57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirian Thorn]

waldstr18 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

(i just dropped the mic like one of those hip hop guys.)

...and the crowd just laughs.

makes no sense if there is the possibility of only one ending. Thats what the extended edition should help with by adding "clarity and closure"

It's not "way to difficult" if all of us here came to the same conclusion. You think it would be easy overcoming reaper indoc? C'MON!!!

i cant believe im doing this dance again.

the one ending i mean is the red one. why give us only the right answer out of indoctrination but if you play longer you get 2 more wrong options? so you get punished for playing the whole game not just running through it?

most of you didnt come to any conclusion, especially the fanatic ones. a few bright ones came up with the indoctrination theory, and the rest of you just followed. no offense, i know some of you are going to be pissed at me again for saying that, but thats just how stuff works. people are followers. and if you count the humm or tali saying "i feel like we are being watched" as coming to the same conclusion, you should really skip applying to detective school. also just to clarify, the followers are also the ones im going to say in you face to.

oh, and you said nothing about bioware giving us an unfinished game. wouldnt that be stupid on their part? wouldnt the fans go even more insane? oh, and i also find it quite pretentious and offensive of you to say they did. so i guess, you are the trolls here, not believing bioware gave us a full game, but instead saying:

"yes bioware, the ending is so bad, we know you didnt mean it, and we know you will give us the real ending later. we know that, cause we know you better than you do yourself."

Calling people followers, and essentially calling people who didn't come up with IT idiots, then saying "no offense" doesn't take away what you said. 

There are very few original thoughts in the this world.  (That's true).  But not believing in IT does not make you better than us just because you disagree and aren't a follower like we are. 

[Rifneno]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Wow, this is ... quite speculative. This is interesting.

There are sooooooo....ooooo many little "easter-eggs" pointing towards IT all throughout the game. But only hints, no real important dialogs about it. They were probably among the most difficult to come up writers and designers.
What a wasted amount of ressources that would be if IT were to be wrong.

Some of the hints are extremely strong.  Hercules strong.  Superman strong.  Garrus Vakarian strong!  But yeah.  Anyway, it's long been theorized that the Citadel may have some indoctrination aura.  Not a "serve teh precious!" like the hardcore indoctrination we're used to, but a more pacifying effect and quite possibly dissuades organics within not to believe in the Reapers.  Which would make a lot of sense considering ME1 & 2.

I think the place pretty much HAS to have some minor coercion effect to it.  Otherwise things wouldn't go according to plan for the Reapers.  A lot of species would have this "common sense" thing and realize there's probably a reason this awesome place is abandoned except for mindless caretakers.  Speaking of which, there's also some organic species who would find the keepers quite delicious looking.  So I'm sure that the Citadel has some minor degree of indoctrination even if just to make victims follow the rules.

[Vahilor]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

(i just dropped the mic like one of those hip hop guys.)

...and the crowd just laughs.

makes no sense if there is the possibility of only one ending. Thats what the extended edition should help with by adding "clarity and closure"

It's not "way to difficult" if all of us here came to the same conclusion. You think it would be easy overcoming reaper indoc? C'MON!!!

i cant believe im doing this dance again.

the one ending i mean is the red one. why give us only the right answer out of indoctrination but if you play longer you get 2 more wrong options? so you get punished for playing the whole game not just running through it?

most of you didnt come to any conclusion, especially the fanatic ones. a few bright ones came up with the indoctrination theory, and the rest of you just followed. no offense, i know some of you are going to be pissed at me again for saying that, but thats just how stuff works. people are followers. and if you count the humm or tali saying "i feel like we are being watched" as coming to the same conclusion, you should really skip applying to detective school. also just to clarify, the followers are also the ones im going to say in you face to.

oh, and you said nothing about bioware giving us an unfinished game. wouldnt that be stupid on their part? wouldnt the fans go even more insane? oh, and i also find it quite pretentious and offensive of you to say they did. so i guess, you are the trolls here, not believing bioware gave us a full game, but instead saying:

"yes bioware, the ending is so bad, we know you didnt mean it, and we know you will give us the real ending later. we know that, cause we know you better than you do yourself."

