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[GBGriffin]

So, again, if this is all in Shep's mind and has no consequence on reality or the fate of the galaxy...why is Weekes speaking in terms of how it affects reality and the galaxy?

Also, they won't make two endings junk, not when it's been pretty heavily theorized that they favor synthesis (you can unlock it without multiplayer and I believe it gas the second to highest EMS requirement behind the breath) as well as the fact they're defending the endings, all 3, as is.

[Kyzee]

GBGriffin wrote...

@Kyzee

He's making direct statements, not posing hypotheses using "maybe" this or that. Again, it's unofficial, so it's him speaking casually, but he's offering explanations and clarification, even using direct yes and no phrasing. That doesn't sound like he's theorizing.

Well, again, if he spoke of it in terms of "maybe," it'd be giving away what the true ending was . . . that is to say, dismissing everyone who believes in IT. That's something BioWare is trying to avoid, just as they are trying to avoid alienating those who believe the endings are real as they are.

[llbountyhunter]

I think some of the biggest support towards IT is the tweet from Jessica saying that a team+shep. Reunite IS possible. How can this be true if not for IT?

bioware also said that the reapers can win in one of the endings. That's more than enough evidence unless they want to employ some sort of space magic.

[RealStyli]

GBGriffin wrote...

@RealStyli

Weekes acknowledged the interview took place and criticized the negativity, not the content. He didn't say it was fabricated, exaggerated, or misinformation.

As for reading into it, I'd say I'm taking it at face value: clarification of choices that had consequences on the galaxy in reality. He is making yes and no statements, not maybe this or that, and talking about the effects of the ending on characters and the galaxy. None of that is exaggerated imo.

Except, if you read what Weekes actually said in acknowledgement, he said they were paraphrased:

http://social.biowar.../index/11154234

[AgentStark]

I think I can summarize all of your comments in this fashion:

The fans of the series are not impressed with what they saw and think it could be done better. They try to make a collection of theories as to why an ending such as this was given, and thus try to make the pain go away. Truth be told, this is not the reality of the situation.

I am seeing Bioware writers mad because of the stunt EA pulled in controlling creativity. The same thing happened with Dice in Battlefield, which used to be revered for its interesting single player campaign but is now being flooded with Call of Duty gamers making it change to their perspective. It's pretty clear by now that EA is turning into Activision and trying to squeeze as much money out of the die hard fans as possible. This cannot happen.

How is this related to IT? I believe that Bioware intended for the IT to be true. I believe that they are trying to trick EA into thinking that they get the ending they want. This is why the additional DLC after the extended cut is called The Truth because it will show what really happened. There needs to be some light shed on this. Fight the good fight, people. Its looking like a conspiracy.

[Chief Commander]

GBGriffin wrote...

So, again, if this is all in Shep's mind and has no consequence on reality or the fate of the galaxy...why is Weekes speaking in terms of how it affects reality and the galaxy?

Also, they won't make two endings junk, not when it's been pretty heavily theorized that they favor synthesis (you can unlock it without multiplayer and I believe it gas the second to highest EMS requirement behind the breath) as well as the fact they're defending the endings, all 3, as is.

And I say again: The world and time does not stop while Shepard is fighting the indoctrination. Battle continues. And if you choose wrong you never wake up. That way the reapers would win.

If you have low EMS your forces get destroyed. Also regarding the EMS. How do you explain the following (without IT):

-The first thing the child says is "Wake up" when your EMS is at the highest. The line is missing when you have low EMS
-Child dialogue changes from something like "you need to do this" to "you have a choice" when you have highest EMS
-Shepard ONLY breathes in the destroy ending. (Yes he gets pulverized in the other too, but in my eyes destroy is the best according to his survival). Again only possible with highest EMS.

[llbountyhunter]

GBGriffin wrote...

So, again, if this is all in Shep's mind and has no consequence on reality or the fate of the galaxy...why is Weekes speaking in terms of how it affects reality and the galaxy?

Also, they won't make two endings junk, not when it's been pretty heavily theorized that they favor synthesis (you can unlock it without multiplayer and I believe it gas the second to highest EMS requirement behind the breath) as well as the fact they're defending the endings, all 3, as is.

Point 1: you don't know it doesn't affect reality your not dreaming- its a mental battle between you and harbinger.

Point 2: maybe synthesis is not a completely bad ending. Maybe with enough ems or paragon you can pull through,

As for red bioware did say the reapers can win in one ending.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 08 avril 2012 - 03:39 .

[GBGriffin]

@Kyzee

If you think Weekes was intentionally deceiving you, I don't know how to convince you otherwise. As far as I know, his credibility is sound and you are assuming his definitive statements are lies, so...I'm not really sure how to continue along this line of discussion if you can dismiss everything as "he isn't being truthful ".

@bountyhunter

Merizan is a pr rep, not a dev, who has a rather notorious history for either saying things to please people or just being contradictory, even wrong. To believe her over Weekes, an actual writer, is a mistake imo.

[Falloutwarfare]

@vahilor as the endings stand right now if IT isnt right then they have already used space magic so whats to stop them doing it again?

