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[Sire Styx]

Aethgeir wrote...

Sire Styx wrote...

I'm astounded at the hostility towards IT here like. Can we not just discuss this in peace? We wouldn't mind opponents coming in to provide an alternative view, but when you add nothing to the topic then you are just spoiling it for everyone.

I'd like a solid reason why anyone wants to come in here and spoil things. Why?

We are all entitled to our opinions here. You're the one who condescendingly dismissed my comments, if anyone is stirring up hostility it's people like you.
You're right though, this forum has been conquered by trolls.  I'm unsubscribing as of now.

Edit: I've removed what I said. I suppose it could just go on to worsen the situation with trolls. I think we'd all rather keep this a bit calmer.

Modifié par Sire Styx, 12 avril 2012 - 09:59 .

[Dutchess]

The only argument I personally needed to believe in IT is that in ME1 Saren was a supporter of the synthesis option, and he was indoctrinated. And in ME3 you meet the control supporter: the Illusive Man, who is also most likely indoctrinated. It's not that hard actually. For me, everything fell into place as soon as I realized that. All the other, smaller and more subtle hints and clues are nice, but this simply screams in your face. This also invalidates the argument that only people who have played the DLC would have been able to pick up on what's going on near the end. You have already heard two of the options the Space kid offers you, and both times you've heard it from indoctrinated reaper slaves. I can't see how you can get around this.

[pro5]

Arian Dynas wrote...
Great, mind telling me WHAT YOU ARE THINKING?  I am just seeing a few ideas from the Matrix and a book I have yet to read and am failing to see what you are implying they connect to the ending.

I'm thinking it might be a hint from Walters on how to interpret the ending.

I don't claim this is any kind of proof of IT, if that's what you are asking - but it can be viewed as another clue in vein with all others collected in this thread.

[Iconoclaste]

If anyone coming here to aks any question that threatens IT's actual (unperfected, mind you) state is to be treated like "Trolls", then maybe the idea of "debating" this theme in a public forum is not the best one. Who "owns" this "thread", anyway?

See you in a few hours, when some people here get back on Earth.

[Sire Styx]

renjility wrote...

The only argument I personally needed to believe in IT is that in ME1 Saren was a supporter of the synthesis option, and he was indoctrinated. And in ME3 you meet the control supporter: the Illusive Man, who is also most likely indoctrinated. It's not that hard actually. For me, everything fell into place as soon as I realized that. All the other, smaller and more subtle hints and clues are nice, but this simply screams in your face. This also invalidates the argument that only people who have played the DLC would have been able to pick up on what's going on near the end. You have already heard two of the options the Space kid offers you, and both times you've heard it from indoctrinated reaper slaves. I can't see how you can get around this.

Yeah, there's 3 options and 2 of them were suggested by bad guys. I'd stay well clear of those!

And have you seen Shepard's eyes when you do control? They become like TIM. That's one of my favourite bits of IT. It just goes on to show you've became like him.

[balance5050]

A theme of " a brave new world" is overloading the senses with false information and half truths so that the masses don't know the truth.

Sounds like how then ending is filled with lies and half truth, also alludes to why Bioware's statements have been filled with lies and half truths.

[FlameChucks]

Being that i just recently finished Mass Effect 3 about two weeks ago, it's clear to me that something was definitely wrong with the way the entire game went down. For the most part, the entire experience was contained to a level which few games can measure up to. Looking at all of the details concerning the ending and the various moments in the game where details or hints of possible indoctrination were apparent, it is becoming more and more clear to me that this is a case of a team of writers who knew exactly what they were doing.

Let us assume for a second that this theory is in fact true. While many will argue that if this theory does hold water, it still does not make up for an ending to the trilogy. This is very true, many people were obviously expecting much more in the realm of closure, but the issue is that we are dealing with a studio who is known to have extremely intelligent people.

