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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#32951
DirtyPhoenix

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LeRavelle wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Wasn't TIM hell bent on resurrecting Shepard in almost the exact form he/she was before getting spaced. That can be one reason why he could have chosen th use normal implants instead of Reaper implants. I am searching for it too, to see if its mentioned anywhere in the game. I guess my habit of taking screenshots continously might come in handy :D


In the books they use reaper tech on someone and it's way worse for that person than Shep so my guess is that they used the ideas of the reaper tech but not really the reaper tech itself. Else Shep would be a walking Husk by now,


So there should be no direct implication of destroyed Reapers on Shep since her implants were based on the ideas derived from the Reapers, not the exact Reaper implants right?

Also, didn't Garrus have alot of synthetic implants on him as well? How come he survived the wave then?

#32952
LeRavelle

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m_k wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Wasn't TIM hell bent on resurrecting Shepard in almost the exact form he/she was before getting spaced. That can be one reason why he could have chosen th use normal implants instead of Reaper implants. I am searching for it too, to see if its mentioned anywhere in the game. I guess my habit of taking screenshots continously might come in handy :D


In the books they use reaper tech on someone and it's way worse for that person than Shep so my guess is that they used the ideas of the reaper tech but not really the reaper tech itself. Else Shep would be a walking Husk by now,


Grayson? What happened exactly?


*MASS EFFECT BOOK SPOILERS SKIP AHEAD IF YOU DON'T READ IT YET*

The Illusive man manages to catch Grayson and implants him with serious reaper tech, transforming him in to a meat muppet for the reapers, his body becomes more that of a husk with lights and tubes like Saren and is unable to control his own body, at first he remains is consiousness but overtime the reapers get stronger and erase your mind and they use your body for whatever they like, a emotionless killing machine in the books forexample.


@pirate. Exactly.  The procedure is inhumane and cruel there's no way any of the ME2 serberus crew would have allowed that, it's pure torture.

At the end of ME3 you see TiM implanting real reaper tech in to his own body, hence the husk like looks and sudden biotic powers.

Modifié par LeRavelle, 07 avril 2012 - 10:30 .


#32953
LivingHitokiri

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kilgorek wrote...

LivingHitokiri wrote...

Avoiding the question directly was damage control , nothing else. They know if they directly deny indoctrination theory they are even more screwed than now,so they leave it " open" in order to win some time to reorganize their plans.

The way i saw their answer about goes like this.
" illustrates how committed the [Mass Effect] fanbase is," but said that while "fans will interpret it in their own way," they didn't want to comment either way for fear of being "prescriptive."


So either they will pull out and troll us saying that was our plan all along, or they will simply give more cutscenes after current ending.
I saw couple of twits by bioware talking about Relays can be rebuild and that nobody starves to death with normandy crew which points out more to the path of " this was just a ****ty writting than a genius one"


How the hell are they going to be rebuilt when nothing works? From what I understood of the ending, nearly all space technology is void (this is explains why the Normandy would be running, although not how Joker knew to run to begin with). Do they even know how to rebuild it? Even if they did, and they had the supplies and transport, it would take them a long ass time to rebuild the entire mass relay system.

So, yea. I see no hope for all of those aliens stranded on Earth and its orbit.

I think there is something that they could easily claim as they did with the Crucible . With all the galaxy combined they assume that some reaper tech is left off arround that somehow could make them understand on how mass relays can be rebuilds.
Honestly, i cannot see more logical explanation in this than more bull****  and space magic or a sudden " eureka" moment by some random never heard scientist.

#32954
captainbob8383

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Maybe old, but another thing I've never noticed before, in the breath scene we can clearly hear the wind. Which would imply the scene takes place outdoor.

Modifié par captainbob8383, 07 avril 2012 - 10:26 .


#32955
The_Sloth25

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pirate1802 wrote...

Also, didn't Garrus have alot of synthetic implants on him as well? How come he survived the wave then?


I've got a feeling why they drum into you how desperate the situation was for Shep through the videos at the Cerberus base is to emphasise that Shep must 99% synthetic to be moving around so you're more likely to believe (rightly or wrongly) space brat.  That's also probably the difference between Shep and Garrus - Garrus has some synthetics and implants but nothing like Shep.
Maybe them using Reaper tech is also important - get you thinking it was used in Shep.

Modifié par The_Sloth25, 07 avril 2012 - 10:30 .


#32956
naddaya

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LeRavelle wrote...

m_k wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Wasn't TIM hell bent on resurrecting Shepard in almost the exact form he/she was before getting spaced. That can be one reason why he could have chosen th use normal implants instead of Reaper implants. I am searching for it too, to see if its mentioned anywhere in the game. I guess my habit of taking screenshots continously might come in handy :D


In the books they use reaper tech on someone and it's way worse for that person than Shep so my guess is that they used the ideas of the reaper tech but not really the reaper tech itself. Else Shep would be a walking Husk by now,


Grayson? What happened exactly?


