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[llbountyhunter]

TheConstantOne wrote...

 I've had a new idea on the ending and some evidence to sugest that synthesis is NOT space magic!  I figured I'd run these thoughts by everyone and keep meaningful discussion alive and well.
I'm coming to the belief that only the Reaper-child scene at the end was the hallucination.  You can explain the previous scenes easily enough without delving into indoctrination.  At the moment when Shepard passes out by the control panel, I believe the Reapers become partially affected by the Crucible.  Given what it can do to the Reapers, I'm thinking that even while joined with the Citadel in its "inert" state, the Crucible acts as a sort of reverse indoctrination device, i.e. the Reapers are given suggestions about alternatives to approaching the organic-synthetic problem: "imagine new possibilities" as the kid phrases it.  The Reaper-child, as the embodiment of Harbinger's mind, wakes Shepard up and puts him/her in the scenario that I think most of us feel is an illusion.  Harbinger, under the Crucible's Reaper-controlling influence, isn't trying to control Shep (in fact, Shepard may be on the verge of death right now, more on that in a moment) and so presents our favorite commander with a variety of choices reflecting the capability of just what the device can do depending on how well it was built (represented by war readiness.) Obviously, the Reapers still value preserving themselves and so would be very negative of destroy and much more amicable towards the other two options.  In the end though, Shepard's choice in the illusion guides him/her towards using the control panel to trigger the desired outcome.
On this note, I give the endings reimagined and ****proof that synthesis is not star magic!****

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well.  Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes.  The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives.  Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here.  The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade.  The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics.  A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible.  This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.  

Shepard, being near death, could then pass away after this hallucination (or pull through, depending on war readiness and Shep's resolve: Shep's will to live would be lower with endings (2) and (3) as s/he believes that a physical death is coming.)

Sorry for the text mountain but I'm hoping for some kind of debate from this 

indocternation, or reverse-indocternation, wont re-write your dna or make you partly syntheitc

[TheConstantOne]

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

 I've had a new idea on the ending and some evidence to sugest that synthesis is NOT space magic!  I figured I'd run these thoughts by everyone and keep meaningful discussion alive and well.
I'm coming to the belief that only the Reaper-child scene at the end was the hallucination.  You can explain the previous scenes easily enough without delving into indoctrination.  At the moment when Shepard passes out by the control panel, I believe the Reapers become partially affected by the Crucible.  Given what it can do to the Reapers, I'm thinking that even while joined with the Citadel in its "inert" state, the Crucible acts as a sort of reverse indoctrination device, i.e. the Reapers are given suggestions about alternatives to approaching the organic-synthetic problem: "imagine new possibilities" as the kid phrases it.  The Reaper-child, as the embodiment of Harbinger's mind, wakes Shepard up and puts him/her in the scenario that I think most of us feel is an illusion.  Harbinger, under the Crucible's Reaper-controlling influence, isn't trying to control Shep (in fact, Shepard may be on the verge of death right now, more on that in a moment) and so presents our favorite commander with a variety of choices reflecting the capability of just what the device can do depending on how well it was built (represented by war readiness.) Obviously, the Reapers still value preserving themselves and so would be very negative of destroy and much more amicable towards the other two options.  In the end though, Shepard's choice in the illusion guides him/her towards using the control panel to trigger the desired outcome.
On this note, I give the endings reimagined and ****proof that synthesis is not star magic!****

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well.  Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes.  The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives.  Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here.  The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade.  The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics.  A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible.  This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.  

Shepard, being near death, could then pass away after this hallucination (or pull through, depending on war readiness and Shep's resolve: Shep's will to live would be lower with endings (2) and (3) as s/he believes that a physical death is coming.)

Sorry for the text mountain but I'm hoping for some kind of debate from this 

indocternation, or reverse-indocternation, wont re-write your dna or make you partly syntheitc

You're right, it won't.  The reverse-indoc is a way to communicate and does NOT facilitate synthesis.  You must not have read far enough into what I wrote.  The Crucible produces nanites to interact with DNA in the synthesis ending.  This is a highly advanced version of what the omni-tool does to produce the omni-blade.  The nanites create synthesis, not indoctrination

[TheConstantOne]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

My version of post-game "clarification" and "clarity". Wrote it up in about 30 minutes, so there's bound to be some bad logic, spelling, grammar, and what-not...