Calling people followers, and essentially calling people who didn't come up with IT idiots, then saying "no offense" doesn't take away what you said. 

There are very few original thoughts in the this world.  (That's true).  But not believing in IT does not make you better than us just because you disagree and aren't a follower like we are. 

The worst thing is even he seems not to have read which endings could be possible with IDT and that the EMS still matter...

[khyvari]

Back to the references about James and Tali feeling like they are being watched...There is a point in ME3 where you go and talk to Tali and she is in engineering, not at her old station but in front of the drive core, the camera pans back, all the way to the top of the drive and "looks" down through the cables, like someone is watching from above while you talk to Tali. It is very creepy. I seem to remember the camera panning back at other points as well but this was the most distinctive.

[Arian Dynas]

balance5050 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Aethgeir wrote...

  You don't release a game's proper ending as a DLC module. IT is essentially just damage control for the existing ending.  If damage control is even necessary, than the ending needs to be fixed or changed.

Why not?

I'm not saying it's a good idea.  But why can't that be Bioware's idea? 

They knew from the start that the ending - as it stands - would be very polarizes and heavily discussed. 

Well, what do we have going on?  Alot of polarization and discussion.  I don't think they imagined how heated it would get, but that happens too. 

I think it would be one heck of a plot twist if IT were true.  And you really couldn't do it any other way than they're doing it now. 

Play the game, play the ending, go WTF during the credits and then suddenly you wake up?  I could see that, but at the same time I don't think even having to sit through the entire credits gives you enough time to digest the ending and everything.  The only way a twist like IT would work is if you give people time to play the game, digest, discuss, etc, then release the "The Truth."  

The Truth got debunked. They also didn't start work on the extended cut until after ME3 was finished according to Gamble. They never denied anything but the name, so the idea still has merit.

This means one of four things;  Bioware did plan it, but for long down the road, fan outcry caused them to jump it up the list ASAP when they hadn't even gotten past the planning stage, They had the idea planned but never expected to have to make it clear and the EC came as a complete suprise, they had the plan to do it in an expansion pack, but were forced to made the EC to keep people happy and interested until the expansion comes out or they had an expansion pack planned but it's been cancelled (like DA2's expansion) in favor of getting DLC out now to keep people involved.

Acually part of "the truth" came true, the multiplayer part, so it wasn't completely debunked

Yeah, I did the research, the Multiplayer stuff was leaked on it's own on facebook, via Reddit, then the same image from facebook was attached to text detailing "The Truth" the next day (March 14th) on 4chan. It's a troll I'm sad to say. Too bad, seeing more Protheans would have been cool, especially seeing the Collectors again.

[Ravel1992]

Rifneno wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Wow, this is ... quite speculative. This is interesting.

There are sooooooo....ooooo many little "easter-eggs" pointing towards IT all throughout the game. But only hints, no real important dialogs about it. They were probably among the most difficult to come up writers and designers.
What a wasted amount of ressources that would be if IT were to be wrong.

Some of the hints are extremely strong.  Hercules strong.  Superman strong.  Garrus Vakarian strong!  But yeah.  Anyway, it's long been theorized that the Citadel may have some indoctrination aura.  Not a "serve teh precious!" like the hardcore indoctrination we're used to, but a more pacifying effect and quite possibly dissuades organics within not to believe in the Reapers.  Which would make a lot of sense considering ME1 & 2.

I think the place pretty much HAS to have some minor coercion effect to it.  Otherwise things wouldn't go according to plan for the Reapers.  A lot of species would have this "common sense" thing and realize there's probably a reason this awesome place is abandoned except for mindless caretakers.  Speaking of which, there's also some organic species who would find the keepers quite delicious looking.  So I'm sure that the Citadel has some minor degree of indoctrination even if just to make victims follow the rules.

