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[IronSabbath88]

I dunno if anyone noticed this but on Twitter, Reid Buckmeister (I hope that's his actual name.. lol) a QA Analyst at BioWare said that he's going to be back on ME soon for the DLC goodness. I'm liking the sounds of this.

Don't QA guys usually do gameplay stuff? I know they probably look for other problems too, but isn't it mostly gameplay nuances?

[schneeland]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I dunno if anyone noticed this but on Twitter, Reid Buckmeister (I hope that's his actual name.. lol) a QA Analyst at BioWare said that he's going to be back on ME soon for the DLC goodness. I'm liking the sounds of this.

Don't QA guys usually do gameplay stuff? I know they probably look for other problems too, but isn't it mostly gameplay nuances?

Agreed. My understanding is that they typically try to spot problems with gameplay and/or other conditions in the engine where bugs appear.

[Arian Dynas]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

I don't think it's a matter of not letting mass effect go. It.s the fact that it will continue regardless. That ending thing shows how they can keep mass effect as a series going while closing shep's story.

Bioware also wants speculations with the ending even as they close it. That post is just a realistic.way to do that

Where is the sci-fi theme in the hospital. The massive explanations we've grown to love so far?
Where is the character focus? I community with others, they return the dialogue. 1 n1 dialogue isn't character focus.
reapers in space stays in theme. Be ever vigilant commander shepard and allies.

I'm going to be honest, I wont bother with you, you've decided you don't like my explanation and I'll just live with that.

[Spartas Husky]

Arian Dynas wrote...


I'm going to be honest, I wont bother with you, you've decided you don't like my explanation and I'll just live with that.

lol my god how hypocritical can you be.

I just mentioned I love your Introduction, rising, climax and falling, but the resolution is left with more questions than answers. Which is exactly what Bioware has done.

you cant possibly be serius about what you've just said. And possibly have made an ending exactly because you liked the Introduction, rising, climax and falling of bioware. But disagreed with their ending based on concious  feeling that they left more questions than answers. How do you reconcile that... that just boggles the mind.

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 10 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[NoSpin]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I dunno if anyone noticed this but on Twitter, Reid Buckmeister (I hope that's his actual name.. lol) a QA Analyst at BioWare said that he's going to be back on ME soon for the DLC goodness. I'm liking the sounds of this.

Don't QA guys usually do gameplay stuff? I know they probably look for other problems too, but isn't it mostly gameplay nuances?

There are multiple DLC's being worked on, Take Back Omega comes to mind.

You may be on to something, but don't get your hopes up

[Rifneno]

LeRavelle wrote...

Why has this thread become fanfic.net?

We had three choices.  Become fanfic.net, merge every site on the Internet with fanfic.net, or destroy all electronics.

[The man of myth]

Drammattex wrote...

My 2.5 cents.

Indoctrination is so evident to me that it feels silly even calling it a theory.
From a writing standpoint, it's smart: the player thinks it can never happen, just as Saren, Benezia, or the Illusive Man did, but the voice of temptation is subtle, and in the end Shepard (often) unwittingly chooses indoctrination. It shows that even Shepard can be swayed unless he's single-minded in his purpose. We don't find out what happens at the end of the game after Shepard is/is not indoctrinated--you're left to speculate.

That said, I had to read it on the internet (here) to get it. Had I not done that, I would have shrugged and gone on to watch Game of Thrones that afternoon, leaving Mass Effect behind, confused and somewhat apathetic. There's spoon feeding, and then there's leaving enough bread crumbs for the audience to follow your trail. For me, the bread crumbs were spaced too far apart and I was lost in the woods (with the creepy ghost kid). I did pay attention. Even at the time I did wonder if Shepard was being indoctrinated, but if that were true, I didn't connect it to what was happening in the game. And perhaps most importantly, Shepard--my link to the game--didn't seem to suspect anything.

The game repeatedly hints that Shepard will have to sacrifice himself for the good of all. So, if Shepard dies: fine, the game has led up to that. If Shepard is indoctrinated: fine, the previous 2 games have shown us how even the most well meaning people have been indoctrinated so this would also be natural. If Shepard gets to live at great cost to his soul/death of his companions/destruction of the universe: fine, let him/her make that choice.

