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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#35251
Earthborn_Shepard

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Nauks wrote...

RoyalGambit wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

twitter.com/#%21/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968 

Hope... Rekindled..

You know, I'd love to think positively.
But this may as well be hinting to some gay ass "retake Omega" DLC we can do with out auto-save back on the Normandy after recovering from the ending depression.


that's not the point, he states that the ending expansion was some of the things he was referring to - which is strange, because that means it must have been planned already.

#35252
Vahilor

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Gallifreya wrote...

BlueDemonX wrote...

I actually don´t really know if the Indoctrination Theory is to be preferred to the other endings...

Then it would mean that all the Sheps that choose one of the other endings fail....Meh.
As you have perhaps realized by now, I´m not that put off by the endings, but I want to see some logical issues sorted. And get more things clarified (I know, you guys hate that word :D).

And I know, it could have been done better, but those guys must have had something in mind when they thought up these endings...


Yes. They did fail. Too bad they let that reaper child talk them out of their goal of destroying the monstrosities that are Reapers.


Probably some people liked to be Husks or they believe you can control things so superiour... but there are a lot of people who tried stuff like that and they failed... and I think it would be really interessting... to see a SHep trying to controll the reapers... and end up as a reaper as well destroying earth cause he was tricked into becoming the thing he hated/wanted to destroy most in the beginning.

ANd somhow I allways think it is funny.. there is a child.. and still some people think cause it is a child it must tell the truth.. I think that people never played FEAR.

#35253
Earthborn_Shepard

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I'm pretty afraid that Bioware really comes out and says "yeah Shep is alive on the Citadel ruins which crashed on earth". This, of course, is still bull**** because of the explosions and stuff, but yeah.

#35254
Capeo

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Nauks wrote...

RoyalGambit wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

twitter.com/#%21/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968 

Hope... Rekindled..

You know, I'd love to think positively.
But this may as well be hinting to some gay ass "retake Omega" DLC we can do with out auto-save back on the Normandy after recovering from the ending depression.


that's not the point, he states that the ending expansion was some of the things he was referring to - which is strange, because that means it must have been planned already.


It wasn't planned.  Gamble already stated they didn't include "clarification" because they didn't think people would want to see the effects of their choices.  As dumb as that is.  In that tweet he's just sayin "moar DLC!!!".  He doesn't even actually say "Yes" per se.

#35255
warlock22

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RoyalGambit wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

twitter.com/#%21/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968 

Hope... Rekindled..

Indeed. I hope it is what we think/hope it is.

#35256
estebanus

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Pascal219 wrote...

twitter.com/#%21/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968 

 

Oh... My god...

My resolve in IT has just been hardened. :o

#35257
Earthborn_Shepard

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Capeo wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Nauks wrote...

RoyalGambit wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

twitter.com/#%21/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968 

Hope... Rekindled..

You know, I'd love to think positively.
But this may as well be hinting to some gay ass "retake Omega" DLC we can do with out auto-save back on the Normandy after recovering from the ending depression.


that's not the point, he states that the ending expansion was some of the things he was referring to - which is strange, because that means it must have been planned already.


It wasn't planned.  Gamble already stated they didn't include "clarification" because they didn't think people would want to see the effects of their choices.  As dumb as that is.  In that tweet he's just sayin "moar DLC!!!".  He doesn't even actually say "Yes" per se.


...I don't think you get what the tweet is about. This is his answer to a fan who asked if he was referring to the ending DLC when he said that fans should hold on to their savegames forever. And he asked it quite a while ago.

#35258
Reever

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Vahilor wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

BlueDemonX wrote...

I actually don´t really know if the Indoctrination Theory is to be preferred to the other endings...

Then it would mean that all the Sheps that choose one of the other endings fail....Meh.
As you have perhaps realized by now, I´m not that put off by the endings, but I want to see some logical issues sorted. And get more things clarified (I know, you guys hate that word :D).

And I know, it could have been done better, but those guys must have had something in mind when they thought up these endings...