Personally for me, i can see no reason why this theory can't hold it's stake in being the true ending to the game. Please understand that I say game, not series. An ending to the series would quantify something that all people can enjoy. Granted, this is a game series that has spanned hundreds of hours over the last five years. We are the final stop and we were all hoping to find closure in the final game in the series.

I for one firmly believe that the intention was to bring closure to a theme regarding indoctrination and that the final battle for earth would continue on afterward. Assuming this is true, then there must have been some sort of time constraint to where they could not finish the entire game through on time and were forced to work on it afterward. I'm not saying this is the case, but then again, we are dealing with EA here. Last time i checked, Spore was also an early released product, even though Will Wright had said he still needed 2 years to allow the game proper completion. Another thing we are missing is that the development time between titles was cut a little bit shorter than the time between the previous installment.

It's all speculation, but if this was the true intention, then maybe the IDT can be the real deal.

[Dwailing]

Iconoclaste wrote...

If anyone coming here to aks any question that threatens IT's actual (unperfected, mind you) state is to be treated like "Trolls", then maybe the idea of "debating" this theme in a public forum is not the best one. Who "owns" this "thread", anyway?

See you in a few hours, when some people here get back on Earth.

See, problem is that people that oppose IT don't usually present any opposing evidence.  And when they ask questions, we frequently have answers that they ignore.  Hence, the moniker of "Trolls".

[Joroelcapo]

I love the Indoctrination Theory
It makes the game more deep.
But i will love that the dlc don´t clarify if it´s true or not . Letting the ambiguity going is the way that it works for me. Like a David Lynch thing...

[Dwailing]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Kyzee wrote...

 Oh. My. GOD!!!!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEBK3ZUn0c4

ENOUGH!!

IDT is not a freaking pissing contest, people! This forum isn't about who's right, who's wrong, who gets to rub in the others face, or any other piece of petty, immature garbage!

How many times does this have to be said?! You can disagree over whether IDT is true and NOT resort to insults, veiled or direct! Just act like adults and treat each other with respect! It's. Not. That. Hard!

No Thresher M'Aaaaaw this time. I'm tired of this crap. Calm down, get some perspective, and talk like civilized people.

At least there's still hope.

I'll check back later on this thread to see if discussion is still trendy, or not.

I agree with Kyzee.  We need to just CALM DOWN, and talk about this like civilized people.

[Rifneno]

khyvari wrote...

Back to the references about James and Tali feeling like they are being watched...There is a point in ME3 where you go and talk to Tali and she is in engineering, not at her old station but in front of the drive core, the camera pans back, all the way to the top of the drive and "looks" down through the cables, like someone is watching from above while you talk to Tali. It is very creepy. I seem to remember the camera panning back at other points as well but this was the most distinctive.

Wait. What? ... What the hell?! I don't even know what to say to this besides "What the hell?!"

Arian Dynas wrote...

Yeah, I did the research, the Multiplayer stuff was leaked on it's own on facebook, via Reddit, then the same image from facebook was attached to text detailing "The Truth" the next day (March 14th) on 4chan. It's a troll I'm sad to say. Too bad, seeing more Protheans would have been cool, especially seeing the Collectors again.

Well, even if it was a troll, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of the Collectors. After Javik, I don't really want anymore Protheans. Protheans are fascist scum. But the Collectors I think there's a reasonable chance we'll see again. First there's that codex (Miracle of Palaven) that specifically says that the Reapers had more Collectors. There's also the fact we see a TON of oculuses. Those are made from Collectors. It's possible they can use other organics too but we only know them for sure as Collector tech. They're even refered to in the model files as Collector fighters. I wouldn't mind seeing them again. Though I don't want to see another Praetorian, ever. Scions' role has largely been taken by ravagers I think.

Kyzee wrote...

ENOUGH!!

IDT is not a freaking pissing contest, people! This forum isn't about who's right, who's wrong, who gets to rub in the others face, or any other piece of petty, immature garbage!