If Indoctrination theory is true:

Introduce a new system: Squad Loyalty; similar to Shepard Paragon/Renegade system
- Based on Shepard's treatment of that character; dependent on how many games this Shepard has completed (ie, not penalized for not playing ME1/2)
--- How many complete conversations? Did Shepard complete ME1 side-mission, ME2 loyalty mission, DLC missions? How early were they recruited?
--- Is the character Shepard's Love Interest?
--- Previous Reaper contact: Did the character fight Sovereign-Saren? The human Reaper? Did they go aboard the derelict Reaper (IFF mission)? Cerberus Reaper artifact mission?

Control (difficulty: average)
- Shepard fully Indoctrinated and becomes the final boss; ME1 mecha-Saren revisited
- Player takes control of one of two other squadmates ("choose your team carefully"), their choice; uses previously equipped weapons and powers
- Shepard has full access to all his/her powers at enhanced strength; uses same weapons that were equipped; taunts former teammates, "Control is the only way"
- Fight on a timer; player can make several alignment-based interrupts during fight if they just try to survive; Reaper forces join fight as backup with progressive strength
--- If timer runs out/player lives long enough, history check occurs
--- --- Squad loyalty > 50%: Shepard can be talked down, break Indoctrination; Harbinger disoriented; repeat Sovereign death
--- --- --- Shepard rejoins party, activates Crucible; Reapers defeated; An End Once And For All
--- --- Squad loyalty ≤ 50%: Shepard refuses to stop, player must kill Shepard; Harbinger disoriented; repeat Sovereign death
--- --- --- Low EMS: Shepard kills non-player teammate as proof of his complete Indoctrination
--- --- --- Player fights off Reaper forces and activates the Crucible; Reapers defeated; An End Once And For All
--- If Shepard is killed before timer runs out, Harbinger becomes disoriented; repeat Sovereign death
--- --- --- Player fights off Reaper forces and activates the Crucible; Reapers defeated; An End Once And For All

Synthesis (difficulty: hard)
- Shepard liquefied into new Reaper and becomes the final boss; ME2 human Reaper revisited
- Player takes control of one of two other squadmates ("choose your team carefully"), their choice; uses previously equipped weapons and powers
- Shepard, as new Reaper, taunts former teammates during fight; attempts to persuade them that Synthesis is the only way
- Fight on a timer; player can make several alignment-based interrupts during fight if they survive; Reaper forces join fight as backup with progressive strength
--- If timer runs out/player lives long enough, history check occurs
--- --- Squad loyalty > 50%: Shepard can be talked down, convinced he's wrong; Shepard-Reaper turns on Harbinger and Reapers
--- --- --- Player fights off Reaper forces and activates the Crucible while Shepard-Reaper engages other Reapers; Reapers defeated; An End Once And For All
--- --- Squad loyalty ≤ 50%: Shepard refuses to stop, player must survive Shepard-Reaper's attacks while slowly moving towards the Crucible
--- --- --- Low EMS: non-player teammate sacrifices himself as a shield/distraction
--- --- --- Player fights off Reaper forces and activates the Crucible; Reapers defeated; An End Once And For All

Destroy (difficulty: varies based on assets)
- Shepard awakens in rubble, Harbinger becomes the final boss
- Player retains control of Shepard; Reaper forces swarm team, Thanix fight on crack
- Multiple history/choice checks take place; EMS checks take place; Normandy upgrade checks take place
--- Cinematic battle ensues with results/losses based on checks
- Shepard and team must survive Reaper attacks while slowly moving towards the Crucible; acquired assets make appearances in support roles, reducing difficulty
--- Krogan airdrops, Volus bombers, Geth Primes, Asari commandos, Elcor "tanks", ME2 character cameos, Salarian STG, other Spectres, Conrad Verner, etc.
- Harbinger eventually returns to "assume direct control" of the fight
--- Harbinger attempts to Indoctrinate squadmates after failing with Shepard
--- --- Squad loyalty > 50%: squadmate(s) shakes off Indoctrination attempts
--- --- Squad loyalty ≤ 50%: squadmate(s) turns on Shepard; can kill or incapacitate (see Feros mission)
--- Cinematic battle ensues with results/losses based on previous checks; Normandy and other assets distract Harbinger while Shepard and team move to Crucible
- Shepard and squad fight off Reaper forces and activate the Crucible; Reapers defeated; An End Once And For All
- Final results based on EMS value
--- EMS ≥ X (some relatively high value): Reapers destroyed with minimal losses; "happy" ending
--- X > EMS ≥ Y (some "default" value): Reapers destroyed with moderate losses; Shepard or teammate may die; "default" ending
--- Y > EMS ≥ Z (the "minimum" value): Reapers destroyed with heavy losses; Shepard, teammates, and/or Normandy may die; "bittersweet" ending