Nothing can be that strong!

[Kyzee]

 Oh. My. GOD!!!!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEBK3ZUn0c4

ENOUGH!!

IDT is not a freaking pissing contest, people! This forum isn't about who's right, who's wrong, who gets to rub in the other's face, or any other piece of petty, immature garbage!

How many times does this have to be said?! You can disagree over whether IDT is true and NOT resort to insults, veiled or direct! Just act like adults and treat each other with respect! It's. Not. That. Hard!

No Thresher M'Aaaaaw this time. I'm tired of this crap. Calm down, get some perspective, and talk like civilized people.

Modifié par Kyzee, 12 avril 2012 - 09:51 .

[waldstr18]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

waldstr18 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

(i just dropped the mic like one of those hip hop guys.)

...and the crowd just laughs.

makes no sense if there is the possibility of only one ending. Thats what the extended edition should help with by adding "clarity and closure"

It's not "way to difficult" if all of us here came to the same conclusion. You think it would be easy overcoming reaper indoc? C'MON!!!

i cant believe im doing this dance again.

the one ending i mean is the red one. why give us only the right answer out of indoctrination but if you play longer you get 2 more wrong options? so you get punished for playing the whole game not just running through it?

most of you didnt come to any conclusion, especially the fanatic ones. a few bright ones came up with the indoctrination theory, and the rest of you just followed. no offense, i know some of you are going to be pissed at me again for saying that, but thats just how stuff works. people are followers. and if you count the humm or tali saying "i feel like we are being watched" as coming to the same conclusion, you should really skip applying to detective school. also just to clarify, the followers are also the ones im going to say in you face to.

oh, and you said nothing about bioware giving us an unfinished game. wouldnt that be stupid on their part? wouldnt the fans go even more insane? oh, and i also find it quite pretentious and offensive of you to say they did. so i guess, you are the trolls here, not believing bioware gave us a full game, but instead saying:

"yes bioware, the ending is so bad, we know you didnt mean it, and we know you will give us the real ending later. we know that, cause we know you better than you do yourself."

Calling people followers, and essentially calling people who didn't come up with IT idiots, then saying "no offense" doesn't take away what you said. 

There are very few original thoughts in the this world.  (That's true).  But not believing in IT does not make you better than us just because you disagree and aren't a follower like we are. 

the not believing doesnt make me better than you. i thought about it long enough, and then came to the conclusion that the idt is wrong. if something makes me better than the blind followers then it would have to be that. but who says im better than any of you. if you thought about the indoctrination theory long enough and came to your own conclusion, i have nothing to charge you with except being wrong of course. but that i cant proof, so i just have to wait.

[pro5]

Something I noticed examining the Mac Walter's notes sheet on the ending from the Final Hours app, and I've not seen mentioned before.

In the part above the infamous "Lots of speculation from everyone", there seems to be a short list of themes intended for the ending. The first item on the list is "Brave New World + End of First Matrix".


Now, a few links and direct quotes from Wikipedia and Google finds. 
The bits outlined with red really caused me to go "hmmm..." for a minute.


Brave New World: wiki link

In 1999, the Modern Library ranked Brave New World fifth on its list of the 100 best English-language novels of the 20th century

One of the key themes of the novel (according to the SparkNotes Literature Study Guide) is "The Use of Technology to Control Society".

The Matrix: wiki link
Let's go back in time and try to recall how that movie ended:

Morpheus and Trinity use a telephone to exit the Matrix, but Neo is ambushed by Agent Smith. He stands his ground and defeats Smith, but flees when the Agent possesses another body. Meanwhile, in the real world "sentinel" machines converge on the Nebuchadnezzar. Upon reaching another exit, Neo is shot and killed by Agent Smith. Trinity, who is standing over Neo in the real world, whispers that the Oracle told her she would fall in love with the One. She kisses Neo and restores his life. Neo revives with new power to perceive and control the Matrix, and effortlessly destroys Agent Smith, before returning to the real world in time for the ship's EMP weapon to destroy the attacking sentinels.