How many times does this have to be said?! You can disagree over whether IDT is true and NOT resort to insults, veiled or direct! Just act like adults and treat each other with respect! It's. Not. That. Hard!

No Thresher M'Aaaaaw this time. I'm tired of this crap. Calm down, get some perspective, and talk like civilized people.

Yeah. Apologizes for my part in the debacle.

Aethgeir wrote...

I see, so BioWare releases an ending to the game. Than invents a way to 'discount that ending'. And then releases the REAL ending as DLC. If that's the case, then they really screwed the pooch (and their customers) on this one, I think that's something we can all agree on.

No, we can't. If you'd rather complain about semantics of releasing a game without the ending and then releasing the ending for free then that's your prerogative. I see it as an incredible plot twist by a company that took a financial risk to give its customers a shock ending in an interactive way that's never been done before.

We are all entitled to our opinions here. You're the one who condescendingly dismissed my comments, if anyone is stirring up hostility it's people like you.

Bull****. Your first post called us religious fanatics and conspiracy nuts.

Dwailing wrote...

See, problem is that people that oppose IT don't usually present any opposing evidence. And when they ask questions, we frequently have answers that they ignore. Hence, the moniker of "Trolls".

Don't forget the "in denial" crap that's almost to meme status.

[darkiddd]

Joroelcapo wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory
It makes the game more deep.
But i will love that the dlc don´t clarify if it´s true or not . Letting the ambiguity going is the way that it works for me. Like a David Lynch thing...

No... just... no. Many people like me like the IT because it explains the endings and they actually make sense from that perspective. But people has always said that the extended cut should be about what happens on reality after you wake up. CLOSURE. The endings lacked this, and if Bioware simply makes an extended cut that clarifies without a doubt shepard was dreaming and there's no real end to the battle then the ending will be even worse than the one we have now.

[Rifneno]

darkiddd wrote...

Joroelcapo wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory
It makes the game more deep.
But i will love that the dlc don´t clarify if it´s true or not . Letting the ambiguity going is the way that it works for me. Like a David Lynch thing...

No... just... no. Many people like me like the IT because it explains the endings and they actually make sense from that perspective. But people has always said that the extended cut should be about what happens on reality after you wake up. CLOSURE. The endings lacked this, and if Bioware simply makes an extended cut that clarifies without a doubt shepard was dreaming and there's no real end to the battle then the ending will be even worse than the one we have now.

Agreed 100%.  If I wanted to imagine my own ending, I'd write a goddamn fanfic.  I'm not doing that, I'm playing the CONCLUSION to the series.  I want to see the CONCLUSION.  I want to see EC starting with Shepard waking up and ending with Harbinger in pieces.

[GBGriffin]

 

Dwailing wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


It's true guys, the friendly troll GBGriffin taught us that you summon trolls by mentioning their name. So lets just ignore now shall we?

You know, I kind of miss GB.  I think it's kind of weird that he hasn't appeared given all the times that we have said his name.

Oh, you 

I would hope that posters in this thread might be able to concede that there is a certain...tendency to label people who disagree with the theory as trolls. Disagreeing with a theory does not automatically equal trolling; I think that was a distinction Stanley Woo mentioned that I tend to agree with, and it was how I defended many of my earlier arguments.

Now, obviously, coming in the thread and simply posting a one-line "this theory is stupid and u r dum" would be trolling. I haven't had time to catch up on the past 2 hours of posting (even volus's need naps), but I would hope you would see the frustration in trying to argue against this theory at length because, in all honesty, you cannot prove it wrong based on what we have, and that isn't a good thing. At best, all you can do to argue against the theory is provide alternate explanations for the same evidence, which can immediately (and has been) dismissed as just "not logical" or countered with more evidence that can also be explained with an alternate explanation.