Your choices matter.

If they roll with indoc theory, this would be an extremely cool way to tie everything together.  And create nostalgia for the previous games

[Drago6667]

Hello all!
I don't know if this had been said yet so I'm going to.

The wiki (If it's right) says that the "Reaper Brain" lowers the EMS requirements for the best "control Reapers" ending

And the "Reaper Heart" lowers the EMS requirements for the best "destroy Reapers" endings. 

Doesn't that seem a little odd to you?  

To get the Brain you have to SAVE the collecter base. A Renegade option.
To get the Heart you have to DESTORY it. A Paragon option.

What do you guys think?


LINK http://masseffect.wi...le#Reaper_Brain

[llbountyhunter]

TheConstantOne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

 I've had a new idea on the ending and some evidence to sugest that synthesis is NOT space magic!  I figured I'd run these thoughts by everyone and keep meaningful discussion alive and well.
I'm coming to the belief that only the Reaper-child scene at the end was the hallucination.  You can explain the previous scenes easily enough without delving into indoctrination.  At the moment when Shepard passes out by the control panel, I believe the Reapers become partially affected by the Crucible.  Given what it can do to the Reapers, I'm thinking that even while joined with the Citadel in its "inert" state, the Crucible acts as a sort of reverse indoctrination device, i.e. the Reapers are given suggestions about alternatives to approaching the organic-synthetic problem: "imagine new possibilities" as the kid phrases it.  The Reaper-child, as the embodiment of Harbinger's mind, wakes Shepard up and puts him/her in the scenario that I think most of us feel is an illusion.  Harbinger, under the Crucible's Reaper-controlling influence, isn't trying to control Shep (in fact, Shepard may be on the verge of death right now, more on that in a moment) and so presents our favorite commander with a variety of choices reflecting the capability of just what the device can do depending on how well it was built (represented by war readiness.) Obviously, the Reapers still value preserving themselves and so would be very negative of destroy and much more amicable towards the other two options.  In the end though, Shepard's choice in the illusion guides him/her towards using the control panel to trigger the desired outcome.
On this note, I give the endings reimagined and ****proof that synthesis is not star magic!****

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well.  Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes.  The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives.  Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here.  The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade.  The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics.  A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible.  This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.  

Shepard, being near death, could then pass away after this hallucination (or pull through, depending on war readiness and Shep's resolve: Shep's will to live would be lower with endings (2) and (3) as s/he believes that a physical death is coming.)

Sorry for the text mountain but I'm hoping for some kind of debate from this 

indocternation, or reverse-indocternation, wont re-write your dna or make you partly syntheitc

You're right, it won't.  The reverse-indoc is a way to communicate and does NOT facilitate synthesis.  You must not have read far enough into what I wrote.  The Crucible produces nanites to interact with DNA in the synthesis ending.  This is a highly advanced version of what the omni-tool does to produce the omni-blade.  The nanites create synthesis, not indoctrination

still kinda skechy.... taking that kind of leap from the omni-tool to synthesis.... dont really know that much on how it works... id rather not make those kind of vague assumptions, IMO

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 10 avril 2012 - 11:22 .

[TheConstantOne]

Drago6667 wrote...

Hello all!
I don't know if this had been said yet so I'm going to.

The wiki (If it's right) says that the "Reaper Brain" lowers the EMS requirements for the best "control Reapers" ending

And the "Reaper Heart" lowers the EMS requirements for the best "destroy Reapers" endings. 

Doesn't that seem a little odd to you?  

To get the Brain you have to SAVE the collecter base. A Renegade option.
To get the Heart you have to DESTORY it. A Paragon option.