The film ends with Neo back in the Matrix, making a telephone call promising that he will demonstrate to the people imprisoned in the Matrix that "anything is possible." He hangs up the phone and flies into the sky.

Modifié par pro5, 12 avril 2012 - 09:15 .

[Sire Styx]

Aethgeir wrote...
It’s clearly little more than a fan-fiction...

Oh God, here we go....

Aethgeir wrote...
This is a terrible idea.   attempt to cope with ME3’s disappointing ending.

Thanks for your opinion.

Aethgeir wrote...
Its proponents sound like religious fanatics or conspiracy buffs

:

Again, what a wonderful insight

Aethgeir wrote...
this idea comes with its own set of plot holes and inconsistencies.

And thanks for providing evidence for it in this post.

Aethgeir wrote...
The worst thing about it though, is that it validates the existing bad
ending while completely ignoring what actually makes bad in first place
Shepard’s mission still ultimately fails.

Shepard’s decisions still don’t matter.

The illusion of choice is still shattered.

Mass
Effect's greatest strength is still lost: Indoctrination theory doesn’t
make players want to replay the game anymore than the current ending
does.[/list]

Really? I thought that IT discounts the ending, meaning ending DLC that'll be released may allow you to continue the mission. So if IT is true, then you may be able to go on to finish your mission, the outcome of your choices are shown, and allows you to replay the game and get different ideas.
 

Aethgeir wrote...
The dropped ‘Dark Energy Plot’ has far more promise for improving the
ending than ‘indoctrination theory’ does and it requires only the
smallest changes to the existing ending.

And is that true? The dark energy plot, which was not really refered to at all in ME3, and which would require a lot more explanation than IT, is a better choice than IT?
And the dark energy plot is directly comparable to IT? Even though IT doesn't make an attempt to explain the reapers motives and that IT and the dark energy plot could actually work together?

Well thank you for your feedback.

[lex0r11]

So called it "unlikely" and not "wrong". One is a specualtion, the other is a proven fact.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Yeah, I always wondered how exactly the ending was similar to brave new world, because really, it isn't - not in the slightest. As for Matrix - yeah, that's definately something!

[Sire Styx]

Xd2delo wrote...

Couple quick thoughts (and apologies if this has already been mentioned before).

First thing is a bit subtle, certainly not strong evidence of anything, but does anyone else find it intriguing that there's several references to the fact (in conversations with Miranda) that no control chip was implanted in Shepard during the Lazarus Project?  That in fact that was a decision made by the Illusive Man personally?  Nothing particularly significant about that in and of itself, for purposes of IDT anyway, but of course, it does permit one interesting inference: that no control chip was necessary for the IM to control Shep.  If Shep was to be indoctrinated, then why bother with a chip?  It gives Shepard the illusion that he remains uncontrolled, helps convince him of IM's good will (for ME2 at least), and, more intriguingly, if indoctrination is part of the goal with Shepard anyway, is it possible that a control chip would have interfered with that?  I mean, suppose he WAS indoctrinated... is it possible that if a control chip was implanted, that might give forces opposing the Reapers a chance to break indoctrination?  Obviously, that's all wild speculation, but just thought I would raise the point.

Second, there was some discussion pages and pages ago about how Shep got indoctrinated, as in what was the specific vehicle for his indoctrination.  And of course, he's clearly been around plenty of Reaper artifacts and even inside a dead Reaper.  But here's a wild speculation; at the beginning of ME3, there's a scene where Anderson makes a big deal out of giving Shepard back his dogtags.  Which are also prominently featured in the "Breathe" scene.  And which Shepard carries around with him everywhere.  Which could account for why Vega comments on that humming noise when Shepard comes around...  As I say, purely wild speculation, just kinda fun to throw it out there. 

It summer yet?