*MASS EFFECT BOOK SPOILERS SKIP AHEAD IF YOU DON'T READ IT YET*

The Illusive man manages to catch Grayson and implants him with serious reaper tech, transforming him in to a meat muppet for the reapers, his body becomes more that of a husk with lights and tubes like Saren and is unable to control his own body, at first he remains is consiousness but overtime the reapers get stronger and erase your mind and they use your body for whatever they like, a emotionless killing machine in the books forexample.


Thanks. Kind of like what Cerberus uses on his own soldiers now.
Anyway, this makes it unlikely for Shepard to have Reaper tech. Better off this way.

#32957
Sweawm

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m_k wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Wasn't TIM hell bent on resurrecting Shepard in almost the exact form he/she was before getting spaced. That can be one reason why he could have chosen th use normal implants instead of Reaper implants. I am searching for it too, to see if its mentioned anywhere in the game. I guess my habit of taking screenshots continously might come in handy :D


In the books they use reaper tech on someone and it's way worse for that person than Shep so my guess is that they used the ideas of the reaper tech but not really the reaper tech itself. Else Shep would be a walking Husk by now,


Grayson? What happened exactly?


Cerberus implanted him with Reaper technology as their first prototype. At first, Grayson was too strong, resisting the Reapers will. So Cerberus injected him with Red Sand, which sent him into a dream state; allowing the Reapers to finally take over. The result was that Harbinger took over and then went on a crazy killing spree from Omega to Grissom Academy.

#32958
LeRavelle

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Sweawm wrote...

m_k wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Wasn't TIM hell bent on resurrecting Shepard in almost the exact form he/she was before getting spaced. That can be one reason why he could have chosen th use normal implants instead of Reaper implants. I am searching for it too, to see if its mentioned anywhere in the game. I guess my habit of taking screenshots continously might come in handy :D


In the books they use reaper tech on someone and it's way worse for that person than Shep so my guess is that they used the ideas of the reaper tech but not really the reaper tech itself. Else Shep would be a walking Husk by now,


Grayson? What happened exactly?


Cerberus implanted him with Reaper technology as their first prototype. At first, Grayson was too strong, resisting the Reapers will. So Cerberus injected him with Red Sand, which sent him into a dream state; allowing the Reapers to finally take over. The result was that Harbinger took over and then went on a crazy killing spree from Omega to Grissom Academy.


They never said it was Harbinger did they? One time it was one reaper and other times more than one controlling and reading him.

#32959
DirtyPhoenix

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kilgorek wrote...

LivingHitokiri wrote...

Avoiding the question directly was damage control , nothing else. They know if they directly deny indoctrination theory they are even more screwed than now,so they leave it " open" in order to win some time to reorganize their plans.

The way i saw their answer about goes like this.
" illustrates how committed the [Mass Effect] fanbase is," but said that while "fans will interpret it in their own way," they didn't want to comment either way for fear of being "prescriptive."


So either they will pull out and troll us saying that was our plan all along, or they will simply give more cutscenes after current ending.
I saw couple of twits by bioware talking about Relays can be rebuild and that nobody starves to death with normandy crew which points out more to the path of " this was just a ****ty writting than a genius one"


How the hell are they going to be rebuilt when nothing works? From what I understood of the ending, nearly all space technology is void (this is explains why the Normandy would be running, although not how Joker knew to run to begin with). Do they even know how to rebuild it? Even if they did, and they had the supplies and transport, it would take them a long ass time to rebuild the entire mass relay system.

So, yea. I see no hope for all of those aliens stranded on Earth and its orbit.


From what I understood, the child said only Synthetics and the Mass relays would be wiped out, he didnt say anything about other technology. So FTL should still work.

#32960
Sweawm

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LeRavelle wrote...

@pirate. Exactly.  The procedure is inhumane and cruel there's no way any of the ME2 serberus crew would have allowed that, it's pure torture.

At the end of ME3 you see TiM implanting real reaper tech in to his own body, hence the husk like looks and sudden biotic powers.



Actually, the Mass Effect 2 Cerberus is the very same as the Mass Effect 3 Cerberus. The only thing thats changed is that the Illusive Man's true agenda has been revealed. The Illusive Man always saw control as means to survival.

Your surprised that Cerberus is inhumane? God... :blink:
Have you read the Ascension novel? That was just after Mass Effect 1, and Cerberus is the pure evil force that ruins lives and sees torture as something to enjoy between stomping on puppies.

#32961
waldstr18

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i want facts! someone make them talk. i would even accept the indoctrination theory at this point just to know whats going on.

#32962
Erethrian

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waldstr18 wrote...

i want facts! someone make them talk. i would even accept the indoctrination theory at this point just to know whats going on.


Yeah well, all we got is: "Wait until summer, because we're not denying nor confirming anything".

#32963
LeRavelle

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Sweawm wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

@pirate. Exactly.  The procedure is inhumane and cruel there's no way any of the ME2 serberus crew would have allowed that, it's pure torture.

At the end of ME3 you see TiM implanting real reaper tech in to his own body, hence the husk like looks and sudden biotic powers.



Actually, the Mass Effect 2 Cerberus is the very same as the Mass Effect 3 Cerberus. The only thing thats changed is that the Illusive Man's true agenda has been revealed. The Illusive Man always saw control as means to survival.