What do you guys think?


LINK http://masseffect.wi...le#Reaper_Brain

I considered this tidbit when I came up with my idea for what is actually going on with the ending ( I was quoted a few posts above, if you're curious.)  I'm thinking that the Reaper Brain, in computing algortihms for the Crucible, favors an outcome that doesn't destroy the Reapers and synthetics.  Thus it is easier for the Crucible to achieve the Control scenario with less resources.  The Heart becomes a Crucible power source.  It would probably be easier for organics to build the Crucible in a way that favors a Destroy burst with this scenario and not be redirected via Reaper calculations.

But I'm thinking the Crucible is acting as a reverse indocrination device on the Reapers, so Brain or no, the Reapers are being guided into considering alternatives for their mass genocide

[TheConstantOne]

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

 I've had a new idea on the ending and some evidence to sugest that synthesis is NOT space magic!  I figured I'd run these thoughts by everyone and keep meaningful discussion alive and well.
I'm coming to the belief that only the Reaper-child scene at the end was the hallucination.  You can explain the previous scenes easily enough without delving into indoctrination.  At the moment when Shepard passes out by the control panel, I believe the Reapers become partially affected by the Crucible.  Given what it can do to the Reapers, I'm thinking that even while joined with the Citadel in its "inert" state, the Crucible acts as a sort of reverse indoctrination device, i.e. the Reapers are given suggestions about alternatives to approaching the organic-synthetic problem: "imagine new possibilities" as the kid phrases it.  The Reaper-child, as the embodiment of Harbinger's mind, wakes Shepard up and puts him/her in the scenario that I think most of us feel is an illusion.  Harbinger, under the Crucible's Reaper-controlling influence, isn't trying to control Shep (in fact, Shepard may be on the verge of death right now, more on that in a moment) and so presents our favorite commander with a variety of choices reflecting the capability of just what the device can do depending on how well it was built (represented by war readiness.) Obviously, the Reapers still value preserving themselves and so would be very negative of destroy and much more amicable towards the other two options.  In the end though, Shepard's choice in the illusion guides him/her towards using the control panel to trigger the desired outcome.
On this note, I give the endings reimagined and ****proof that synthesis is not star magic!****

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well.  Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes.  The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives.  Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here.  The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade.  The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics.  A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible.  This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.  

Shepard, being near death, could then pass away after this hallucination (or pull through, depending on war readiness and Shep's resolve: Shep's will to live would be lower with endings (2) and (3) as s/he believes that a physical death is coming.)

Sorry for the text mountain but I'm hoping for some kind of debate from this 

indocternation, or reverse-indocternation, wont re-write your dna or make you partly syntheitc

You're right, it won't.  The reverse-indoc is a way to communicate and does NOT facilitate synthesis.  You must not have read far enough into what I wrote.  The Crucible produces nanites to interact with DNA in the synthesis ending.  This is a highly advanced version of what the omni-tool does to produce the omni-blade.  The nanites create synthesis, not indoctrination

still kinda skechy.... taking that kind of leap from the omni-tool to synthesis.... dont really know that much on how it works... id rather not make those kind of vague assumptions, IMO

Haha vague assumptions are still better than leaving the endings alone 

You're right in that we don't know how the synthesis is actually achieved but with nanites it would be possible and the tech for quickly producing such things is in the game.  I suggest this idea because it does allow what we were given is a true ending to the Reaper threat.  A poorly explained ending... but still more palatable to me than assuming the ending was incomplete and had more battles to fight.  That's my biggest issue with mainstream IT  personally

[Rifneno]

TheConstantOne wrote...

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well. Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes. The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

That assumes all synthetic life has some core component, some vulnerability in common. Which is extremely unlikely. Especially considering in over a billion years no one has found that vulnerability or they'd have used it on the Reapers.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives. Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here. The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

Seems like a terrible solution to the Reapers, but viable enough.

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade. The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics. A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible. This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.

First, that's basically the process used to make husks and other Reaper crimes against nature. Second, that's merely putting synthetic implants in organics. It's not making a true hybrid. Which makes sense since organic and synthetic are mutually exclusive by their very nature. It's like trying to make something burning hot and freezing cold at the same time. Third, this is all done with Reaper tech. If Reapers had the technology to huskify billions of people at once, from range, they wouldn't be relying on Dragon's Teeth.