So, given that, it can be understandably frustrating when trying to argue against the IT by typing out a post only to be met with "gtfo troll", but at this point, I personally don't feel it's necessary. I've seen a rapid decline in "proof" threads popping up outside of this thread, which is what personally annoyed me, and the discussion seems relatively contained here, so the only real reason I could see to come in and try to debate would be to intentionally ****** off people (i.e. "troll") or actually try and debate, possibly out of trying to make sense of it all. I would hope it would be obvious enough to make the distinction, since many of the posters here have redeemed my faith in the theorists by being generally civil 

Like I said, I'm fine just swinging by for the occasional summon (I do need sleep, though; it's been a hell of a week), but that's generally where I'm at in terms of debating. There really isn't a need to press the issue against theorists who believe just as there isn't a need for theorists who believe to press the issue on others.

So, yes, stay civil on both sides, and all of us might just make it out of this with our honor intact 

Modifié par GBGriffin, 12 avril 2012 - 10:14 .

[lex0r11]

Negativity can't stop me.

[Rifneno]

Gotten quiet. So... you know that engineer on the Citadel trying to get a transfer to fighting Reapers instead of Cerberus because she's afraid her little brother unwittingly wound up with Cerberus? 'kay. Now remember the indoctrination devices side-mission at the start of the game that you get right when you gain access to control the Normandy? Remember the journals in there that were written by some poor sap before and after Cerberus stole his free will? Names match. That is--well, was her brother.

Damnit, why are all the little details hidden in this game sad ones?!

[Sire Styx]

Rifneno wrote...

Gotten quiet. So... you know that engineer on the Citadel trying to get a transfer to fighting Reapers instead of Cerberus because she's afraid her little brother unwittingly wound up with Cerberus? 'kay. Now remember the indoctrination devices side-mission at the start of the game that you get right when you gain access to control the Normandy? Remember the journals in there that were written by some poor sap before and after Cerberus stole his free will? Names match. That is--well, was her brother.

Damnit, why are all the little details hidden in this game sad ones?!

Aww
But it's things like this make me sure that all these clues aren't just coincidences.

[Rifneno]

I know, right? I'm afraid if I go down to engineering and pick up a floor panel I'll find Bambi's dead mother. What happened to the whole "ME3 will have a lighter tone" thing?!

[Nauks]

Sire Styx wrote...

Anyway, to diffuse tension, I've made ANOTHER comic lol, about the kid at the start of the game, and how odd it is that they can fly all over.

I think I've probably tried too hard to be funny this time, but I would appreciate it if you could look at it.

img716.imageshack.us/img716/3232/starta.png

Heh  "That's creepy Shepard" is right.
Thanks for the chuckles, there's too much negativity tonight.

[Arian Dynas]

Joroelcapo wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory 
It makes the game more deep.
But i will love that the dlc don´t clarify if it´s true or not . Letting the ambiguity going is the way that it works for me. Like a David Lynch thing...

...

 I will raep you...

Rifneno wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Yeah, I did the research, the Multiplayer stuff was leaked on it's own on facebook, via Reddit, then the same image from facebook was attached to text detailing "The Truth" the next day (March 14th) on 4chan. It's a troll I'm sad to say. Too bad, seeing more Protheans would have been cool, especially seeing the Collectors again.

Well, even if it was a troll, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of the Collectors. After Javik, I don't really want anymore Protheans. Protheans are fascist scum. But the Collectors I think there's a reasonable chance we'll see again. First there's that codex (Miracle of Palaven) that specifically says that the Reapers had more Collectors. There's also the fact we see a TON of oculuses. Those are made from Collectors. It's possible they can use other organics too but we only know them for sure as Collector tech. They're even refered to in the model files as Collector fighters. I wouldn't mind seeing them again. Though I don't want to see another Praetorian, ever. Scions' role has largely been taken by ravagers I think.


.

Dude, judging a species by one man. Racist much? I would like to see some Prothean scientist/philosophers, as in the people Liara WANTS to see. Total agreement on Collectors though
 
Personally, I liked the Preatorians, they scared the ****** out of me, fighting one the first time on Horizon first time playing through ME2 was one of the few times a game could get my adrenaline pumping.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 12 avril 2012 - 10:53 .