Yes. They did fail. Too bad they let that reaper child talk them out of their goal of destroying the monstrosities that are Reapers.


Probably some people liked to be Husks or they believe you can control things so superiour... but there are a lot of people who tried stuff like that and they failed... and I think it would be really interessting... to see a SHep trying to controll the reapers... and end up as a reaper as well destroying earth cause he was tricked into becoming the thing he hated/wanted to destroy most in the beginning.

ANd somhow I allways think it is funny.. there is a child.. and still some people think cause it is a child it must tell the truth.. I think that people never played FEAR.


I understand what you mean, but then I think it would have been fair to show us what those choices really do. Like show us how we fail to control the Reapers or anything. Or give us the choice to outright refuse any option the Starkid presents us.
By saying the only goal was destroying them you are right, but if presented with other options which may be better (at least in Shep´s opinion) I think one has the right to choose them. And also be shown what they do.
That´s why I don´t really lie the theory...cause it isn´t enough implied in the game. And this is the trilogy´s end for Pete´s sake, I´d like to at least not have an ambiguous ending, or an ending for which I have to dig for in order to understand....

#35259
balance5050

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Hawk227 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

 Hawk227:

Actually the cables (if it is that) in the breath scene are clearly not reaper tech. The reaper cables have slightly different coloration and the pattern on them is circular with equal spacing between the circles. The cable in the breath scene however has a spiral design running along it.

Still I don't think it is cable at all, but a piece of metal. I argue this because the "cable" seems completely rigid in the scene and not like something supposed to bend. In fact I will g o check those metal spikes that is used to reinforce concrete to see if there is any connection.

Edit: Rebars (as I just found out the metal in concrete is called) defienetly has a spiral pattern on it, but can't be sure if it's the same without a picture to picture comparison, something I find incredibly difficult to set up on my iPad. Can someone else do this so we can get a final answer on the "cable." 

Even better do it with three pictures, one of Rebar's, one of reaper cables and one of the actual cable in the breath scene.

In advance thanks if someone does this.


I looked at it again, and I frankly disagree. If you look closely at the cable in the breath scene, it isn't fully rigid. It comes towards shepard and then in the middle starts bend more steeply down and towards shepards legs (it's pretty slight, and totally imperceptible in the darker images). This would be a reasonably natural position for a cable suspended over a piece of rubble. It's also not spiral got a spiral pattern. The only major difference is that it's shinier than most of the reaper cables in the game. I can't seem to post pictures, but I've got links to images/videos for support.

Also, it looks nothing like rebar.

manskeconstruction.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/istock_rebar6.266141545_std.jpg - Rebar

i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu288/nick_Crx/Untitled-157.png - Not very good image of reaper cables. breath scene

www.youtube.com/watch - Pause it at 19:31 for a nice, bright shot of the breath scene cable

www.youtube.com/watch - Pause it at 3:15 for a very good shot of Legion plugged into reaper device


Posted Image

Posted Image 

Still up for debate imo. Could just be low res rebar.

#35260
Ravel1992

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Vahilor wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

BlueDemonX wrote...

I actually don´t really know if the Indoctrination Theory is to be preferred to the other endings...

Then it would mean that all the Sheps that choose one of the other endings fail....Meh.
As you have perhaps realized by now, I´m not that put off by the endings, but I want to see some logical issues sorted. And get more things clarified (I know, you guys hate that word :D).

And I know, it could have been done better, but those guys must have had something in mind when they thought up these endings...


Yes. They did fail. Too bad they let that reaper child talk them out of their goal of destroying the monstrosities that are Reapers.


Probably some people liked to be Husks or they believe you can control things so superiour... but there are a lot of people who tried stuff like that and they failed... and I think it would be really interessting... to see a SHep trying to controll the reapers... and end up as a reaper as well destroying earth cause he was tricked into becoming the thing he hated/wanted to destroy most in the beginning.