The writing on the games is absolutely top notch, imo, and I feel that I (now) understand exactly where they were going with the ending, why they did it the way they did. I think it was a brave artistic choice and a strong artistic choice. However, it doesn't matter how great that choice is _if most of the audience doesn't get it, or doesn't follow_. It's admirable to push the envelope and aim for a transcendent experience, but if the majority of your audience doesn't come along, are they a mass of unwashed, uneducated, self-entitled heathens... or was THE DELIVERY of that awesome high concept idea just a little more opaque than you had imagined?

Finally, as many have said, the game has been mostly about the characters and the way Shepard's choices affect the fate of the universe, and that's what the audience has invested in. So even though the clever (I might add "symmetrical" and "poetic") ending is truly about whether or not Shepard is indoctrinated, it's hard to care much about that since that's not what we've been striving for.

Thus, while I applaud the vision, I feel that the endgame may have been stronger had it been more evident, the last moments more complex in gameplay and choice, and shown the payoff for the choices made in the game. The indoctrination ending is, imo, a great choice so long as the audience later understands what happened and thus can appreciate what happened. And from the rage on the internet, there are many who don't--and in fact are angry or dismissive enough that they no longer care, or will no longer listen.

Also, a game isn't quite like a movie or a book or a TV show, in that you can't easily go back and examine the preceding evidence (especially us PS3 players forever locked out of ME1). The ME series has exceeded the boundaries of what has been done before, but (I think) we should remain vigilant in regard to the limitations of the form and the audience's ability to interpret/interact with it. And I think that Bioware is doing that by releasing ending content DLC--not, I hope, as an appeasement to the fans, but because they realize that the message was somewhat lost in translation.

Again, I expected indoctrination, and when it happened I didn't recognize it--which is the whole point really--but there were enough obfuscating details (mass relays, planet, stargazer, datapad, different interpretation of the dreams/child, etc) that even _AFTER_ the fact, I didn't get it, and was not emotionally or intellectually affected by the conclusion... until spending a lot of time on the internet: "Ah, that's how they worked the indoctrination, I see."

Great art should affect you emotionally, it should make you think. I feel the game's endings would reach more of its audience if it left a few more breadcrumbs to follow.

And seeing the effects of your choices wouldn't hurt either, since that's been our investment in the game.

Very well said and spot on. This was precisely my experience and my take on IT.

[ChefTastyTreats]

Went and watched 3 different videos of both control and synthesis on youtube
Yea i saw the eyes in all the videos
the eyes should be the 1 fact that gives this theory away....This theory is real and true.
I belieive, so glad I played my renegade first and just went in and said I came here to destroy the reapers so sorry starchild.
If this is true I have to say bravo Bioware. Congrats on becoming king of RPG's. If it's not true then WTF?

I think the ending still was on the bad side considering we spend three games making choices and becoming emotionaly attached that we get no closure on this. Also what was the point of building this massive army if we don't get to see the rammifications? Oh wait, thats right its to see  shepard take that one breath at the end. Yea that was totally worth it.

Modifié par ChefTastyTreats, 10 avril 2012 - 06:55 .

[llbountyhunter]

I have said this before, but how does this sound for the endings if the don't have any gameplay. (incorporating IT, and using it as a mental battle with harbinger)

destroy: it could end like me1 (after you kill sovereign) the reapers just kinda lose power allowing a easy win for the fleet.

control: like siding with the geth and the reapers destroy the fleet.

control: kinda like having enough paragon to choose both but not a real victory or defeat.

so what do you think?

[Tirian Thorn]

Rifneno wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

Why has this thread become fanfic.net?

We had three choices.  Become fanfic.net, merge every site on the Internet with fanfic.net, or destroy all electronics.

You sir, are F*&^%$# AWESOME!!! 

[Vahilor]

But what I really ask myself.. I think BW/EA are interessted in selling more Mass effect stuff... regardles of the setting.. whatever.. but if they give people such a bad ending.. broken promises.. makeing fun of fans... and even more stuff to ****** people of.. who will buy Mass Effect stuff anymore ?

If they don't make a really good job with the ending DLC.. I will think multiple times.. if I will ever buy a Mass Effect title again.. or Dragon Age or whatever they make...

Modifié par Vahilor, 10 avril 2012 - 06:53 .

[Spartas Husky]

The man of myth wrote...

Drammattex wrote...


Snip


And seeing the effects of your choices wouldn't hurt either, since that's been our investment in the game.

Very well said and spot on. This was precisely my experience and my take on IT.

nice...However gven the amount of interactivity Bioware has opened to players in the series. A shepard alive ending is a must. No other title have offered the player to really choose life or death as much as Mass effect has.