[RealStyli]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

RealStyli wrote...

So what's new?

I spent my day off catching up on Game Of Thrones. If I hadn't been let down by the ending of ME3, I probably would've been playing the multiplayer or starting my renegade play-through.... *sigh*

I have this theory that the godchild is actually Joffrey..

It would make more sense that the actual ending of ME3 as it stands!

[llbountyhunter]

TheConstantOne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

 I've had a new idea on the ending and some evidence to sugest that synthesis is NOT space magic!  I figured I'd run these thoughts by everyone and keep meaningful discussion alive and well.
I'm coming to the belief that only the Reaper-child scene at the end was the hallucination.  You can explain the previous scenes easily enough without delving into indoctrination.  At the moment when Shepard passes out by the control panel, I believe the Reapers become partially affected by the Crucible.  Given what it can do to the Reapers, I'm thinking that even while joined with the Citadel in its "inert" state, the Crucible acts as a sort of reverse indoctrination device, i.e. the Reapers are given suggestions about alternatives to approaching the organic-synthetic problem: "imagine new possibilities" as the kid phrases it.  The Reaper-child, as the embodiment of Harbinger's mind, wakes Shepard up and puts him/her in the scenario that I think most of us feel is an illusion.  Harbinger, under the Crucible's Reaper-controlling influence, isn't trying to control Shep (in fact, Shepard may be on the verge of death right now, more on that in a moment) and so presents our favorite commander with a variety of choices reflecting the capability of just what the device can do depending on how well it was built (represented by war readiness.) Obviously, the Reapers still value preserving themselves and so would be very negative of destroy and much more amicable towards the other two options.  In the end though, Shepard's choice in the illusion guides him/her towards using the control panel to trigger the desired outcome.
On this note, I give the endings reimagined and ****proof that synthesis is not star magic!****

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well.  Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes.  The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives.  Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here.  The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade.  The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics.  A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible.  This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.  

Shepard, being near death, could then pass away after this hallucination (or pull through, depending on war readiness and Shep's resolve: Shep's will to live would be lower with endings (2) and (3) as s/he believes that a physical death is coming.)

Sorry for the text mountain but I'm hoping for some kind of debate from this 

indocternation, or reverse-indocternation, wont re-write your dna or make you partly syntheitc

You're right, it won't.  The reverse-indoc is a way to communicate and does NOT facilitate synthesis.  You must not have read far enough into what I wrote.  The Crucible produces nanites to interact with DNA in the synthesis ending.  This is a highly advanced version of what the omni-tool does to produce the omni-blade.  The nanites create synthesis, not indoctrination

still kinda skechy.... taking that kind of leap from the omni-tool to synthesis.... dont really know that much on how it works... id rather not make those kind of vague assumptions, IMO

Haha vague assumptions are still better than leaving the endings alone 

You're right in that we don't know how the synthesis is actually achieved but with nanites it would be possible and the tech for quickly producing such things is in the game.  I suggest this idea because it does allow what we were given is a true ending to the Reaper threat.  A poorly explained ending... but still more palatable to me than assuming the ending was incomplete and had more battles to fight.  That's my biggest issue with mainstream IT  personally

i thought that with IT the ending choice cinematics dont actually happen- theyre are more figerative than literal, like the relays dont actually blow up.....

also since the ending is indocternation, your basically fightling mentally with harbinger, right? 
my take on things is that if you choose destroy you beat harbinger in the real world (kinda like how killing saren, diabled sovereign in me1)... any thoughts on this?

[Sire Styx]

My idea about the collector base is this:

If you saved the base, you obviously thought we could learn something from it and you're more inclined to choose to use the reapers (control).
If you destroyed the base then you're obviously not wanting to have anything to do with the reapers and are more likely to destroy them.

Alternatively, if indoctrination has been ongoing, then by keeping the base you let Cerberus have more of the technology so it has a greater indoctrination affect. If you destroyed the base, less is about and so the indoctrination is less. When you storm through the base you are influenced by the tech.

[llbountyhunter]

Sire Styx wrote...