Your surprised that Cerberus is inhumane? God... :blink:
Have you read the Ascension novel? That was just after Mass Effect 1, and Cerberus is the pure evil force that ruins lives and sees torture as something to enjoy between stomping on puppies.


Who said I was suprised? :P  The Grayson Husk transformation was cruel and inhumane because of revenge on him, showing no emotions from TiM at all.  It's strange though, he was a decent fellow with the right sense of justice before he got indoctrinated in the first contact war.

And with Cerberus crew I meant Jacob and Miranda, not the Cerberus Super Troopers.

Modifié par LeRavelle, 07 avril 2012 - 10:43 .


#32964
Legion109

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Erethrian wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

i want facts! someone make them talk. i would even accept the indoctrination theory at this point just to know whats going on.


Yeah well, all we got is: "Wait until summer, because we're not denying nor confirming anything".


I say we eat them do they can never:alien::wizard: Again

#32965
SixG90

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ok, I'm back. what I've missed beside the great non-announcement of PAX?
HOLD THE LINE!

#32966
DirtyPhoenix

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I live in a different part of the world, so which month is summer exactly?

#32967
LotharArmoran

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June-July-August. Knowing game companies, it'll probably be 31 August. Yea tempted to replay ME1 to ME3 again while waiting for that DLC. Must. Resist. Not even going to bother with MP.

Modifié par LotharArmoran, 07 avril 2012 - 10:51 .


#32968
waldstr18

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what? isnt summer like juni, july, august and maybe september everywhere? isnt all that connected with the distance to the sun? how could that be different anywhere on planet earth.

i wouldnt even know how to google that. when exactly is summer in china? do eskimos get spring break? do they celebrate christmas in africa?

#32969
DirtyPhoenix

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Lols, in my place summer has already started :P

#32970
Arian Dynas

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

m_k wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Shepard would have to survive:
1. The initial explosion of the red "power conduit" caused by shooting it.
2. Being at ground zero of the Crucible energy being released.
3. The Citadel being destroyed (and more than likely the Crucible) with you still on it's back once the red Beam is sent out to the Relays.
4. Re-entry into Earth's atmostphere either within Citadel debris or free falling.
5. Performing 4. succesfully without personal kinetic barriers in addition to severly damaged armor and life threatening injuries.
6. ALL Synthetic life being destroy, including Shepard's cybernetics according to the Catalyst. "Even you are partly Synthetic"


All excellent points, the last one especially bugs me.


I suppose Shepard did "survive" atmospheric re-entry once before, but he/she was in some kind of coma/stasis or just litereally dead but well preserved. It took two years and billions of dollars worth of cutting edge tech to bring Shepard alive again. You can argue that with Shepard's cutting edge tech cybernetic implants he/she could survive all of that, but the Destroy option deactivates those and debunks that arguement.


He wasent even well preserved. Cant remember who but somebody in ME2, I think its Liara, describes it as Shepard having been scattered across a large area in pieces. Only because his brain was relatively intact due to beeing protected by his helmet (which he would not have for Citadel to Earth entry in ME3) and that beyond the brain Shepard is mostly cloned tissue and cybernetics.

So yeah his chances of surviving Orbital from Citadel is 0, litterally 0.


From the pictures we get shown, h e really was more in a sort of vaccum sealed, freezdried scenario, covered in friction re-entry burns and every bone in his body broken, I say that what happened basically was Shepard gets thrown into high orbit, hangs out there for a few days or even weeks, and then starts to go into a decaying orbit before smacking into the ground, in this case, the only things that saved him were the kinetic barriors and ablative armor in his suit and helmet. So he was a little more whole than that. Just, not much.

clennon8 wrote...

I'm about 90% sure the "Shep breathes" scene is on the Citadel, folks. So whatever version of IT you believe in has to account for that.

 

Yours does. We don't need to.

captainbob8383 wrote...

Maybe old, but another thing I've never noticed before, in the breath scene we can clearly hear the wind. Which would imply the scene takes place outdoor.


Which also implies something else important. It's a place that has air, there's no wind on the citadel in so far as I know *could be wrong, after all the Presidium has it;s own climate) but there ain't no wind in space. 

waldstr18 wrote...

what? isnt summer like juni, july, august and maybe september everywhere? isnt all that connected with the distance to the sun? how could that be different anywhere on planet earth. 

i wouldnt even know how to google that. when exactly is summer in china? do eskimos get spring break? do they celebrate christmas in africa?

 

Be patient pup, you're starting to act offensive. look up the words summer solstice.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 07 avril 2012 - 11:00 .


#32971
waldstr18

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internet people are very easily offended.

#32972
CheesieOnion

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Does someone has a link to the Q&A at PAX?

#32973
Legion109

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It's amazing how I can't seem to write the word so on my phone it always comes out as do

- I am Krogan hear me roar, you know Asari are just wh*res" <---- this infests my brain and won't leave

#32974
Vahilor

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waldstr18 wrote...

internet people are very easily offended.


But somhow you seem to offend nearly everyone wiht nearly every of you post... I don't know if you are not able to write in a non offence manner or you do it on intetion...do provoke people...

#32975
waldstr18

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i guess im just a difficult person.