ANd somhow I allways think it is funny.. there is a child.. and still some people think cause it is a child it must tell the truth.. I think that people never played FEAR.





 9. Never trust any child construct, be it a ghost or artificial intelligence, or heck even human. They are just creepy. 

 

#35261
Pascal219

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Combined with the other tweet I posted it just might be IT related. The other tweet stated that they're currently testing a new dlc.

#35262
Nauks

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@Earthborn_Shepard "...I don't think you get what the tweet is about. This is his answer to a fan who asked if he was referring to the ending DLC when he said that fans should hold on to their savegames forever. And he asked it quite a while ago."

Fair enough, and I hope you're right and it's not just an unfortunately worded explanation on Gamble's part.

Modifié par Nauks, 11 avril 2012 - 09:37 .


#35263
Baldsake

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I just hope the extended version cleans this mess up, if it's good then i dont even care if its IT or not.

#35264
Hawk227

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balance5050 wrote...


Posted Image

Posted Image 

Still up for debate imo. Could just be low res rebar.


I think that supports my claim. They even took the time to render rebar into the game, and it has a noticably different appearance than the cable in the breath scene. Thanks for posting it.

#35265
natalZ

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Sire Styx wrote...

Foudn this on another fourm:
images.wryterra.com/images/shepeyes.png

Regarding shepard's eyes in control.
Not sure of the authencicit, erm, authicinuytyyt-

I'm not sure if it's real.


Wow. A full HD image and there still ppl that doesn't believe in the IT?

:wizard:

#35266
Sire Styx

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We've got tweets suggesting that DLC was always planned.
No one at bioware is outright denying IT.
There's evidence for IT INGAME.
Many other explanations either defy ingame logic or require evidence OUTSIDE the game.
The metaphors about the crucible and that are also quite fitting.

But if IT is untrue, then Bioware shouldn't have spent the time putting in all these clues and actually made a good game.
I mean, ME3 was good. But I've heard there were loads of bugs. And I've had my share of graphical bugs.

There's a lot of other thigns that annoyed me about this game.
Tali's face was lazy. Diana Allers was an unnecessary addition. You couldn't really speak to people (it was more like the Katsumi/Zaeed thing from ME2). None of your choices mattered. If you killed someone in a previous game, then the reapers essentially made a puppet for the hell of it (e.g. Rachni queen, Legion). They spent loads of time killing off characters and lying to us on twitter, which could have been put into making a good ending.

The child in the dreams. Why? Who is he? Just because a child died, would Shepard start to break down? It was a lazy attempt at getting sympathy from the player. They might aswell have had a laser shooting an orphanage. You know, if they showed a dog getting lasered, I'd be more upset than some random child. But why not show Kaiden/Ashely in the dreams? It's more personal??

The Kai lang guy. That seemed like a lazy attempt at making an enemy for us to hate. To be honest, he seemed like such a trivial character. The most irritating part was when he attacked on that Asari world. I kept shooting him in the head with a sniper rifle, while Tali's drone shot out rockets and Garrus calibrated. But using space magic, he just cowered behind a rock recharging his health, not actually attacking me. It seemed like they were artifically (?) trying to make a difficult enemy :S

Harbinger appeared for like, 5 seconds. It was if, 5 minutes before release, they went "oh crap, we've forgotten to add the main enemy in!"
"Quick, just stick a random reaper in and call it Harbinger!"

And the ending was awful. But the Normandy scene afterwards really irrtated me, how your squad mates teleported using space magic. Could they have not spent 5 minutes checking to see if the squadmates you had with you on the ground came out the Normandy? It shouldn't have taken too long for them to see this and correct it.
The only explanation I can think of is this:
www.youtube.com/watch
and your squadmates decided to call joker for a pick up and fly off.

Day one DLC with an important character. That annoyed me. I bought it, but it still annoyed me.
It's as if they planned to chop out something that good ME fans would like. It just makes me wonder if other stuff has been cut for the sake of money. Which could explain some plotholes ingame.