I had an idea a while ago that mentioning the control chip in game wasn't simply to recap what was said in ME2. I mean, why would they mention it? It would just serve to confuse new players and old players already knew. I think it's so we know, for certain, that TIM isn't controlling Shep using a chip. It may also put the idea of mind control into new and old player's minds.

And that's interesting, about the dog tags. I don't think it's been confirmed the size what objects need to be to indoctrinate....

[Sire Styx]

I'm astounded at the hostility towards IT here like. Can we not just discuss this in peace? We wouldn't mind opponents coming in to provide an alternative view, but when you add nothing to the topic then you are just spoiling it for everyone.

I'd like a solid reason why anyone wants to come in here and spoil things. Why?

[Aethgeir]

Sire Styx wrote...


Really? I thought that IT discounts the ending, meaning ending DLC that'll be released may allow you to continue the mission. So if IT is true, then you may be able to go on to finish your mission, the outcome of your choices are shown, and allows you to replay the game and get different ideas.
 

Well thank you for your feedback.

I see, so BioWare releases an ending to the game. Than invents a way to 'discount that ending'. And then releases the REAL ending as DLC.  If that's the case, then they really screwed the pooch (and their customers) on this one, I think that's something we can all agree on.

[Agugaboo]

And remember Liara brings your old dog tags, well if you took that story arc. Personally, I'm a fan of theory B. Occham's razor is useful once in awhile..

[Arian Dynas]

pro5 wrote...

Something I noticed examining the Mac Walter's notes sheet on the ending from the Final Hours app, and I've not seen mentioned before.

In the part above the infamous "Lots of speculation from everyone", there seems to be a short list of themes intended for the ending. The first item on the list is "Brave New World + End of First Matrix".


Now, a few links and direct quotes from Wikipedia and Google finds. 
The bits outlined with red really caused me to go "hmmm..." for a minute.


Brave New World: wiki link

In 1999, the Modern Library ranked Brave New World fifth on its list of the 100 best English-language novels of the 20th century

One of the key themes of the novel (according to the SparkNotes Literature Study Guide) is "The Use of Technology to Control Society".

The Matrix: wiki link
Let's go back in time and try to recall how that movie ended:

Morpheus and Trinity use a telephone to exit the Matrix, but Neo is ambushed by Agent Smith. He stands his ground and defeats Smith, but flees when the Agent possesses another body. Meanwhile, in the real world "sentinel" machines converge on the Nebuchadnezzar. Upon reaching another exit, Neo is shot and killed by Agent Smith. Trinity, who is standing over Neo in the real world, whispers that the Oracle told her she would fall in love with the One. She kisses Neo and restores his life. Neo revives with new power to perceive and control the Matrix, and effortlessly destroys Agent Smith, before returning to the real world in time for the ship's EMP weapon to destroy the attacking sentinels.

The film ends with Neo back in the Matrix, making a telephone call promising that he will demonstrate to the people imprisoned in the Matrix that "anything is possible." He hangs up the phone and flies into the sky.

Great, mind telling me WHAT YOU ARE THINKING?  I am just seeing a few ideas from the Matrix and a book I have yet to read and am failing to see what you are implying they connect to the ending.

[Sire Styx]

Anyway, to diffuse tension, I've made ANOTHER comic lol, about the kid at the start of the game, and how odd it is that they can fly all over.

I think I've probably tried too hard to be funny this time, but I would appreciate it if you could look at it.

img716.imageshack.us/img716/3232/starta.png

[EpicTacoProject]

pro5 wrote...

Something I noticed examining the Mac Walter's notes sheet on the ending from the Final Hours app, and I've not seen mentioned before.

In the part above the infamous "Lots of speculation from everyone", there seems to be a short list of themes intended for the ending. The first item on the list is "Brave New World + End of First Matrix".


Now, a few links and direct quotes from Wikipedia and Google finds. 
The bits outlined with red really caused me to go "hmmm..." for a minute.


Brave New World: wiki link

In 1999, the Modern Library ranked Brave New World fifth on its list of the 100 best English-language novels of the 20th century

One of the key themes of the novel (according to the SparkNotes Literature Study Guide) is "The Use of Technology to Control Society".