The collector base assault is probably the pinnacle of such interpretation. Do everything beyond right and you can make the impossible happen. "EDI: Shepard X crew member team arrived... no casualties"

[Unschuld]

Was anyone else here at PAX? I keep hearing that IT was essentially "destroyed" there, but that's not what I gathered. I was sitting in the back row so it was a bit hard to hear the panelists through the laughing/cheering at points, but from what I gathered they neither confirmed or denied it and their refusal to confirm/deny so that the upcoming DLC could "explain for itself" sounded more positive than anything else.

So... basically what solid evidence is there that this interpretation has been deep-sixed?

Modifié par Unschuld, 10 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

none. it's all interpretation

[Ghurshog]

Unschuld wrote...

Was anyone else here at PAX? I keep hearing that IT was essentially "destroyed" there, but that's not what I gathered. I was sitting in the back row so it was a bit hard to hear the panelists through the laughing/cheering at points, but from what I gathered they neither confirmed or denied it and their refusal to confirm/deny so that the upcoming DLC could "explain for itself" sounded more positive than anything else.

So... basically what solid evidence is there that this interpretation has been deep-sixed?

Youtube the ME pax event and you can find what was said during the panel and during the Q&A

[schneeland]

Vahilor wrote...

But what I really ask myself.. I think BW/EA are interessted in selling more Mass effect stuff... regardles of the setting.. whatever.. but if they give people such a bad ending.. broken promises.. makeing fun of fans... and even more stuff to ****** people of.. who will buy Mass Effect stuff anymore ?

If they don't make a really good job with the ending DLC.. I will think multiple times.. if I will ever buy a Mass Effect title again.. or Dragon Age or whatever they make...

That's a largely confusing point for me, too. While I could have imagined that they go for the current route and then release the "true" ending right at PAX, they obviously didn't and decided to remain vague instead. So while they could have made their way up into the golden halls of gaming with a better timing, now, it seems, they can only redeem themselves to a point where people will stop to actively advise others not to buy ME3 (or any other Bioware stuff).

[balance5050]

Unschuld wrote...

Was anyone else here at PAX? I keep hearing that IT was essentially "destroyed" there, but that's not what I gathered. I was sitting in the back row so it was a bit hard to hear the panelists through the laughing/cheering at points, but from what I gathered they neither confirmed or denied it and their refusal to confirm/deny so that the upcoming DLC could "explain for itself" sounded more positive than anything else.

So... basically what solid evidence is there that this interpretation has been deep-sixed?

"Solid" evidence? None.

[Unschuld]

Ghurshog wrote...

Youtube the ME pax event and you can find what was said during the panel and during the Q&A

Well, I guess watch it again and see if it changes any of my interpretations.... The only time I remember hearing it was near the beginning of the discussion in the Manticore, was wondering if there was ADDITIONAL stuff, like something that maybe the devs said in rm 105 later on in the evening (which I was not present at).

[Vahilor]

schneeland wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

But what I really ask myself.. I think BW/EA are interessted in selling more Mass effect stuff... regardles of the setting.. whatever.. but if they give people such a bad ending.. broken promises.. makeing fun of fans... and even more stuff to ****** people of.. who will buy Mass Effect stuff anymore ?

If they don't make a really good job with the ending DLC.. I will think multiple times.. if I will ever buy a Mass Effect title again.. or Dragon Age or whatever they make...

That's a largely confusing point for me, too. While I could have imagined that they go for the current route and then release the "true" ending right at PAX, they obviously didn't and decided to remain vague instead. So while they could have made their way up into the golden halls of gaming with a better timing, now, it seems, they can only redeem themselves to a point where people will stop to actively advise others not to buy ME3 (or any other Bioware stuff).

To be vague is not the worst thin.. if they had said "We work o the endings and probably will change some stuff." all would have be fine... what makes me very angry is, that they allways use the "artistic integrigy" as a kind of excuse for the bad ending and somhow keeping it (so it sounds to me in their  arguments) or the making fun of the IDT.. like in some of the twitter posts.

Not standing up for somthing they did wrong makes me really dissappointed.. if I do somthing wrong at work, I have to stand up for it as well..

[blueboxblues]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

none. it's all interpretation

This. Considering since IDT first came about, the theory has been "destroyed" on at least four different occasions, yet we're still all here...

[Unschuld]

blueboxblues wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

none. it's all interpretation

This. Considering since IDT first came about, the theory has been "destroyed" on at least four different occasions, yet we're still all here...