[llbountyhunter]

GBGriffin wrote...

@Kyzee

If you think Weekes was intentionally deceiving you, I don't know how to convince you otherwise. As far as I know, his credibility is sound and you are assuming his definitive statements are lies, so...I'm not really sure how to continue along this line of discussion if you can dismiss everything as "he isn't being truthful ".

@bountyhunter

Merizan is a pr rep, not a dev, who has a rather notorious history for either saying things to please people or just being contradictory, even wrong. To believe her over Weekes, an actual writer, is a mistake imo.

I'm not believing anyone over the other, they way I was telling you means they're BOTH right.

[GBGriffin]

@ Chief

Why do they have to mean anything other than just face value? What, other than IT, dictates that they must mean something special or hidden?

This is getting to be a futile, though. Again, we've reached a crucial truth about IT: you can dismiss anything that doesn't support it in favor of whatever does. Weekes makes statements clarifying the endings at face value, but he must be lying or not telling the truth, or he is not credible or reliable. Nothing supports those accusations, given his history, but because what he says does not support the IT, if is safe to discredit it, ignore it, or explain it away.

Time for a break, I guess. I've made a bit of a joke about appearing when summoned, but even then, I can tell this is a discussion that isn't worth having.

[Vahilor]

Falloutwarfare wrote...

@vahilor as the endings stand right now if IT isnt right then they have already used space magic so whats to stop them doing it again?

I hate Space Magic in the ME Universe... when I want SPace Magic I watch or play Star Wars...

I really hope they will use IT in some way.. I really do...

[Geran85]

HellishFiend wrote...

Byakuren2009 wrote...

Mr. Mistake wrote...

Geran85 wrote...

IT is the ending for me. Unless Bioware does something spectacular, I'll pretty much ignore any additional content to the ending and assume that it was true in 'my' world.

That said, if IT does turn out to be true, wouldn't it be cool (and scary and disheartening) if having made a wrong choice that lead to complete indoctrination (any choice that is not Destroy) lead to your very own Shepard being a Harbinger-controlled villain in any additional content that is released? I'd love it, personally.

Plus one.

+1 too

I do think this is actually what will happen. I'm calling it now. 

I'm bookmarking this page so that we can remember this and hopefully mutually congratulate each other in a few months! 

[Macgummi]

Maybe someone with a twitter account could ask Weekes if IT was intended or not. He seems like a very honest person to me.

[Kyzee]

Stupid incorrect posting! <_<

Modifié par Kyzee, 08 avril 2012 - 04:05 .

[Kyzee]

GBGriffin wrote...

@Kyzee

If you think Weekes was intentionally deceiving you, I don't know how to convince you otherwise. As far as I know, his credibility is sound and you are assuming his definitive statements are lies, so...I'm not really sure how to continue along this line of discussion if you can dismiss everything as "he isn't being truthful ".

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm making no assumptions about Weekes' statements or motivations whatsoever. You asked how his remarks could work with IT; I gave use a possible explanation. That's all. I'm the spawn of lawyers; I love debate. I guess my attempts to further the discussion caused confusion as to what I meant. My apologies.

What I do stand by, however, is my statement that I'd find it very odd for Weekes to go off message and make declartive remarks about what the end of ME3 was, when the rest of BioWare is trying to avoid that so as not to alienate anyone. Does that mean that Weekes wasn't making definitive statements? Of course not (people have gone rogue before). And I'd be interested in seeing what BioWare has in mind if what he's saying is true.

Please don't misunderstand me. I support IT, but I'm not a fanatic. I just want an ending that makes sense.

Friends? 

Modifié par Kyzee, 08 avril 2012 - 04:05 .

[Chief Commander]

GBGriffin wrote...

@ Chief

Why do they have to mean anything other than just face value? What, other than IT, dictates that they must mean something special or hidden?

This is getting to be a futile, though. Again, we've reached a crucial truth about IT: you can dismiss anything that doesn't support it in favor of whatever does. Weekes makes statements clarifying the endings at face value, but he must be lying or not telling the truth, or he is not credible or reliable. Nothing supports those accusations, given his history, but because what he says does not support the IT, if is safe to discredit it, ignore it, or explain it away.

Time for a break, I guess. I've made a bit of a joke about appearing when summoned, but even then, I can tell this is a discussion that isn't worth having.

I must say you would make the perfect politician! Twisting what people actually said in your favour and not responding to the oppositions arguments.

Also for the record: I am not saying that the IT is the one and only true ending or whatever. None of us know, but the IT is likely giving the clues in the game. Developer statements seem to say the opposite, but that also would be a strategy of indoctrination. So if Bioware chose to indoctrinate us all and give us the real ending in the summer, all who did not believe the IT would have fallen to indoctrination, because BW apparently discredited it.

Funny. Why haven´t BW completely discredited the IT? Some say because it´s true and planned by BW. Some say they want to leave that interpretation in the fans head (although "explaining" the ending would discredit it) and some say it would create an unimgainable ****storm, because BW were lying all the time about the IT being a possiblity (Twitter feeds of Merizani and Mass Effect).