The Matrix: wiki link
Let's go back in time and try to recall how that movie ended:

Morpheus and Trinity use a telephone to exit the Matrix, but Neo is ambushed by Agent Smith. He stands his ground and defeats Smith, but flees when the Agent possesses another body. Meanwhile, in the real world "sentinel" machines converge on the Nebuchadnezzar. Upon reaching another exit, Neo is shot and killed by Agent Smith. Trinity, who is standing over Neo in the real world, whispers that the Oracle told her she would fall in love with the One. She kisses Neo and restores his life. Neo revives with new power to perceive and control the Matrix, and effortlessly destroys Agent Smith, before returning to the real world in time for the ship's EMP weapon to destroy the attacking sentinels.

The film ends with Neo back in the Matrix, making a telephone call promising that he will demonstrate to the people imprisoned in the Matrix that "anything is possible." He hangs up the phone and flies into the sky.

Seriously, make a new topic for this, what a great find dude.

[Aethgeir]

Sire Styx wrote...

I'm astounded at the hostility towards IT here like. Can we not just discuss this in peace? We wouldn't mind opponents coming in to provide an alternative view, but when you add nothing to the topic then you are just spoiling it for everyone.

I'd like a solid reason why anyone wants to come in here and spoil things. Why?

We are all entitled to our opinions here. You're the one who condescendingly dismissed my comments, if anyone is stirring up hostility it's people like you.
You're right though, this forum has been conquered by trolls.  I'm unsubscribing as of now.

[Sire Styx]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Great, mind telling me WHAT YOU ARE THINKING?  I am just seeing a few ideas from the Matrix and a book I have yet to read and am failing to see what you are implying they connect to the ending.

Don't take it too literally, but I think it essentially means that ME3 has something to do with using technology to control people and something to do with virtual realities.

[Kyzee]

Sire Styx wrote...

Anyway, to diffuse tension, I've made ANOTHER comic lol, about the kid at the start of the game, and how odd it is that they can fly all over.

I think I've probably tried too hard to be funny this time, but I would appreciate it if you could look at it.

img716.imageshack.us/img716/3232/starta.png

::sigh:: Thank you, Styx. I needed that.

Here's my contribution, in the vein of all the "how strong is Garrus" comments.

[Arian Dynas]

Sire Styx wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Great, mind telling me WHAT YOU ARE THINKING?  I am just seeing a few ideas from the Matrix and a book I have yet to read and am failing to see what you are implying they connect to the ending.

Don't take it too literally, but I think it essentially means that ME3 has something to do with using technology to control people and something to do with virtual realities.

... I could get that much, and understand how The Matrix applies, the question of the old "is reality real" thing, but what does controlling people by technology have to do with it? Is it the implication that the Reapers who ARE technology are controlling Shepard?

[balance5050]

Sire Styx wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Great, mind telling me WHAT YOU ARE THINKING?  I am just seeing a few ideas from the Matrix and a book I have yet to read and am failing to see what you are implying they connect to the ending.

Don't take it too literally, but I think it essentially means that ME3 has something to do with using technology to control people and something to do with virtual realities.

This page was given to Geoff Keighly fairly early in the development cycle.

[Iconoclaste]

Kyzee wrote...

 Oh. My. GOD!!!!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEBK3ZUn0c4

ENOUGH!!

IDT is not a freaking pissing contest, people! This forum isn't about who's right, who's wrong, who gets to rub in the others face, or any other piece of petty, immature garbage!

How many times does this have to be said?! You can disagree over whether IDT is true and NOT resort to insults, veiled or direct! Just act like adults and treat each other with respect! It's. Not. That. Hard!

No Thresher M'Aaaaaw this time. I'm tired of this crap. Calm down, get some perspective, and talk like civilized people.

At least there's still hope.

I'll check back later on this thread to see if discussion is still trendy, or not.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 12 avril 2012 - 09:48 .