My idea about the collector base is this:

If you saved the base, you obviously thought we could learn something from it and you're more inclined to choose to use the reapers (control).
If you destroyed the base then you're obviously not wanting to have anything to do with the reapers and are more likely to destroy them.

Alternatively, if indoctrination has been ongoing, then by keeping the base you let Cerberus have more of the technology so it has a greater indoctrination affect. If you destroyed the base, less is about and so the indoctrination is less. When you storm through the base you are influenced by the tech.

this is kind of shown in the current endings of you have REALLY low EMS.

if you destroy the base in me2, your only option in me3 ending is destroy, if you keep it your only onption is control. (i think.... like 90% sure on this... might want to confirm though)

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 10 avril 2012 - 11:48 .

[TheConstantOne]

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

 I've had a new idea on the ending and some evidence to sugest that synthesis is NOT space magic!  I figured I'd run these thoughts by everyone and keep meaningful discussion alive and well.
I'm coming to the belief that only the Reaper-child scene at the end was the hallucination.  You can explain the previous scenes easily enough without delving into indoctrination.  At the moment when Shepard passes out by the control panel, I believe the Reapers become partially affected by the Crucible.  Given what it can do to the Reapers, I'm thinking that even while joined with the Citadel in its "inert" state, the Crucible acts as a sort of reverse indoctrination device, i.e. the Reapers are given suggestions about alternatives to approaching the organic-synthetic problem: "imagine new possibilities" as the kid phrases it.  The Reaper-child, as the embodiment of Harbinger's mind, wakes Shepard up and puts him/her in the scenario that I think most of us feel is an illusion.  Harbinger, under the Crucible's Reaper-controlling influence, isn't trying to control Shep (in fact, Shepard may be on the verge of death right now, more on that in a moment) and so presents our favorite commander with a variety of choices reflecting the capability of just what the device can do depending on how well it was built (represented by war readiness.) Obviously, the Reapers still value preserving themselves and so would be very negative of destroy and much more amicable towards the other two options.  In the end though, Shepard's choice in the illusion guides him/her towards using the control panel to trigger the desired outcome.
On this note, I give the endings reimagined and ****proof that synthesis is not star magic!****

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well.  Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes.  The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives.  Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here.  The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade.  The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics.  A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible.  This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.  

Shepard, being near death, could then pass away after this hallucination (or pull through, depending on war readiness and Shep's resolve: Shep's will to live would be lower with endings (2) and (3) as s/he believes that a physical death is coming.)

Sorry for the text mountain but I'm hoping for some kind of debate from this 

indocternation, or reverse-indocternation, wont re-write your dna or make you partly syntheitc

You're right, it won't.  The reverse-indoc is a way to communicate and does NOT facilitate synthesis.  You must not have read far enough into what I wrote.  The Crucible produces nanites to interact with DNA in the synthesis ending.  This is a highly advanced version of what the omni-tool does to produce the omni-blade.  The nanites create synthesis, not indoctrination

still kinda skechy.... taking that kind of leap from the omni-tool to synthesis.... dont really know that much on how it works... id rather not make those kind of vague assumptions, IMO

Haha vague assumptions are still better than leaving the endings alone 

You're right in that we don't know how the synthesis is actually achieved but with nanites it would be possible and the tech for quickly producing such things is in the game.  I suggest this idea because it does allow what we were given is a true ending to the Reaper threat.  A poorly explained ending... but still more palatable to me than assuming the ending was incomplete and had more battles to fight.  That's my biggest issue with mainstream IT  personally

i thought that with IT the ending choice cinematics dont actually happen- theyre are more figerative than literal, like the relays dont actually blow up.....

also since the ending is indocternation, your basically fightling mentally with harbinger, right? 
my take on things is that if you choose destroy you beat harbinger in the real world (kinda like how killing saren, diabled sovereign in me1)... any thoughts on this?

Assuming IT is true, yes I agree with you.  This is what happens.  And it is a nice solution.  My gripe is, approaching this from a consumer of Bioware products perspective, I would feel cheated because, whether you beat Harbinger or not, Shep still has to get to the Crucible to destroy the Reapers.  That's like purposefully taking the last chapter out of a book.

Until the EC is realeased, everything is conjecture, of course.  Still, doesn't hurt to speculate on what the ending may actually be.  Many on this thread seem open to different ending interpretations but also thoughtfully critical.  A good place to try and flesh out a new idea 

[llbountyhunter]

RealStyli wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

RealStyli wrote...