[Falloutwarfare]

@vahilor you just gave me the idea that the empire will arrive to destroy the reapers..... But thats not silly enough to beat the current ending. I must think on this as i hold the line

[llbountyhunter]

GBGriffin wrote...

@ Chief

Why do they have to mean anything other than just face value? What, other than IT, dictates that they must mean something special or hidden?

This is getting to be a futile, though. Again, we've reached a crucial truth about IT: you can dismiss anything that doesn't support it in favor of whatever does. Weekes makes statements clarifying the endings at face value, but he must be lying or not telling the truth, or he is not credible or reliable. Nothing supports those accusations, given his history, but because what he says does not support the IT, if is safe to discredit it, ignore it, or explain it away.

Time for a break, I guess. I've made a bit of a joke about appearing when summoned, but even then, I can tell this is a discussion that isn't worth having.

You forgot the other crucial truth on IT: anyone who doesn't like it simply dismisses all the evidence supporting it or calls it false

[McWhitey3]

@GBGriffin

I think the overall point is being overlooked. They are not going to come out say of IT is real or not. They have said from the beginning that the ending as it stands was to promote speculation. All Weekes was doing was answering questions and some clarification based on what was seen. If it was grounded on reality then that's the point. Again when they wrote this ending they had to have "reality" in mind. You can't have speculation if everything we saw at the end wasn't based on reality or everything was based on a dream.

The best evidence for IT is the breathing scene. Reason being is that we were told in game that destroy would kill us in the process also. Then we are seen breathing and not on the citadel. At that point it should have come clear it was a lie. Very simple I know but that was out in there for a reason and put there if war assets high...

My 2 cents: I think the ending leak threw a wrench in the plan. They couldnt delay the game so this is what they came up with. This extended cut DLC I think will point more towards IT and will release at the end of May that way at E3 they can announce "the truth" or whatever they at going to call it now.

[KILLER SQUIDZ]

AgentStark wrote...

I think I can summarize all of your comments in this fashion:

The fans of the series are not impressed with what they saw and think it could be done better. They try to make a collection of theories as to why an ending such as this was given, and thus try to make the pain go away. Truth be told, this is not the reality of the situation.

I am seeing Bioware writers mad because of the stunt EA pulled in controlling creativity. The same thing happened with Dice in Battlefield, which used to be revered for its interesting single player campaign but is now being flooded with Call of Duty gamers making it change to their perspective. It's pretty clear by now that EA is turning into Activision and trying to squeeze as much money out of the die hard fans as possible. This cannot happen.

How is this related to IT? I believe that Bioware intended for the IT to be true. I believe that they are trying to trick EA into thinking that they get the ending they want. This is why the additional DLC after the extended cut is called The Truth because it will show what really happened. There needs to be some light shed on this. Fight the good fight, people. Its looking like a conspiracy.

They specifically denied DLC called "The Truth". As of right now it's still just the Extended Cut DLC. 

[Rifneno]

GBGriffin wrote...

@ Chief

Why do they have to mean anything other than just face value? What, other than IT, dictates that they must mean something special or hidden?

This is getting to be a futile, though. Again, we've reached a crucial truth about IT: you can dismiss anything that doesn't support it in favor of whatever does. Weekes makes statements clarifying the endings at face value, but he must be lying or not telling the truth, or he is not credible or reliable. Nothing supports those accusations, given his history, but because what he says does not support the IT, if is safe to discredit it, ignore it, or explain it away.

Time for a break, I guess. I've made a bit of a joke about appearing when summoned, but even then, I can tell this is a discussion that isn't worth having.

Just as you're dismissing everything that does point to IT over the syntax of a paraphrased version of something one writer said to one fan in private.

[Kyzee]

McWhitey3 wrote...

@GBGriffin

I think the overall point is being overlooked. They are not going to come out say of IT is real or not. They have said from the beginning that the ending as it stands was to promote speculation. All Weekes was doing was answering questions and some clarification based on what was seen. If it was grounded on reality then that's the point. Again when they wrote this ending they had to have "reality" in mind. You can't have speculation if everything we saw at the end wasn't based on reality or everything was based on a dream.

DING DING DING! What I meant exactly.

You know, the fact of the matter is that both IT supporters and anti-IT supporters are, to a degree, trying to prove negatives to each other. IT supporters are trying to show that the endings as is aren't real, and anti-IT supporters are trying to show that IT isn't true. Not enviable positions to be in for either party.

[GBGriffin]

@ kyzee

Lol, yes, friends. My apologies for misunderstanding you.

In closing, for now, I'd just like to apologize for beginning to lose my cool and just state why it's fairly easy to get irritated over this from my perspective : arguing against this theory is, at its core, arguing against faith. I am not a great debater, and I don't know how to argue against faith, or if it's even possible.

People have faith that the IT is true, that it was planned or that they'll just run with it. Faith of any kind is deeply personal and I believe that only the person who holds it can decide to change it based on whatever they feel is appropriate.

If this faith in BioWare lets you appreciate the series again, that's great. I'd just caution you to brace yourself for the possibility of disappointment. Please, don't adopt the "IT or nothing else" mentality.