57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Chief Commander]

Hey guys, cast your vote on this poll:

Do you support the Indoctrination Theory or not?

social.bioware.com/3889039/polls/32062/

Modifié par Chief Commander, 12 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[lex0r11]

How is this one? I'm not sure, too much fanatism themes today. ^^'

Modifié par lex0r11, 12 avril 2012 - 03:00 .

[Sire Styx]

I went to 4chan once. It's not a particularly nice place and I didn't stay long.

Anyway, it reminded me of this picture I saw a while ago:
http://2.bp.blogspot...RL8/s1600/bueno




And what did anyone think of my idea that Shep is in Harbinger?

[Voodzik]

Sire Styx wrote...

I went to 4chan once. It's not a particularly nice place and I didn't stay long.

Anyway, it reminded me of this picture I saw a while ago:

And what did anyone think of my idea that Shep is in Harbinger?

Holy crap, a "Section 8" reference! Now THAT'S obscure, folks. Would it surprise people to learn dude in the pic is actually a super-HERO?

[lex0r11]

Sire Styx wrote...

I went to 4chan once. It's not a particularly nice place and I didn't stay long.

Anyway, it reminded me of this picture I saw a while ago:


*image snipped*


And what did anyone think of my idea that Shep is in Harbinger?

Mother of go.. oh, wait.

Modifié par lex0r11, 12 avril 2012 - 03:08 .

[Eli Parker]

Another show that ending, badly with so many questions (and the "movie" was lame) was Twin Peaks. I love the show, but man how it ending just got to me.

[Kyzee]

lex0r11 wrote...

How is this one? I'm not sure, too much fanatism themes today. ^^'

I think that sums up the hate people on both sides of IDT get, lex0r11. Good job. 

[Kyzee]

 And you know, since "things that ended badly" is the theme right now, I just wanted to say that at least we got IDT . . . or whatever sensible ending BioWare may come up with. While ME3's ending traumatized me for several days, it could've been much worse. When I saw Han Solo, Darth Vader, and the Emperor club dancing, part of my soul actually died.

Just saying.

[Drammattex]

Sajuro wrote...

On another note, I have found a good catchphrase for the Indoctrination Theory
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” Sherlock Holmes.

Funny you should say. I'm reading a lot of Holmes right now (when I'm not reading about the ending to Mass Effect, of course) and I'm seeing an interesting parallel. 

There are a number of articles on the internet about fans demanding a more satisfying ending, Bioware giving them one in DLC, and whether it sets a new precedent--for the public to take issue with a work of art and demand that it be changed. 

But take a look at the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Final Problem." 
If you're unfamiliar: Arthur Conan Doyle kills off Holmes because he's done writing about him. The Strand (where the Holmes stories were published) lost 20,000 subscribers and (apparently) people wore black armbands in the street outside The Strand, assaulted Doyle, and sent him hate mail. Doyle brings Holmes back eventually, and writes more Holmes stories (such as The Hound of the Baskevilles). 

So really, this kind of thing isn't new at all. The internet keeps using the word "unprecedented." But there is some rather (in)famous precedent of people feeling ripped off about an ending.

Sorry for the tangent. I was inspired by your comment since the Holmes example has been on my mind.

On topic, the writing has been so thoroughly excellent throughout that I don't believe the ending is a random, meaningless sequnce of weirdness, but rather a carefully laid out, if somewhat ambiguous, sequence pointing to Shepard's indoctrination. All of those sentiments written in full a few dozen pages back. 

[Eli Parker]

Kyzee wrote...

 And you know, since "things that ended badly" is the theme right now, I just wanted to say that at least we got IDT . . . or whatever sensible ending BioWare may come up with. While ME3's ending traumatized me for several days, it could've been much worse. When I saw Han Solo, Darth Vader, and the Emperor club dancing, part of my soul actually died.

Just saying.

Mine did to, and this is one of the many reasons an IP should end gracefully.  