So what's new?

I spent my day off catching up on Game Of Thrones. If I hadn't been let down by the ending of ME3, I probably would've been playing the multiplayer or starting my renegade play-through.... *sigh*

I have this theory that the godchild is actually Joffrey..

It would make more sense that the actual ending of ME3 as it stands!

quick, shepard! give the catylist some wine!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

 Reply to IIbountyhunter and others who mentioned the Sovreign backlash as possibility in Harbinger following IT.

The flaw that caused the backlash in Sovreign has been corrected according to a codex entry in ME3 (think it was sovreigns) so it probably will not happen to Harbinger if IT proves to be true. No I think we are going to have to take him on in some other way.

[TheConstantOne]

Rifneno wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

1) Destroy: The Crucible emits a signal that essentially shuts down a fundamental process that all synthetic life has in common, destroying the Reapers, all AI, and quite possible a large number of VI processes as well. Technology gets the most set back in this ending and all synthetic life perishes. The collapse of such advanced programs could affect the workings of the mass relays and cause them to shut themselves down.

That assumes all synthetic life has some core component, some vulnerability in common. Which is extremely unlikely. Especially considering in over a billion years no one has found that vulnerability or they'd have used it on the Reapers.

2) Control: As a type of device capable of indoc-like feats, Shepard's mind is codified and transmitted to as a program to override the Reaper's prime directives. Shepard gains control of the Reapers and what happens is largely up to your Shep from here. The relays don't have to be destroyed in this ending (as the end sequence doesn't clearly show them failing for the control ending.)

Seems like a terrible solution to the Reapers, but viable enough.

3)Synthesis: According to the codex, the omni-tool quickly manufactures nanoparticles to create the omni-blade. The Crucible does a smiliar feat in this ending: the device manufactures billions of nanites that interact with DNA to create synthetic functions in organics. A command signal could also be emitted to modify all synthetic life as necessary. Mass relays are given the instructions to produce this nanite signal combo via a command sent by the Crucible. This ending would require a lot of energy, enough to deplete the mass realys to the point where they cannot sustain themselves and, thus, cease to function.

First, that's basically the process used to make husks and other Reaper crimes against nature. Second, that's merely putting synthetic implants in organics. It's not making a true hybrid. Which makes sense since organic and synthetic are mutually exclusive by their very nature. It's like trying to make something burning hot and freezing cold at the same time. Third, this is all done with Reaper tech. If Reapers had the technology to huskify billions of people at once, from range, they wouldn't be relying on Dragon's Teeth.

1) On destroy: True, the fundamental process seems unlikely.  I'll concede that.  Still, not sure how else to explain the destruction of *all* synthetic life (again, this is taking the endings at near face value.)  A super virus of some kind.

2)On synthesis: Exactly.  The husk process is another good example of nanite induced synthesis.    The difference here is that you're organic components wouldn't be replaced with machinery.  Rather, you would achieve a true organic-synthetic hybrid and not a combiantion that doesn't destroy the identity of your species.  It bolsters life and doesn't supplant it

[Big Bad]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

 Reply to IIbountyhunter and others who mentioned the Sovreign backlash as possibility in Harbinger following IT.

The flaw that caused the backlash in Sovreign has been corrected according to a codex entry in ME3 (think it was sovreigns) so it probably will not happen to Harbinger if IT proves to be true. No I think we are going to have to take him on in some other way.

I still like the idea of somehow going inside of Harbinger and fighting him there.  Maybe detonating a giant bomb or something, all the while having to fight off indoctrination, as well as other Reaper defenses.

Edit:  And maybe Joker could be taking him on with the Normandy at the same time.

Modifié par Big Bad, 11 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[llbountyhunter]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

 Reply to IIbountyhunter and others who mentioned the Sovreign backlash as possibility in Harbinger following IT.

The flaw that caused the backlash in Sovreign has been corrected according to a codex entry in ME3 (think it was sovreigns) so it probably will not happen to Harbinger if IT proves to be true. No I think we are going to have to take him on in some other way.

But its kinda different this time isn't it? Before you defeated sovereigns pawn, and this time its a direct mind to mind conflict.