[dubdevo]

Hi guys! Ive read a few posts in this thread, and oh boy its gotten huge! When I started reading about the IT, I realized there was a lot about the game I really didn't know or catch while playing. Now I don't know if you guys have pointed this out yet or not, but I read the comics with the Illusive Man story. Idk if somebody can explain or think of some connections. I personally don't know what think, but throughout the game I thought IT was coming all along. But there are so many little details that are kind of hard to recount.

[Gernbuster]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Joroelcapo wrote...

I love the Indoctrination Theory 
It makes the game more deep.
But i will love that the dlc don´t clarify if it´s true or not . Letting the ambiguity going is the way that it works for me. Like a David Lynch thing...

...

 I will raep you...

Rifneno wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Yeah, I did the research, the Multiplayer stuff was leaked on it's own on facebook, via Reddit, then the same image from facebook was attached to text detailing "The Truth" the next day (March 14th) on 4chan. It's a troll I'm sad to say. Too bad, seeing more Protheans would have been cool, especially seeing the Collectors again.

Well, even if it was a troll, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of the Collectors. After Javik, I don't really want anymore Protheans. Protheans are fascist scum. But the Collectors I think there's a reasonable chance we'll see again. First there's that codex (Miracle of Palaven) that specifically says that the Reapers had more Collectors. There's also the fact we see a TON of oculuses. Those are made from Collectors. It's possible they can use other organics too but we only know them for sure as Collector tech. They're even refered to in the model files as Collector fighters. I wouldn't mind seeing them again. Though I don't want to see another Praetorian, ever. Scions' role has largely been taken by ravagers I think.


.

Dude, judging a species by one man. Racist much? I would like to see some Prothean scientist/philosophers, as in the people Liara WANTS to see. Total agreement on Collectors though
 
Personally, I liked the Preatorians, they scared the ****** out of me, fighting one the first time on Horizon first time playing through ME2 was one of the few times a game could get my adrenaline pumping.

The Protheans did something great. Without them Shep would still have been a soldier under Captain Andersons control when the Reapers arrive out of nowhere.
Their culture is not ours but who give us the right to define what it right or wrong?
We are even unable to unit humans morality and think ours is the one for the whole galaxie?
And additionaly without those people(Cerberus, Protheans, etc ) The galaxie would have been lost.

PS: My personal oppinion about TIM is, that he knew he will fall under Reaper control and brought back Shep WITHOUT a control chip to stop him and the Reapers one day.
You can hate me or not, but the character TIM is a hero to me, who sacrificed himself and let darkness into his heart to stop the Reapers. He doesn't trust aliens and prefers humans, but he is not racist bastard with genocidal phantasies at all. He is using the racist humans to succeed.

[Rifneno]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Dude, judging a species by one man. Racist much? I would like to see some Prothean scientist/philosophers, as in the people Liara WANTS to see. Total agreement on Collectors though

Personally, I liked the Preatorians, they scared the ****** out of me, fighting one the first time on Horizon first time playing through ME2 was one of the few times a game could get my adrenaline pumping.

Uhh, no. I'm not judging a race, I'm judging a society. A society that enslaved others and executed people for playing a game of cards.

Praetorians on high difficulty were the opposite of fun. The one on the Collector Ship is the only time I always used the Cain. A Praetorian is bad enough, but a Praetorian with ground support? *shudder*

[liggy002]

Here are my thoughts on a possible solution for the IT people:


http://social.biowar.../index/11339719

Look through the thread and you will see how immature people are. They pass it off as desperation. It's like they're trying to fix square blocks into a round hole.

Modifié par liggy002, 12 avril 2012 - 11:38 .

[IronSabbath88]

Hey fellow IT believers, I created something I think you'll all enjoy.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7241/

Send a request to join and discuss away! I've set everything to Group members only so we'll be (hopefully) troll free.