[Chief Commander]

I created a new poll about the IT. PLEASE help me spread this, so we can gather some data

social.bioware.com/3889039/polls/32062/

[balance5050]

I like how there are these "the star child lied" posts pop up like it wasn't obvious before Ms. Merizan said something.

[Sire Styx]

Chief Commander wrote...

I created a new poll about the IT. PLEASE help me spread this, so we can gather some data

social.bioware.com/3889039/polls/32062/

Voted on it
And you should put a link in your signature

[Sire Styx]

balance5050 wrote...

I like how there are these "the star child lied" posts pop up like it wasn't obvious before Ms. Merizan said something.

He didn't lie, he's just part of Bioware's PR team lol.

[demersel]

Hello everyone. I'm sorry, i haven't read the whole thread, because it is way too long. I don't even know what has become of it and whether it is still on topic. I have an idea concerning the IT, din't know maybe it was already stated or suggested, but still here it is:

First. I belive in the IT. I belive that given all that has happened in the game (and by that i mean onnly in ME3) - this is the only possible explanation.

Now, conserning the ending cinematics - they don't make sense. this is a fact. They don't. None of them, though they are not that different.

But i think that all of them are simply the continuation of the indoctrination process - you are presentented with a choice, which you are forced to make, and then you are being shown the consiquences of that choice, designed to further brake you, destroy your will and mind completly - that's why the relays are exploding, that's why the normandy is fleeing - the reapers want you to think that your friends and allies abandoned you, and that their fate, regardless of your choice is not pleasent, Then they show you the generic crash in the paradise planet - that is to provide limited comfort and serenity - if you were not crushed by the horrors of destruction, and your most trusted friends abandoning you - they give you some final touch of comfort - so you would let go.,. and thus subdue completly.

Now the difference in choices availability, and level of destruction depending on your EMS is easily explained by your character's inner confidence - the more you have done in the game and the more assets you have before the aasault on earth - the stronger your belief in the possibiliy of the victory -
When you are not prepared enough - deep down you know that you are not ready, and the reapers use that against you to crush your will and resolve - they are able to show you the vision of your choice resulting in destruction and deaths of those who fight for you (and thus the destroy as the only option at that point - it is your goal - you can have that - and see the consequences of it. Here enjoy - you destroy us - you oppose us - that is what you get. You can ressist all you whant but this is how it will end).

When you have more assets - you know that victory is maybe possible at best and that to win you must find alternative to fighting - so at this point you are given options, control and later syntethis,


The changes in the consiquenses of your final choice in-game are representation of your state of confidence. You know what you did and what it means, and even reapers can't force you not to achnoledge that. But regardless of your actions in-game you still see the normandy scene - this is their final attempt to crush you emotionally. And they succeed. Then they give you small comfort of your crew sirviving (if you have done enough and confident enough), but stranded on an unknown alien world. They are fine but you will never see them again. That is the message.

Ask yourself, how did YOU feel when expireincing the ending?


Only if you have done most of the things there is to do in the game, only if you are confident enough that you can succeed, only if you do not forget what is your goal (pick destroy) and your mind is strong enough you will break free and wake up. And that is exactly what happens in the game.

Thank you, for your patience.

P.S. My grammar sucks, i know. Had a rough day at work - to lazy and tired to spellcheck. 

Modifié par demersel, 12 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[Chaosbrain]

Big G13 wrote...

Chaosbrain wrote...

hey guys, haven't been here for a few days... anything new about the ending dlc?

There was a Bioware guy on the DA team in here yesterday. He posted a paragraph about 'nutrient rich slug' that was really clever. It had nothing to do with ME3 but it was interesting.

Oh, thanks for the info! Sounds interesting, going to read it.

[Kyzee]

Eli Parker wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

 And you know, since "things that ended badly" is the theme right now, I just wanted to say that at least we got IDT . . . or whatever sensible ending BioWare may come up with. While ME3's ending traumatized me for several days, it could've been much worse. When I saw Han Solo, Darth Vader, and the Emperor club dancing, part of my soul actually died.