[SirLugash]

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Really?  I must have missed that, too.  Indoctrination!!!  jk, jk  I still think that Shepard started seeing things even before he was knocked out, that would explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams.  The tentacle.... well, I don't know about that one.  

Edit: Wow, I just looked up a picture of Harbinger.  You're right, Rifneno.

Double Edit: Just to clarify, I do not think the missing tentacle was indoc.  It was not there even before the final scene.

Yeah...  I'm just wondering whether he lost it in battle or if he never had that one.  Found this pic on Gildor's forum showing Harbinger next to a regular capital ship:

I don't think that this picture is accurate.
In this picture, Harbinger looks too much like a regular capital ship.
If you look at the data pad image from ME2 you realise that his shape is a lot more different (especially considering the side view):
farm6.static.flickr.com/5267/5627450165_d3d220e3cb.jpg

Modifié par SirLugash, 11 avril 2012 - 12:12 .

[RealStyli]

llbountyhunter wrote...

RealStyli wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

RealStyli wrote...

So what's new?

I spent my day off catching up on Game Of Thrones. If I hadn't been let down by the ending of ME3, I probably would've been playing the multiplayer or starting my renegade play-through.... *sigh*

I have this theory that the godchild is actually Joffrey..

It would make more sense that the actual ending of ME3 as it stands!

quick, shepard! give the catylist some wine!

I kept thinking of Mass Effect anytime they mentioned the Citadel.

It would be great if someone could get hold of a Mass Effect character in that Sean Bean pose with the words "Summer DLC is coming" written below it!

[Sire Styx]

By the way everyone:
https://twitter.com/...787437470461953
It doesn't really prove anything but it's somewhat interesting.
If true, then the ending may not be vague and imagination-driven.

[hoodaticus]

Mass Effect 4: The Truth would be nice. We have yet to take back Earth, AS PROMISED. I feel ripped off.

[Sire Styx]

SirLugash wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Really?  I must have missed that, too.  Indoctrination!!!  jk, jk  I still think that Shepard started seeing things even before he was knocked out, that would explain the shrubs and trees from the dreams.  The tentacle.... well, I don't know about that one.  

Edit: Wow, I just looked up a picture of Harbinger.  You're right, Rifneno.

Double Edit: Just to clarify, I do not think the missing tentacle was indoc.  It was not there even before the final scene.

Yeah...  I'm just wondering whether he lost it in battle or if he never had that one.  Found this pic on Gildor's forum showing Harbinger next to a regular capital ship:

I don't think that this picture is accurate.
In this picture, Harbinger looks too much like a regular capital ship.
If you look at the data pad image from ME2: images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100127210648/masseffect/images/3/38/Harbinger.png you realise that his shape is a lot more different (especially considering the side view).

I know people say they look like cuttlefish or giant squids.
But to me, they also have a flea-like look about them. As if they're giant parasites. Anyone else get that impression?

(edit: It's not a strict look alike, I mean mainly with the side legs and that. Fleas have a more rounded abdomen I think)

Modifié par Sire Styx, 11 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[RealStyli]

Sire Styx wrote...



I know people say they look like cuttlefish or giant squids.
But to me, they also have a flea-like look about them. As if they're giant parasites. Anyone else get that impression?

(edit: It's not a strict look alike, I mean mainly with the side legs and that. Fleas have a more rounded abdomen I think)

Yeah, I thought the same - more like an insect than a crustacean. They look a bit like ticks. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

 Reply to IIbountyhunter and others who mentioned the Sovreign backlash as possibility in Harbinger following IT.

The flaw that caused the backlash in Sovreign has been corrected according to a codex entry in ME3 (think it was sovreigns) so it probably will not happen to Harbinger if IT proves to be true. No I think we are going to have to take him on in some other way.

But its kinda different this time isn't it? Before you defeated sovereigns pawn, and this time its a direct mind to mind conflict.

Well Sovreign was controlling Saren directly when the backlash happened and it is that flaw that is mentioned as fixed.

And we actually don't know how direct it is. Harbinger might be controlling the Indoctrination, but without going all "assuming direct control" on Shepard. I at least highly doubt he is just gonna be sitting still next to the beam, not even attacking nearby forces.

But off course this is stil under the assumption that IT is true.