A lot of points indicate a rushed, lazy game. And I really don't want to think that, because I love the ME series. I can forgive any of these points, especially the ones which are contradicted by IT, if bioware have always intended IT and release DLC with IT in it. I will take back everything negative I've said and appologise if IT is true (and is actually added in a good non-lazy way that makes sense).

#35267
Vahilor

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Btw. did you guys see this ?

https://twitter.com/...192018549514240

#35268
Sire Styx

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natalZ wrote...

Sire Styx wrote...

Foudn this on another fourm:
images.wryterra.com/images/shepeyes.png

Regarding shepard's eyes in control.
Not sure of the authencicit, erm, authicinuytyyt-

I'm not sure if it's real.


Wow. A full HD image and there still ppl that doesn't believe in the IT?

:wizard:


That picture is high enough quality that I cannot disbelieve IT now, lol.

#35269
MaximizedAction

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estebanus wrote...

Pascal219 wrote...

twitter.com/#%21/GambleMike/status/187928555408211968 

 

Oh... My god...

My resolve in IT has just been hardened. :o


So let me recap:
The plan for something that is now called Extended Cut existed already prior to the game release ("hold on to your savegames", "if you knew what we're planning you'd hold on to your ME3 copies forever"). But as the announcement stated, the EC will provide clarifications, cinematics, etc.

So, it actually says NOWHERE that the Extended Cut that is to be released IN ITS ENTIRETY only came up after the fan feedback. They are now only adding things to it that will reflect more of our ABC choices?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 avril 2012 - 09:53 .


#35270
Earthborn_Shepard

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Vahilor wrote...

Btw. did you guys see this ?

https://twitter.com/...192018549514240


Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Either they get their own story wrong or this is PROOF that the starchild lies to you. He doesn't say "destroy all Reaper tech", he says "ALL Synthetics".

#35271
RealStyli

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Vahilor wrote...

Btw. did you guys see this ?

https://twitter.com/...192018549514240


*sigh*

As much as we love Jessica, she really will say anything these days to keep us confused! 

#35272
Vahilor

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

Btw. did you guys see this ?

https://twitter.com/...192018549514240


Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Either they get their own story wrong or this is PROOF that the starchild lies to you. He doesn't say "destroy all Reaper tech", he says "ALL Synthetics".


She even made a cryptic statement, when somone asked if the Geth will be destroyed either and she only answered somthing like "Did you see that the Geth were destroyed ?"

#35273
Sire Styx

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Also, incase anyone believes Shepard was on the citadel, please check out the second link in my signature. It shows 3 possible outcomes, Shepard on citadel and falling to earth, Shepard on the Citadel as it explodes and Shepard on earth.
Only the earth one doesn't defy ingame logic.

#35274
Kyzee

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 Hey, everyone! I'm back! :)

So while everyone's in a tizzy over Jessica Merizan's tweets, I thought I'd add my two cents.

This illustrates the danger of putting more weight in some tweets than others. It's much safer, as balance5050 noted, to focus on the in game evidence than the tweets and PR statements of BioWare.

Then again, I would also argue that said tweets and statements should be paid attention to, due to the risk of alienating fans IDT by teasing them and not following through . . . yadda, yadda, yadda. Okay, my even-handedness is getting out of control again; my apologies. :P

Point being, everything from here to the DLC (indeed, everything from ME3's release until now) is nothing but speculation, and no one can definitively declare what the ending or content of the DLC is or will. Only the developers know that, folks. So let's just enjoy our speculation fest, yes? :)

Edit: Ha, you guys beat me to the link! Removed.
Edited for correct info. Whoopsie.

Modifié par Kyzee, 11 avril 2012 - 10:48 .


#35275
schneeland

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RealStyli wrote...

Vahilor wrote...

Btw. did you guys see this ?

https://twitter.com/...192018549514240


*sigh*

As much as we love Jessica, she really will say anything these days to keep us confused! 


So it seems. The only problem is: it actually stopped being funny a while ago.