Just saying.

Mine did to, and this is one of the many reasons an IP should end gracefully.  

Oh god, I'm old. "IP?"

[NoSpin]

Drammattex wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

On another note, I have found a good catchphrase for the Indoctrination Theory
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” Sherlock Holmes.

Funny you should say. I'm reading a lot of Holmes right now (when I'm not reading about the ending to Mass Effect, of course) and I'm seeing an interesting parallel. 

There are a number of articles on the internet about fans demanding a more satisfying ending, Bioware giving them one in DLC, and whether it sets a new precedent--for the public to take issue with a work of art and demand that it be changed. 

But take a look at the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Final Problem." 
If you're unfamiliar: Arthur Conan Doyle kills off Holmes because he's done writing about him. The Strand (where the Holmes stories were published) lost 20,000 subscribers and (apparently) people wore black armbands in the street outside The Strand, assaulted Doyle, and sent him hate mail. Doyle brings Holmes back eventually, and writes more Holmes stories (such as The Hound of the Baskevilles). 

So really, this kind of thing isn't new at all. The internet keeps using the word "unprecedented." But there is some rather (in)famous precedent of people feeling ripped off about an ending.

Sorry for the tangent. I was inspired by your comment since the Holmes example has been on my mind.

On topic, the writing has been so thoroughly excellent throughout that I don't believe the ending is a random, meaningless sequnce of weirdness, but rather a carefully laid out, if somewhat ambiguous, sequence pointing to Shepard's indoctrination. All of those sentiments written in full a few dozen pages back. 

This. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed Sherlock Holmes and the world pretty much erupted. Funerals were held, letters were written....and so he brought Sherlock back to life.

Of course that doesn't describe IT, we are just waiting for the true ending, but that is a good reminder for those who shout "Artistic Integrity".

[Sire Styx]

Kyzee wrote...

Eli Parker wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

 And you know, since "things that ended badly" is the theme right now, I just wanted to say that at least we got IDT . . . or whatever sensible ending BioWare may come up with. While ME3's ending traumatized me for several days, it could've been much worse. When I saw Han Solo, Darth Vader, and the Emperor club dancing, part of my soul actually died.

Just saying.

Mine did to, and this is one of the many reasons an IP should end gracefully.  

Oh god, I'm old. "IP?"

Intellectual property, prehaps?

[Tirian Thorn]

Kyzee wrote...

Eli Parker wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

 And you know, since "things that ended badly" is the theme right now, I just wanted to say that at least we got IDT . . . or whatever sensible ending BioWare may come up with. While ME3's ending traumatized me for several days, it could've been much worse. When I saw Han Solo, Darth Vader, and the Emperor club dancing, part of my soul actually died.

Just saying.

Mine did to, and this is one of the many reasons an IP should end gracefully.  

Oh god, I'm old. "IP?"

IP = Intellectual Property. 

[Fingertrip]

So, indoctrination theory was just confirmed.

LOL AT THE DISBELIFERS.

[Sammuthegreat]

Sire Styx wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

Oh god, I'm old. "IP?"

Intellectual property, prehaps?

Yup. It's not really correct in the strict definition of what intellectual property is, but it serves.

[Tirian Thorn]

Fingertrip wrote...

So, indoctrination theory was just confirmed.

LOL AT THE DISBELIFERS.

References? 

[Chief Commander]

Sire Styx wrote...

Chief Commander wrote...

I created a new poll about the IT. PLEASE help me spread this, so we can gather some data

social.bioware.com/3889039/polls/32062/

Voted on it
And you should put a link in your signature

Thank you! And thanks for the suggestion

[Sammuthegreat]

Fingertrip wrote...

So, indoctrination theory was just confirmed.

LOL AT THE DISBELIFERS.

Lex0r! We need Liara in here, stat!

Meanwhile - how exactly was the theory just confirmed? I want to believe you, but you're gonna need to back that up.