That's basically my take. I don't see any solid evidence that has "destroyed" it thus far, and although I still don't see anything solidly proven, there seems to still be some considerable evidence that IT is still perfectly plausible.

[RADIUMEYEZ]

Unschuld wrote...

blueboxblues wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

none. it's all interpretation

This. Considering since IDT first came about, the theory has been "destroyed" on at least four different occasions, yet we're still all here...

That's basically my take. I don't see any solid evidence that has "destroyed" it thus far, and although I still don't see anything solidly proven, there seems to still be some considerable evidence that IT is still perfectly plausible.

+1

[schneeland]

Vahilor wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

But what I really ask myself.. I think BW/EA are interessted in selling more Mass effect stuff... regardles of the setting.. whatever.. but if they give people such a bad ending.. broken promises.. makeing fun of fans... and even more stuff to ****** people of.. who will buy Mass Effect stuff anymore ?

If they don't make a really good job with the ending DLC.. I will think multiple times.. if I will ever buy a Mass Effect title again.. or Dragon Age or whatever they make...

That's a largely confusing point for me, too. While I could have imagined that they go for the current route and then release the "true" ending right at PAX, they obviously didn't and decided to remain vague instead. So while they could have made their way up into the golden halls of gaming with a better timing, now, it seems, they can only redeem themselves to a point where people will stop to actively advise others not to buy ME3 (or any other Bioware stuff).

To be vague is not the worst thin.. if they had said "We work o the endings and probably will change some stuff." all would have be fine... what makes me very angry is, that they allways use the "artistic integrigy" as a kind of excuse for the bad ending and somhow keeping it (so it sounds to me in their  arguments) or the making fun of the IDT.. like in some of the twitter posts.

Not standing up for somthing they did wrong makes me really dissappointed.. if I do somthing wrong at work, I have to stand up for it as well..

Ok, if you put it that way, I'll agree. Depending on their original intention (i.e. IT planned right from the start or not), I imagined they would either say something like:
"OK, we noticed that we didn't deliver the experience we liked to convey, we are now working on DLC" or
"OK, many people don't feel good about the ending, but we are working on DLC and it will totally change your perspective to what you saw"

Just like you said: if you screw something up, be honest about it and fix it (if you can).

Modifié par schneeland, 10 avril 2012 - 07:26 .

[Outcast107]

Rifneno wrote...

LeRavelle wrote...

Why has this thread become fanfic.net?

We had three choices.  Become fanfic.net, merge every site on the Internet with fanfic.net, or destroy all electronics.

*Head towards the computer that hook up to the internet and starts to shoot it with a random gun. Putting holes in it as it then explodes and destroy the house. Sending a shockwave to all computers and destroying them*

I think that would fit the destory all electronics. Or ..something...You could have been lieing to me about destroying all computers!

[Tirian Thorn]

Vahilor wrote...

schneeland wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

But what I really ask myself.. I think BW/EA are interessted in selling more Mass effect stuff... regardles of the setting.. whatever.. but if they give people such a bad ending.. broken promises.. makeing fun of fans... and even more stuff to ****** people of.. who will buy Mass Effect stuff anymore ?

If they don't make a really good job with the ending DLC.. I will think multiple times.. if I will ever buy a Mass Effect title again.. or Dragon Age or whatever they make...

That's a largely confusing point for me, too. While I could have imagined that they go for the current route and then release the "true" ending right at PAX, they obviously didn't and decided to remain vague instead. So while they could have made their way up into the golden halls of gaming with a better timing, now, it seems, they can only redeem themselves to a point where people will stop to actively advise others not to buy ME3 (or any other Bioware stuff).

To be vague is not the worst thin.. if they had said "We work o the endings and probably will change some stuff." all would have be fine... what makes me very angry is, that they allways use the "artistic integrigy" as a kind of excuse for the bad ending and somhow keeping it (so it sounds to me in their  arguments) or the making fun of the IDT.. like in some of the twitter posts.

Not standing up for somthing they did wrong makes me really dissappointed.. if I do somthing wrong at work, I have to stand up for it as well..

I agree - at my job if I make a mistake I own up to it, fix it or never let it happen again.  

But that's because I've been told what is acceptable vs. unacceptable and also because I have high personal standards for my work.  Which is also measured against the industry and gonvernmental guidelines. 

Who at Bioware has said the ending is unacceptable?  No one that I know. 

And if they were willing to put this crappy ending out there in the first place - it just shows how lousy a QC they have.