka, 'choices, Fred; choices everywhere.' You could choose to not do loyalty missions. You could choose to go straight up the main plot path and hop right through the Omega 4 relay with as little character advancement as possible. And with that choice, your Shepard, along with his/her entire crew, dies. You literally made the wrong choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, would you like to restart from previous save? If yes, try not to f* up quite so hard this time, hmm?

So, then: how was including such 'right' and 'wrong' choices valid in a previous entry in the series, yet somehow not-at-all acceptable in the final?

IT merely opens up the possibility of furthering the narrative using a plot device for which these writers, and indeed this studio, are already famous. What could possibly be your beef?

Unrelated: great read, Jade.  Music cues fit really well, too.

Quoting oneself ftl. However, the thread appears to have slowed a little; maybe it'll get read this time.

Quoting oneself is amusing.  I usually quote myself and say something like, this great man said "[insert my quote here]" 
I agree with you and I'm sad I missed this post first time around.
People forgot that ME2 did have wrong choices and correct choices as did ME1.  The whole Udina/Anderson thing bugs me.  But at least they added a thing to Udina's codex entry saying why he is now a Council member and Anderson isn't.
ME2 had the whole Shepard can die ending.  Which was a wrong choice and now that TIM gets reaper tech regardless of Shepard's choice in ME2 the Collector base might as well be kept.

[Arian Dynas]

killnoob wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

Emperor_Ike wrote...

I admit I've just skimmed over the 60 new pages that have sprung up since I left for work, but the gist of it seems to be 'waah IT can't work because that means Shep only survived in one ending and we can't have right or wrong choices like that, someone might get their feelings hurt' or some such manure.

And apparently all the waah-ers have completely forgotten the existence and openness of ME2, aka, 'choices, Fred; choices everywhere.' You could choose to not do loyalty missions. You could choose to go straight up the main plot path and hop right through the Omega 4 relay with as little character advancement as possible. And with that choice, your Shepard, along with his/her entire crew, dies. You literally made the wrong choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, would you like to restart from previous save? If yes, try not to f* up quite so hard this time, hmm?

So, then: how was including such 'right' and 'wrong' choices valid in a previous entry in the series, yet somehow not-at-all acceptable in the final?

IT merely opens up the possibility of furthering the narrative using a plot device for which these writers, and indeed this studio, are already famous. What could possibly be your beef?

Unrelated: great read, Jade.  Music cues fit really well, too.

Quoting oneself ftl. However, the thread appears to have slowed a little; maybe it'll get read this time.

Well said. Well said.

As for mixing the blue pill and the red pill before? yeah, seen that. It's not pretty. He snorted it.


Also, Ike, I just realized, you have exactly one month and a day's seniority on me. This shall not stand, I must skin you and eat your brains for your powers.

You still have some plotholes in your script. IF you can fix it then I'll agree with you the ending can be fix with simple cinematics.

Ok then chuckles, please do, point these out to me. As I said, leaving the Crucible ambigious is intentional on that count, so if you don't care for abiguity, then don't watch The Matrix sequels.

[Ravel1992]

OMG. I wasnt here for a moment and now there is so many anti-IT people. 
Did they find any new fact to disapprove the theory? No.
Did they hear something new on PAX to disapprove the theory? Again no. Bioware told us what we already knew from Ray Muzyka.
Did Bioware deny the theory? No. They said to wait.

And at the end they said "We want the content to speak for itself, and we'll let it do so". And now content clearly speaking "Shepard is Indoctrinated".

Hold the line.
Ravel out.

Modifié par Ravel1992, 07 avril 2012 - 07:51 .